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Still-young

AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

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I really want to run an all cav list supported by Katakros and Arkhan. The issues Im running into is trying to choose a legion and taking the kavalos battalion. Im leaning toward the list below. Being able to run and charge and retreat and charge seems beneficial also considering the MW attack.  Would it be best to focus on Katakros +1 save with MP, use PE and take the Kavalos battalion, or just taking SL legion. 

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Edited by SilverJelly
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No matter what the list is going to suffer from a lack of bodies, durability. and dmg. Horse boys just don't really hit that hard. I would probably try to go for MP as +1 to hit and +1 save across the board is huge, and somewhat off sets both of those problems. No matter what the Bone-Tithe Strieker is something you should drop as it is completely redundant with Katakros who already makes your army hit on 2's. 

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Sry of this question was made in the past.

Does the ability Bone Harvest of the Harvester trigger instantly  after a model is death or after all attacks of the attacking unit was made?

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4 hours ago, Drazhoath said:

Sry of this question was made in the past.

Does the ability Bone Harvest of the Harvester trigger instantly  after a model is death or after all attacks of the attacking unit was made?

all attacks happen simultaneously in one activation. Meaning lets say your opponent has 5 attacks with one weapon, then 4 more attacks with another weapon. They all happen at once, you determine the damage taken after save rolls and then start removing models, when you do roll a dice whenever you remove a model

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Yesterday, I played in the second annual team championship in Perth.

8 teams of 5. Myself and another guy did our team pairings. Three rounds, Blade's Edge, Knife to the Heart, Force the Hand. I played Gloomspite, Eels and Sylvaneth. Got three majors.

The Gloomspite guy was fairly new. He made some mistakes and I capitalized.

The Eel guy was experienced and it was tough. So tough. I was getting turn 3 wiped. I managed to remove Morteks in a way to deny attacks from a multi-charge.. two Morteks survived. Return. Return. Return. +3 speed. Leave combat and walk 5 guys onto his flag.

Holy ****** the Eel damage output. Striking at the start of combat so I don't get rerolls. So rough.

The Sylvaneth player I got final round was really good. Out-dropping me, he managed to go in before Katacross got his buff up. Fat unit of big dudes with scythes are murder machines, Alaerele didn't kill as many Morteks as she'd like. I eventually ground him out.

Tournament details/lists are here if you're interested.

https://downunderpairings.com/Tournament.php?TournamentID=1197&Panel1=Leaderboard&Panel2=Teams

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Lads,

Managed to get a win against Bone Splittaz and KO in my slow grow (1500Ppts) league. I didn't get to run the list I wanted to. (because my ****** didnt arrive in time - 1 Crawler and 10 Mortek) I ran the following.

Katakros
Arkhan

10x Mortek (blades)

10x Mortek (blades)

5x Deathriders (blades)

3x Stalkers

Soul Stealer Carrion

1500 / 1500

The bone Splittaz game ended top of turn 3 when I rolled priority. He'd never played OBR before, and I warned him prior how tough the mortek are to shift but he backed his boarboyz and charged both fronts with his ten man units. Luckily my mate has been talking non stop about bone splittaz because he wants to get into them so I knew exactly what he was going to do turn 1, and set up for it putting the riders and stalkers in a position to pile in after he attacked the mortek. Needless to say the rest of the game was me just eating through his block of boyz. End of the game I'd lost 0 models and he was tabled except for his heroes.

Im particularly happy with how the KO game went. Usually this dude just shoots me off the table and to make things worse, the battleplan we rolled was knife to the heart. I know this dude is a big fan of spell in a bottle (Warp lightning vortex), so I knew he was going to give me first turn and go for the double. He gave me first turn and I managaed to shuffle around in such a way that he could only fly high into one spot on the edge of the board in my territory. Id run my deathriders up the flank making him think I'd left my army exposed. He fell for it and flew both his gunhauler and Ironclad high, dropped the WLV and got one of my mortek units down to 4 models. We rolled for priority and I won it... thank f*uck. In saying that, I think I would have been okay, even if he got the double. Arkhan dispelled the WLV and cast some buffs and moved up the board and charged the battleline hed left on the objective.Charged in a unit of ten mortek, Katakros and the deathriders came back down the flank. Tried for the stalkers but couldnt get them in.  The mortek spiked big and managed to get rid of the gunhauler which allowed katakros to pile into the ironclad. The deathriders and katakros brought the ironclad down to 4 wounds. Arkhan cleared 9/10 battleline and copped a gunbutt to the head, which let him teleport back into my territory with protection of nagash.

