AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[ACBelMutie]

On 5/6/2020 at 5:12 PM, Inferno said:

Hi,

I  have rules question:

Can Nagash, heal himself with Invocation of Nagash ablity? 
Imo, he can as he gets OB keyword. 

He can heal himself 3 wounds if you are playing Ossiarch Bonereapers. He can't heal himself in Legions of Nagash.

 

16 hours ago, frostfire said:

I know we are going through the quarantine but has any one played against the new seraphon since they came out for months?

They got some serious ranged damage and I think it would be a hard match up for OBR.

I played in tabletop simulator versus them. I won thanks to the first double turn, where I could charge him with a unit of 20 Mortek Guards and shoot them with 2 Crawlers.

The lists:

Seraphon

• 1x Lord Kroak
• 1x Saurus Astrolith Beare
• 1x Skink Starseer
• 2x Engine of Gods (General)
• 2x Bastiladon
• 1x8 Salamander Hunting Pack
• 3x Skinks
• Spells: Valewind Vortex

Ossiarch Bonereapers

• 1x Liege-Kavalos (General)
• 1x Arkhan
• 1x Mortsian Boneshaper
• 2x Mortek Crawler
• 3x20 Mortek Guards
• Batalion

Greetings

[ogarrah]

Hey guys, I'm a Khorne player who is interested in starting an OBR army, do you guys have any beginner tips for starting and playing an OBR army? I've been wargaming for a while but I figure I should come to the pros for tips on OBR.

I also created a list just for the heck of it, let me know what you guys think:

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Petrifex Elite

Leaders
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
- Artefact: Artisan's Key
- Lore of Mortisans: Empower Nadirite Weapons
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
- Artefact: Lode of Saturation
- Lore of Mortisans: Empower Nadirite Weapons
Liege-Kavalos (200)
- General
- Command Trait: Mighty Archaeossian
- Artefact: Godbone Armour

Battleline
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Spear and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Spear and Shield
10 x Mortek Guard (130)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
- 1x Soulcleaver Greatblades

Units
2 x Morghast Archai (210)
- Spirit Halberds
3 x Necropolis Stalkers (200)
3 x Necropolis Stalkers (200)
3 x Immortis Guard (200)

Battalions
Katakrosian Deathglaive (80)
Kavalos Lance (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105
 

Khorne has pretty good battalions, so I'm a sucker for taking lots of them, I love artifacts and low (ish) drop armies. Honestly this list probably sucks because it looks nothing like any other lists I've seen for OBR but whatever. Obviously I haven't been able to play anyone with this list, or play any games with OBR at all, so I'm not really sure what strategy I would use with this list, I just put it together because I'm bored. I'm interested to hear if you guys have any advice  for a newbie OBR bone tithe collector. Thank you in advance for any advice!

Edited May 7, 2020 by ogarrah
Typo

[grimshwiz]

2 hours ago, ogarrah said:

Hey guys, I'm a Khorne player who is interested in starting an OBR army, do you guys have any beginner tips for starting and playing an OBR army? I've been wargaming for a while but I figure I should come to the pros for tips on OBR.

I also created a list just for the heck of it, let me know what you guys think:

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Petrifex Elite

Leaders
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
- Artefact: Artisan's Key
- Lore of Mortisans: Empower Nadirite Weapons
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
- Artefact: Lode of Saturation
- Lore of Mortisans: Empower Nadirite Weapons
Liege-Kavalos (200)
- General
- Command Trait: Mighty Archaeossian
- Artefact: Godbone Armour

Battleline
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Spear and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Spear and Shield
10 x Mortek Guard (130)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
- 1x Soulcleaver Greatblades

Units
2 x Morghast Archai (210)
- Spirit Halberds
3 x Necropolis Stalkers (200)
3 x Necropolis Stalkers (200)
3 x Immortis Guard (200)

Battalions
Katakrosian Deathglaive (80)
Kavalos Lance (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105
 

Khorne has pretty good battalions, so I'm a sucker for taking lots of them, I love artifacts and low (ish) drop armies. Honestly this list probably sucks because it looks nothing like any other lists I've seen for OBR but whatever. Obviously I haven't been able to play anyone with this list, or play any games with OBR at all, so I'm not really sure what strategy I would use with this list, I just put it together because I'm bored. I'm interested to hear if you guys have any advice  for a newbie OBR bone tithe collector. Thank you in advance for any advice!

