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AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion


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I know its early, but I have to ask; is this madness:

Arch-Kavalos 220
Liege Kavalos 200

15 Deathriders 480 
15 Deathriders 480
5 Deathriders 180

Mortek Crawler 200
Gothizzar Harverster 200

Total 1960 


Keeping in mind that it doesn't leave room for a battalion which might be essential. Though I would guess dropping the 3rd deathriders into a mortek guard would free up enough points for a battalion to be added? One could also double up on either the Crawler or Gothizzar for either double the ranged support or, more likely, double the close combat and resurrection support. 

A slightly more practical/less skew list might be

Arch-Kavalos 220
Liege Kavalos 200

15 Deathriders 480 
10 Deathriders 360
10 Mortek Guard 130

Mortek Crawler 200
Gothizzar Harverster 200

Total 1790 

Basically dropping a few Deathriders to free up a few hundred points for adding more support, which could even be Morghasts or Stalkers/Guard. 

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1 hour ago, Victra said:

I'm running some simulations and I see that the Dread Falchions are only better than the Spirit Blades when rerolling saves. 1 in every 3 can have this weapon, but it looks underwelming. Am I missing something? Could be better to go full Spirit? 

I ran the numbers with Spirit Blades only using the criteria above.  Here's the results against a 4+ save

Spirit Swords Only  
Necropolis Stalkers (Reroll Saves)  
Necropolis Stalkers 4.444444
Necropolis Stalkers -1 Rend 5.555556
Necropolis Stalkers +1 Attack 5.333333
Necropolis Stalkers +1 to Hit 5.555556
Necropolis Stalkers +2 to Hit 5.555556
Necropolis Stalkers All (+1 to Hit) 8.333333
Necropolis Stalkers All (+2 to Hit) 8.333333

 

Spirit Swords Only  
Necropolis Stalkers (+1 Damage and -1 Rend)
Necropolis Stalkers 11.11111111
Necropolis Stalkers -1 Rend 13.33333333
Necropolis Stalkers +1 Attack 13.33333333
Necropolis Stalkers +1 to Hit 13.88888889
Necropolis Stalkers +2 to Hit 13.88888889
Necropolis Stalkers All (+1 to Hit) 20
Necropolis Stalkers All (+2 to Hit) 20

 

Also, I had a slight error in the data above where only had the spirit swords rend at -2 instead of -3 in the All +1 to hit data for offense, so here's the updated table.  I also updated it in the earlier post:

2 Spirit Swords and 1 Dread Falchion

Necropolis Stalkers (+1 Damage and -1 Rend)
Necropolis Stalkers 10.40740741
Necropolis Stalkers -1 Rend 11.88888889
Necropolis Stalkers +1 Attack 12.88888889
Necropolis Stalkers +1 to Hit 13.25925926
Necropolis Stalkers +2 to Hit 14.25925926
Necropolis Stalkers All (+1 to Hit) 18.66666667
Necropolis Stalkers All (+2 to Hit) 20


Spirits swords only are worse in defensive stance and better in precision stance unless you have full buffs.

Edited by Emissary
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army has a lot of pieces that you piece together to get interesting results

mortek are a meh move 4
but have a +1 to run and charge banner, Advance gives +3 to move, and Stalliarch gives run+charge at which point your move 4 guy is now...
traveling 7+D6+1 in move phase and charging 2D6+1 (can only charge within 12 though) meaning a blob can in the optimal case run 14'' then make a 12'' charge to achieve a total distance of 26'' in a turn

Edit: oh and the commitment so far is 1 RD and locking into Stalliach, so not a heavy investment points wise

Edited by Indecisive
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I am thinking of doing an Army with Bone Daddy Nagash himself with some Mortek Guard because if they come in boxes of 20 that is super reasonable $ wise. Can anyone give any advice on a semi comp list with 1 Nagash, 2 sets of 20 Mortek Guard; I am not sure what would be good to add next.

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2 hours ago, NkfPanda said:

I am thinking of doing an Army with Bone Daddy Nagash himself with some Mortek Guard because if they come in boxes of 20 that is super reasonable $ wise. Can anyone give any advice on a semi comp list with 1 Nagash, 2 sets of 20 Mortek Guard; I am not sure what would be good to add next.

I suggested this earlier:

 

Fun list idea:

Petrifex Elite

Nagash (880)

3 Immortis Guard (200)

20 Mortek Guard (260)

20 Mortek Guard (260)

20 Mortek Guard (260)

Whatever Endless Spells you want

Nagash saves on 2+, shifts his wounds to his guard, heals his guard, rezzes Morteks for free every turn, blasts enemy heroes with 8 spells a turn, heals himself if he somehow takes a wound, Mortek just take objectives and rez all day.

