AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Overread]

Just now, TalesOfSigmar said:

Do we know if there are any allies for the army?

Maybe a big block of skellies if possible for some numbers is worthwhile.

The youtube videos have shown the last page, Ossiarchs have no allies at all. 

However provided you don't take Nagash and/or The Mortatch of Sacrament you can take mercenaries (if you take either of those heroes though you cannot take mercenaries - though honestly if you take Nagash anyway you've already tied up half of most armies into a single model). 

 

[Nasnad]

1 minute ago, TalesOfSigmar said:

Do we know if there are any allies for the army?

Maybe a big block of skellies if possible for some numbers is worthwhile.

They have no allies

[Panzer]

I'm definitely going with spears for my 20+ model units. I think the added range is well worth it and I like polearms. What I'm still wondering is why would I ever want to give the cavalry spears. I don't see myself ever fielding them in such numbers where the added range would actually matter.

[Spears]

2 minutes ago, Panzer said:

I'm definitely going with spears for my 20+ model units. I think the added range is well worth it and I like polearms. What I'm still wondering is why would I ever want to give the cavalry spears. I don't see myself ever fielding them in such numbers where the added range would actually matter.

The spears on the cav explode on 5+ rather than 6+ if you charged.

[Panzer]

2 minutes ago, Spears said:

The spears on the cav explode on 5+ rather than 6+ if you charged.

Oh I didn't notice that. Then I think I'll go with spears on those too.  

 

EDIT: Also relevant username.  

Edited October 28, 2019 by Panzer

[Sception]

13 minutes ago, Nasnad said:

They have no allies

Yeah, this is pretty much confirmed.  Though personally I'm quite baffled by it - the allies system was and is a good way to support players starting new armies by letting them splash a couple units into their current armies to get a foot in the door.  This is in part why the Stormcasts can ally in some way or other with just about any Order faction - so it's weird and kind of frustrating that OBR, presented in some ways as a sort of Death Alliance counterpart to the Stormcast, can't ally with anything.

Heck, of all the Grand Alliances, Death should be the most closely knit and easiest to mix and combine.  "Nagash is all, and all are one in Nagash," right?

My long term vision for what I've wanted to see from Death in AoS has long included "expansion of Deathlords into a proper faction by expanding on Morghasts, introducing a smaller flightless version as line troops that stand as equals and opposites to Sigmar's Stormcasts," and OBR are almost exactly what I meant by that.  Except in my vision, the OBR would have been the center of the grand alliance and everything else would have radiated out around them, all the current Mortarch legions would have their model range to OBR +.  Legion of Grief would have been OBR+Nighthaunt, Legion of necropolis would have been OBR+Deathrattle, Legion of Blood would have been OBR+Soulblight, etc etc.

Instead we're seeing OBR as the most isolated, cut off faction in all of Death, even more so than the half-living Flesh Eater Courts, and while I'm loving the faction in and of themselves, that lack of integration with the Grand Alliance at large is a strange and frustration design decision to me.

 

Maybe the designers are just gunshy about mixed death armies after how the incorporation of Grimghasts into Legions temporarily supercharged Nagash lists?

Edited October 28, 2019 by Sception

[JackStreicher]

Maybe you can ally them into a LoN army, though you could not use their command abilities then?

[Nasnad]

Think the reason they don't have any allies is because of the RD point system, and they didn't want to think about that complexity.

The question still stands about how they work in a GA:death army. If you can still use command points on the abilities, or you just can't use any OBR abilities

[Panzer]

1 minute ago, Sception said:

Yeah, this is pretty much confirmed.  Though personally I'm quite baffled by it - the allies system was and is a good way to support players starting new armies by letting them splashing a couple units into their current armies to get a foot in the door.  This is in part why the Stormcasts can ally in some way or other with just about any Order faction - so it's weird and kind of frustrating that OBR, presented in some ways as a sort of Death Alliance counterpart to the Stormcast can't ally with anything.

Heck, of all the Grand Alliances, Death should be the most closely knit and easiest to mix and combine.  "Nagash is all, and all are one in Nagash," right?

My long term vision for what I've wanted to see from Death in AoS has long included "expansion of Deathlords into a proper faction by expanding on Morghasts, introducing a smaller flightless version as line troops that stand as equals and opposites to Sigmar's Stormcasts," and OBR are almost exactly what I meant by that.  Except in my vision, the OBR would have been the center of the grand alliance and everything else would have radiated out around them, all the current Mortarch legions would have their model range to OBR +.  Legion of Grief would have been OBR+Nighthaunt, Legion of necropolis would have been OBR+Deathrattle, Legion of Blood would have been OBR+Soulblight, etc etc.

Instead we're seeing OBR as the most isolated, cut off faction in all of Death, even more so than the half-living Flesh Eater Courts, and while I'm loving the faction in and of themselves, that lack of integration with the Grand Alliance at large is a strange and frustration design decision to me.

 

Maybe the designers are just gunshy about mixed death armies after how the incorporation of Grimghasts into Legions temporarily supercharged Nagash lists?

