AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[chosen_of_khaine]

Regarding swords vs spears on the Mortek Guard in squads of 20, if anyone is curious on the math, 15 sword guard do the equivalent of 20 spears, so spears only edge out if you can't get 15 swords in to combat (which shouldn't be too hard fighting in two ranks).

[Sception]

11 minutes ago, chosen_of_khaine said:

Regarding swords vs spears on the Mortek Guard in squads of 20, if anyone is curious on the math, 15 sword guard do the equivalent of 20 spears, so spears only edge out if you can't get 15 swords in to combat (which shouldn't be too hard fighting in two ranks).

Doesn't this depend heavily in the opponent, though?  If the enemy is ethereal or has no armor save, then spears are always as good or better.  Spears also benefit more from the greatblade upgrades.

[Mxxaxxg]

If a spell or ability specifically targets the Hekatos model and it is removed can you then add it back to the unit with one of the healing abilities?

[DioRa]

27 minutes ago, Mxxaxxg said:

If a spell or ability specifically targets the Hekatos model and it is removed can you then add it back to the unit with one of the healing abilities?

Sounds like a popular question for the FAQ. Because then we can apply it to the banner bearer, any special greatswords in the unit.

My initial assumption would be YES, that you always heal/restore a unit to its original point. So if I had 4 greatswords in it and lost them, I can always get those models back. You simply restore the unit to its original composition.

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, relic456 said:

The line item is Vokmortion OR 1 Boneshaper OR 1 Soulreaper OR 1 Soul Mason

Ah, I thought he was required and the rest optional... That makes it far more appealing then.

[Arcian]

So i've seen some lists posted in the 1k range (which is where i'm thinking of starting off at) that feature liege kavalos and some heroes, then mortek guards. Are we thinking that liege kavalos is a pretty much must have? I assume because of that sweet RD generation, though since I don't have the book i'm a little fuzzy on how that exactly works. Does the LK generate 2, and do our heroes only generate 1? Because I thought that the heroes also generated 2, like the boneshaper and such.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Arcian

[Sception]

6 minutes ago, Arcian said:

So i've seen some lists posted in the 1k range (which is where i'm thinking of starting off at) that feature liege kavalos and some heroes, then mortek guards. Are we thinking that liege kavalos is a pretty much must have? I assume because of that sweet RD generation

That and his really solid command ability and benefiting more from the required trait and artefact of most subfactions than most of the casters.  He's just a solid, reliable general, and unless you're trying to maximize crawlers, or running a list that needs something very specific that he doesn't offer (Crematorians, for instance, might prefer to get more recursion in their list first), he should probably be the first hero you reach for in 1000 point games.  At higher points, you might skip him if running Katakros or Nagash, as Nagash is just too expensive to easily fit him and Katakros is both expensive and does similar work.  On the other hand Crematorian recursion lists that might not be able to fit one at 1000 points should probably find the room to do so by the time they hit 2000, as that sort of list still runs big blocks of infantry and those big blocks do benefit quite a bit from the Liege's command ability.

They're also part of the Kavalos battalion, which is worth running if you want to field kavalos at all.

[Emissary]

17 minutes ago, Arcian said:

So i've seen some lists posted in the 1k range (which is where i'm thinking of starting off at) that feature liege kavalos and some heroes, then mortek guards. Are we thinking that liege kavalos is a pretty much must have? I assume because of that sweet RD generation

Exactly.  They're quite good, have a great command ability and generate 2 RD points on their own.

[Arcian]

1 minute ago, Sception said:

That and his really solid command ability and benefiting more from the required trait and artefact of most subfactions than most of the casters.  He's just a solid, reliable general, and unless you're trying to maximize crawlers, or running a list that needs something very specific that he doesn't offer (Crematorians, for instance, might prefer to get more recursion in their list first), he should probably be the first hero you reach for in 1000 point games.  At higher points, you might skip him if running Katakros or Nagash, as Nagash is just too expensive to easily fit him and Katakros is both expensive and does similar work.  On the other hand Crematorian recursion lists that might not be able to fit one at 1000 points should probably find the room to do so by the time they hit 2000, as that sort of list still runs big blocks of infantry and those big blocks do benefit quite a bit from the Liege's command ability.

They're also part of the Kavalos battalion, which is worth running if you want to field kavalos at all.

Sorry Sception, but i happened to edit my post right before you commented I guess since i don't have the book i'm a little unclear on how our RD generate. So liege kavalos generates 2, do our mortison heroes (boneshaper, reaper, masons) only generate 1?

[GeneralZero]

At 1000 points, arkhan seems also viable:

arkhan (360?)

immortis (200)

guard 10 (130)

guard 10 (130)

riders 5 (180) / or preferably another hero + ES

or

arkhan (360?)

kavalos (200)

guard 10 (130)

guard 10 (130)

riders 5 (180)

[Sception]

1 hour ago, Arcian said:

Sorry Sception, but i happened to edit my post right before you commented I guess since i don't have the book i'm a little unclear on how our RD generate. So liege kavalos generates 2, do our mortison heroes (boneshaper, reaper, masons) only generate 1?

