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Still-young

AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

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7 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

My advice would be to split the 40 man unit into 2x20. As petrifex Morteks are plenty tough and a 40 man unit will just result in a lot of models not being able to fight and also less board presence. With 20/20/10 you can get the shield corps battalion instead of the Ballistari one, which is far more useful i find.

You could also consider to give godbone armor to your boneshaper instead (as he needs to be rather close to the action) and make him more durable and give the Liege Kavalos the Helm of the Ordained for a +1 to hit bubble within 12" of him. He has the speed to position it decently and make for a mini katakros. The guard blobs can handle well enough with the wizard support, so the Kavalos is really useful with the deahtriders, buffing them with the +1 hit bubble, +1 attack command and then the petrifex +1 rend and they will oblitarate whatever they charge and can also do some sneaky pile ins potentially.

Splitting the 40 block and swapping for the shield-corps would make it 100 points more expensive. Even removing the endless spells it still brings it to 2020 (very fitting given the new year) 

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1 hour ago, Heijoshin said:

Splitting the 40 block and swapping for the shield-corps would make it 100 points more expensive. Even removing the endless spells it still brings it to 2020 (very fitting given the new year) 

That is true. Blobs of 40 seem to be overkill though, so shuffling stuff around would probably perform better. All the opponent needs to do is tie up those 40 guys, which will make it incredibly hard for the list to grab objectives. A couple of skink units or similar can lock down a huge part of that army, as most points are invested in those guards, catapults and slow wizard heroes.

Many battleplans will be very difficult, such as battle for the pass, the oppoenent just needs to get rid of the riders and the backline will be pretty much safe at least until battleround 4 or such. Duality of Death you will have to commit the 40 to one side of the board, this will create a weak flank. Scorched earth, also difficult, as there are not really any mobility to get around to raze objectives in opponent territory and with so many points invested in catapults, you also need to guard those. Shifting objectives and relocation orb will also be sort of difficult. 

I usually being at least 2 decently fast units in my lists for this reason, while not as durable, the riders are just so much faster and flexible, than having multiple anvil units walking around I find. 

It is difficult balancing a 2 catapult list I think. It will probably powerform very well in certain battleplans and with some luck, but will suffer a lot in other and against certain matchups. With a minimum range catapults are very vulnerable to being tied up, but OBR being so expensive, can hardly afford to dedicated major forces to protect them, as this is after all in matched play at least an obectives based game.  My own setup if running with 2 crawlers would probably look like this:

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Petrifex Elite
Liege-Kavalos (200)
- General
- Trait: Mighty Archaeossian
- Artefact: Helm of the Ordained
Mortisan Soulmason (140)
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
- Artefact: Godbone Armour
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
10 x Mortek Guard (130)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Mortek Crawler (200)
Mortek Crawler (200)
Kavalos Lance (120)
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)
Soulstealer Carrion (20)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 111

The battalion for crawlers seem sort of pointless, as the major issue is not getting them tied up rather than them being damaged. I'd use the 10 mortek to protect them as needed depending on scenario and opponent, making sure to check for the opponents option for any deep strikes or teleport shenanigans. 

20 Mortek and a harvester is plenty hard as an anvil and is sufficient to frutrate most opponents to tears as is. 2 units of Kavalos and a Liege with battalion rules, will ensure both your liege and any nearby kavalos are unable to be tied down, and will greatly improve the ability to win the scenarios mentioned earlier for example.

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Finished my Stalkers, building the Falchions despite their bad math. They just look too cool. 

stalker.jpg

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From what I can tell the Falchions a tiny bit better in some situations and a bit worse in others than the twinswords. Though the maths is so close that I don't think it makes a huge difference in reality. That said I can only see them potentially improving over time and as a part of the kit I figure that whilst in the 1st Ossiach Battletome they are nothing special, they could improve over time so having them now is a good insurance for the future.

 

Really like the shot of copper/amber gold on your swords - makes them stand out well. 

