AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Sception]

3 hours ago, Overread said:

Yep the GW article even shows it with the fire reapers - so not only do they do damage when they do die (in close combat since if they die at range they wont' hit anything) but they can come back to life too! 

It's cool in theory but seems difficult to pull off.  The explosion rance on crematorians is very short, as is the healing range on the harvester.  Your harvester needs to be tight up there with your front lines, exposing it to attacks, to pull this off. Especially if you're the one charging, as the harvester eill have to charge too in order to stay in range.

Not saying it's bad, just really awkward positioning.  Wish the heal range was just a little bit wider.

Edited October 28, 2019 by Sception

[Panzer]

3 minutes ago, Sception said:

It's cool in theory but seems difficult to pull off.  The explosion rance on crematorians is very short, as is the healing range on the harvester.  Your harvester needs to be tight up there with your front lines, exposing it to attacks, to pull this off. Especially if you're the one charging, as the harvester eill have to charge too in order to stay in range.

Not saying it's bad, just really awkward positioning.  Wish the heal range was just a little bit wider.

Uhm ... the Harvesters place is in melee. You WANT him to charge and to be "exposed to attacks". That's its place. The healing is a nice bonus, but the main point of that unit is to deal damage.

Also the short range on the Crematorian explosion is a non-issue since it's supposed to be something that trigges in melee where everything stands close to eachother anyway.

[Overread]

Yep the harvester is a close combat monster that also has a healing aura. It's very much designed to be right in the thick of combat collecting body parts and dealing out death whilst repairing those around it. Pretty much only 3 models in the range are back-seat. The trebuchet, with the supporting chair wizard and Nagash. Everything else wants to move forward and be in close combat itself or in direct range of close combat supporting others. 

 

It's a very "in your face" army with powerful, but limited ranged options. It's actually surprising that archers don't form part of the force in any shape, plus they don't even have spears to throw. So its fully mashing up in combat. 

[Captain Badruk]

3 hours ago, NoMaDhOoK said:

No, you cannot bring back a unit with partial wounds. You can heal it (probably what they meant) but not bring back. 

The guard are 1 wound a piece so you can bring those back

The harvester can bring back models with more than 3 wounds because if something with 10 or more wounds dies near it, it heals D6 wounds (so you could, on a roll of 6, bring back a stalker or morghast model) 

You also can't bring back models whose entire unit is completely destroyed 

Is that in the general handbook? I had not seen a rule about not being able to Rez damaged models

[Skelebags]

1 minute ago, Captain Badruk said:

Is that in the general handbook? I had not seen a rule about not being able to Rez damaged models

It's the way the rez rules themselves are worded. You either heal a damaged model, or bring back models with a combined wounds characteristic up to what you heal. So the boneshaper either heals a model 3 wounds, or brings back models with a combined wounds characteristic of up to 3. Stalkers have a wounds characteristic of 4 and morghasts have 6, so only the harvester on his d6 heal can bring them back.

[Major]

On 10/24/2019 at 2:12 PM, Grdaat said:

Voting with your wallet does not make the game better; it's a vote that says nothing to the company and it causes the game to dwindle and die, just look at what happened to Warhammer Fantasy

What would you prefer? Australians and New Zealanders just go into a store and say "excuse me Mr Manager, please inform head office that I am against these egregious prices and wish to express this disgust buy paying for these little plastic men at the extremely high prices you have placed on them without delay. I will also be back next week for the release of the rest of the stuff that I am sure will be as grossly priced and look forward to it".? Yeah man that will teach em.

As far as it not making the game better goes, as someone who has worked in business for far too many years, I can tell you now that the things any business focuses on the most IS MONEY. If they push a product out and it makes little money, the shareholders get cranky and then they are forced to reflect and find out why, they ask their customers what they need to do and what went wrong if they cant see it themselves and then they move forward with threat knowledge and make the next attempt better.

What this is basically saying is that people should buy the models even if they think they are trash (which I honestly don't think they are and I will be buying some) and then to provide feedback. Mate, a GW exec will look at that feedback and say "well this blokes feedback does not match up with our sales figures. Our sales figures show this bloke is not correct in saying we released a bad product because if the product was bad our sales figures would show a dip and even our customers surely aren't silly enough to buy a product they aren't happy with... are they?"

 

On 10/24/2019 at 7:46 PM, Austin said:

Thankfully GW's a lot better now in that they actually try to engage with their community instead of only treating them like walking dollar bills

Nope... Nope that's what happens here. To the point GW now seriously limit the amount of stock independant stores (who usually charge 10% less than what you find in a GW store) can have so that more people are pushed into pre ordering and buying from a GW store at full "retail". If GW treated its customers like they cared about them, Australians and New Zealanders would not have to deal with higher prices (even after taking into consideration differences in wages and taxes) all thanks to a loop hole in laws around the types of products they sell. The fact GW takes advantage of this and knowingly ripps of customers in some places and not in another shows they care more about getting those figures in for each quarterly report than they do about a customer getting ripped off.