Might be stupid, but sounds hilariously fun. :)

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1 hour ago, LordPrometheus said:

I suggested this earlier:

 

Fun list idea:

Petrifex Elite

Nagash (880)

3 Immortis Guard (200)

20 Mortek Guard (260)

20 Mortek Guard (260)

20 Mortek Guard (260)

Whatever Endless Spells you want

Nagash saves on 2+, shifts his wounds to his guard, heals his guard, rezzes Morteks for free every turn, blasts enemy heroes with 8 spells a turn, heals himself if he somehow takes a wound, Mortek just take objectives and rez all day.

Might be stupid, but sounds hilariously fun. :)

Watch out for Evocators, I have the feeling they'll make this list cry.

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As far as theorycrafting tactics goes, would we be wanting to see our support heroes further up the field, tightly screened behind mortek or immortalis? Most of their abilities seem to be shorter ranged. Shaper requires 6” to heal/replace. Vorkmortian is 1”, 3”, 12” on his spells/abilities. Reaper is a little more melee centric with being able to blast any units within 3” or 1 within 18”. His melee isn’t bad could be enough to finish off if a unit was short a wound or two. And 2” range fits him safely behind a line of mortek to get those attacks in. Only the soul mason could be held back but even then that opens him up to be ported on. 

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Couple ideas I’ve been thinking of to start
 

Elites legion

Kavalos (200) 

Stone Mason (140)

Harvester (200)

Shield Corp: (770)

Boneshaper, Mortek 20/10/10

Aegis: (690)

Morghast, 2 Immortis Guard

2000

Another option could include dropping the Harvester for Mortek 20/20/10 and adding shrieker and predator spells for 2k as well. 
I know it’s early stages still but lists I see on here don’t have batallions added in? That’s a lot of drops for those lists. This one sits at 5 or 4 if you drop the harvester option.

Both the casters will be protected by a unit of immortis, harvester and shaper can spread out to heal/replenish Mortek. Morghasts can snipe an early objective or provide a small tar pit early game while stuff moves into position and bunkers down. 

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Is it correct that we can't use 50 points to buy relentless discipline?

 

planning on starting with a meeting engagement army, any advice on how to start it?

thinking of using a block of 20 guards, and some cavalry, but not sure what else

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1 hour ago, Nasnad said:

Is it correct that we can't use 50 points to buy relentless discipline. 

 

That's a good question. I would say probably not. You buy a command point, not RD, so technically no. Depends on what the book says.

I guess another question is then, can OBR use the generic command abilities e.g. reroll charge rolls and the new ones from GHB19? Or do they use RD points for alternatives? 

Edited by Heijoshin
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10 minutes ago, Heijoshin said:

I guess another question is then, can OBR use the generic command abilities e.g. reroll charge rolls and the new ones from GHB19? Or do they use RD points for alternatives? 

According to the reviews, they can't be used, you can only use RD points only for abilities on OB warscrolls, and Unstoppable Advance

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27 minutes ago, Platypus said:

Can normal command points be used for the OBR command abilities? Don't know if anyone can ally them in yet, but for the sake of argument, in a GA: Death army.

 

I don't see why not. They are command abilities and the restrictions regarding command points are part of the Bonereapers allegiance abilities.

 

The way I read it:

Ossiarch Bonereapers allegiance abilities prevent you from using regular command points, but instead give you Relentless Discipline points.

These can be spent on any command ability on Ossiarch Reaper Warscrolls and the ones provided in their Allegiance Abilities. This includes Arkhan and Nagash since they get the keywords if you put them in.

So no GHB2019 or Core Rules command abilities.

Edited by Sedraxis
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11 hours ago, Goldy751 said:

Looks like we get 20

91066E3D-1032-42BE-B1ED-30D3A89A4A07.jpeg

That might make me reconsider not buying them for their price.

 

I was wondering what is considered to be better: Nortek Guard with spears or with swords? (Imo as Koreans are mostly overkill for for example skeleton warriors)

Edited by JackStreicher
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7 hours ago, Obeisance said:

So after the box sold out online in Australia in an hour, I managed to order a copy.

What subfaction are people gonna do?

I think the +1 save one sounds solid and has a great scheme.