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5 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

I am thinking  Arkhan might not be a bad choice, as he does bring a lot for his points, with petrifex and Katakros buffs he is a force himself to fear in combat and decently durable too, while also providing those nice heals along with Katakros to provide som oppressive staying power. As the list is weak against Mortal wounds, having access to 3 unbinds with +2 will really help as well.

While Mortek does a LOT of damage especially as petrifex, the Stalkers do even more. The next choice would be 2 harvesters instead of Stalkers, as they also do a lot of damage, while giving even more sustain, they are less effective going of on their own though and the list is somewhat lacking in board presence, so having the stalkers might be best, as durability is not really the issue, and nothing comes close to the output of stalkers in precision stance.

This is the same list I've been considering running for the most part. I pretty much shelved my Kavalos but I feel they would be more beneficial than just 10 Mortek + an Endless Spell.. and running Katakros + Arkhan allows you to return up to 2 Deathriders back to a unit which is amazing.

I see this list a lot in tournaments but they always bring 2 Crawlers. I think I'm going to experiment between 6 Stalkers and 1 Crawler + 1 Harvester... but it will be hard to justify as I always have the 6 Stalkers go off and do their own thing which they are quite good at.

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14 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

This is the same list I've been considering running for the most part. I pretty much shelved my Kavalos but I feel they would be more beneficial than just 10 Mortek + an Endless Spell.. and running Katakros + Arkhan allows you to return up to 2 Deathriders back to a unit which is amazing.

I see this list a lot in tournaments but they always bring 2 Crawlers. I think I'm going to experiment between 6 Stalkers and 1 Crawler + 1 Harvester... but it will be hard to justify as I always have the 6 Stalkers go off and do their own thing which they are quite good at.

After having gotten my own crawlers and played them, I do not really find them all that great. They look cool and can be fun and give you something to do in the shooting phase, but they are very vulnerable to being tied up in an army with no cheap options to screen them. They can easily whiff completely and the 0 rend is really a detriment here. I actually expect as more Reapers show up in the meta, the army will effectively push their own units out of the meta, as they are most likely to do nothing against an opposing petrifex army.

For the same points you can get a unit of stalkers, which are not ranged obviously but they are decently fast and mobile, they hit MUCH harder, they can tie up units and create board presence and actually capture objectives. 

There is value in the crawlers as being the only thing which can threaten anything in the opponents backline and make them think twice, which creates some psychological effect, but crafty opponents will tie them up or ignore them alltogether, as they are not all that likely to earn home their points in damage alone.

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7 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Having quite a few games under the belt now, I think in terms of strongest list, as in bring to tournaments in top competetive play and never to your friends, is a Katakros and guard spam list, including stalkers.

I am thinking  Arkhan might not be a bad choice, as he does bring a lot for his points, with petrifex and Katakros buffs he is a force himself to fear in combat and decently durable too, while also providing those nice heals along with Katakros to provide som oppressive staying power. As the list is weak against Mortal wounds, having access to 3 unbinds with +2 will really help as well.

While Mortek does a LOT of damage especially as petrifex, the Stalkers do even more. The next choice would be 2 harvesters instead of Stalkers, as they also do a lot of damage, while giving even more sustain, they are less effective going of on their own though and the list is somewhat lacking in board presence, so having the stalkers might be best, as durability is not really the issue, and nothing comes close to the output of stalkers in precision stance.

Do not ever bring this list in a friendly game ;)

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Petrifex Elite
Katakros, Mortarch of the Necropolis (500)
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
6 x Necropolis Stalkers (400)
Nightmare Predator (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110

I do like this list a lot, I may give it a try sometime at my store as just a "let's bring some strong lists and smash them together" day haha.

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24 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

They can easily whiff completely and the 0 rend is really a detriment here.

