AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Sception]

4 minutes ago, Izikail said:

Immortis who take wounds dont get a save? Sad, does that also mean that for there death saves and such that they have to save against the D not the number of wounds, so three saves against one hit from a D3 weapon?

they bodyguard rules transfer wounds as they are allocated, which is after armor saves, but before shrugs like deatheless minions.  The character will get their armor save before rolling to pass any unsaved wounds through.

[TheKingInYellow]

1 minute ago, Sception said:

Looks nice.  imo bludgeons are better than sickles on the harvester.  Additionally, I'd take a boneshaper instead of the soulmasin - healing is too important.  That also frees up 10 points to upgrade the soulstealer to a shrieker, which imo is the better dpel for your support caster to cast, and I don't generally like to cast soulbound spells w/arkhan since they eat away at his important casting bonus.

 

Another thing to consider is combining the morteks into one big unit, and splitting the riders into 2 of 5.  Consolidates your infantry power, maximizes individual buffs, and lets you be more flexible with your faster units.  Also frees up 80 points, which you could use for more endless spells, or drop the one you already have for the ballistari formation, assuming you've also traded the mason for a shaper, to get another RD point a turn, and protect your catapults.

I liked the Mason to get Soul-Guide on the Catapults, which is where I imagine he'll be parked.  I could potentially drop the Harvester and run both casters?  Drop to one unit of 30 Guard, split the Deathriders like you suggested...  

I love the fact that this army doesn't have one obvious build!

[Izikail]

4 minutes ago, PraetorDragoon said:

As always -> Roll to hit -> roll to wound -> roll save -> calculate damage -> Allocate Wounds -> Immortis Intercept step (if applicable) -> roll to negate wounds (if any)

Ok, makes sens, makes me sad however, but there was still a save, just not there slightly better one

[Arcian]

11 minutes ago, Sception said:

*snip*

You seem pretty knowledgeable if i can pick your brain for a moment? I was wondering if this would be a good starting point for a 1k list

Petrifex Elite

Liege Kavalos - 200 

BoneShaper (Empower Nadirite Weapons) - 130 

Soulreaper (Reinforce Battle-shields / Or maybe Drain Vitality) - 120

Mortek Guard 1x20 swords - 260

Mortek Guard 1x20 swords - 260

Endless Spell Bone-tithe Shrieker - 30

1000/1000

[GeneralZero]

To start OBR, I'd like to go to the cheapest route, yet efficient. I already have 3 halves of FoB box, and arkhan. I know that I'll grab a liege kavalos (love it and he's the best compliment to this knid of army).

(actual list looks like Arkhan 3 immortis 6 stalker some Morghast 3*10 guards kavalos  around 1730pts)

My actual question is about the scenery and the endless spells.

- Are they a "must have"? if yes which one? Or can I play without them efficiently.

- Same question for the scenery (but I suspect that as a free bonus, it is a "must have", isn't it?)

This is to decide my next buy (in addition to kavalos).

[relic456]

4 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

My actual question is about the scenery and the endless spells.

- Are they a "must have"? if yes which one? Or can I play without them efficiently.

- Same question for the scenery (but I suspect that as a free bonus, it is a "must have", isn't it?)

Scenery I'd say is a must have, it's free and is probably one of the best faction specific terrain pieces in the game.

The shrieker and the carrion bird are getting a lot of attention, but I think all three are pretty good.  I think it's worth getting the box, at least one will probably see regular play. Plus they're super cheap points wise and can fill in those weird gaps where you have less than 100 points available.

[Sception]

2 hours ago, Arcian said:

You seem pretty knowledgeable if i can pick your brain for a moment? I was wondering if this would be a good starting point for a 1k list

Petrifex Elite

Liege Kavalos - 200 

BoneShaper (Empower Nadirite Weapons) - 130 

Soulreaper (Reinforce Battle-shields / Or maybe Drain Vitality) - 120

Mortek Guard 1x20 swords - 260

Mortek Guard 1x20 swords - 260

Endless Spell Bone-tithe Shrieker - 30

1000/1000

First of all, take everything I say with a grain of salt.  I read a fair bit, and listen to some podcasts, but I do not have the sort of actual competitive play experience under my belt that would make me any kind of actual authority in my own right.  Instead, I'd recommend checking out the 'Just Saying' podcast.  Their recent overview of the OBR army book is the source of most of my opinions on competitive OBR, though they do get some things wrong, such as how the Ivory Host trait works - not that it matters because even with my understanding how the trait actually works it's still not very good and in any event it's not relevant to this list, which is of course petrifex, as basically every competitively minded OBR list should be.

