AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Overread]

Eh they've got 2 full weeks to tease stuff to us. Plus they want to leave some details in the book and likely balance what they tease to what's coming out now that they are into an actual release window. 
So I'd wager we won't see a huge number of teases on things that aren't being pre-ordered this weekend 

[relic456]

Hot dang, that's some neat rules we just saw. Being able to keep your 6+ FNP without being locked to your heroes is a big deal isn't it? The Relentless Discipline points seem cool, though I'd want to know more about how they are generated before making any judgment calls. And it looks like the army (except the cavalry maybe) move pretty slow, 4" on the battleline troops. The Necropolis Stalkers choice of re-rolls ability seems really strong, taking the +1 save "stormhost" that's been teased that means you can have a 3+ reroll all anvil or go the offense route and have a hammer unit that has either 5 attacks 3/3/-2/2  or 5 attacks 3/3/-1/1 that rerolls all hits or wounds!

Edited October 22, 2019 by relic456

[Overread]

Hero sniping has become a big thing for the game so having something that almost denies that and instead works within the unit and relies on you either sniping or having to kill the rest of the unit off is a big change. Of course Reaper heroes are still going to be important to take and will still be important sniper targets.

 

My gut feeling is that this army is going to be a bit like a warmachine/hordes army with their activation abiltiies being far more dominant in their structure. So instead of the few choices with command abilities they've got way more choices to throw at the player which means more structured planning for how you'll use them across all your units 

[Charleston]

15 minutes ago, El Syf said:

Also am I the only person that thinks a 4+ save is far from "excellent"?!

Aehm. In general 6+ is for no armor, 5+ for light and 4+ for heavy armor. Heroes get a general +1 on their stat. Therefore the Guard with a 4+ is in a row with Sequitors or even Evocators, Chaos/Blood Warriors and so on. Therefore it is an excellent save. Rerollable saves are so, too.

About the Tease:

Well, I am not sure what to say about thoose teases. Looks like a nice faction but also like another rule overkill...why do we even have battleshock theese days when gw does anything possible to keep it without an impact? I like the command-thingy, looks like a rule that makes them fun to play and very versatile also. But it is a rule that really would´ve worked better with CoS I think.

Stalkers having attacks en masse and also that sick +1D +1Rend are really frightening. having 3 4+/3+ -3 D3 and 5 3+/3+ -1 D2 attacks is really...yeah...whatever. Why even bother rolling when in combat against them, why not just directly put the unit away? In the End the unit will rely on other sources of rerolls and just push damage like crazy

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

11 minutes ago, Charleston said:

Stalkers having attacks en masse and also that sick +1D +1Rend are really frightening. having 3 4+/3+ -3 D3 and 5 3+/3+ -1 D2 attacks is really...yeah...whatever. Why even bother rolling when in combat against them, why not just directly put the unit away? In the End the unit will rely on other sources of rerolls and just push damage like crazy

What if that's the balancing act for them? What if they don't get any keywords that make them applicable for rerolls outside the generic reroll 1's?

[christophe]

I don't like re-rolling dice... and now for CP like ?

[Skelebags]

I am now extra stoked, these rules look pretty great.
Interested to see what delivery methods they have to actually get those slow dudes to the fight, although they might not need it since you have access to morghasts and cavalry.

[Nasnad]

The stalker do look quite small in this picture, only a little taller than a stormcast. Also, the Mortek Guard only have 1 greatweapon per 20 in this picture?

[relic456]

Just did some quick napkin math but in what situations would you ever choose rerolling hits/wounds on the Stalkers when +1 Damage/+1 Rend is an option? I'll run it through assuming the Stalkers have a -1 hit or -1 wound to see if it makes a difference but I'm not sure it will, the lead is tremendous.

[Overread]

3 minutes ago, relic456 said:

Just did some quick napkin math but in what situations would you ever choose rerolling hits/wounds on the Stalkers when +1 Damage/+1 Rend is an option? I'll run it through assuming the Stalkers have a -1 hit or -1 wound to see if it makes a difference but I'm not sure it will, the lead is tremendous.

It's kind of a hard choice I think, but the re-rolls to hit/wound might well be good against targets that can avoid attacks but might have fewer wounds. Though yes wounds and rend is likely going to be a very popular general choice for many. 

[Panzer]

1 hour ago, El Syf said:

It's a lot more of a tease than some faction focuses have been in the past. The juicier units not getting a look in... 

 

Also am I the only person that thinks a 4+ save is far from "excellent"?! If it was akin to Gotrek's op shoulder pad, then excellent would be the correct adjective. I'd go for mediocre once you apply anything with rend.

It's a 4+ save you can re-roll and potentially improve to a 3+ save with the right subgroup rules. That's really solid for a battleline anvil unit.

[relic456]

22 minutes ago, Overread said:

that can avoid attacks

Any examples in mind? Or do you mean like say against a FNP save? I just ran the averages for when the Stalkers have -1 hit and -1 wound and +1 Damage/+1 Rend still blows the other options out of the water

[Skelebags]

14 minutes ago, relic456 said:

Any examples in mind? Or do you mean like say against a FNP save? I just ran the averages for when the Stalkers have -1 hit and -1 wound and +1 Damage/+1 Rend still blows the other options out of the water

What are the numbers? If you don't mind me asking.
I'm genuinely interested.