I mean, this is why I stopped using mine after 2-3 games really. I killed 2 Sorceress' in 1 turn but the next few games they did nothing; either by an opponent making all their saves or by me not having the Soulmason spell to RR 1's and rolling 3 of them. I had a unit of Tree-Rev's keep it tied up too.. so I don't really see the value in it anymore unless I'm playing someone unfamiliar with the army, but lets be honest.. that isn't happening at a major tournament and I wouldn't want to do that against a new player.

6 Stalkers have absolutely obliterated everything I've ran them into so far and in my most recent batrep proved to be a deciding factor as their 9" move with the CA and being able to RR charges allowed them to get in and clear a Drycha off an objective all on their own.. combining that with Katakros' massive +1 hit bubble and suddenly I don't need to have them be deployed near the Shrieker. Combine that with the 5 Kavalos and the list sits pretty well in terms of board coverage.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

I mean, this is why I stopped using mine after 2-3 games really. I killed 2 Sorceress' in 1 turn but the next few games they did nothing; either by an opponent making all their saves or by me not having the Soulmason spell to RR 1's and rolling 3 of them. I had a unit of Tree-Rev's keep it tied up too.. so I don't really see the value in it anymore unless I'm playing someone unfamiliar with the army, but lets be honest.. that isn't happening at a major tournament and I wouldn't want to do that against a new player.

6 Stalkers have absolutely obliterated everything I've ran them into so far and in my most recent batrep proved to be a deciding factor as their 9" move with the CA and being able to RR charges allowed them to get in and clear a Drycha off an objective all on their own.. combining that with Katakros' massive +1 hit bubble and suddenly I don't need to have them be deployed near the Shrieker. Combine that with the 5 Kavalos and the list sits pretty well in terms of board coverage.

I'm bringing six stalkers against my frequent Ogor opponent, and i'm really hoping to give him a shock with how much damage those stalkers bring. But yeah, my catapult has largely acted as a DISTRACTION CARNIFEX for my opponents

Edited by Arcian
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5 hours ago, Overread said:

From what I can tell the Falchions a tiny bit better in some situations and a bit worse in others than the twinswords. Though the maths is so close that I don't think it makes a huge difference in reality.

Spirit Blades outperform Dread Falchions in every scenario if you use Precision Aspect, by up to 50% more damage. The only time Falchions do better is when you use Blade-parry Aspect for the defensive buff, and the difference isn't as large as the difference in Precision.

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Hi guys I am thinking about starting warhammer aos and probably I will choose the bonereaper. Are they competitive right now ? Which is the most competitive list at the moment for them ? 

Thanks a lot

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AFAIK, the bony boys are strong, at or near top tier. There is no single 'best' list for them. They have great internal balance (excepting petrifex) between the units, and there's a lot of different ways to play them. There are a few 'better' selections (swords>spears, etc) bet these differences are typically fairly small. 

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Posted (edited)

Idk, I asked the best list few pages ago. No-one clearly answered, but I've gathered it's Petrifex: Katakros or Liege-K+Boneshaper, Soulmason, Boneshaper, 60 Mortek Guard, 6 Stalkers, few spells. Something like that..adjust to taste. 

Edited by marke

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5 hours ago, Nightwynd said:

There is no single 'best' list for them.

9 hours ago, Ghiggio said:

Which is the most competitive list at the moment for them ? 

There is no 'best list' for any faction in my opinion. The meta is ever changing and what is good now likely won't be in a month or two.. the Tzeentch and KO tome will likely shake things up a lot, especially for OBR (heavy magic and shooting are things we don't like). A #1 list is not going to take anyone to the top table on it's own.

I usually just advise people to look at the BCP player app or tabletop.to and see what people are using at the 20+ player tournaments and really learn to analyze the list and what they played against. Currently you see some common themes; PE (of course), 1x6 Stalkers or 1-2 Crawlers\1-2 Harvesters with a core of 50-60 Mortek Guard. Some are bringing Katrakros + a couple small heroes or even Katakros + Arkhan.. or even just a Liege, Mason and 2 Boneshapers. Battalions optional. 
On the other side, Soulreaper, Vokmortian and Morghasts are not seen really and Nagash can have some standout victories but typically can't carry anyone to the #1 spot. To I think Nightwynd largely summed it up

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Hobby update! 🎲🎨

Painted up the Liege tonight! Not far from 1k painted now. 