I can't help, but this looks VERY similar to the list I would want to play if I decide to go with OBR over FEC.

[Shmaravoz]

Checkout BulldogHammer's new Battle Report OBR vs Ironjawz. Both lists are competitive 

 

Edited May 8, 2020 by Shmaravoz

[PraetorDragoon]

What would people run in a 1250 point list? Preferribly with a Soulmason as its my favourite Bonereaper unit. 

[Falkman]

16 hours ago, ogarrah said:

Leaders
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
- Artefact: Artisan's Key
- Lore of Mortisans: Empower Nadirite Weapons
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
- Artefact: Lode of Saturation
- Lore of Mortisans: Empower Nadirite Weapons

 

Running the same spell on both Boneshapers feels a bit restricting. I know it gives you options from where you want to cast the spell, but since the built-in spell for the Boneshaper is pretty situational you will often end up with one of them casting Empower weapons and the other one not being able to cast anything at all (well, there's always Mystic shield I suppose). I would consider looking into taking another spell for one of them.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Falkman

[ogarrah]

4 hours ago, Falkman said:

Running the same spell on both Boneshapers feels a bit restricting. I know it gives you options from where you want to cast the spell, but since the built-in spell for the Boneshaper is pretty situational you will often end up with one of them casting Empower weapons and the other one not being able to cast anything at all (well, there's always Mystic shield I suppose). I would consider looking into taking another spell for one of them.

What spell would you suggest? I could take Arcane Command, but with only one cast for the Boneshaper I doubt I'd be using it much. I'm interested in the trolling power of Protection of Nagash but I don't think it's worth it to use it on a Boneshaper. Reinforce Battle-Shields isn't bad, but it's only for MW so...  Drain Vitality is ok, I guess and Mortal Contract looks good but is pretty situational. 

Edited May 8, 2020 by ogarrah
Typo

[Falkman]

35 minutes ago, ogarrah said:

What spell would you suggest? I could take Arcane Command, but with only one cast for the Boneshaper I doubt I'd be using it much. I'm interested in the trolling power of Protection of Nagash but I don't think it's worth it to use it on a Boneshaper. Reinforce Battle-Shields isn't bad, but it's only for MW so...  Drain Vitality is ok, I guess and Mortal Contract looks good but is pretty situational. 

I haven’t played Bonereapers myself, but since you can’t cast the same spell more than once per turn your spell choice made me react.

I think Drain vitality looks very good against the right target though. A lot of models do extra stuff on hit rolls of 6 so forcing them to re-roll those and missing out on the bonuses can be very useful.

[ACBelMutie]

3 hours ago, ogarrah said:

What spell would you suggest? I could take Arcane Command, but with only one cast for the Boneshaper I doubt I'd be using it much. I'm interested in the trolling power of Protection of Nagash but I don't think it's worth it to use it on a Boneshaper. Reinforce Battle-Shields isn't bad, but it's only for MW so...  Drain Vitality is ok, I guess and Mortal Contract looks good but is pretty situational. 

"Only" against  MW... yes, but that's what you need, survive to MWs. You can survive against normal wounds rerolling saves (and 6++).

Greetings

[Deciem]

Hey guys, I recently listened to a list building podcast by some tournament players and they referenced something odd. Can you bounce between two separate units when allocating wounds to two units? To clarify, you opponent had nominated two if your units as targets, and has split their attacks.

The specific situation this covers would be if my opponent targets both my Harvester and Mortek at the same time, and say they resolve their attacks with 15 wounds to the Harvester and 15 to the Mortek, and I have yet to allocate wounds. Normally, the Harvester would die. However, since wound allocation occurs one at a time, could I 'flick' between the Harvester and the Mortek, potentially keeping my Harvester alive?

The podcast I listened to says they indeed do use it in that manner, however I can't find anything in either direction except for that podcast. Specifically it is the JP Stevens one regarding building the best Bonereapers list.