Well to be fair, while all the Death armies follow Nagashs will, the OBR don't really fight alongside with say Nighthaunts. They are their own separate structure that 'visits' the cities of the living regularly to collect their tithe and in the meantime build their own cities and such, while others like Nighthaunts do their own thing and raid the mortal realms for souls, or like Vampires who kinda do all kinds of stuff but mostly care about their own territory, or FEC who don't even know they are undead so have no reason to ally with OBR (and potentially even think the OBR will come for their kingdom too eventually).

So in short, they do fight on the same side but only actually fight together if ordered by Nagash. That would fit more for Legions of Nagash rather than regular allies I'd say.

[Sception]

the fact that you'd be limited to the usual dribble of a single CP a turn plus maybe 1 or 2 extra at the start of the game would already be limitation enough on their command abilities in other armies, I'd think.  Meanwhile, the fact that RD points can only be used for command abilities on OBR battlescrolls, and none of the OBR units have the summonable keyword, means I don't think you'd have to worry about any balance problems from non-OBR death units & heroes allying into OBR.  I just don't see a mechanical reason to ban allies here.  If anything, there should be less mechanical risk to allowing OBR to ally than near about any other factions in death.

[Overread]

I'm thinking the reason they don't have allies is because of how they function and by shutting down allies it helps stop you taking a load of cheap zombies or ghouls to give the army a viable 400 block faster moving chaff block. Mercenaries already come with  a "tax" to taking them and are more limited in what is on offer so they tend to be a bit more "elite" than general chaff units. 

 

I think its a means toward making reapers work internally whilst costing them allies. IT can work well for a varied self-contained army. 

[Sception]

I don't want to derail the discussion of OBR as they are, on their own, so I'll just say that I don't really see any balance problems here apart from *maybe* allowing the Crawler to ally into other Death armies, and even then I'm skeptical.

But whatever, strange as it may be to me it is what it is.

[Scurvydog]

12 hours ago, Overread said:

I know its early, but I have to ask; is this madness:

Arch-Kavalos 220
Liege Kavalos 200

15 Deathriders 480 
15 Deathriders 480
5 Deathriders 180

Mortek Crawler 200
Gothizzar Harverster 200

Total 1960 


Keeping in mind that it doesn't leave room for a battalion which might be essential. Though I would guess dropping the 3rd deathriders into a mortek guard would free up enough points for a battalion to be added? One could also double up on either the Crawler or Gothizzar for either double the ranged support or, more likely, double the close combat and resurrection support. 

A slightly more practical/less skew list might be

Arch-Kavalos 220
Liege Kavalos 200

15 Deathriders 480 
10 Deathriders 360
10 Mortek Guard 130

Mortek Crawler 200
Gothizzar Harverster 200

Total 1790 

Basically dropping a few Deathriders to free up a few hundred points for adding more support, which could even be Morghasts or Stalkers/Guard. 

So you want to run Praetorians for the Arch Kavalos? That sounds like a really really bad idea. 

If you want advice on the "best" way to run this list, I think Petrifex elites is the best, and with the Kavalos battalion.

But why not Stalliarch lords? because the battalion already allows you to retreat and charge, for no cost. The battalion also gives you more discipline points, 1 free use of the riders ability and an artifact! And this is important and why you want 2 normal lieges, so you can dump the ignore wound artifact on 1 and take the Helm of the ordianed on the other for +1 to hit 12" bubble! 

This effectively gives you 1-2 more discipline points per turn, it gives you +1 to hit bubble, running petrifex makes them all +1 save and you can then use all those extra discipline points on the petrifex command ability, to get an extra rend on your attacks. This will deal a tremedous amount of additional damage compared to anything else and be far sturdier with 3+ saves too.

The arch kavalos and  Vokmortian are not really worth the poor legion in my opinion, such a shame they are locked to the praetorians. The reroll 1 to wound thing and slightly better spear is so little, and you cant give him artefacts or traits. Vokmortian is mostly decent due to the -1 to get dispelled, but I don't see that as being better than the mason, who at 40 points less got a more useful spell and ability to possibly cast it even more times.

I liked stalliarch lords right until I saw the battalion, which does the most important part regarding retrait and charge for free, and makes it far better to go petrifex by a huge margin.

[Overread]

@Skelebags In fairness my list is more "what do I like the look of that fits into 2K points". So I've not looked too closely at the interactions specific within the force. Though yes I do see your point that the harvester is a hard hitter but not as good with resurrection for the cavalry. 

@Scurvydog interesting points regarding the named lead lord. In one way its odd that GW is underpowering the named options, in another its perhaps a good thing that they are not making them so powerful that they become auto includes (or so powerful and high in points that they become very niche like Nagash).

[Emissary]

1 hour ago, TalesOfSigmar said:

Do we know if there are any allies for the army?

Maybe a big block of skellies if possible for some numbers is worthwhile.

No allies

[Spears]

Without the book how does the command point cost of mercenarys actually effect bonereapers? 