Each hero generates one relentless discipline point by default.  Each liege (including katakros and the cavalry special character) generate an extra one in addition to the first.  Then katakros generates three more if he's your general (so five total from just katakros as your general alone).  Then roll a die for each  of your OBR units on the table (including heroes) and for each six you gain yet another.  You might add more points if you have a command trait or otherwise that does so.

All that happens at the beginning of each battle round before determining who goes first.  Then in the hero phase one of your eizards can, if they know it, cast the dpell from the faction lore that grants an extra d3 relentless discipline points, and if your army is caster heavy or lacks a liege you'll definitely want one of your casters to cast that spell.

I don't have the book yet, but iirc unlike command points, relentless discipline points cannot be banked to use later in the game.  If you have any left over from the previous round at the start of the next round they are lost, and you start over with a new pool of points for the new round.

so a liege kavalos will give you 2 relentless discipline points each turn, as long as they are alive and on the table, plus a third if you roll a 6 on a d6.  By comparison, a mortisan will get you 1, plus again 1 more if you roll a 6.  The kavalos is more expensive at 200 points than any of the non-special-character casters, but as they're each more than 100 points the liege is still more efficient in terms of discipline point generation.

Speaking of casters, If you take the discipline point spell from the lore then a mortisan could get you d3 more, but only in your hero phase, not at the start of the battle round, and you'd have to give up taking another maybe better spell from the lore, and would have to succesfully cast the spell and not have it unbound.

 

Still, it's an option.  Particularly good for arkhan and nagash, who know all the lore spells, have bonuses to cast and multiple casts per turn, and are expensive enough to have trouble getting all the discipline points they'd want otherwise.

Apart from them, I could see taking the spell on a soulmason, who gets two casts and has a decent signature spell.  Or on a Soulreaper as a cheap field commander in small games, treating it as an infantry version of the liege that trades the command ability buff for a dispel attempt.

In general tjough, unless you're starved for discipline, they're probably better off taking something else from the lore.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Sception

[Arcian]

26 minutes ago, Sception said:

*snip*

This makes much more sense! I think reading the rules posted to the google doc is what sort of set me off course. But i think i have it now, thanks a lot Sception Though it's unfortunate we can't bank them, we at least seem to be able to generate quite a few at least.

[Sception]

Keep in mind i don't have the book yet and am going from summaries and half remembered review videos myself, so i could be wrong on some of that.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Sception

[Gwendar]

So, guess I've narrowed it down 2 ways thanks to @relic456 informing me Vok doesn't have to be included (for some reason I assumed it was needed despite all being seperated by commas) so curious to hear some thoughts on these as a competitive list. Both are 6 drops which seems close to average for OBR. The Crawler is what is really going to need the testing; if it end's up not working well it will likely be dropped for more Stalkers\Stalker and Harbinger battalion... which mitigates the need somewhat for Deathriders with the pre-game move and Harbingers higher move+charge for a Hero-killer that could be a replacement for a Crawler anyway.

Arkhan Kavalos

Spoiler

Petrifex

Arkhan
Liege Kavalos
Soul-Mason

30 Mortek
5 Deathriders
5 Deathriders

3 Stalkers

1 Crawler

Kavalos Lance

Bone-Tithe Shrieker

2k\2k

Arkhan Shield Corps

Spoiler

Petrifex

Arkhan
Liege Kavalos
Soul-Mason

20 Mortek
10 Mortek
10 Mortek
5 Deathriders

3 Stalkers

1 Crawler

Shield Corps

Bone-Tithe Shrieker
Nightmare Predator

1990\2k

 

[Arcian]

7 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

So, guess I've narrowed it down 2 ways thanks to @relic456 informing me Vok doesn't have to be included (for some reason I assumed it was needed despite all being seperated by commas) so curious to hear some thoughts on these as a competitive list. Both are 6 drops which seems close to average for OBR. The Crawler is what is really going to need the testing; if it end's up not working well it will likely be dropped for more Stalkers\Stalker and Harbinger battalion... which mitigates the need somewhat for Deathriders with the pre-game move and Harbingers higher move+charge for a Hero-killer that could be a replacement for a Crawler anyway.

Arkhan Kavalos

  Reveal hidden contents

Petrifex

Arkhan
Liege Kavalos
Soul-Mason

30 Mortek
5 Deathriders
5 Deathriders

3 Stalkers

1 Crawler

Kavalos Lance

Bone-Tithe Shrieker

2k\2k

Arkhan Shield Corps

  Reveal hidden contents

Petrifex

Arkhan
Liege Kavalos
Soul-Mason

20 Mortek
10 Mortek
10 Mortek
5 Deathriders

3 Stalkers

1 Crawler

Shield Corps

Bone-Tithe Shrieker
Nightmare Predator

1990\2k

 

I like these lists! Do you think you'd be able to effectively hold objectives with those battleline units?