Edited May 13, 2020 by Deciem

[EMMachine]

@Deciem

I don't know why you ask the same question in two different threads. I gave you an answer in the rules thread:

 

[Deciem]

1 hour ago, EMMachine said:

I don't know why you ask the same question in two different threads. I gave you an answer in the rules thread:

 

Visibility and discussion. 
So regarding this, resolution of attacks includes allocation of wounds? I agree that you resolve all attacks against one unit before moving to the next, but the rules state that you don't allocate wounds until after all of a unit's attacks have been resolved.
The core rules for "Allocating wounds" state: "Once all of a unit’s attacks have been resolved, add up the damage that was inflicted," followed by, "wounds are allocated one at a time to models in the target unit. You can allocate the wounds inflicted on your units as you see fit (the models do not have to be within range or visible to the attacking unit). However, if you allocate a wound to a model, you must keep on allocating wounds to that model until it is slain – a unit can never have more than one wounded model."
The reason this portion of the rules doesn't fully answer my question is that it only refers to a singular "target unit" , but in the next sentence goes on to say, "You can allocate the wounds inflicted on your units as you see fit" (emphasis mine). Taking the whole section together leads me to believe that, as long as I don't have inflicted wounds on more than 1 model in each unit at a time, I can freely switch between allocating wounds to 1 unit then another.

 

Edited May 13, 2020 by Deciem

[Shmaravoz]

New Batreport NAGASH (Petrogash Elit) vs IronJawz! 

 

[ogarrah]

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Stalliarch Lords
Mortal Realm: Aqshy

Leaders
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
- Artefact: Artisan's Key
- Lore of Mortisans: Empower Nadirite Weapons
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
- Lore of Mortisans: Mortal Contract
Liege-Kavalos (200)
- General
- Command Trait: Twisted Challenge
- Artefact: Nadir-bound Mount

Battleline
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Spear and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Spear and Shield
10 x Mortek Guard (130)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
- 1x Soulcleaver Greatblades
10 x Mortek Guard (130)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield

Units
2 x Morghast Archai (210)
- Spirit Halberds
3 x Necropolis Stalkers (200)
3 x Necropolis Stalkers (200)

Behemoths
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
- Weapon: Soulcleaver Sickles

Battalions
Katakrosian Deathglaive (80)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 113
 

Messing around with some OBR lists, obviously I can't actually test this out in person, but I think the idea of this list is intriguing. As you might guess, my idea with this list is to Alpha-Strike the heck out of my opponent.  I think catapulting the majority of my army across the board turn one could really mess with my opponent, I could drop a unit of Mortek guard and add the Kavalos Lance battalion, but the only real benefit I would get is the free CA for the deathriders and less drops, because the run and charge is redundant with Stalliarch Lords. 

With the 6" scout movement, the +3"CA and run and charge, the Harbingers have a threat range of 18+4d6 (average of 14" 1D6 run + 3D6 charge) That's an average movement of 32" (!) More than enough to get to your opponents squishy support heroes and wizards to smack them out of the universe. 

My basic strategy with this list would be to launch everything in my army that I can across the board turn one, except for the mortek guard and boneshapers, although I'll need them to keep up with the pack. The Harbingers can get the squishy backline, while the deathriders, leige kavalos and stalkers massacre everything else. Given the fact that I'm taking a lot of multi wound models, I thought taking the Gothizzar harvester would be prudent, although I could take it out to add 3 more stalkers. I could also take the harvester and the endless spell out to increase the size of my harbinger unit, do you guys think that would be worth it? I'll list my questions below:

1. Is this list somewhat competitively viable (look I know it's not petrifex but...)

2. Should I change this list to add more stalkers or harbingers?

3. Halberds or Spirit Blades for the Harbingers? Halberds seem to have better damage potential, but I think the blades might be better overall, what do you guys think?

Anyway, that's all the questions and comments I have about this list. As always, thank you in advance for any questions and suggestions. Cheers!

Edited May 19, 2020 by ogarrah
Typo (I hate them ok?)

[Heaven_lord]

Heu, found this list on YouTube, do you fin it competitive and if yes, is it safe to invest on it before the new GHB ?

Thanks !

[OkayestDM]

So, obviously Petrefix Elite is the go-to competitively. When it comes to more casual play, what are the others like?

[ACBelMutie]

1 hour ago, Heaven_lord said:

Heu, found this list on YouTube, do you fin it competitive and if yes, is it safe to invest on it before the new GHB ?

Thanks !

 

It's a difficult question. Bonereapers will have points changes I think, so you should maybe wait for another month for the new GHB.

