AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Blitzd]

1 hour ago, Asamu said:

I'd consider swapping the stalkers to Immortis Guard. They don't hit as hard, but they have a 2+ save and eat wounds for your heroes on a 2+, so your opponent can't just pick off your heroes to start dismantling the list; it's especially good with the relatively fragile hero core you're bringing.

I think any hyper-competitive list should run Arkhan unless it's bringing Nagash though. He gets all the spells in the lore, gets the subfaction benefits, can heal 4 units every round (including himself, because he gets the keyword as part of the army), and is good in combat for a pretty cheap point cost of 360, and he's basically only 2nd to Nagash in terms of magic.

If it's true that the deathriders can use their ability multiple times on the same charge, that'll probably end up being the most competitive list. 20-30 mortal wounds because 1 model out of 10-15 is within range of a unit after the charge and you burned 6 command points is brutal.

I'll have a look at the guard. In my area, arkhan would be dead turn 1 or 2 so he isn't really a go to, any big centre pieces like that usually don't last party turn 2 for at least one of the armies. My biggest opponent is a 4 bloodthirsters list or a 3 keepers list, so not putting a chunk of points into 1 model is usually the go to unless you can spam them like the aforementioned lists. 

 

Also, if you burn multiple chicane points on the death riders, does that mean you can wipe a unit with mortals and then pile on like 21 inches of you blow 6cp? I don't think it will work that way as you use the cp after you finish a charge, you do the mortals and then it's no longer after you finished a charge, so you can only do it once

Edited November 4, 2019 by Blitzd

[Sception]

6 hours ago, Nuradin said:

So what does the math say about Mortek Guards and the greatsword?

It's only fractionaly better than the swords, to the point where it isn't really worth the bother of having to roll dice separately.  If you cast the 'enhance nadirite weapons' spell on the unit then it's not any better at all.  I'd skip the upgrade in any sword armed unit.

In a spear armed unit, it lets you get some rend into your front rank, while still getting your third rank into the combat with the spears, so I'd always take as many as I could there, including one on the hekatos.

But the early optimization wisdom seems to be encouraging swords over spears in the first place, if you care about that sort of thing.

[Overread]

Also note that I'm still of the opinion that GW doesn't mean you to put the double blade on the Hekatos. Much like you don't give leaders in other units banners and trumpet upgrades. However it something that I hope the FAQ as rules as written the Hekatos can take the double handed sword; rules as interpreted based on GW's general patterns of behaviour in other battletomes it can't take it. 

[Panzer]

37 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

What do you guys think of this as a starter list?

Petrifex Elite

Liege Kavalos: General, +2 Wound trait and ignore first wound item.
Boneshaper: Empower Weapons.
Soulmason: Empower Shields.

20 Guard: Blades.
20 Guard: Blades.
6 Stalkers: Blades.
5 Deathriders: Blades.

Crawler.
Harvester: Bludgeons.

Bonetithe Shrieker.

2000pts

Kavlos and Deathriders roll together.  I figure I need something fast for grabbing objectives and this is all we have. I think the Guard with blades are actually pretty solid models. I also really wan Stalkers with blades to be amazing. The Crawler seems good, but it's going to end up sitting there undefended. Maybe I'll break one of the 20 Guard units into 2x10.

Is it weird I haven't bothered with the extra two-handed swords in any of the units?

It's also interesting that the Shrieker buffs all hit rolls- not just melee. So it'll buff the Crawler and Harvester's guns.

The more I look at it, the more I feel like I need less characters and more actual meat. Everything is so expensive. There's this weird Skornergy between wanting to run min-max to get more discipline points and being able to get the most out of buffing units.

At least with this, I'm generating 4 points and rolling 9D6.

Almost exactly the 2000p list I'm planning to build for my Crematorians. Just that I take 3 Immortis and a second Harvester instead of the 6 Stalkers and a Soulreaper instead of the Soulmason.

Also I take way more spears but that's only because I don't care about min-maxing and prefer spears aesthetically.

[Souleater]

@Overread Liberators have the same 1 in X weapons upgrade option, and their sergeant is allowed to be given a Great Weapon, so it isn't unprecedented. 