My opponent started his turn... had a think for a few minutes and conceded. The ironclad was stuck. and He wasn't going to be able to clear me off the objective with the units he had left (2 heroes, 10 thunderers and 3 balloon boys.) 

MVP's were the Kata and Arkhan combo bringing back 6 wounds a turn. The stalkers were just an absolute blender against the Bonesplittaz.  Good fun, I was the first person in our league to actually beat the KO haha, so that was fun! 

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7 hours ago, Sharklone said:

Lads,

Managed to get a win against Bone Splittaz and KO in my slow grow (1500Ppts) league. I didn't get to run the list I wanted to. (because my ****** didnt arrive in time - 1 Crawler and 10 Mortek) I ran the following.

Katakros
Arkhan

10x Mortek (blades)

10x Mortek (blades)

5x Deathriders (blades)

3x Stalkers

Soul Stealer Carrion

1500 / 1500

The bone Splittaz game ended top of turn 3 when I rolled priority. He'd never played OBR before, and I warned him prior how tough the mortek are to shift but he backed his boarboyz and charged both fronts with his ten man units. Luckily my mate has been talking non stop about bone splittaz because he wants to get into them so I knew exactly what he was going to do turn 1, and set up for it putting the riders and stalkers in a position to pile in after he attacked the mortek. Needless to say the rest of the game was me just eating through his block of boyz. End of the game I'd lost 0 models and he was tabled except for his heroes.

Im particularly happy with how the KO game went. Usually this dude just shoots me off the table and to make things worse, the battleplan we rolled was knife to the heart. I know this dude is a big fan of spell in a bottle (Warp lightning vortex), so I knew he was going to give me first turn and go for the double. He gave me first turn and I managaed to shuffle around in such a way that he could only fly high into one spot on the edge of the board in my territory. Id run my deathriders up the flank making him think I'd left my army exposed. He fell for it and flew both his gunhauler and Ironclad high, dropped the WLV and got one of my mortek units down to 4 models. We rolled for priority and I won it... thank f*uck. In saying that, I think I would have been okay, even if he got the double. Arkhan dispelled the WLV and cast some buffs and moved up the board and charged the battleline hed left on the objective.Charged in a unit of ten mortek, Katakros and the deathriders came back down the flank. Tried for the stalkers but couldnt get them in.  The mortek spiked big and managed to get rid of the gunhauler which allowed katakros to pile into the ironclad. The deathriders and katakros brought the ironclad down to 4 wounds. Arkhan cleared 9/10 battleline and copped a gunbutt to the head, which let him teleport back into my territory with protection of nagash.

My opponent started his turn... had a think for a few minutes and conceded. The ironclad was stuck. and He wasn't going to be able to clear me off the objective with the units he had left (2 heroes, 10 thunderers and 3 balloon boys.) 

MVP's were the Kata and Arkhan combo bringing back 6 wounds a turn. The stalkers were just an absolute blender against the Bonesplittaz.  Good fun, I was the first person in our league to actually beat the KO haha, so that was fun! 

Your list is pretty much a fully ready to compete at a higher level tourney list for 2k, just needs some more guard and a catapult or two!

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Alright ladies and gentlebones, I've got a list idea that isn't just putting all my eggs in one basket, i'm literally throwing the whole basket. 

Nagash

2x20 mortek guard

1x5 deathriders

2 catapults

soulstealer carrion (my local meta is using a lot of LoS blocking tricks and every tournament table has at least 2 overgrown so nagash will use the carrion to throw spells and gazes from cover)

Will probably be in stalliarch for the abuseable movement but null myriad might also be a fair choice for the added magic protection beyond nagash (local meta is very magic heavy with 2 teclis players and 3 kroak players)

I'm tempted to take this to a 5 game event but have yet to even try it. Thoughts?

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9 hours ago, Lucky Snake Eyes said:

Alright ladies and gentlebones, I've got a list idea that isn't just putting all my eggs in one basket, i'm literally throwing the whole basket. 

Nagash

2x20 mortek guard

1x5 deathriders

2 catapults

soulstealer carrion (my local meta is using a lot of LoS blocking tricks and every tournament table has at least 2 overgrown so nagash will use the carrion to throw spells and gazes from cover)

Will probably be in stalliarch for the abuseable movement but null myriad might also be a fair choice for the added magic protection beyond nagash (local meta is very magic heavy with 2 teclis players and 3 kroak players)

I'm tempted to take this to a 5 game event but have yet to even try it. Thoughts?