About the list... I'd drop 10 Mortek Guards to get the batalion and change Kavalos for a Mortisan (you need it for the batalion) so you'll have enough points to invest in extra movement or extra rending.

Greetings

[simakover]

Hello, im have Nagash and planing to get some OB models for making new army( thinking about get 60 guard + harvester + boneshaper)
But how Nagash work in this lists? is he  charge enemy(with 2+ reroll save and healing) or stay behind, that spells beter to cast or better spam bolts? 

[Finklelord]

Hey everyone,

Finally got a good chunk of OBR and I'm ready to start assembling. Hopefully this will be the army that I stick with! 

*Fun fact I started playing Vampire Counts back in the day, went to Nighthaunt, then FEC. So basically played every Death army ha*

So far have the following (all unassembled) 

• Liege-Kavalos
• Boneshaper
• Soulmason
• 40x Mortek guard
• 6x Stalkers/Immortis Guard
• 5x Deathriders
• Harvester
• Nexus
• Endless Spells

A couple of quick questions before I start assembling and playing.

1. I see in a lot of 2000 point lists people don't use the Liege-Kavalos often. Is the reason for that because we have better options? 
2. Is it worth having a 6 man unit of Stalkers/Immortis Guard or stick to 2 groups of 3?
3. Is a heavy Deathrider army viable? Not looking to be super competitive. I enjoy their models a lot
4. Are the endless spells worth taking? I don't see many people use them
5. Is Arkhan and Katakros a must take for higher point games? They seem amazing but I feel like it leaves little room for other units.

I believe someone posted it a couple of pages back but I'm shooting for a full 1000 point painted army (just to get my bearings) then I'll expand into more units like the Crawlers and Arkhan. 

List as follows:

Quote

 

Legion: Petrifax or Stalliarch

Liege-Kavalos

Boneshaper

20x Mortek Guard

5x Deathriders

3x Stalkers or Harvester

Shrieker

 

Let me know what you think! 

As always any advice or recommendations is always welcome! 

[Arcian]

12 hours ago, Finklelord said:

1. I see in a lot of 2000 point lists people don't use the Liege-Kavalos often. Is the reason for that because we have better options? 
2. Is it worth having a 6 man unit of Stalkers/Immortis Guard or stick to 2 groups of 3?
3. Is a heavy Deathrider army viable? Not looking to be super competitive. I enjoy their models a lot
4. Are the endless spells worth taking? I don't see many people use them
5. Is Arkhan and Katakros a must take for higher point games? They seem amazing but I feel like it leaves little room for other units.

 

1. I'm not sure what you mean, it seems a lot of lists run a liege-kavalos. He's definitely a good unit, I feel.  I think maybe some of the more recent tournament lists ran Nagash and a whole mess of either guard or deathriders.

2. I've had really good success running a squad of six stalkers. They devastate anything they can get to.

3.  I think they are viable. I've seen lists that ran a large core of deathriders that seemed to do fairly good!

4. People usually don't seem to have space for them, I think. They are definitely good if you have the spare points!
5. Arkhan, I like his model but the times I used him he never felt very "powerful" if that makes sense. Katakros however, has been absolutely worth the points in my 2k games. I don't think you necessarily need him. But it's hard to argue with all his abilities and the 5 RDP he brings.

My 2k is

Petrifex
Katakros [General]
Liege-kavalos [god bone armor]

20 mortek guard
20 mortek guard
5 deathriders

Harvester
2 Crawlers

I haven't gotten to test this version out yet, but previous iterations did well for me, in my local meta at least!

As far as your 1k list goes, I think it will be fine. Stalkers or Harvesters are pretty devastating at low point ends.

[Finklelord]

Back again,

Had my first three games last Saturday with OBR and wow. They are pretty awesome. 

My List

Spoiler

 

Liege-Kavalos [Godbone Armor]

Boneshaper

20x Mortek Guard w/Swords

5x Deathriders w/Spears

3x Stalkers

Shrieker 

 

Friends List (from memory)

Spoiler

 

Arch-Revenant 

Drycha 

5 Spites

5 Spites

6 Hunters

(maybe more I can't remember all)

 

Overall I won two out of the three games and I am pretty impressed with the survivability of OBR. I'm hoping once my LGS opens back up I will be able to test again other opponents (More Sylvaneth, Stormcast, Seraphon, DoK, and Cites of Sigmar from what I remember). 