Disclaimers out of the way, your list looks good for a 1000 point starting force, at least to me.  2x20 morteks feels like a good number for that points value, and the bone tithe shrieker is always good. The soulreaper isn't the best hero, a second bone shaper would be better, but you don't have the points for a 1 for 1 swap without changing something else.

The big thing is the Liege Kavalos.  I really like the Liege, and rate it higher than the Just Saying folks do, but even so it's very pricey for 1k points, especially with two other heroes already.  Personally, I think you might get more mileage out of replacing it with a crawler.  RD points would be an issue, but you could mitigate that by giving the Reaper the d3 RD spell, treating it like sort of an infantry field captain.  Maybe even make it the general to pull some heat of the Shaper.

I'd add the Liege back in at higher points, along with another crawler, another shaper (probably replacing the reaper), maybe a mason, maybe some cavalry, definitely more & bigger mortek units, maybe one or two of the battalions that use units you're already taking anyway.

But that's all at higher points.   At 1k you have to be really picky.

Edited November 5, 2019 by Sception

[Arcian]

6 minutes ago, Sception said:

First of all, take everything I say with a grain of salt.  I read a fair bit, and listen to some podcasts, but I do not have the sort of actual competitive play experience under my belt that would make me any kind of actual authority in my own right.  Instead, I'd recommend checking out the 'Just Saying' podcast.  Their recent overview of the OBR army book is the source of most of my opinions on competitive OBR, though they do get some things wrong, such as how the Ivory Host trait works - not that it matters because even with my understanding how the trait actually works it's still not very good and in any event it's not relevant to this list, which is of course petrifex, as basically every competitively minded OBR list should be.

Disclaimers out of the way, your list looks good for a 1000 point starting force, at least to me.  2x20 morteks feels like a good number for that points value, and the bone tithe shrieker is always good. The soulreaper isn't the best hero, a second bone shaper would be better, but you don't have the points for a 1 for 1 swap without changing something else.

The big thing is the Liege Kavalos.  I really like the Liege, and rate it higher than the Just Saying folks do, but even so it's very pricey for 1k points, especially with two other heroes already.  Personally, I think you might get more mileage out of replacing it with a crawler.  RD points would be an issue, but you could mitigate that by giving the Reaper the d3 RD spell, treating it like sort of an infantry field captain.  Maybe even make it the general to pull some heat of the Shaper.

I'd add the Liege back in at higher points, along with another crawler, another shaper (probably replacing the reaper), maybe a mason, maybe some cavalry, definitely more & bigger mortek units.

How would you feel about maybe instead of the liege doing the harvester? Or do you think the crawler would in general just be better?

edit: Also for 2k  i was thinking of 3x20 mortek guard units as my "core"

Edited November 5, 2019 by Arcian

[Sception]

I do think the crawler would in general just be better, but I do also like the harvester, particularly in the trident formation (which also helps justify the reaper's existence, though it's too pricey for this points value), or in Crematorians, who want all the recursion they can get.  For your petrifex list in particular I'd rate the Liege and the Harvester about evenly, both perfectly good and acceptable uses of 200 points.  For the record I'd rate a unit of stalkers about the same and a unit of Immortis not too far behind.  Crawler's dang impressive, though, and does things that the morteks can't just do on their own.

Like, the harvester's good, and kills things, and can bring some morteks back, but if you wanted more morteks you could have just taken 10 more morteks for 70 points cheaper and they'd be near about as if not even more killy, especially when you throw the petrifex CA on them for rend -2 swords.  And the liege can give a unit of 20 morteks 20 more attacks for an RD point, but again for 70 points less you could take 10 more morteks and have 20 more attacks without spending any RD points.  Granted, you can use the liege on multiple units, and I think that definitely adds up especially when you move past 1k points, but at 1k points it could be argued that the extra wounds and bodies on objective capturing infantry would go further.

The crawler does something the Morteks just can't do - removing large numbers of chaff at a distance, and picking off support heroes hiding behind enemy lines.  That's a big deal, and its something almost nothing else in the army can really do.  Again, some variant & gimmick lists might put other stuff first - cavalry lists want that liege to be your first model, crematorians will reach for a harvester before a crawler, Nagash lists likely won't have spare points for any other big stuff, etc.  But if you're trying to put together a typical-of-the-faction, take-all-comers type list that highlights the strongest and most efficient and most tactically useful elements of the OBR then I do think the Crawler wants to be there right from the start.

