AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Grdaat]

19 minutes ago, XReN said:

Bonereaper - 120
spell - Empowered Weapons
artefact - Guardian something (the 5+ death save one)

Sorry, but who is this character? We're all Bonereapers here.

[XReN]

1 minute ago, Grdaat said:

Sorry, but who is this character? We're all Bonereapers here.

Oh, it's Soulreaper actually

[Grdaat]

1 minute ago, XReN said:

Oh, it's Soulreaper actually

Ah, in that case I'm not too sure what he'll be doing in that list. He's not fast enough to keep up with anyone and he's also not very good outside of melee, but he's also too squishy to use in melee. He's one of those characters I really don't know what the point is, and to me it seems like the only way to make him good is to go Petrifex Elite and give him the extra wounds so he doesn't die so fast.

[XReN]

Just now, Grdaat said:

Ah, in that case I'm not too sure what he'll be doing in that list. He's not fast enough to keep up with anyone and he's also not very good outside of melee, but he's also too squishy to use in melee. He's one of those characters I really don't know what the point is, and to me it seems like the only way to make him good is to go Petrifex Elite and give him the extra wounds so he doesn't die so fast.

Yes, all of this is true, but I just wanted a caster for Lore spell and he was the only one to fit into point's limit. I also need a list that won't curb stomp my friends

My initial idea was to take boneshaper with double heal artefact

[Panzer]

3 hours ago, Sception said:

Fine and good, but then bypassing the 'recycling explosions with the harvester' strategy is just a matter of targeting the harvester first.

That's where positioning comes into play obviously.

[Dirtnaps]

2 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

Ah, in that case I'm not too sure what he'll be doing in that list. He's not fast enough to keep up with anyone and he's also not very good outside of melee, but he's also too squishy to use in melee. He's one of those characters I really don't know what the point is, and to me it seems like the only way to make him good is to go Petrifex Elite and give him the extra wounds so he doesn't die so fast.

It's there because it's the cheapest wizard and to empower nadirite weapons, the list I'm planning on running is basically the same at 1000pts. Brining Mortis guard is an alternative to running Petrifex Elite so you can pass off wounds to them if you want the Soulreaper to get stuck in.

[Grdaat]

12 minutes ago, Dirtnaps said:

It's there because it's the cheapest wizard and to empower nadirite weapons, the list I'm planning on running is basically the same at 1000pts. Brining Mortis guard is an alternative to running Petrifex Elite so you can pass off wounds to them if you want the Soulreaper to get stuck in.

I'd get bringing him if there was any Mortek Guard/Immortis Guard in the list. My concern here is they move their main force forward, and the Soulreaper is immediately shot and killed which takes out their magic and lowers their RD point gain. Either that, or they have him creep up with the Stalkers and allow their force to be split, with the Deathriders getting picked off. They're not too easy to kill but when there's only two units of 5 total it won't be that hard when their heaviest hitters are lagging behind.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Grdaat

[XReN]

5 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

I'd get bringing him if there was any Mortis Guard in the list. My concern here is they move their main force forward, and the Soulreaper is immediately shot and killed which takes out their magic and lowers their RD point gain. Either that, or they have him creep up with the Stalkers and allow their force to be split, with the Deathriders getting picked off. They're not too easy to kill but when there's only two units of 5 total it won't be that hard when their heaviest hitters are lagging behind.

He still has Look Out Sir, a 5++ death save and he can break the artefact to ignore lethal damage. And I'll stick to Stalkers for first playtest because with such low model count army I need all the speed

[Grdaat]

5 minutes ago, XReN said:

He still has Look Out Sir, a 5++ death save and he can break the artefact to ignore lethal damage. And I'll stick to Stalkers for first playtest because with such low model count army I need all the speed

The Look Out Sir is what I'm worried about. Like I said you either leave your heavy hitters behind which makes your frontline vulnerable, or you leave him alone in which case he gets shot. That's why I don't see a place for him in that sort of list.