[Sception]

Actually, thinking about it again, it might be better not to put the greatblade on your hekatos in a spear unit, even if the rules allow it.  A unit needs to stay 'entirely within' 6" of their hekatos to use them for ability ranges, so you'll likely want him positioned in the center of the unit rather than way up front, especially in big spear blocks, so they may need the spear's extra reach to attack.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Sception

[InvkrMainr]

4 Mortek Crawlers in 2k.. yay or nay? 

really love that model, and the rules seem pretty nice too. 

 

This is prob too many to be a top tier list, but seems super fun to me. 

 

 

[Panzer]

It seems to be strong for now, but it's one of those things that can quickly backfire once you play with a bit more terrain or if GW decides to nerf them since they are a big chunk of your points and cost quite a lot of money.

[Dolomyte]

Yeah at 800 points and minimum of 390 for battleline you basically have 810 points left for hero’s and units to actually hold objectives and Alpha strike armies will simply gut the crawlers turn 1 as you won’t have the bodies to screen em

[Sception]

there are definitely games you'll win just for fielding them.  But if anything in this army is going to see a negative reaction from the community due to unfun play experiences and a resulting points increase it's the catapults that seem equally capable of removing both handfuls of chaff and individual heroes with next to no effort from all the way accross the board.  I don't think they're unfair at 200 points, they are easy to neutralize with any sort of fast rush business, but yeah, 4x crawler lists will be a thing, and people will be mad about it, and GW will probably end up nerfing them by the simplest means necessary - a points hike, which will hit 4x crawler armies very hard.

Personally, I'd recommend 1x or 2x crawler in generic lists.  Still good, but few enough to still have an army left after, and to maybe be able to absorb a small points hike if one comes.  Maybe.  Honestly, points are so tight in this faction already it's hard to say.

[InvkrMainr]

12 minutes ago, Dolomyte said:

Yeah at 800 points and minimum of 390 for battleline you basically have 810 points left for hero’s and units to actually hold objectives and Alpha strike armies will simply gut the crawlers turn 1 as you won’t have the bodies to screen em

You can fit 6 10 squads of Morteks to be fair. With 80 points left, and that is with Soulmason for the rerolll of 1s to hit (so essentailyl always hit), and a Kavalos for the +1 Attack so they get 4 attacks on their shot. 

 

Its a super one dimensional list, just screen as much as possible 

 

I did also try a 10 man squad of riders and 3 10 man squads of guard. But think the 6 squads and just screening super well might be better.. but the 10 man riders could slog something dangerous down or content enemy board side. 

 

2 minutes ago, Sception said:

there are definitely games you'll win just for fielding them.  But if anything in this army is going to see a negative reaction from the community due to unfun play experiences and a resulting points increase it's the catapults that seem equally capable of removing both handfuls of chaff and individual heroes with next to no effort from all the way accross the board.  I don't think they're unfair at 200 points, they are easy to neutralize with any sort of fast rush business, but yeah, 4x crawler lists will be a thing, and people will be mad about it, and GW will probably end up nerfing them by the simplest means necessary - a points hike, which will hit 4x crawler armies very hard.

Personally, I'd recommend 1x or 2x crawler in generic lists.  Still good, but few enough to still have an army left after, and to maybe be able to absorb a small points hike if one comes.  Maybe.  Honestly, points are so tight in this faction already it's hard to say.

yeah I noticed the tight points too trying to fit 4 of them in.. 

Perhaps I will aim if i really want to do this for 3 instead, just in case they are nerfed my list isn't basically unfieldable within the points limit. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by InvkrMainr

[Sception]

I'm personally holding off on crawlers for the moment - they look great both visually and in rules, but they're very pricey and just getting the basics off the ground is already stretching my hobby budget about as far as it wants to go.  But if I were getting crawlers in my starting pile I'd aim for the formation - which is two plus a unit of morteks and a boneshaper.  Then if the crawlers do get hit with a points nerf down the line you can just drop the formation to cover the points without otherwise changing the army at all, since those are good units that you'd want to run regardless.

A 4x crawler list with double the formation would be cool... but 4 crawlers is already so many points that paying for the formation twice on top of that is probably prohibitive.  Especially since in a 4x crawler list you probably also want a liege for the +1 attack buff.  4 extra shots for 200 points is one shot more than you'd get from a 5th crawler for the same points, after all. 