[Arcian]

2 minutes ago, Sception said:

*snip*

Well you sold it for me, i'll update my order with my local shop and grab one of those fancy crawlers! Then i'll look towards building up to a 2k list in a near future. Thanks for your insight, it's been super helpful!

Edited November 5, 2019 by Arcian

[nine7six]

Sorry if it’s been asked, are people putting the special weapon on the hekatos for their mortek guard? Just like liberator last and the hammer?

[Arcian]

2 minutes ago, nine7six said:

Sorry if it’s been asked, are people putting the special weapon on the hekatos for their mortek guard? Just like liberator last and the hammer?

So far i think the idea is to not put the weapon on your hekatos since you'll want him in the middle of your guard blocks to better make use of his RD abilities

[TheKingInYellow]

Can someone spell out the order of saves when an Immortis uses Soulbound Protector to protect a hero?

Is it hit -> wound -> hero saves -> Soulbound Protector roll -> Immortis saves or does the hero not get to save first?

 

edit:  Same as Nagash, nevermind.  Just a brainfart.

Edited November 5, 2019 by TheKingInYellow

[Mohawk_Monkey]

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers

 - Mortal Realm: Shyish
 - Legion: Petrifex Elite

LEADERS
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)

Liege-Kavalos (200)- General- Command Trait : Mighty Archaeossian- Artefact : Helm of the Ordained

Mortisan Boneshaper (130)- Lore of Mortisans : Reinforce Battle-shields

Mortisan Soulmason (140)- Artefact : Godbone Armour- Lore of Mortisans : Empower Nadirite Weapons
 

UNITS
20 x Mortek Guard (260)- Nadirite Blade and Shield

5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)- Nadirite Blade and Shield

5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)- Nadirite Blade and Shield

BEHEMOTHS

Gothizzar Harvester (200) bludgeons

Crawler (200)

BATTALIONS
Kavalos Lance (120)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)

7 Drop with 6RDP+9D6 per battle round

Plenty of things to do. i've toyed with swapping the crawler for a unit of 40x mortek instead of 20 + the carrion endless spell.  I really like the harvester model. Hated it at first, but once it was up on the GW store and i could spin it 360 I changed my mind quite quickly. The crawler is solid but with the limited unit count and deathriders out front it'll be real easy to get round the back of it.  I've been procrastinating on my Arkhan for months and really want to use him too. reckon having 40 guard and no crawler might give more options as it'll be easier to field a 1k list with 40 morteks on hand rather than 20. 

The immortis guard/ stalkers look fun but im not convinced when you compare their mobility to riders and the difficulty in bringing them back. Also i've been wanting a decent mounted skellybob unit for flippin ages. 

[Sception]

11 minutes ago, TheKingInYellow said:

Can someone spell out the order of saves when an Immortis uses Soulbound Protector to protect a hero?

Is it hit -> wound -> hero saves -> Soulbound Protector roll -> Immortis saves or does the hero not get to save first?

It goes like this:

hit -> wound -> hero's armor save -> soulbound protector roll -> deathless warriors

The Immortis unit does not get to use their armor save when using the soulbound protector rule to take wounds directed at the hero.  The soulbound protector rule triggers on allocating wounds to the hero, and wounds are allocated only after any armor saves have already been rolled.

[TheKingInYellow]

1 minute ago, Sception said:

It goes like this:

hit -> wound -> hero's armor save -> soulbound protector roll -> deathless warriors

The Immortis unit does not get to use their armor save when using the soulbound protector rule to take wounds directed at the hero.  The soulbound protector rule triggers on allocating wounds to the hero, and wounds are allocated only after any armor saves have already been rolled.

Yeah no idea why I thought that, I think I was equating the 5++ vs MWs that Archai had with Nagash.  All good, thanks!

[nine7six]

27 minutes ago, Arcian said:

So far i think the idea is to not put the weapon on your hekatos since you'll want him in the middle of your guard blocks to better make use of his RD abilities

Thanks!

[relic456]

10 hours ago, XReN said:

That is a list I'm going to build first, actually a difficult choice of artefacts! Obviously I have to take Godbone Armor, but 2nd artefact is an open question and I'm looking forward to testing it all. C&C are welcome

Funnily enough this is the exact list I landed on as well.  I was also considering doing a 3/3 split for Immortis and Stalkers, dropping 3x Immortis for a Crawler, but the more I think about it the more like 6x Stalkers seems like the right call.