For the record, I can guarantee from playing Legion of Azgorh that ignoring damage on a 5+ and negating wounds will not prevent you from getting shot to pieces. They can get both, and it's still easy to gun down undefended characters.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Grdaat

[XReN]

1 minute ago, Grdaat said:

The Look Out Sir is what I'm worried about. Like I said you either leave your heavy hitters behind which makes your frontline vulnerable, or you leave him alone in which case he gets shot. That's why I don't see a place for him in that sort of list.

I don't need to leave anyone behind, he can just march behind Stalkers, if he dies - it's okay, that means opponent spent resources on killing him and not my fighting units. 

[Grdaat]

11 minutes ago, XReN said:

I don't need to leave anyone behind, he can just march behind Stalkers, if he dies - it's okay, that means opponent spent resources on killing him and not my fighting units. 

So you're not speeding the Stalkers and Deathriders along then? If you intend to boost everyone's movement then you're not going to have enough RD to do it, and even if you only boost what you can you won't have any RD left for combat. That's one of the reasons I think including him is so odd, boosting him and the Stalkers means you're going to be using so much RD already and they're still going to be slower than the Deathriders, significantly so if you wanted to boost them too (boosted Deathriders are literally three times faster than base Soulreaper). You won't be able to keep up the speed motif with a footslogging character like that, especially if he's following around such expensive units that won't reach the front line as fast as the Deathriders, and if you're not using the Deathriders for their speed (and keeping them near the Stalkers/Soulreaper), then what's the point?

Also losing him means you've lost your unbinding roll, and you've also lost one of your RD points which would be a good trade for your opponent. That's not something you can just throw away and not regret.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Grdaat

[XReN]

15 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

So you're not speeding the Stalkers and Deathriders along then? If you intend to boost everyone's movement then you're not going to have enough RD to do it, and even if you only boost what you can you won't have any RD left for combat. That's one of the reasons I think including him is so odd, boosting him and the Stalkers means you're going to be using so much RD already and they're still going to be slower than the Deathriders, significantly so if you wanted to boost them too (boosted Deathriders are literally three times faster than base Soulreaper). You won't be able to keep up the speed motif with a footslogging character like that, especially if he's following around such expensive units that won't reach the front line as fast as the Deathriders, and if you're not using the Deathriders for their speed (and keeping them near the Stalkers/Soulreaper), then what's the point?

Also losing him means you've lost your unbinding roll, and you've also lost one of your RD points which would be a good trade for your opponent. That's not something you can just throw away and not regret.

There can hardly be a situation in which I need to speed up deathriders, if I go first I'll just move them onto objectives, use Stalker's CA (because re-rollable run is better than flat 3") and finish my turn, waiting. If my opponent goes first I'll probably won't need speed burst anyway.

[XReN]

And I very much can throw Reaper away and not regret it, I've won games with way more crippled army than that

[Grdaat]

2 minutes ago, XReN said:

There can hardly be a situation in which I need to speed up deathriders, if I go first I'll just move them onto objectives, use Stalker's CA (because re-rollable run is better than flat 3") and finish my turn, waiting. If my opponent goes first I'll probably won't need speed burst anyway.

I think you'd be surprised. Against any army with decent missile fire you're going to want to speed up the Deathriders (again, a Legion of Azgorh list comes to mind but they're hardly the only ones), which is why I was saying that you're either going to be lagging behind with 320 points, or you're going to lose the Soulreaper.

1 minute ago, XReN said:

And I very much can throw Reaper away and not regret it, I've won games with way more crippled army than that

It's not an issue of recovering from a hit, it's in taking a hit that you shouldn't be taking.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Grdaat

[XReN]

1 minute ago, Grdaat said:

I think you'd be surprised. Against any army with decent missile fire you're going to want to speed up the Deathriders (again, a Legion of Azgorh list comes to mind but they're hardly the only ones), which is why I was saying that you're either going to be lagging behind with 320 points, or you're going to lose the Soulreaper.