Conclusion: Army looks good, I dont think its bad and I will be getting some but these types of comments just come across as uninformed.

[Grdaat]

9 minutes ago, Major said:

What would you prefer? 

If you want to know what I'd prefer, then read the rest of my post.

[Evil Bob]

Is there going to be an allegiance abilitIes towards regen in this army?  The approach they took with Nighthaunt using specific models and spells is awkward.  So far that seems pretty similar with named characters and the Harvester in OBR.

[Dirtnaps]

1 hour ago, Evil Bob said:

Is there going to be an allegiance abilitIes towards regen in this army?  The approach they took with Nighthaunt using specific models and spells is awkward.  So far that seems pretty similar with named characters and the Harvester in OBR.

From the reviews of the tome that go through the whole thing there are no allegiance abilities that give regen. So it's only Nagash, Arkhan, Katakros, Bone Shapers and Harvesters that can heal units.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Dirtnaps

[Major]

2 hours ago, Grdaat said:

If you want to know what I'd prefer, then read the rest of my post.

Please not again. I already lost 3 minutes of my life I wont get back the first go over. Besides that, anything that starts with any rendition of "if you don't like it still buy it" isn't going to be well received but I am sure you knew that when you wrote it. Anything you said you would prefer after that statement is as irrelevant as the cost of a handgunner is to the building of a Death list.

Customers voting with their wallets is, not only their right, but also the best way to get the attention and send a message to any business. Like I said, I'm a buyer of these mini's and I like em. But if I wasn't I would vote with my wallet as I know many others are and I fully support them in their endeavours. If GW struggle as a result, then I hope they learn from it and make necessary changes (if indeed changes are found to be required).

Happy to discuss with you elsewhere or via PM however reading the above back, I think it's likely anything further is not relevant to this specific thread.

[Major]

Australian Retail Prices (AUS$) for upcoming releases of Bonereapers and others:

[Grdaat]

8 minutes ago, Major said:

Please not again. I already lost 3 minutes of my life I wont get back the first go over. Besides that, anything that starts with any rendition of "if you don't like it still buy it" isn't going to be well received but I am sure you knew that when you wrote it. Anything you said you would prefer after that statement is as irrelevant as the cost of a handgunner is to the building of a Death list.

Customers voting with their wallets is, not only their right, but also the best way to get the attention and send a message to any business. Like I said, I'm a buyer of these mini's and I like em. But if I wasn't I would vote with my wallet as I know many others are and I fully support them in their endeavours. If GW struggle as a result, then I hope they learn from it and make necessary changes (if indeed changes are found to be required).

Happy to discuss with you elsewhere or via PM however reading the above back, I think it's likely anything further is not relevant to this specific thread.

And any complaints you have over GW's prices are irrelevant because they have nothing to do with my post. I was talking about the design of the Bonereapers, not how much they cost. I was telling people that if they don't like them they should say why and say what they'd have changed instead of saying nothing at all. My post was decrying how people will ignore criticism by saying "just don't buy it then" instead of discussing how it could be improved.

Finally, if you think money has anything to do with my post, then that's because you misread the part where I said that GW no longer treats their customers as "only" being walking dollar bills. That sentence doesn't mean they've stopped treating customers like walking dollar bills, it means that they're doing other things in addition to that. I let that trail off before because this is not the place to discuss GW's pricing, it's a place to discuss the Bonereapers as a whole, and telling people who don't like their design "[shut up] and don't buy them" instead of listening to their grievances is the way to kill a hobby, not grow it.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Grdaat

[Dirtnaps]

9 minutes ago, Major said:

Australian Retail Prices (AUS$) for upcoming releases of Bonereapers and others:

These prices seem more in line with the Hedonites of Slaanesh release which had a bunch of all new models along with the current ones so I believe it. The Gothizzar Harvester is surprisingly cheaper than I thought it would be, I was expecting it to be over $100 at least.

Edited October 29, 2019 by Dirtnaps

[Captain Badruk]

3 hours ago, Skelebags said:

It's the way the rez rules themselves are worded. You either heal a damaged model, or bring back models with a combined wounds characteristic up to what you heal. So the boneshaper either heals a model 3 wounds, or brings back models with a combined wounds characteristic of up to 3. Stalkers have a wounds characteristic of 4 and morghasts have 6, so only the harvester on his d6 heal can bring them back.

See that's what I thought too until I read the designers not on the martek crawler which makes it seem like the wounds characteristic could mean the wounds the model currently has? That's the way it's worded in that profile and the ressurect mechanic on the mortisans scrolls is worded nearly the same

[Major]

5 minutes ago, Grdaat said:

Finally

❤️ you too mate. Have an amazing day.

