AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[XReN]

5 minutes ago, smartazjb0y said:

Yeah that was slightly annoying about the box; the instruction booklet is great but it's missing all alternate instructions (Harbingers, Immortis Guard, Scraplauncher). The other 2 aren't really an issue since you can find their old instruction booklets by googling but the Immortis Guard aren't out yet so no instructions haha

Yeah, that's the new, stupid and annoying way GeeDubs make their starter sets. Totally going to whine about it if they make another survey for customers

[Izikail]

got my feast box, is there a "safer" way to build the two optional units, im a student who dosnt have tones of disposable income so im looking for the most universally useful version of the stalker/immortis and the morghasts?

 

[NoMaDhOoK]

33 minutes ago, Sception said:

If you build the stalkers, four swords is almost always better than paired greatsword, by enough that it kind of foes matter.  Their unit upgrade is actually a downgrade, at least for now.  Kind of sad.  Not a huge one, so if you value aesthetics over gameplay you shouldn't feel too bad for taking it anyway, but yeah.

Honestly, if you end up building the greatswords (rule of cool), just let your opponent know before you start that you are not playing with the "upgraded" weapons. I doubt anyone would mind

Kind of disappointing that pretty much all of our "upgrades" are worse than the normal weapons

Edited November 5, 2019 by NoMaDhOoK

[XReN]

9 minutes ago, Izikail said:

got my feast box, is there a "safer" way to build the two optional units, im a student who dosnt have tones of disposable income so im looking for the most universally useful version of the stalker/immortis and the morghasts?

 

Magnets are your friends

You can try and do it on your own after some research, or wait untill someone magnetises those exact models like I'm going to do.

[GeneralZero]

Magnet, I did it...occasionally but TBH, it is soooo boring and time consuming that I am a bit fed up of all those magnets, especially on infantry.

What? No immortis assembling instruction on the book???? WTF games worksh*t??? It is the first time I see this, same for all alternative builds! (technically: I don't see it! 🤬)

Edited November 5, 2019 by GeneralZero

[TheKingInYellow]

I think I have my first 2K list sorted.  My only issue is lack of RDP points, but I think it's a solid list overall:

Petrifex Elite

Arkhan the Black

Mortisan Soulmason - General, Mighty Archaeossian, Godbone Armour, Drain Vitality

Mortek Guard x 20 - Blades, Necrophoros, Hekatos

Mortek Guard x 20 - Blades, Necrophoros, Hekatos

Kavalos Deahtriders x 10 - Spears, Necrophoros, Hekatos

Gothizzar Harvester - Sickles

Mortek Crawler

Mortek Crawler

Soulstealer Carrion

Bone-Tithe Nexus

2k points exactly.  Thoughts?

Edited November 5, 2019 by TheKingInYellow

[XReN]

1 minute ago, GeneralZero said:

Magnet, I did it...occasionally but TBH, it is soooo boring and time consuming that I am a bit fed up of all those magnets, especially on infantry.

Fortunately there is no infantry (like in 1-2 wound hoard-y hobos) worth of magnetising in OBR and Stalkers/Immortis are so few in number that it won't take much work to magnetise

[GeneralZero]

Yep you're right: only 1 stalker out of 3, that's it.

[NoMaDhOoK]

27 minutes ago, TheKingInYellow said:

I think I have my first 2K list sorted.  My only issue is lack of RDP points, but I think it's a solid list overall:

Petrifex Elite

Arkhan the Black

Mortisan Soulmason - General, Mighty Archaeossian, Godbone Armour, Drain Vitality

Mortek Guard x 20 - Blades, Necrophoros, Hekatos

Mortek Guard x 20 - Blades, Necrophoros, Hekatos

Kavalos Deahtriders x 10 - Spears, Necrophoros, Hekatos

Gothizzar Harvester - Sickles

Mortek Crawler

Mortek Crawler

Soulstealer Carrion

Bone-Tithe Nexus

2k points exactly.  Thoughts?