Wouldn’t you like to try harvesters instead of crawlers? If someone destroys one of your MG or kavalos units, you’re going to struggle to hold objectives. Harvesters are awesome in keeping you MG units alive and can heal Nagash as well.

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8 hours ago, daf said:

Wouldn’t you like to try harvesters instead of crawlers? If someone destroys one of your MG or kavalos units, you’re going to struggle to hold objectives. Harvesters are awesome in keeping you MG units alive and can heal Nagash as well.

I have a harvester but I haven't had a chance to try the catapults yet and would love to put the fear of nagash into the local teclis and kroak players with them. Maybe one of each could still have some gas?

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You could try one of each but I personally found crawlers a bit disappointing, especially when I used one. They are extremely swingy. Of course when you roll nicely, they do a lot of damage but I find clash + durability much more efficient for OBR.

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Crawlers are essentially a necessity for OBR. They force the opponent to engage. Without them, Most opponents can simply sit back and watch as we take like 3 turns to cross the board. 

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I love the harvester model wise, but in practicality too often it seems to just amount to 10 more wounds for a nearby mortek unit for 200 points instead of 130.  It's just too obvious to prioritize the harvester, and if the opponent targets the harvester first then it isn't doing all that much in the mean time.

Yeah the crawlers are very swingy, and pretty ineffective against armor, but they're actually doing stuff for you from the moment they're deployed, even before that if your opponent knows you're bringing some.  They force awkward deployments of 5 wound wizards and buff heroes to keep them out of line of sight, they force opponents otherwise content to dance around your slower mortek blocks to actually have to engage with you, they clear chaff screens out of the way of your charging units, they whittle down tar pits so your expensive elite units can break out and get to the real fights.  Even if they don't 'earn their points back' in straight forward kills, they can still swing otherwise unwinnable games in your favor.

The harvester on the other hand... increases the defensive efficiency of morteks.  But only if you can force the enemy to target those morteks first.  And morteks are already pretty darn efficient defensively, even post-petrifex nerf.   Doubling down on faction strengths isn't a terrible call, but with the harvester you're also doubling down on the weaknesses - slow, vulnerability to ranged attacks, etc.

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Sception said:

I love the harvester model wise, but in practicality too often it seems to just amount to 10 more wounds for a nearby mortek unit for 200 points instead of 130.  It's just too obvious to prioritize the harvester, and if the opponent targets the harvester first then it isn't doing all that much in the mean time.

Yeah the crawlers are very swingy, and pretty ineffective against armor, but they're actually doing stuff for you from the moment they're deployed, even before that if your opponent knows you're bringing some.  They force awkward deployments of 5 wound wizards and buff heroes to keep them out of line of sight, they force opponents otherwise content to dance around your slower mortek blocks to actually have to engage with you, they clear chaff screens out of the way of your charging units, they whittle down tar pits so your expensive elite units can break out and get to the real fights.  Even if they don't 'earn their points back' in straight forward kills, they can still swing otherwise unwinnable games in your favor.

The harvester on the other hand... increases the defensive efficiency of morteks.  But only if you can force the enemy to target those morteks first.  And morteks are already pretty darn efficient defensively, even post-petrifex nerf.   Doubling down on faction strengths isn't a terrible call, but with the harvester you're also doubling down on the weaknesses - slow, vulnerability to ranged attacks, etc.

The point you made about the Harvester being an overpriced  10 wound extension of a nearby Mortek guard unit, IMO, is only true if your opponent has a ton of shooting. Once you lock a big unit of mortek into a mult-unit combat with the Harvester nestled in somewhere safely, you're as good as gold. That unit isn't budging now, and with Bludgeon or a Liege nearby using Endless duty, you have tar pits that slap like a mother and you are likely winning that game unless you're getting dunked on objectives. When you are able to get into this situation, which isn't that unrealistic unless you're against a super range spam enemy and If you aren't, the Harvester can definitely get so much value it's sickening, but it does require some clutch positioning and protection.

I personally like to pair it up with a Boneshaper with a Lode of Saturation so that if they do decide to target it, it's gonna be pretty hard to take out between the 5++ and the 3 wounds healed per turn.