The real question in my mind is how well units of 10 Mortek Guard will perform on the field. Arkhan and the Boneshaper both need the unit to survive to get their heals off, so getting double turned might decimate the objective holders. 

[Sception]

17 minutes ago, TheKingInYellow said:

Yeah no idea why I thought that, I think I was equating the 5++ vs MWs that Archai had with Nagash.  All good, thanks!

It's worth pointing out that in the case of IG taking mortal wounds for nagash, soulbound protectors is rolled before Nagash's armor's roll to negate mortal wounds.

[Emissary]

1 hour ago, Mohawk_Monkey said:

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers

 - Mortal Realm: Shyish
 - Legion: Petrifex Elite

LEADERS
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)

Liege-Kavalos (200)- General- Command Trait : Mighty Archaeossian- Artefact : Helm of the Ordained

Mortisan Boneshaper (130)- Lore of Mortisans : Reinforce Battle-shields

Mortisan Soulmason (140)- Artefact : Godbone Armour- Lore of Mortisans : Empower Nadirite Weapons
 

UNITS
20 x Mortek Guard (260)- Nadirite Blade and Shield

5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)- Nadirite Blade and Shield

5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)- Nadirite Blade and Shield

BEHEMOTHS

Gothizzar Harvester (200) bludgeons

Crawler (200)

BATTALIONS
Kavalos Lance (120)

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)

7 Drop with 6RDP+9D6 per battle round

Plenty of things to do. i've toyed with swapping the crawler for a unit of 40x mortek instead of 20 + the carrion endless spell.  I really like the harvester model. Hated it at first, but once it was up on the GW store and i could spin it 360 I changed my mind quite quickly. The crawler is solid but with the limited unit count and deathriders out front it'll be real easy to get round the back of it.  I've been procrastinating on my Arkhan for months and really want to use him too. reckon having 40 guard and no crawler might give more options as it'll be easier to field a 1k list with 40 morteks on hand rather than 20. 

The immortis guard/ stalkers look fun but im not convinced when you compare their mobility to riders and the difficulty in bringing them back. Also i've been wanting a decent mounted skellybob unit for flippin ages. 

I think the army looks good overall.  One thought would be to drop the boneshaper and shrieker for a soulreaper and the predator.  Yes the soulreaper is worse, but the predator is a something else helpful to your army (damage) while the shriekers +1 to hit is already there on the helm artifact.  The soul reaper isn't terrible with the 3+ save, especially if you give him the other artifact and/or make him the general.  

Edited November 5, 2019 by Emissary

[Izikail]

How about this list

mortis pretorians

nagash

Katakros

3*10 mortek guard

Harvester or immortis guard as preferd

Endless up to 30 if desired

Massive gimic obviously but a combo of the two CAs gives +1 save and hit and reroll 1s for both so everything is basicly 2+ with a reroll to hit and 2+/3+ save with reroll 1. Combine this with there healing output of 6 wounds to three units and 3 to 2 more means nagash and katakros arnt going down any time soon and the 10 guards will last alot longer than you think, the damage output will be super low but they will grind things down

Edited November 5, 2019 by Izikail

[Goldy751]

First model is done! 

[Arcian]

8 minutes ago, Goldy751 said:

First model is done! 

Looks fantastic! I'm envious. I haven't had anytime to even assemble my boneboys, people keep bugging me everyday I sit down to do it

[Nightseer2012]

So, just as a curiosity, has anyone considered a Boneshaper or Soulreaper on a Balewind Vortex?  Gets them another cast, to a 3+ save (2+ with Petrifex), and boosts their spells to 24” Range.  Haven’t tried it, just popped into my head on the way home today.  Might be fun on the soulreaper if he is blobbed up defending an objective or something?

[jabbadewonga]

OK Current list for my first ever AoS army is...

Petrifex (obviously!)

Soulmason (140)
Boneshaper (130)

1x Mortek Guard (swords) x10 (130)
1x Mortek Guard (swords) x10 (130)
1x Mortek Guard (spears) x20 (260)

Gothizzar Harvester (200)

Statue (0)

990/1000

How does that sound? My friend's just picked up a Stormcast army - I'll most likely be playing just him for a while but with a mind to go to tournaments eventually. Can't wait to get my hands on a Crawler!