You might find yourself RDP starved with only 2 guaranteed a round. I would maybe get yourself a Liege-Kavalos (200 points) to take you to 4 guaranteed (Liege gives you 1 on top of the hero 1). You would have to drop something though

Edited November 5, 2019 by NoMaDhOoK

[Reuben Parker]

Why are people saying the greatsword isn’t worth it for Mortek 

blade 36 attacks - 30 hits - 15 wounds 

greatsword 36 attacks - 24 hits - 16 wounds. 
marginal but better so they should always be equipped. 
 

the stalker special weapon is pretty garbage as you nearly always want the +1 dmg rend form which will make the dual swords way better. 

[Amradiel]

Ok. I'll be honest here. I bought two boxes as soon as it hit for pre-order. Now I feel that I want to sell my Vokmortian's and Morghasts. I really like the models for Stalkers and Immortis guard so I'm thinking that I will build both units. 

I'm looking at just Petrifex elite with Arkhan and a Liege-kavalos. If that is too light on characters I'm considering a Soulmason aswell.  

Honestly don't know how I want to do with the rest 😅

[Nuradin]

23 minutes ago, Reuben Parker said:

Why are people saying the greatsword isn’t worth it for Mortek 

I think it is because The nedirite blade thing doesnt yet apply to them. And IF you them use empower weapon they explode on 5+ and gets even better than greatsword. 

But for me its aestethics.. They just dont look as cool as sword and board! 

[Emissary]

You might want to make 2 of each type of morghast to use the 3 battalions.  That's what I did.

[Reuben Parker]

16 minutes ago, Nuradin said:

I think it is because The nedirite blade thing doesnt yet apply to them. And IF you them use empower weapon they explode on 5+ and gets even better than greatsword. 

But for me its aestethics.. They just dont look as cool as sword and board! 

Buff / debuff works both ways though. Anything that gives + to hit helps greatswords more. If opponent has a to wound debuff or re roll hit 6s debuff greatswords are massively better, where as minus to hit makes the greatswords worse. 

But if you prefer the look there’s no arguing with that  rule of cool trumps all. 

[Sception]

If you're worried about competitiveness, you're often talking about tournament & other time-limited formats.  Having to roll the greatsword attacks separately adds up, for an extremely marginal benefit - your own numbers show you need to roll 36 attacks to average even one more wound than swords, and the max number of greatsword attacks a unit can even make in a combat round before buffs is 8.  Just not worth the bother, especially not with enhance nadirite being a popular buff.

[NoMaDhOoK]

18 minutes ago, Reuben Parker said:

Buff / debuff works both ways though. Anything that gives + to hit helps greatswords more. If opponent has a to wound debuff or re roll hit 6s debuff greatswords are massively better, where as minus to hit makes the greatswords worse. 

But if you prefer the look there’s no arguing with that  rule of cool trumps all. 

It's not about a bonus to hit. It's unmodified 6's (5's with the spell) of nadrite weapons explode into 2 hits (1 extra) . 

This does not affect the greatsword as it is not a nadrite weapon (no exploding hits at all) 

It means mathematically with the spell (5+ exploding) normal swords do more wounds on average than greatswords

Edited November 5, 2019 by NoMaDhOoK

[relic456]

1 hour ago, TheKingInYellow said:

I think I have my first 2K list sorted.  My only issue is lack of RDP points, but I think it's a solid list overall:

Petrifex Elite

Arkhan the Black

Mortisan Soulmason - General, Mighty Archaeossian, Godbone Armour, Drain Vitality

Mortek Guard x 20 - Blades, Necrophoros, Hekatos

Mortek Guard x 20 - Blades, Necrophoros, Hekatos

Kavalos Deahtriders x 10 - Spears, Necrophoros, Hekatos

Gothizzar Harvester - Sickles

Mortek Crawler

Mortek Crawler

Soulstealer Carrion

Bone-Tithe Nexus

2k points exactly.  Thoughts?