This weekend I'll be moving up to 1500 points and adding a Soulmason, Stalkers/Immortis Guard, and something else. Once Arkhan arrives and more Mortek Guard I'll bump up to 2000.

I just want to add my thoughts (as a newish player to AoS and a new player to OBR) about my 1000 point list.*

Liege-Kavalos: On paper he looks and sounds amazing (gorgeous model too), but I find him lacking in combat. It could be what I throw him into, but he doesn't have the damage output as it almost seems.

Boneshaper: A great support hero. He can't sling spells like a champ, but he was normally there to put out the endless spell T1 and then cast his powers T2+. Probably will run him until I get Arkhan. Just remember to keep him close to the Mortek Guard in case of a double turn. (Learned that the hard way)

Morek Guard: These guys are amazing. Surprised on their base size since they seemed bigger online. They are and will be the biggest damage dealer and biggest speed bump in the lists to come. 6 Hunters have guarded into a 10 man unit once and took 2 turns of combat to wipe them. 

Deathriders: Honestly I don't know about them. I sadly never got a charge off with them so their spears never came into play. They died usually T2 or T3 without doing much back. I want to test them more.

Stalkers: When I first read them they didn't really seem like much, but once I actually played them they chewed through whatever I put them on. Treelord? Gone. Dryads? Poof. Drycha? See ya later. 

Bone Shrieker- Annoyed my opponent more than anything. The buffs it provides is invaluable. 

Bone-Tithe Nexus- Honestly I forgot I had this on the table after T1 since I used a proxy at the time. BUT when I did remember it really helped with the -1 to hit on Hunters. 

Overall: I am really happy with the army and the list. Obviously it needs more testing but from a new player perspective I had a great time. 

*I only played Sylvaneth and probably will only play against them for awhile so take some of what I wrote with a grain of salt. I've not faced any heavy shooty lists or high magic yet.*

 

Thanks for reading! I'll be back after Saturday to share my thoughts (maybe get some pictures because I actually have models now😅)

[Benji]

On 5/29/2020 at 1:35 PM, Finklelord said:

A couple of quick questions before I start assembling and playing.

1. I see in a lot of 2000 point lists people don't use the Liege-Kavalos often. Is the reason for that because we have better options? 
2. Is it worth having a 6 man unit of Stalkers/Immortis Guard or stick to 2 groups of 3?
3. Is a heavy Deathrider army viable? Not looking to be super competitive. I enjoy their models a lot
4. Are the endless spells worth taking? I don't see many people use them
5. Is Arkhan and Katakros a must take for higher point games? They seem amazing but I feel like it leaves little room for other units.

I believe someone posted it a couple of pages back but I'm shooting for a full 1000 point painted army (just to get my bearings) then I'll expand into more units like the Crawlers and Arkhan. 

List as follows:

Let me know what you think! 

As always any advice or recommendations is always welcome! 

1. Liege has his place, mostly when you want to take two artifacts and in conjunction with the Boneshaper/Soul Mason, or if you run Nagash and need some cheap RDP generation. 

2. I've seen 6 stalkers run more often than 2x3, but both can work. Immortis Guard are not used too much so I can't talk about how people take them. I personally don't think stalkers are worth it as they do a similar role as Mortek (Do well in close combat), but they're cool models and kick ass in Warcry

3. Yes, I'm currently running Nagash, Liege, 1x15 Deathriders, 2x5 Deathriders and spellportal at 2k to some success. Deathriders don't require as much RDP as Mortek to be useful, so if you are running something like Nagash or a low RDP generating army, they are great. They're also fantastic as objective grabbers, and can do decent in combat even in a squad of 5. If you're going 5, get swords. If you're going 15 get spears. 

4. Bone Tithe is good in an army without Katakros or Nagash (Liege, Boneshaper, Soulmason mostly) to help with the +1 to hit. Nightmare Predator isn't terrible either. Carrion looks better on paper than on the battlefield, as you want to use it on something like Nagash or Arkhan to keep them topped up, but it's soul linked so you're hurting your own casting by doing so.