[Panzer]

As a general guideline for me personally if a model costs 200+ points I'd take a max of two units.

3+ of such a model in a list I'd consider either a themed list for which it shouldn't matter too much whether it's a good idea or not, or a list that exploits a unit that's clearly stronger than it should be in which case the player should expect a nerf that potentially ruins that kind of list coming eventually anyway.

[Evil Bob]

1 hour ago, InvkrMainr said:

4 Mortek Crawlers in 2k.. yay or nay? 

really love that model, and the rules seem pretty nice too. 

 

This is prob too many to be a top tier list, but seems super fun to me. 

Significantly so.  Alpha charge armies and anyone with broad saves will have the advantage.

Also the Crawlers lose damage output pretty fast, every 3/2/3 wounds lowers their primary damage output by twenty percent.  So even casual range fire is a threat.  These are precision machines with very specialized uses.  I’ll get one for anti-horde fun, maybe a second so they aren’t alone.  Only one would be on the field outside mega battles.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Evil Bob

[Asamu]

3 hours ago, Blitzd said:

I'll have a look at the guard. In my area, arkhan would be dead turn 1 or 2 so he isn't really a go to, any big centre pieces like that usually don't last party turn 2 for at least one of the armies. My biggest opponent is a 4 bloodthirsters list or a 3 keepers list, so not putting a chunk of points into 1 model is usually the go to unless you can spam them like the aforementioned lists. 

 

Also, if you burn multiple chicane points on the death riders, does that mean you can wipe a unit with mortals and then pile on like 21 inches of you blow 6cp? I don't think it will work that way as you use the cp after you finish a charge, you do the mortals and then it's no longer after you finished a charge, so you can only do it once

That's why you pair him with some immortis guard and run him in the Petrifex Elite. It gets him a 3+ save and essentially a 2+ shrug for as long as the Immortis guard are alive, and he can heal himself in the hero phase. He's way more resilient in OBR than in normal LoN. With 3 Immortis guard, they'd need to do 23 wounds in a single round to kill him, and he'd effectively heal for up to 6 wounds per round (if you've been shrugging damage to the immortis guard and taking some on him). If you also bring Katakros or a boneshaper you get even more healing. That's a 560-690 point investment for the 2-3 units, and it's not like Immortis guard are pushovers in melee; they don't hit particularly hard, but with a 2+ save and potentially re-rolls, they generally won't go down in 1 round, even in a small unit, and they can protect your other heroes as well.

For the death riders, it needs an FAQ, RAW you can arguably do that, because there's nothing clarifying that you can only use it once.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Asamu

[tea_wild_owl]

20 minutes ago, Asamu said:

That's why you pair him with some immortis guard and run him in the Petrifex Elite. It gets him a 3+ save and essentially a 2+ shrug for as long as the Immortis guard are alive, and he can heal himself in the hero phase. He's way more resilient in OBR than in normal LoN. With 3 Immortis guard, they'd need to do 23 wounds in a single round to kill him, and he'd effectively heal for up to 6 wounds per round (if you've been shrugging damage to the immortis guard and taking some on him). If you also bring Katakros or a boneshaper you get even more healing. That's a 560-690 point investment for the 2-3 units, and it's not like Immortis guard are pushovers in melee; they don't hit particularly hard, but with a 2+ save and potentially re-rolls, they generally won't go down in 1 round, even in a small unit, and they can protect your other heroes as well.

note that the soul bound protectors rule is a must, you cannot deliberately choose to allocate it or not, you have to roll.

however, it still makes Arkham way more durable for sure and I will try it out

[Izikail]

How many saves can you try, is it pick the best or use all available

 

Example, the morghast archai taken with there battalion, if they were to redirect wounds targeted at a hero would the get, 

For normal wounds, 5+ from the battalion, 4+ from there save and a 6+ deathless save?

For mortal wounds, 5+ from battalion, 5+ ebony wrought armour, and the 6+ deathless?

[Asamu]

1 hour ago, Izikail said:

How many saves can you try, is it pick the best or use all available

 

Example, the morghast archai taken with there battalion, if they were to redirect wounds targeted at a hero would the get, 

For normal wounds, 5+ from the battalion, 4+ from there save and a 6+ deathless save?