Edited by Sooper88

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The point that he is making, and that I agree with, is that the harvester literally only boosts the survivability of the guard in melee, a place where they already shine. Harvester only increases your chances in a melee centric march up, where OBR already has a huge advantage. Crawlers are a board wide threat that forces engagement and threatens low bravery, low armor units, or can easily snipe heros. 

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Isn't the answer to just bring one of each?  Two crawlers just seems like a whole lot into shooting to me.  Of course, you take a look at big tournaments and a lot of folks bring two I suppose.

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8 hours ago, Btimmy said:

The point that he is making, and that I agree with, is that the harvester literally only boosts the survivability of the guard in melee, a place where they already shine. Harvester only increases your chances in a melee centric march up, where OBR already has a huge advantage. Crawlers are a board wide threat that forces engagement and threatens low bravery, low armor units, or can easily snipe heros. 

Basically, yeah, this.  If your opponent doesn't have the tools to target the harvester directly, whether via range, magic, fast flying units, teleporters, or whatever, if they're stuck in a straight forward, by the books brawl with no dirty tricks, 9 times out of 10 that's a game the morteks are going to win on their own.  The stuff that beats morteks - range, magic, the speed & maneuverability to engage only on their terms or avoid engaging altogether, expendible tar pits or speed bumps that can tie the morteks up for days while other units win on objectives, etc - harvester support doesn't really help morteks with any of that, but crawler support can.

The issue with taking one of both is that taking two of these 200 point support units doesn't leave you with a lot of points spare for other necessary list components - enough morteks to provide a solid backbone, character base to provide discipline points and buffs, at least some faster units so your army doesn't get completely boxed in before the game even starts.  And if you do have 400 spare points, the case against spending points on harvesters - ie they're a 'win more' option in games where you're already starting with an advantage - stands against taking one regardless of what else you're fielding, while a pair of crawlers are, if anything, /more/ than twice as good as a single crawler in the kind of support they offer.

I do want to be clear that I'm not saying the Harvester is /bad/.  It does what it does reasonably well, and it looks amazing.  It's a good unit that provides good support, just not the support that our mortek-based armies need.  If we had an alternative core battleline infantry that was more offensively based - less armor than morteks - maybe great weapons instead of weapon & shield?  Maybe move 5 or 6 instead of 4?  offensive CD instead of shield wall?  Give us something like that, something that just pays for offense, where a harvester can bring in the durability they don't pay for, and I think harvesters would really shine.

As it is, yeah, the harvester's not bad at all, and looks great, and I don't think anyone is doing anything wrong by taking one.  But to paraphrase the meme, they the support unit we deserve, but not the one we need right now.

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I was wondering if anyone can help me.

I have basically 2 x bonereapers feast of bones and a crawler to start an army with. 

I'd like to start and paint 1000pts to play with. Not looking to make it too competitive as I often play against my son. But I also want it to not be terrible. I've made a list below based upon what I own so far (leaving out the 4 morghasts I own). Happy to buy the odd unit / character for something better balanced, but looking for tweeks rather than bin the models I already own and just take all Mortek Guard kind of suggestions. Thanks for any help 😀

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Mortis Praetorians

Leaders
Vokmortian, Master of the Bone-tithe (180)

Battleline
10 x Mortek Guard (130)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
10 x Mortek Guard (130)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield

Units
3 x Necropolis Stalkers (180)
3 x Immortis Guard (180)

Artillery
Mortek Crawler (200)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 62
 

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On 10/1/2020 at 10:01 AM, Sception said:

The issue with taking one of both is that taking two of these 200 point support units doesn't leave you with a lot of points spare for other necessary list components - enough morteks to provide a solid backbone, character base to provide discipline points and buffs, at least some faster units so your army doesn't get completely boxed in before the game even starts.  And if you do have 400 spare points, the case against spending points on harvesters - ie they're a 'win more' option in games where you're already starting with an advantage - stands against taking one regardless of what else you're fielding, while a pair of crawlers are, if anything, /more/ than twice as good as a single crawler in the kind of support they offer.

I do want to be clear that I'm not saying the Harvester is /bad/.  It does what it does reasonably well, and it looks amazing.  It's a good unit that provides good support, just not the support that our mortek-based armies need.  If we had an alternative core battleline infantry that was more offensively based - less armor than morteks - maybe great weapons instead of weapon & shield?  Maybe move 5 or 6 instead of 4?  offensive CD instead of shield wall?  Give us something like that, something that just pays for offense, where a harvester can bring in the durability they don't pay for, and I think harvesters would really shine.