My only thought is that I would go for the bludgeons instead of the sickles on the Harvester.  There are so many sources of +1 hit in this army that I think you'll get more mileage out of some extra MWs. Interested to hear what others think though!

[TheKingInYellow]

2 minutes ago, relic456 said:

My only thought is that I would go for the bludgeons instead of the sickles on the Harvester.  There are so many sources of +1 hit in this army that I think you'll get more mileage out of some extra MWs. Interested to hear what others think though!

Yeah I go back and forth.  The MWs aren't in addition to the regular -2 rend 2D hit so I see them as good, but not great.  In this list I need my casters doing damage too so not sure what kind of buffing I'll be doing.  Totally agree though, that both options are attractive.

 

1 hour ago, NoMaDhOoK said:

You might find yourself RDP starved with only 2 guaranteed a round. I would maybe get yourself a Liege-Kavalos (200 points) to take you to 4 guaranteed (Liege gives you 1 on top of the hero 1). You would have to drop something though

Yeah it's an issue.  I can always use one casting attempt from Arkhan to generate the points but that's not ideal.  Not sure what I could drop, I think the Crawlers really need to be in pairs at least.  Maybe reduce one guard unit to 10 and take a Boneshaper?  Not as good as the Kavalos for RDP but still another guaranteed +1.

[Reuben Parker]

12 minutes ago, NoMaDhOoK said:

It's not about a bonus to hit. It's unmodified 6's (5's with the spell) of nadrite weapons explode into 2 hits (1 extra) . 

This does not affect the greatsword as it is not a nadrite weapon (no exploding hits at all) 

It means mathematically with the spell (5+ exploding) normal swords do more wounds on average than greatswords

I understand that, I was making the point that buffs debuffs of different types can change which is better in addition to that spell so picking one buff and saying it makes the blades a better choice isn’t a particularly valid argument was my point.

 

[NoMaDhOoK]

Just now, Reuben Parker said:

I understand that, I was making the point that buffs debuffs of different types can change which is better in addition to that spell so picking one buff and saying it makes the blades a better choice isn’t a particularly valid argument was my point.

 

The unmodified 6's is innate to the unit. The 5+ spell I understand.

I would still build the greatsword and just say to your opponent whether you are using it or not (before the game begins). I doubt anyone would care.

Honestly I just hope the greatsword gets FAQ'd into a nadirite weapon 

[Sception]

1 hour ago, Izikail said:

got my feast box, is there a "safer" way to build the two optional units, im a student who dosnt have tones of disposable income so im looking for the most universally useful version of the stalker/immortis and the morghasts?

If disposable income is an issue, I recommend not trying to chase competitive builds in the first place.  Regular errata/faq/points cost updates often change what the best options are in a faction, to say nothing of meta shifts in responce to new releases.  The units you like best narratively and aesthetically will remain largely consistent, but the most effective & points efficient options will not, so unless you have the time and money to signigicantly rework your army once a year or more, competitiveness should be a secondary concern, imo.

That said....

Of the various monstrous infantry builds available to tge bonereapers, stalkers with four blades seems the most efficient out of the book.  The greatsword upgrade is actually a downgrade mathematically, the trickier comparison is to immortis guard, but there the stalkers purity of purpose wins out.

The stalkers just want to kill things, and they do that well.  Immortis split their efforts between offense, defense, and bodyguarding, and while they aren't bad at any of that, they aren't exactly efficient at any of it either.  If they're hanging back guarding your casters then they aren't putting their melee stats to use, if your casters are up front in melee with them they aren't all that much safer than they'd be on their own in the back lines anyway.  Plus 200 points is a lot for a bodyguard.  Why spend 200 points to protect one boneshaper when you could spend 130 points to have a second boneshaper instead, with 70 points left over?  And, while immortis are fairly tough thanks to their 3+ base save, 2+ in petrifex, any wounds they pull off of your heroes skip their save entirely.