5. Nope, I'd argue that Arkhan isn't very good at all at the moment, and most competitive lists have dropped him in favor of Katakros+Soul Mason, Nagash+Liege or Liege+Boneshaper+Soulmason (or variations of these). There's an appeal to Katakros+Arkhan in being able to heal 4 of your units 6 models/wounds a turn, but honestly it's overkill as usually only 1-3 of your units need healing. 

 

Your 1k list looks solid! Liege will be great at those points, I would love to hear how it performs!

[Sception]

1.  I'd argue the Liege is almost compulsory in lists that don't run katakros for rdp efficiency and the precious +1 attack ca.  even with katakros it isn't bad.  In addition to the support hero role, a liege is also fast & solid enough to be a mobile element in and of itself, able to chase msu camping units off of objectives.

OBR casters, the main alternative for leaders/rdp generators lack useful command abilities, are less efficient at generating rdps for the points investment, and cannot operate on their own.  And while we have some decent spells in their lore, our wizards mostly lack the significant bonuses to casting rolls to reliably push spells past the unbinding rolls of many of the more magically oriented lists in the game.

Obviously Arkhan and Nagash are exceptions here, but Arkhan is really too fragile for his points even in petrifex to really be competitively viable, and while Nagash arguably is viable, he dominates your list & leads to very lopsided games with much more pronounced weaknesses than your more typical obr lists.

2. 6 stalkers does seem decent, but you've gotta take morteks, who are already fighty and way tougher, and/or riders who are faster, so stalkers which are kind of a mid way between the two have a hard time fitting imo.  Things might be different if you could take even one unit of them as battleline, but as is, well, they aren't bad, but I doubt one unit of three will do as much for you as a single harvester, or a liege if you're otherwise light on heroes, while 1x6 or 2x3 will have a hard time providing the kind of utility you can get from a pair of crawlers.

I want to stress, though, that they aren't bad.  OBR listsmaming is very tight and it's hard to fit even pretty good units like stalkers in if they aren't strictly critical to the game plan, but if you do make room for them they'll still put in some work.

Immortis are in a worse spot.  they're too expensive to use to protect heroes - too slow to keep up with a liege and you could get another liege for that price anyway.   our non-named casters aren't good or critical enough to justify the investment.  nagash and katakros are tough enough thay they shouldn't need them & expensive enough that you can't reasonably fit them even if you did.  Arkhan is about the only dude fragile enough to need them, & expensive enough to justify them, but at that point you're kind of throwing good points after bad.  plus they're dirt slow and one of Arkhan's best points is that huge flying move, so you're clipping his wings by sticking near them.

I don't want to overstate their badness, as they're also pretty tough with some non-negligible hitting power.  with two weapons and a double attack ca they also take buffs well, particularly +1 attack from a liege or katakros, which would synergize further with their double attavk ca, but the second attavk round being limited to their shields only takes a lot of wind out of their sails.  Plus, morteks are tougher and hittier and take buffs even better and you already have morteks because battleline.

As with stalkers, if you could take even one unit as battleline, or if their CA allowed then to fight again with all their melee weapons, then there might be something to talk about, but as is they're rather lackluster.  Worse than stalkers, which are good but just really hard to fit at 2k points when everything you need to take is already so expensive.

I run them anyway, because i love their thematics and aesthetics, but yeah, can't really recommend them.

3. Havent run nagash in obr yet so I mostly defer to others, but yeah he seems pretty viable, but the monstrous cost combined with everything else in the army being ecpensive makes it very hard to play for objectives, and there are melee hammers strong enough to down him even in petrifex.

4. Shrieker is good if you have the points for it, predator is decent but imo pendulum is better at the same job for only 10 points more.

Soul stealer's pretty bad as it only triggers on enemy casualties in its fairly small range, not casyalties to enemy units in that range.  most of the time, opponents will be able to just pick casualties from outside the aura to avoid the effect.  has some extra utility for nagash, in order to get line of sight on enemy heroes to machine gun them down with arcane bolts, but his flight and height make it difficult to hide from him already, and the bound mechanic cuts into the big guy's casting bonus, which is one of his main srlling points.

Other endless spells can be useful as well, so long as you have at least one caster to try them.  balewind is nice for a boneshaper or soulmason.  Nagash likes his spellportals.  I still like shackles even after the hefty points hike.  geminids is still pretty good.  bridge or cogs can help with OBR's relatively slow speed.  palisades can be useful for blocking firing lanes.