For the record, I definitely don't think 2 harvesters is ever a good idea, and I definitely do see your points and agree that 2 crawlers is hard to go wrong with, but I do disagree that the harvester is necessarily win-more.

I do believe you might be overstating the dominance of Morteks in combat though, especially post PE nerfs. There are a lot of good armies right now that can chew through Morteks right now that have lots of rend and/or mortal wounds (fyreslayers, FEC Terrorgheists spam, OBR mirror, IDK eel spam, even some Seraphon lists). In these match ups, which I think can be tight in combat, having a Harvester chugging out free 4+++ can be a backbreaker. Even in matchups that we already win combat, this allows us to do more with less or blow out a combat more quickly and take a more advantageous position, or even save RDPs from shield wall that can be used more offensively.

 

Honestly, I like lists that run two crawlers and a harvester but I know that's not easy to do with the popular Katakros lists.

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I may be overstating Mortek dominance in a pure slugfest, but TerrorFECs & Eels can pretty easily tag the Harvester and kill it first, and anything with halfway decent ranged output - which includes mirror match (if they take 1 or more crawlers), fyreslayers (harvesters drop pretty fast to magmapikes), seraphon with spells & salamanders, tzeentch flamers, etc - is going to be able to prioritize targeting the harvester, which again reduces it to just being +10 wounds for a mortek squad but costing 200 points instead of 130.

Again, I'm not at all saying the harvester is bad.  I just think that if the points in your list come down to choosing between a harvester and a second crawler, as is so often the case, then... well, honestly, at that point you probably haven't taken enough morteks, or enough heroes to power them up, or you've skipped on taking at least one one unit of kav and you should probably fix that.  But if the rest of your list is in proper order and you've still got room to decide between a harvester and a second crawler, most of the time the second crawler is going to provide more of the support that you actually need to deal with the kinds of units and tactics that are otherwise going to give you the most trouble.

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20 hours ago, Sception said:

I may be overstating Mortek dominance in a pure slugfest, but TerrorFECs & Eels can pretty easily tag the Harvester and kill it first, and anything with halfway decent ranged output - which includes mirror match (if they take 1 or more crawlers), fyreslayers (harvesters drop pretty fast to magmapikes), seraphon with spells & salamanders, tzeentch flamers, etc - is going to be able to prioritize targeting the harvester, which again reduces it to just being +10 wounds for a mortek squad but costing 200 points instead of 130.

Again, I'm not at all saying the harvester is bad.  I just think that if the points in your list come down to choosing between a harvester and a second crawler, as is so often the case, then... well, honestly, at that point you probably haven't taken enough morteks, or enough heroes to power them up, or you've skipped on taking at least one one unit of kav and you should probably fix that.  But if the rest of your list is in proper order and you've still got room to decide between a harvester and a second crawler, most of the time the second crawler is going to provide more of the support that you actually need to deal with the kinds of units and tactics that are otherwise going to give you the most trouble.

Fair points all around. Perhaps it's just my bias leaking through because I just really enjoy the model and have seen it shine in it's most ideal scenarios before but I can logically pull back and see that a crawler is all around a safer, more utilitarian option.

 

How many Mortek Guard do you see as the floor for a 2k point army? Almost every list I've tried / written up has 50 as the absolute floor, generally 60, split into to 3 units, with the Shield Corp battalion. They just seem like too important of a core for the army to skip.

I try to fit in at least a 5 man unit of riders for objectives and taking out casters. I'd love to try and play around with a 15 man squad, maybe even supported by a Liege with a helm of command, as it seems like it could really hit like a ton of bricks, but doing so either means not running the crawlers, or cutting back significantly on Mortek.

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I do 60 minimum, typically as 3 units of 20, but an argument can be made for 10, 10, 40 as well. 

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31 minutes ago, Btimmy said:

I do 60 minimum, typically as 3 units of 20, but an argument can be made for 10, 10, 40 as well. 

I've been using 40/10/10, mostly because getting off that first activation with 30+ Morteks swinging can wreak havoc, especially when buffed up with Endless Duty and/or Bludgeon. The 10 man units are there generally just to screen or threaten objectives, and can still do some decent damage if they can charge at full strength.

 

Why do you prefer 20/20/20? Spreading the power around a little more?

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Yeah, blocks of 20 are strong enough to survive pretty much anything by themselves, and allows for more units to absorb the healing abilities of Katakros and Arkhan. 

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