There is no way to engage a gunline properly without double turn, there is no re-roll charges available to deathriders, so I'll do what I always do when I win against shooting - I'll wait and take it to the jaw.

[Grdaat]

3 minutes ago, XReN said:

There is no way to engage a gunline properly without double turn, there is no re-roll charges available to deathriders, so I'll do what I always do when I win against shooting - I'll wait and take it to the jaw.

All right, if that's what you want to do. Just speaking from experience but that usually isn't so effective, not against lists that can afford to bring some form of decent multi/mortal wound firepower anyway.

[XReN]

8 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

All right, if that's what you want to do. Just speaking from experience but that usually isn't so effective, not against lists that can afford to bring some form of decent multi/mortal wound firepower anyway.

Than be our guest and share your tips on how to pilot melee army against shooting list, but without Legion of Azgorh since no one plays it where I am

[Grdaat]

2 minutes ago, XReN said:

Than be our guest and share your tips on how to pilot melee army against shooting list, but without Legion of Azgorh since no one plays it where I am

The problem is that I don't think the Bonereapers do fast lists all that well, since every support hero is too slow to keep up with them. If you want to mitigate the speed issue then then I'd at least recommend getting the Thermalrider Cloak on top of the Soulreaper to speed him up (especially with the movement boost, which will make him as fast as the Deathriders). It'll make the Soulreaper more fragile, but flying and the extra movement is something your list will appreciate if you need to get past melee units and into the ranged ones (especially if your opponent's already got something to deal with the Stalkers), not to mention it'll combo better with his unique spell.

[XReN]

And I'll share some of my experience on the matter:

For the last year I've been playing FEC against many different opponents and beat a lot of them. I've beat Skaven WLC-Acolites-Verminlord list, Anvilstrike list (but not proper one, my opponent has been using ballista drop alongside 9 longstrikes), 2 games at pair tournament against shooting skaven lists paired with melee forces, 2 games against BCR 3 thundertusks lists, 3 games against semi-shooting Seraphon summoning lists. And I've lost to shooting against ballista drop with old FEC battletome and against old Cunning Rukk.

[XReN]

3 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

The problem is that I don't think the Bonereapers do fast lists all that well, since every support hero is too slow to keep up with them. If you want to mitigate the speed issue then then I'd at least recommend getting the Thermalrider Cloak on top of the Soulreaper to speed him up (especially with the movement boost, which will make him as fast as the Deathriders). It'll make the Soulreaper more fragile, but flying and the extra movement is something your list will appreciate if you need to get past melee units and into the ranged ones (especially if your opponent's already got something to deal with the Stalkers), not to mention it'll combo better with his unique spell.

That is a good suggestion, however it doesn't tell me how you envision playing OBR against shooting lists.

[Grdaat]

53 minutes ago, XReN said:

That is a good suggestion, however it doesn't tell me how you envision playing OBR against shooting lists.

That'll depend heavily on who I'm up against and what they're using, as well as which Battleplan we're using. Speaking in a generalist sense, ideally I'd see if the opponent had a weaker flank (one meant more for grabbing objectives) and move the Liege and a Deathrider unit in position to engage or harass that, preferably grabbing objectives if they're along the way. If this just leads to delaying the advance of my opponent then I can live with that (though given their stats I doubt it'll end that way), since the other Deathriders can claim any objectives that are out of the way, and if my opponent also brought fast units then they can likely handle them as well, and then get them back to the Liege when they're finished. Given their speed it shouldn't be too hard to get them and come back when they're done.

As for the Stalkers and the Soulreaper, quickly move them up the board, unless I'm up against an opponent who get a bonus to their ranged to hit for standing still, in which case their range will likely be 16" to 18" and with this level of speed I can stay out of that with all my units to prevent them from getting their bonus, and if I get a double turn after moving then I'll still be able to make an easy charge.  When I'm able to close in, the Stalkers can hit the screen that will no doubt be hanging around the ranged units, while the Soulreaper can fly over them and engage the shooting unit(s) directly, preferably in a spot where he won't be hit by the screen's close combat attacks but preferably still within LoS range of the Stalkers (so likely along the unit's side then if the screen's in front).