For mortal wounds, 5+ from battalion, 5+ ebony wrought armour, and the 6+ deathless?

You can use all of them.

The battalion only gives a shrug on the 2+ redirect from heroes though; it becomes 2-4 to redirect and 5-6 shrug entirely. Deathless minion and ebony wrought armour take place after wounds are allocated after normal save rolls, so it looks like you could take them after the Soulbound Protectors roll. Needs an FAQ on the ordering, since they all happen at wound allocation, and the RAW is you get to pick the order when it is your turn and they happen at the same time, so you could armor -> deathless initial allocation -> soulbound protectors -> deathless on the new allocation -> ebony wrought armour*(if it was a mortal wound).

The argument can be made that the deathless save can only be made once, because the allocation from soulbound protectors is "instead of", so is technically still only 1 allocation for the purpose of deathless saves, which is probably the better way to play it..

[Izikail]

Humm ok, i had been thinking that the harbingers were better as that charge is usefull, but maybe the archai could be used with that battalion. Im thinking of a katakros guard keeping his hp up for his funky abilities and useing his heals to top up the guards and morghast. Then useing katakros ca's to give the morghast extra save, hit and attack, as they have a -2r 3d wepon they benifit alot and the guards have two attack stats (although one is meh) to buff.

[Amradiel]

5 hours ago, Obeisance said:

What do you guys think of this as a starter list?

Petrifex Elite

Liege Kavalos: General, +2 Wound trait and ignore first wound item.
Boneshaper: Empower Weapons.
Soulmason: Empower Shields.

20 Guard: Blades.
20 Guard: Blades.
6 Stalkers: Blades.
5 Deathriders: Blades.

Crawler.
Harvester: Bludgeons.

Bonetithe Shrieker.

2000pts

Kavlos and Deathriders roll together.  I figure I need something fast for grabbing objectives and this is all we have. I think the Guard with blades are actually pretty solid models. I also really wan Stalkers with blades to be amazing. The Crawler seems good, but it's going to end up sitting there undefended. Maybe I'll break one of the 20 Guard units into 2x10.

Is it weird I haven't bothered with the extra two-handed swords in any of the units?

It's also interesting that the Shrieker buffs all hit rolls- not just melee. So it'll buff the Crawler and Harvester's guns.

The more I look at it, the more I feel like I need less characters and more actual meat. Everything is so expensive. There's this weird Skornergy between wanting to run min-max to get more discipline points and being able to get the most out of buffing units.

At least with this, I'm generating 4 points and rolling 9D6.

I'm working on something similar. But I have Arkhan and no Crawler. 

[Boneybois]

So while this is probabbly by no means the most compettive it does let me use all of the starting kit. 

 

Mortis Praetorians 

Katakros 

Vokmortian 

10 - 10 - 10 Mortek Guard 

3 - 3 Immortis Guard 

2 Morghast Archai 

Gothizzar Harvester 

Aegis Immortal 

40 of endless spells 

 

Otherwise trade out katakros + vokmortian for arkhan + boneshaper 

 

Petrifex Elite 

Arkhan 

Boneshaper 

10-10-10 Mortek Guard 

3 - 3 Immortis Guard 

2 Morghast Archai 

Gothizzar Harvester 

Gothizzar Harvester 

Aegis Immortal 

Carrion spell 

 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Boneybois

[Gwendar]

15 hours ago, Tronhammer NZ said:

@Gwendar 

You may of course, sharing is caring!

Mark 2 of the list would bump up the size of the Guard, and maybe swap 1 unit for some Deathriders for the objective grab. I'm not sure Morghast are best use of points, or that you would need all those endless spells, but that is the fun of trying things out. 

Ah, new army releases are such magical times. 

Yeah, I felt like I needed the battalion but... those 120 points are far more useful elsewhere and I've made the point before that getting below a 5 drop is mostly impossible or not feasible anyway. I'm just glad to see the Crawlers performing though I think it would be a shame if they did get nerfed in some way.

I think at this point I'm considering the same setup. Would give you 50 bodies, 5 Deathriders for those far off objectives and, well... that pretty much covers your bases quite well. The RD generation is a bit worrisome, but you're still getting 4 guaranteed so it may not be all that bad.