Because of the high cost of units & heroes in OBR, and our inability to use command points, you'll often be left with 50 to 100 points spare at the end of list construction with nothing to spend it on except for endless spells, so if you're running any wizards ar all then it's worth taking some time to familiarize yourself with the available options.

5. As already mentioned, I think Arkhan's too fragile for the points to be competitive, even in petrifex.  Like stalkers, I don't think he's terrible, just worse than ither options.  I run him anyway, but yeah.

 

My typical 2k list right now is:

Arkhan
Liege
Boneshaper
40 morteks
20 morteks
5 kavalos
3 immortis
crawler
shrieker

if i were trying to be competitive the immortis would definitely be another crawler.  I'd also trade out arkhan for a mason and either a harvester or just more morteks.  Or trade arkhan, the shaper, and the shrieker for katakros.

[Greasygeek]

Hi all

New to OBR here, so I have a quick question.

Dread Falchions for your Stalkers?

1. yes.

2. No.

3. It depends on the situation (please explain).

 

thanks.

[Benji]

7 hours ago, Sception said:

1.  I'd argue the Liege is almost compulsory in lists that don't run katakros for rdp efficiency and the precious +1 attack ca.  even with katakros it isn't bad.  In addition to the support hero role, a liege is also fast & solid enough to be a mobile element in and of itself, able to chase msu camping units off of objectives.

OBR casters, the main alternative for leaders/rdp generators lack useful command abilities, are less efficient at generating rdps for the points investment, and cannot operate on their own.  And while we have some decent spells in their lore, our wizards mostly lack the significant bonuses to casting rolls to reliably push spells past the unbinding rolls of many of the more magically oriented lists in the game.

Obviously Arkhan and Nagash are exceptions here, but Arkhan is really too fragile for his points even in petrifex to really be competitively viable, and while Nagash arguably is viable, he dominates your list & leads to very lopsided games with much more pronounced weaknesses than your more typical obr lists.

2. 6 stalkers does seem decent, but you've gotta take morteks, who are already fighty and way tougher, and/or riders who are faster, so stalkers which are kind of a mid way between the two have a hard time fitting imo.  Things might be different if you could take even one unit of them as battleline, but as is, well, they aren't bad, but I doubt one unit of three will do as much for you as a single harvester, or a liege if you're otherwise light on heroes, while 1x6 or 2x3 will have a hard time providing the kind of utility you can get from a pair of crawlers.

I want to stress, though, that they aren't bad.  OBR listsmaming is very tight and it's hard to fit even pretty good units like stalkers in if they aren't strictly critical to the game plan, but if you do make room for them they'll still put in some work.

Immortis are in a worse spot.  they're too expensive to use to protect heroes - too slow to keep up with a liege and you could get another liege for that price anyway.   our non-named casters aren't good or critical enough to justify the investment.  nagash and katakros are tough enough thay they shouldn't need them & expensive enough that you can't reasonably fit them even if you did.  Arkhan is about the only dude fragile enough to need them, & expensive enough to justify them, but at that point you're kind of throwing good points after bad.  plus they're dirt slow and one of Arkhan's best points is that huge flying move, so you're clipping his wings by sticking near them.

I don't want to overstate their badness, as they're also pretty tough with some non-negligible hitting power.  with two weapons and a double attack ca they also take buffs well, particularly +1 attack from a liege or katakros, which would synergize further with their double attavk ca, but the second attavk round being limited to their shields only takes a lot of wind out of their sails.  Plus, morteks are tougher and hittier and take buffs even better and you already have morteks because battleline.

As with stalkers, if you could take even one unit as battleline, or if their CA allowed then to fight again with all their melee weapons, then there might be something to talk about, but as is they're rather lackluster.  Worse than stalkers, which are good but just really hard to fit at 2k points when everything you need to take is already so expensive.

I run them anyway, because i love their thematics and aesthetics, but yeah, can't really recommend them.

3. Havent run nagash in obr yet so I mostly defer to others, but yeah he seems pretty viable, but the monstrous cost combined with everything else in the army being ecpensive makes it very hard to play for objectives, and there are melee hammers strong enough to down him even in petrifex.

4. Shrieker is good if you have the points for it, predator is decent but imo pendulum is better at the same job for only 10 points more.