[Major]

7 minutes ago, Dirtnaps said:

so I believe it

These are confirmed AUS prices with GW, I promise

[smartazjb0y]

15 minutes ago, Major said:

Australian Retail Prices (AUS$) for upcoming releases of Bonereapers and others:

Interesting, those mostly line up with the spreadsheet leak (though that leak was in USD), except for some outliers that seem to certainly be errors. We don't have the red painting handle here but the spreadsheet had the paint pot holder as $48 USD, quantity unknown, while this has it as the way more reasonable $13 AUS for 6 of them. 

With that in mind, it's possible/probable that some of the other prices in the leak are also incorrect, i.e. the Warbands for Warcry re-releasing potentially alongside the StD battletome. 

[Major]

53 minutes ago, smartazjb0y said:

except for some outliers that seem to certainly be errors

My price list here is directly from GW. I didn't see the other leak but I am confident what i've put here are the prices Ozzies can expect on sale day.

[Major]

No more save rolls against curse of years to stop the extra dice rolls???

Before Arkhan got a new warscroll, the FAQ on his CoY was:

Q: With Curse of Years, are rolls that may negate the mortal wounds inflicted by the spell taken immediately after the wounds are caused, but before you roll the dice again to see if any more mortal wounds are suffered by the target unit? If yes, do I get to roll for additional mortal wounds for wounds that were negated?
A: Yes to the first question, and no to the second question.

So Arkhan's new rules for Curse of years mentions nothing of that

It seems that the rules in his NEW scroll supercede his OLD scroll AND the FAQ on the old scroll? If so, bar the fact a 1 is now a fail and not an outright slaying, has Curse of years been made good again?
 

Edited October 29, 2019 by Major

[Sception]

5 hours ago, Panzer said:

Uhm ... the Harvesters place is in melee. You WANT him to charge and to be "exposed to attacks". That's its place. The healing is a nice bonus, but the main point of that unit is to deal damage.

Fine and good, but then bypassing the 'recycling explosions with the harvester' strategy is just a matter of targeting the harvester first.

[Arcian]

48 minutes ago, Major said:

No more save rolls against hand of dust to stop the extra dice rolls???

Before Arkhan got a new warscroll, the FAQ on his HoD was:

Q: With Curse of Years, are rolls that may negate the mortal wounds inflicted by the spell taken immediately after the wounds are caused, but before you roll the dice again to see if any more mortal wounds are suffered by the target unit? If yes, do I get to roll for additional mortal wounds for wounds that were negated?
A: Yes to the first question, and no to the second question.

So Arkhan's new rules for Hand of Dust:

"Hand of Dust has a casting value of 8. If successfully cast, pick 1 enemy model within 3" the caster. Then, take a dice and hide it in one of your hands. Your opponent must pick one of your hands. If they pick the one holding the dice, the spell has no effect. If they pick the empty hand, the enemy model is slain."

It seems that the rules in his NEW scroll supercede his OLD scroll AND the FAQ on the old scroll? If so, bar the fact a 1 is now a fail and not an outright slaying, has Hand of Dust been made good again?
 

I think you got nagash and arkhan mixed up there on your second section

[Major]

16 minutes ago, Arcian said:

I think you got nagash and arkhan mixed up there on your second section

bahaha sorry, multitasking isn't my strong suit. edditted!

[NoMaDhOoK]

3 hours ago, Captain Badruk said:

See that's what I thought too until I read the designers not on the martek crawler which makes it seem like the wounds characteristic could mean the wounds the model currently has? That's the way it's worded in that profile and the ressurect mechanic on the mortisans scrolls is worded nearly the same

When a warscroll refers to a "characteristic" . It always refers to the number on the warscroll istself (unmodified and total wounds). This is in the core rulebook somewhere (I don't have it on me at the moment) 

[XReN]

Going to make a list that is not Petrifex elite

Liege-Kavalos - 200
general - Immortal Ruler (the 5+ death save one)
artefact - Helm of the Overlord  (the +1 to hit aura one)

Soulreaper - 120
spell - Empowered Weapons
artefact - Guardian something (the 5+ death save one)

5 Kavalos Deathriders - 180
swords

5 Kavalos Deathriders - 180
swords

3 Necropolis Stalkers - 200

Kavalos Lance - 120

 

Unfortunately boneshaper can't make it into the list as it will be mere 10 points over the limit and I don't feel like swaping 3 stalkers for 3rd Deathrider unit

Edited October 29, 2019 by XReN

[Grdaat]

3 hours ago, Sception said:

Fine and good, but then bypassing the 'recycling explosions with the harvester' strategy is just a matter of targeting the harvester first.

Easier said than done, and it doesn't get rid of Arkhan or any Boneshapers you might bring.