None of that is to say immortis are bad.  They're a very cool and versatile unit.  But in being less focused on a single task than stalkers they end up less efficient at whatwver job they end up doing, and in a competitive scene efficiency matters...

Then again, in a competitive contest I'm not sure stalkers make the cut either.  While they're more efficient at killing than immortis, they're still less efficuent at it than the real stars of the faction - the mortek guard, who also happen to be tougher point for point than the immortis, and faster regenerating, and more numerous for claiming objectives, and battleline.  Both our monsterous infantry units are cool and usable, but in a competitive contest I'm not sure either of tgem can compete with just more mortek guard.

Which is too bad, because when this faction was advertised as 'elite' undead, I was kind of hoping that would mean they wouldn't be hoardy, when in practice what it seems to mean is a paradoxical army of elite hoards.

 

 

Speaking of tge mortek, early consensus seems to be leaning towards sword & shield as the best, since rend can be critical, and with snall bases it's not too hard to get most of even a 40 model unit into combat evwn without the extra reach of the spears.  Again, I recommend building for your aesthetic preference as 'optinal' builds vary frequently over time, but if your looking for the best way ti build them here and now, sword and board seems to be the current favorite,

[Izikail]

Immortis who take wounds dont get a save? Sad, does that also mean that for there death saves and such that they have to save against the D not the number of wounds, so three saves against one hit from a D3 weapon?

[Reuben Parker]

4 minutes ago, NoMaDhOoK said:

The unmodified 6's is innate to the unit. The 5+ spell I understand.

I would still build the greatsword and just say to your opponent whether you are using it or not (before the game begins). I doubt anyone would care.

Honestly I just hope the greatsword gets FAQ'd into a nadirite weapon 

If you look at my original post I broke it down with the blade innate exploding 6s they’re still worse than greatswords. 

36 attack - 30 hits - 15 wounds 

36 attack - 24 hits - 16 wounds 

Marginal yes but it’s adding up all those small little %s over a game that can eek out a win. 

[PraetorDragoon]

3 minutes ago, Izikail said:

Immortis who take wounds dont get a save? Sad, does that also mean that for there death saves and such that they have to save against the D not the number of wounds, so three saves against one hit from a D3 weapon?

As always -> Roll to hit -> roll to wound -> roll save -> calculate damage -> Allocate Wounds -> Immortis Intercept step (if applicable) -> roll to negate wounds (if any)

[Sception]

1 hour ago, TheKingInYellow said:

I think I have my first 2K list sorted.  My only issue is lack of RDP points, but I think it's a solid list overall:

Petrifex Elite

Arkhan the Black

Mortisan Soulmason - General, Mighty Archaeossian, Godbone Armour, Drain Vitality

Mortek Guard x 20 - Blades, Necrophoros, Hekatos

Mortek Guard x 20 - Blades, Necrophoros, Hekatos

Kavalos Deahtriders x 10 - Spears, Necrophoros, Hekatos

Gothizzar Harvester - Sickles

Mortek Crawler

Mortek Crawler

Soulstealer Carrion

Bone-Tithe Nexus

2k points exactly.  Thoughts?

Looks nice.  imo bludgeons are better than sickles on the harvester.  Additionally, I'd take a boneshaper instead of the soulmasin - healing is too important.  That also frees up 10 points to upgrade the soulstealer to a shrieker, which imo is the better dpel for your support caster to cast, and I don't generally like to cast soulbound spells w/arkhan since they eat away at his important casting bonus.

 

Another thing to consider is combining the morteks into one big unit, and splitting the riders into 2 of 5.  Consolidates your infantry power, maximizes individual buffs, and lets you be more flexible with your faster units.  Also frees up 80 points, which you could use for more endless spells, or drop the one you already have for the ballistari formation, assuming you've also traded the mason for a shaper, to get another RD point a turn, and protect your catapults.