[Voyeur]

1 hour ago, Scurvydog said:

So you want to run Praetorians for the Arch Kavalos? That sounds like a really really bad idea. 

If you want advice on the "best" way to run this list, I think Petrifex elites is the best, and with the Kavalos battalion.

But why not Stalliarch lords? because the battalion already allows you to retreat and charge, for no cost. The battalion also gives you more discipline points, 1 free use of the riders ability and an artifact! And this is important and why you want 2 normal lieges, so you can dump the ignore wound artifact on 1 and take the Helm of the ordianed on the other for +1 to hit 12" bubble! 

This effectively gives you 1-2 more discipline points per turn, it gives you +1 to hit bubble, running petrifex makes them all +1 save and you can then use all those extra discipline points on the petrifex command ability, to get an extra rend on your attacks. This will deal a tremedous amount of additional damage compared to anything else and be far sturdier with 3+ saves too.

The arch kavalos and  Vokmortian are not really worth the poor legion in my opinion, such a shame they are locked to the praetorians. The reroll 1 to wound thing and slightly better spear is so little, and you cant give him artefacts or traits. Vokmortian is mostly decent due to the -1 to get dispelled, but I don't see that as being better than the mason, who at 40 points less got a more useful spell and ability to possibly cast it even more times.

I liked stalliarch lords right until I saw the battalion, which does the most important part regarding retrait and charge for free, and makes it far better to go petrifex by a huge margin.

Are the named charactors locked to the legions? from the look of the wording you can bring them in the other legions they just dont get the keywords. so you could bring the arch kavalos in petrifex he just wouldnt benefit from the save/rend ability personally.

[Arcian]

17 minutes ago, Voyeur said:

Are the named charactors locked to the legions? from the look of the wording you can bring them in the other legions they just dont get the keywords. so you could bring the arch kavalos in petrifex he just wouldnt benefit from the save/rend ability personally.

That's my understanding of how it works too. Rather unfortunate

[GeneralZero]

No ally is kinda bummer.

Taking the opposite way of asking: is there a death army that can take OBR ally?

I am wanting so much the catapult in my skeletons army.

[Voyeur]

4 minutes ago, Arcian said:

That's my understanding of how it works too. Rather unfortunate

Checked the video again. "If a model already has an legion keyword on its warscroll it cant gain another. This does not prevent you from including the unit in your army" Looks like it will be fine to use them in the others.

[Panzer]

Yeah you can use the named characters in any legion just fine. They just won't benefit from being in a different legion than their own.

[Nasnad]

trying to make a 1000 point meeting engagement list, this is my first try at a list:

Petrifex Elite

Bone Shaper with Empower Naditite Weapons  130

Soul Reaper with Arcane Command or Drain Vitality  120

20xMortek Guard  260

20xMortek Guard  260

Gothizzar Harvester or Necropolis Stalkers 200

Bone-tithe Shrieker  30

1000 point total.

 

any thoughts or suggestions?

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Nasnad

[Scurvydog]

1 hour ago, Voyeur said:

Are the named charactors locked to the legions? from the look of the wording you can bring them in the other legions they just dont get the keywords. so you could bring the arch kavalos in petrifex he just wouldnt benefit from the save/rend ability personally.

You can bring them, but for example the arch cavalos command ability only works on praetorians. So if you bring him in a petrifex elite army, you pay 20 more points to get a slightly better weapon (2" reach and +1 dmg on charge), you get 2" more move and he has reroll 1 to wound against non death. Compared to a regular liege, who will cost 20 points less, but have the +1 save and the ability to use an artifact.

As I mentioned if you have a battalion to grab another artefact, then getting that Helm of the Ordained giving 12" radious of +1 to hit for bonereapers is a nice prospect and basically ends up with Katakros command benefits in a smaller bubble (+1 save petrifex, +1 hit helm bubble). This combo being possible makes it far less likely I will play praetorians and use Katakros sadly, although I will get the model due to the rule of cool.

[Arcian]

39 minutes ago, Nasnad said:

trying to make a 1000 point meeting engagement list, this is my first try at a list:

Petrifex Elite

Bone Shaper with Empower Naditite Weapons  130

Soul Reaper with Arcane Command or Drain Vitality  120

20xMortek Guard  260

20xMortek Guard  260

Gothizzar Harvester or Necropolis Stalkers 200

Bone-tithe Shrieker  30

1000 point total.

 

any thoughts or suggestions?

 

Are you feeling swords, or spears for the mortek in units of 20?

[Hoseman]

So here we go on the train. I ordered the bones box so my army will be:

Arkhan - 360

Vokmortian - 180

Mortek Guard 10 - 130

Stalkers - 200

Morghast - 210.

This is what i have, 1080 points so to finish I will add:

Zandtos.

2x 5 Deathriders

Harvester

Boneshaper.

At last it goes 1990points and I like a lot the Riders.

Maybe later I will take Katacros, I have to study it better. 

And for the Morghast and Stalkers wich is de better build?? Last posts said that Immortis guard is better than Stalkers?? Love the models too, i'm sad they are not battleline

Edited October 28, 2019 by Hoseman