I'll be running 1000pt of Stalliarch Lords focusing on deathriders with a wizard to buff their spears with empower nadirite weapons for more damage on the charge. Sure it might not be the best list to run at 1000pts but I really like the idea of smashing into enemy units with cav, retreating with the Stalliarch command ability then coming back around for another charge.

2 hours ago, Platypus said:

Can normal command points be used for the OBR command abilities? Don't know if anyone can ally them in yet, but for the sake of argument, in a GA: Death army.

 

From what I've heard OBR do not get command points and instead get Relentless Discipline points so if that's true then they can't. They also don't have any allies so it's a good guess that they probably can't be allied in either. No idea how they'd work in a GA:Death army, my guess is they get RDP from any OBR heroes and units on a 6 like they do normally but I suspect there'll probably be an FAQ about that.

Edited by Dirtnaps
Misremembered what they need to roll for Relentless Discipline
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12 hours ago, Overread said:

I know its early, but I have to ask; is this madness:

Arch-Kavalos 220
Liege Kavalos 200

15 Deathriders 480 
15 Deathriders 480
5 Deathriders 180

Mortek Crawler 200
Gothizzar Harverster 200

Total 1960 


Keeping in mind that it doesn't leave room for a battalion which might be essential. Though I would guess dropping the 3rd deathriders into a mortek guard would free up enough points for a battalion to be added? One could also double up on either the Crawler or Gothizzar for either double the ranged support or, more likely, double the close combat and resurrection support. 

A slightly more practical/less skew list might be

Arch-Kavalos 220
Liege Kavalos 200

15 Deathriders 480 
10 Deathriders 360
10 Mortek Guard 130

Mortek Crawler 200
Gothizzar Harverster 200

Total 1790 

Basically dropping a few Deathriders to free up a few hundred points for adding more support, which could even be Morghasts or Stalkers/Guard. 

If you go deathrider heavy I don't think the harvester is the best recursion, although it does still hit like a truck.

To bring back a single 3 wound deathrider, the harvester needs to be next to a 5+ wound model when they die, roll a 4+ into a 5+. Or if it's a 10+ wound model its a 4+ into a 3+, with a 6 giving You 2 dudes back.

Dropping the harvester I think gives you room for the batallion, and if you can squeeze a boneshaper in there you can give him the relic that lets him heal a 2nd time on a 4+, giving you potentially 2 dudes back a turn.

Edited by Skelebags
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1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

I was wondering what is considered to be better: Nortek Guard with spears or with swords?

I'm personally leaning heavily towards swords.  While boxes of 20 make full units of 40 more viable, that's still imo too much invested into a single squad in an army that has trouble fitting everything.  Units of 20 make more sense to me, and on 25 mm bases I don't think you're going to get enough more attacks out of the spears to make up for the reduced rend, especially as in AoS it's often better to string out a unit for bubble wrap or objective purposes rather than block up.

Admittedly, though, the variety of 'wholly within' buffs and rules in OBR do reward blocking up morteks more than the LoN rules do for Skeleton Warriors or Grave Guard, so if you prefer the spears there's certainly some mechanical justification there.

Edited by Sception
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Right now for Mortek Guard I'm thinking that:

Unit of 10 - Swords

Unit of 20 - Swords/Spears 50/50 on either option

Unit of 30 - Spears

Unit of 40 - Spears

 

In general the bigger the unit the more important getting more models into combat range becomes, esp when you're considering aura buffs and the limited area you've got to work with as well as terrain and wrap around or blocking pathways etc....
Meanwhile with smaller units the added range becomes less of an issue and the bonus to rending far more attractive. The 20 unit split is mostly because its where I'd consider the gain/loss of each option to be about equal.

 

Of course one has to remember that in a real battlefield, even with the high defence and resurrection mechanics, the army is still going to take losses getting to the opponent. So a unit that starts with 20 would not be expected to make it to combat with all 20. 

 

 

At that point I think we get into specific opponent variety. If you're going against skaven and you know its mostly clan and plague rats the spears become more attractive in general, more range, more attacks and the rending isn't as much of an issue because their saves are already pretty poor. 
However if you're going against stormcast or even other reapers then the swords, even in large blocks of infantry, become more important because now you're dealing with an army with generally good saves across the board so the rending becomes that much more important. 

 

The bonus is that I don't think either option is a bad choice, both are very viable. Plus with 20 to a box and a high points cost it actually becomes more practical to build both options into a collection for variety of choice. 
 

 

 

 

 

Now for the Deathriders it might be a big different as spears get additional bonuses in combat for them. I've not really looked at the zoomd in youtube videos of their stats much yet, so I'll probably leave that choice to battletome arrival day. 

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