20200104_005659.jpg

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On 1/2/2020 at 9:26 AM, Scurvydog said:

Having quite a few games under the belt now, I think in terms of strongest list, as in bring to tournaments in top competetive play and never to your friends, is a Katakros and guard spam list, including stalkers.

I am thinking  Arkhan might not be a bad choice, as he does bring a lot for his points, with petrifex and Katakros buffs he is a force himself to fear in combat and decently durable too, while also providing those nice heals along with Katakros to provide som oppressive staying power. As the list is weak against Mortal wounds, having access to 3 unbinds with +2 will really help as well.

While Mortek does a LOT of damage especially as petrifex, the Stalkers do even more. The next choice would be 2 harvesters instead of Stalkers, as they also do a lot of damage, while giving even more sustain, they are less effective going of on their own though and the list is somewhat lacking in board presence, so having the stalkers might be best, as durability is not really the issue, and nothing comes close to the output of stalkers in precision stance.

Do not ever bring this list in a friendly game ;)

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Petrifex Elite
Katakros, Mortarch of the Necropolis (500)
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
6 x Necropolis Stalkers (400)
Nightmare Predator (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110

It is a very nice list, the only problem is that since both leader are named you cannot assign the artifact and general trait to them. Or I am wrong?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Ghiggio said:

It is a very nice list, the only problem is that since both leader are named you cannot assign the artifact and general trait to them. Or I am wrong?

No, you cannot... but that isn't really a problem as the benefit of them does not outweigh the inherent power of Katakros or Arkhan. The list is still legal, if that's what you're asking.

Edited by Gwendar

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Hey folks, I've been using a fairly basic Katakros+Aegis+Shield Corp list as it's what I've had painted, and I'm looking to work towards a few other things. In addition to trying out @Gwendar's 60 Mortek+6 Stalker list, I'm hoping to get something going for the Crematorians. How does something like this look?

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Crematorians
Liege-Kavalos (200)
- Artefact: Helm of the Ordained
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
Mortisan Soulmason (140)
- Artefact: Searing Blade
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Mortek Shield-corps (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400

 

I threw the Crematorian artifact on the Soulmason to get the +1 to hit on the Liege, figured Arkhan was both a good aggressive caster and the most points-efficient fixed healing we get, and will be giving the harvesters the bludgeons. Please let me know your thoughts.

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2 hours ago, TheToastman said:

Hey folks, I've been using a fairly basic Katakros+Aegis+Shield Corp list as it's what I've had painted, and I'm looking to work towards a few other things. In addition to trying out @Gwendar's 60 Mortek+6 Stalker list, I'm hoping to get something going for the Crematorians. How does something like this look?

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Crematorians
Liege-Kavalos (200)
- Artefact: Helm of the Ordained
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
Mortisan Soulmason (140)
- Artefact: Searing Blade
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Gothizzar Harvester (200)
Mortek Shield-corps (120)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400

 

I threw the Crematorian artifact on the Soulmason to get the +1 to hit on the Liege, figured Arkhan was both a good aggressive caster and the most points-efficient fixed healing we get, and will be giving the harvesters the bludgeons. Please let me know your thoughts.


It looks like a great start to a crematorian’s list. My guess is that you want to make use of the MW from exploding mortek guard and use the harvesters/arkhan to regen models? 
 

if so, imo I think Arkhan is too much for healing/spell casting; two harvesters places between the three 20 man units evenly and a Boneshaper would be a better option. You can also add a Shrieker endless spell for the +1 to hit.  That would give you room to give your Kavalos the Searing Blade, allowing your Soulmason to take the Gothizzar Cartouche for +1 to wound, making your front line +1 to hit and wound. 
 

This would leave you with 200 points to spare, giving some flexibility on what to add. 