Soul stealer's pretty bad as it only triggers on enemy casualties in its fairly small range, not casyalties to enemy units in that range.  most of the time, opponents will be able to just pick casualties from outside the aura to avoid the effect.  has some extra utility for nagash, in order to get line of sight on enemy heroes to machine gun them down with arcane bolts, but his flight and height make it difficult to hide from him already, and the bound mechanic cuts into the big guy's casting bonus, which is one of his main srlling points.

Other endless spells can be useful as well, so long as you have at least one caster to try them.  balewind is nice for a boneshaper or soulmason.  Nagash likes his spellportals.  I still like shackles even after the hefty points hike.  geminids is still pretty good.  bridge or cogs can help with OBR's relatively slow speed.  palisades can be useful for blocking firing lanes.

Because of the high cost of units & heroes in OBR, and our inability to use command points, you'll often be left with 50 to 100 points spare at the end of list construction with nothing to spend it on except for endless spells, so if you're running any wizards ar all then it's worth taking some time to familiarize yourself with the available options.

5. As already mentioned, I think Arkhan's too fragile for the points to be competitive, even in petrifex.  Like stalkers, I don't think he's terrible, just worse than ither options.  I run him anyway, but yeah.

 

My typical 2k list right now is:

Arkhan
Liege
Boneshaper
40 morteks
20 morteks
5 kavalos
3 immortis
crawler
shrieker

if i were trying to be competitive the immortis would definitely be another crawler.  I'd also trade out arkhan for a mason and either a harvester or just more morteks.  Or trade arkhan, the shaper, and the shrieker for katakros.

1. I ran Liege/Katakros for a while and ended up swapping the Liege for a Soul Mason. The Liege is redundant in that list, he shouldn't need to be giving something +1 attack unless Katakros is lagging behind, in which I would say Katakros isn't being used properly. Soulmason gives Soul Guide and the ability to unbind endless spells, which I found important as players were using them to block my slow mortek's movement.

The boneshaper's ability is fantastic for its cost and the soulmason is actually a pretty decent caster (getting 2+ spells each turn, and soul guide is amazing). Both have a place in competitive lists.

Nagash is a large chunk of your list, but he does a lot. His command ability makes your army just stronger in every way. 8 spells is a lot of damage (Arcane Bolt machine gun does a ton of mortals to something within 18") and his combat profile will do a lot of damage. If you get protection of Nagash off, he won't die that turn, and if you don't get it off, well you know before the movement phase and can play safer with him. Yes things can kill him, but you should be able to play around those units easily enough with 9" movement.

2. Stalkers have a place in lists, especially against armies like Orruk. I agree that Crawlers and Harvesters make that 200 point slot competitive, but Crawlers and Harvesters have problems of their own as well. Crawlers are feast or famine, and if you have some bad dice rolls, or they make some saves, they do nothing. Harvesters are a difficult unit to run as you need to play conservative to avoid mortek charging out of range of them, which means your slow army stays slow, and you

3. Give him a try, you can play him smart enough that he doesn't die, and whilst you run less units with Nagash. I find Nagash lists a bit more difficult to play, but I think the ceiling is higher as well, in that a great player piloting a Nagash list will accomplish more than he/she would with a standard list.

4. Pendulum doesn't have the control that Nightmare has, it might do more damage but Nightmare is the better endless spell as your opponent cannot plan for it's movement like he can Pendulum.

I would never put the boneshaper or soulmason on a balewind, they need to be moving (especially the boneshaper) and they get nothing out of the extra 6 inch range on their spells.

If your lists are hitting 50-100 points leftover, I'd consider moving some things around for more units. Mortek and Deathriders are priced so that you should be able to hit pretty much right on 2k if you move some things around. If you have 120 points you can pick up Shield Corps and get another artifact which adds a lot to your army. 

 

2 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

Hi all

New to OBR here, so I have a quick question.

Dread Falchions for your Stalkers?

1. yes.

2. No.

3. It depends on the situation (please explain).

 

thanks.

On paper the Spirit Blades are better, especially as you can get them to Rend -2 Damage 2 with their ability. My stalkers have the Falchions as the damage output difference isn't massive, Rend -3 is good for the mirror (5+ Save with Shield wall saves a lot more than 6+) and because I play Warcry where they're good, and I don't want to buy a ton of extra models