[Nasnad]

Planing on buying some paints with my big order tomorrow, but not really sure about a paint scheme yet.

How are you all planning to paint your boneboyz?

Edited November 1, 2019 by Nasnad

[Arcian]

21 minutes ago, Nasnad said:

Planing on buying some paints with my big order tomorrow, but not really sure about a paint scheme yet.

How are you all planning to paint your boneboyz?

Planning on doing black/grey bone similar to what @Elmir did. With blue inner glows, navy armor plates, and white bone for the bone trim. Thinking of doing xenus minis ice blade for the blades. And thinking of setting them in a ice/tundra bases. Really aping that inspiration from the Lich King and Icecrown Citadel zones from WoW for them.

[Obeisance]

I'm thinking variant Petrifex, because there's like no photos of Petrifex in the book.

Grey bone. Red armour. Lighter grey armour sections. As standard.

But use blue instead of green on the weapons. Aethermatic blue on the skulls inside things and souls, as all my existing endless spells are mostly aethermatic.

I really love aethermatic blue.

[Nasnad]

Also wanna do some darker bone color, maybe cygor brown or something grey/black bone. Not sure if you will be using contrast, or trying something else

[Arcian]

1 minute ago, Nasnad said:

Also wanna do some darker bone color, maybe cygor brown or something grey/black bone. Not sure if you will be using contrast, or trying something else

I'm going to attempt black templar over white prime, I -think- if i apply it relatively thinly it'll get the look i want. Then highlight or drybrush with fenrusian grey. If my test model doesn't pan out, might try airbrushing some very light grey over the mini first, then try again.

[Evil Bob]

8 hours ago, Gwendar said:

I don't think Deathriders are 100%  needed for anything other than Mobility; not like they'll be doing a lot of damage as they seem quite... meh.

snip

I think “meh” is going to be a pretty common feeling when people look at the smaller amounts of attack dice than we are used to.  The funny chair hero was a very deliberate.  Some people are going to highly value getting to re-roll ones in combat.

My liking for the Deathriders has to do with any source of mortal wounds is good and the Leige Kavalos is going to be active and never running alone.

Aside the Devs did lower the point inefficiency on the Deathriders by giving the rider a third attack.  That was a nice touch.

[GeneralZero]

Immortis+kavalos runing everywhere: can kill anything while kavalos don't die due to bodyguards... I have to see if it worth 400 pts through...

[Gwendar]

1 hour ago, Arcian said:

I like these lists! Do you think you'd be able to effectively hold objectives with those battleline units?

That's kind of what I worry about, which leans me more towards a list without a Crawler. I've played mostly horde armies so, I don't particularly want to run a ton of Mortek and I think securing one objective with 30 of them would work fine.

Hard to say really, I would say there's an established "base" that I have of the following:

Arkhan
Liege Kavalos
Soulmason

30 Mortek
2x10 Mortek

Shield Corps

This leaves you with 530 points. You can run 1x10 Deathriders which seem to put out more damage with all buffs considered than just 3 Stalkers and still have room for a Boneshaper + Shrieker. With this, you're still at 6 drops and now have 4 Heroes for more RD and are saving 1 per turn with the Battalion.
 

3 minutes ago, Evil Bob said:

I think “meh” is going to be a pretty common feeling when people look at the smaller amounts of attack dice than we are used to.  The funny chair hero was a very deliberate.  Some people are going to highly value getting to re-roll ones in combat.

My liking for the Deathriders has to do with any source of mortal wounds is good and the Leige Kavalos is going to be active and never running alone.

Aside the Devs did lower the point inefficiency on the Deathriders by giving the rider a third attack.  That was a nice touch.

Yeah, the more I've been trying to write these lists the more I've turned to them and begun to shift away from Stalkers. The buffed unit of Mortek can hit just as hard so having an ultra-dedicated unit to 1 thing isn't as desirable when things like the Deathriders cover CC and mobility. Plus, they can have models returned to the unit unlike Stalkers.

That said, I've also considered running Deathglaive Battalion for the pre-game move and you're left with a pretty solid CC core at the cost of Deathrider mobility (but gain some back with the 6" move) and 10 less Mortek and you're left with 90 points for spells and 7 drops. Still, I'm starting to lean more heavily on the above and running 10 Deathriders and an extra Boneshaper for the model return.

... but man, I will always wonder if that Crawler is more worth it 😉

[Arcian]

8 minutes ago, Gwendar said:

.. but man, I will always wonder if that Crawler is more worth it 😉

I mean, how could you say no to that adorable centipede looking catapult?

[marke]

1 hour ago, Arcian said:

I mean, how could you say no to that adorable centipede looking catapult?

By thinking in how many sub-assemblies the sucker has to be painted.