If the Stalkers/Soulreaper need help then I can also send the other unit of Deathriders over if the flank looks particularly weak (or I'm particularly lucky) and there's no more easy objectives within range, or if I'm sure those objectives are in no danger of being seized by my opponent.

Do note that's just a general idea against a generic shooting list, one that's going up against some objective grabbers, some missile firepower and at least a minor screen to protect the missiles as they move up. I'm honestly not sure what I'd do if I was up against a more specialized list, such as the Legion of Azgorh one I've mentioned before. In that case I think I'd just straight up lose, since they seem uniquely suited to counter the Bonereapers thanks to their Magma Cannons being Hero/Elite unit erasers. A single shot would be all that's needed to remove Look Out Sir from the Soulreaper (if they wanted to be more cautious and not try deleting the Soulreaper immediately), which would be a death sentence if he had no cloak to keep up with the Deathriders. The Fireglaives also wouldn't have much trouble finishing off the Stalkers, especially if there was a second Cannon so if he had no Cloak that would be 320 points evaporating in only one turn.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Grdaat

[smartazjb0y]

5 hours ago, Major said:

My price list here is directly from GW. I didn't see the other leak but I am confident what i've put here are the prices Ozzies can expect on sale day.

You misunderstood me; what I'm saying is because we know your prices are right, then we can say confidently that some prices in the leaks are wrong

[Scurvydog]

All this talk about the support heroes keeping up, really drives it home how useful Arkhan is, as he can easily fly around where needed and extend spell ranges. With petrifex he will really benefit from +1 save, and I could see a scenario where running the aegis immortal battalion could be useful, it is only 80 points and you could have the morghasts guard Arkhan, and use the immortis guard where needed. 

Immortis guard fighting alongside harvesters and with support from Arkhan will be really annoying to remove from the table (especially as petrifex). Pepper ind some mortek guard and a catapult for some more ranged threat, and I think that could be a cool defensive army.

 

[choocheelo]

Has anyone think about competitive ossiarch roster? Two days that question broke my mind. 

Only what i think is 

Null miriad+aegis immortal bat.

Archai 4+ 5++vs magic, 5++ from warscroll 5++ from AE 6++ dm.

Immortis guard 3+ 5++vs magic, 5++ from AE 6++ dm. 

Or

Petrifex elite+aegis immortal bat.

Archai 3+ 5++ from warscroll  5++ from AE 6++ dm.

Immortis guard 2+ 5++ from AE 6++ dm. 

 

Too bad what Stalkers haven't "battleline if..."

[Lightbox]

So I'm definitely torn on what subfaction I want to play but leaning toward crematoriam because I like the sounds of their lore (slowly becoming aware they're throwaways) and exploding on death sounds super fun. I quite like the idea of the list on Warhammer community with lots of guard running around blowing up and getting healed but as stated that may be hard to pull off (and I don't like running massive units...) 

As I play more casual I'll probably very much just get what I wanna build/paint and see how it goes. Whilst I love the look of the spears the swords will probably be a better choice so I'm thinking I may very well just replace the sword blades with the spear tips which could look pretty swell. I'm also gonna look at back banners to add to the samurai esque theme they kinda have going on, will possibly do the masking tape and brass rod method since they seem difficult/expensive to buy (and would be hard to find in the correct scale) I also may paint their faces like masks as opposed to being skull faces to get a bit of a mempo theme.

Colour wise I'm considering the idea of the contrast with black drybrush over mentioned in the stormcast podcast for the flambe fellas but instead of yellows and oranges I might try blue, purple or green so it's less explody fire and more spirit energy so they can potentially be a different subfactions. I can also totally see that working well with a metallic drybrush instead of black for chamon.

It may be finally time to go and buy arkhan since the ressing and spells could be quite useful.