[relic456]

@Skelebags

The numbers might be off a bit, I did it pretty quick and dirty using the output from http://tools.druchii.net/index.php and may have fat-fingered something.  I'll probably run through a Mystic Shield scenario too but I don't think it'll change much.  Honestly, it might be a closer competition if it was +1 Damage OR +1 Rend or something.

Edit: I assumed that the Stalkers are a three model unit, with one model wielding the Dread Falchion and the other two wielding the Spirit Blades

Edited October 22, 2019 by relic456

[Skelebags]

2 minutes ago, relic456 said:

*snip*

 

@Skelebags

The numbers might be off a bit, I did it pretty quick and dirty using the output from http://tools.druchii.net/index.php and may have fat-fingered something.  I'll probably run through a Mystic Shield scenario too but I don't think it'll change much.  Honestly, it might be a closer competition if it was +1 Damage OR +1 Rend or something.

Edit: I assumed that the Stalkers are a three model unit, with one model wielding the Dread Falchion and the other two wielding the Spirit Blades

Yeah, that seems pretty cut and dry.
The only times I can think of when you wouldn't pick it is maybe against things where you don't need the rend (because -1 is enough to eat the saves or the opponent has ethereal) and the volume of attacks alone carries enough damage so your more concerned about mitigating your dice spiking low.

[relic456]

Yeah this analysis totally ignores the variance in the results, so if you don't actually need maximum damage but rather a consistent output (like in the situations you mentioned or on low health units), the rerolls might be the right choice.

[El Syf]

46 minutes ago, Panzer said:

It's a 4+ save you can re-roll and potentially improve to a 3+ save with the right subgroup rules. That's really solid for a battleline anvil unit.

It’s good I’m not denying that, just think excellent was too strong. As I said as soon as any rend gets involved it goes from good to at least I get to re-roll a 5 or 6+. 

Not meaning to put a downer on it, I just don’t like the word excellent bein used for something that is reasonable.

Hopefully Nagash and Arkhan get something  with the spell lore and possible warscroll changes.

[Skelebags]

13 minutes ago, El Syf said:

It’s good I’m not denying that, just think excellent was too strong. As I said as soon as any rend gets involved it goes from good to at least I get to re-roll a 5 or 6+. 

Not meaning to put a downer on it, I just don’t like the word excellent bein used for something that is reasonable.

Hopefully Nagash and Arkhan get something  with the spell lore and possible warscroll changes.

The shieldwall ability is reroll saves not reroll *failed* saves, so rend doesn't stop you rerolling anything.

[El Syf]

8 minutes ago, Skelebags said:

The shieldwall ability is reroll saves not reroll *failed* saves, so rend doesn't stop you rerolling anything.

Missed that 😅

[Neinball]

All of the rerolls we saw today appear be to be any and all rolls instead of just fails.  That is a quite the bonus. While the rules are looking to be awesome, I’m guessing these units are going to be expensive points wise.

[Panzer]

1 hour ago, El Syf said:

It’s good I’m not denying that, just think excellent was too strong. As I said as soon as any rend gets involved it goes from good to at least I get to re-roll a 5 or 6+. 

Not meaning to put a downer on it, I just don’t like the word excellent bein used for something that is reasonable.

Hopefully Nagash and Arkhan get something  with the spell lore and possible warscroll changes.

I'm honestly not sure what else you were expecting. It'll be one of the toughest battleline units out there...

[Evil Bob]

3 hours ago, Charleston said:

Snip

...why do we even have battleshock theese days when gw does anything possible to keep it without an impact? 

Snip

Consider the bright side.  Transitioning into AoS everyone got our battle moral immunity without paying the Death Tax.  Keeping that point cost and having it mean something again would be an improvement.

Totally in agreement that phycology has met a tragic death in this game.  Price we pay for “streamlined” rules.

[Emissary]

4 hours ago, Overread said:

 

Our first proper look behind the trebuchet! Wider and you can clearly see the platform now at the back where there's the loader and fire commander ready to get the arm pulled back and ready to fire. 

Anyone else notice one catapult is firing the screaming skulls we have seen before and the other is firing an urn or pot?

[Overread]

15 minutes ago, Emissary said:

Anyone else notice one catapult is firing the screaming skulls we have seen before and the other is firing an urn or pot?

We've seen both before in different works of art. Likely its different types of ammunition. Perhaps the skulls are more a scatter shot - so weaker but hits more targets; whilst the urn might hit fewer targets but do a lot more damage. 

 

Otherwise its really interesting to see them get two big and complex kits (harvester and trebuchet) which are not duel kits. 

[Sandor]

2 minutes ago, Overread said:

We've seen both before in different works of art. Likely its different types of ammunition. Perhaps the skulls are more a scatter shot - so weaker but hits more targets; whilst the urn might hit fewer targets but do a lot more damage. 

 

Otherwise its really interesting to see them get two big and complex kits (harvester and trebuchet) which are not duel kits. 

After seeing the Gothizzar Harvester on the newest artwork, he doesn’t seem that big. He seems to be on a 105x70mm base. But compared to the size of stormcast and khorne next to him, he seems more like a Khorgorath size.