[Mohawk_Monkey]

Toying with 2 lists, both Petrifex Elite. 

LIST 1

LEADERS

Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament 

Liege-Kavalos  - General - Command Trait : Mighty Archaeossian - Artefact : Helm of the Ordained

Mortisan Boneshaper  - Artefact : Godbone Armour - Lore of Mortisans : Empower Nadirite Weapons

Mortisan Soulmason - Lore of Mortisans : Reinforce Battle-shields

UNITS

5 x Kavalos Deathriders - Nadirite Spear and Shield  (is extra attack on 5+/4+ worth no rend?)

5 x Kavalos Deathriders - Nadirite Spear and Shield

20 x Mortek Guard  - Nadirite Blade and Shield

3 x Immortis Guard

BEHEMOTHS

Gothizzar Harvester  

BATTALIONS

Kavalos Lance 

ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS

Soulstealer Carrion 

LIST 2

LEADERS

Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament 

Liege-Kavalos - General - Command Trait : Mighty Archaeossian - Artefact : Helm of the Ordained

Mortisan Boneshaper  - Artefact : Godbone Armour - Lore of Mortisans : Empower Nadirite Weapons

UNITS

10 x Kavalos Deathriders - Nadirite Blade and Shield  (might go spears for 4+ extra attack on charge)

20 x Mortek Guard - Nadirite Blade and Shield 

10 x Kavalos Deathriders - Nadirite Blade and Shield  (might go spears for 4+ extra attack on charge)

BEHEMOTHS

Gothizzar Harvester 

BATTALIONS

Kavalos Lance 

List 1 nets 5 RDP + 9D6 

List 2 nets 4 RDP + 7D6

I like the idea of List 2 having more bodies on the field, but i think i prefer list 1 because there are more options (both with the variety of models and the extra RDP) 5x deathriders too few for a BL? 

I'd like the battalion just to add the extra artifact as you have to take the petrifex ones first if you go that route and i like the helm/ key artifacts.

Let me know what you think

[Prometheo567]

It's probably been talked about somewhere on this thread but for the (un)life of me I cannot find it. What would you suggest as an assembly of the ossy part of Feast of Bones? I am heading now towards a 1000 points goal, with the intention of going 2k by december holidays.

As far as I understand it, our army (unless you go solo cavalry or something like that) is slowish, resilient (with petrifex at least) and can regenerate minis (hence big units are preferred) but our damage output can be a bit low. 

I plan building the Morghasts as Harbingers with halberds. I guess nobody will say anything if I decide before the game that they counts-as Archai, but I consider a 3d6 charge too good when compared to a situational 5+ save against MW.

The Mortek Guard I will probably assemble it with spears. The rend is lower but I can potentially hit with 3 ranks then, and I plan using big units anyway so they don't get wiped on a bad round. Is that a bad idea?

My biggest doubts are about the stalkers/immortis. I can see the potential of the stalkers going 5 attacks D2 (am I right thinking that in such scenario the “upgraded” weapons are actually worse?) or repeating saves. OTOH, Immortis Guard seem like a pretty nice bodyguard for caster heroes, of which I plan using a few in the future, but their damage potential is less than half the stalkers. Also, the Feast of Bones box doesn’t include the instructions for them. Kind of disappointing. I don’t really know how to aseemble them.

For my first 1k points I plan to use an anvil of Mortek guards wrapping heroes, either a smallish stalker flanking unit beside that block and Harbingers as a flanking hammer/warmachine hunter. Something like this
Petrifex elite
Vokmortion (140), general
Mortek guard 20 (260)
Mortek guard 10 (130)
Stalkers/Immortis 3 (200)
Harbingers 2 (210)
TOTAL: 940
Suggestions on what to add there? I could trade Vokmortion and 10 morteks for a boneshaper and another stalker/immortis unit, or getting it to 6, but I would have so few bodies then…
 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Prometheo567
Premature clic of post button.

[Nubl0]

Random thought I just had. Seeing as we can expect this army to be quite popular initially, is the crawler actually any good to take to events straight away. This army seems like one that would be extremely resilient to the catapult if it’s a petrifex army. Hard to snipe the general because of the petrifex trait and the artefact plus the whole army being 3+ or 2+ saves.