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Quick discussion. Mainly aimed at @Gwendar but anyone can chime in. What are the pros and cons of running 1X6 Stalkers vs. 2X3?
So far I have only used 1X3 [A) Cause its all I own til my next shipment arrives and B) I havent gotten above 1500 point games] and they have annihilated anything they come into contact with already. I've deleted gluttons, blood/skull crushers, and a terrorgheist or two not to mention the infantry blobs. I usually always swing with them first so on my turn I Precision them and on opponent's turn when they try to hit them hard I Blade-parry and maybe only lose one guy. Are the extra bodies worth it? COuld we not spread our threat on the board a bit more? 

Trust me I see the viability of it and definitely will be running 1X6. Good threat range, extra wounds, single target to spend RDP on, etc. Just wanted to spark a bit of discussion.

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47 minutes ago, Bryan I Guess said:

Quick discussion. Mainly aimed at @Gwendar but anyone can chime in. What are the pros and cons of running 1X6 Stalkers vs. 2X3?
So far I have only used 1X3 [A) Cause its all I own til my next shipment arrives and B) I havent gotten above 1500 point games] and they have annihilated anything they come into contact with already. I've deleted gluttons, blood/skull crushers, and a terrorgheist or two not to mention the infantry blobs. I usually always swing with them first so on my turn I Precision them and on opponent's turn when they try to hit them hard I Blade-parry and maybe only lose one guy. Are the extra bodies worth it? COuld we not spread our threat on the board a bit more? 

Trust me I see the viability of it and definitely will be running 1X6. Good threat range, extra wounds, single target to spend RDP on, etc. Just wanted to spark a bit of discussion.

If you can get just 3 stalkers in and hit at full manpower they will of course do a lot of damage. Getting a unit of 6 however makes them more of a threat in various ways.

Pros:

- Command abilities affect more models/discipline efficiency

- Makes them far more dangerous to charge. 3 You can cripple and more "safely" charge, but 6 will probably result in a costly trade

- Activation wars, with reapers having no access to first or last strikes, being efficient about unit activation is important, so larger units makes each activation count for more.

Cons:

- Harder to maneuver a large unit of big guys

- More vulnerable to getting tied down (although Stalkers rarely will be for long...)

- debuffs/spells etc. will as with the pro, also affect a larger amount of models if the enemy has a lot of tools to hinder or target entire units

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6 hours ago, Bryan I Guess said:

Quick discussion. Mainly aimed at @Gwendar but anyone can chime in. What are the pros and cons of running 1X6 Stalkers vs. 2X3?

Yeah, @Scurvydog pretty much summed it up perfectly. Sure you could make a case for board presence, but I think having 3x20 Mortek is generally enough for that and the Stalkers in a bigger unit of 6 work well on their own.

A unit of 3 has the potential to get wiped off by another hammer/shooting easier, so you're giving them a bit more staying power to actually do something as well.

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Hey @Gwendar , you mentioned something earlier about a Nagash list. How has he been going for you? Ive been using him alongside a Liege, 2x 20 Mortek and 10x Deathriders. Pretty awesome when using realm spells

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1 hour ago, ArgyBargy said:

Hey @Gwendar , you mentioned something earlier about a Nagash list. How has he been going for you? Ive been using him alongside a Liege, 2x 20 Mortek and 10x Deathriders. Pretty awesome when using realm spells

Only used it once so far and did a batrep on it. It went fine, though I'm not convinced it works from a competitive standpoint.. could probably go even.

I just run Nagash, 3x20 Mortek and 6 Stalkers. Like I said, it works well enough but I've only played it against Sylvaneth and I feel against many other armies it could potentially crumble with the low RDP which this army really hinges on.

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So since Fyreslayers and us do alot of the same things how do yall handle them. The fight first and double double attack from 20 HGB seems pretty rough especially since they are now running 2 blocks of pain. I'm not running any crawlers mainly due to they are a pain to fly with.

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