AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Indecisive]

battleline options more basic than expected, I totally thought they implied nagash unlocked immortis as battleline

really want to see how they fit into legions of nagash overall

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, El Syf said:

I’ll read the tome in depth once it arrives, just seems quite silly morghasts went down in points in ghb 2019 only to go up in this. In all honesty unbufded moegjasts feel 150 at most. And GW instead of making a horrendous model of Nagash now just make him to expensive to take. 860 why not just whack him back up to 900 and be done with it.

I feel the same way about morghasts. I played them yesterday in a Grand Host of Nagash (+1 A)  and figured that they‘re okay at best though 200 pts seemed too much for only 2 and that I would not take them again. The morghasts were also o e of the reasons why I did not get the Ofors VS Ossiarch box. and now they increase their costs again 😂🤣

Edited October 26, 2019 by JackStreicher

[Skelebags]

I feel like morghasts actually manage to find a niche in Ossiarchs that just isn't as useful in legions.

Like people have previously mentioned, they are the only Fly you get outside of "move like fly" on stalkers, nagash, and arkhan, and they give themselves the 6+++ thanks to the hekatos keyword.

In petrifex, they can be damn hard to kill and can soup up their output with extra rend if they need it.
In stalliarch harbingers become even more of an early game threat thanks to run and 3d6" charge, add in that +3" movement and you've got an average melee threat range around 24"-25". Throw in the battalion with stalkers in and your harbingers get to add an extra 6" to that on turn 1.
Ivory host lets them hit more accurately without requiring much in the way of support, but you do sacrifice some survivability for it.

So while they didn't get any actual changes to their warscroll, and stalkers and immortis are damn good, I'd say morghasts are more worth their points in this book and are different enough from our four-armed friends to be a viable option.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Skelebags

[Grdaat]

6 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

The Crematorians are those death players who wished they played Gitmobs  well, I can see some fun combos with the harvester, but the command ability, trait and artefact are all terrible, so this will probably be a "for fun" legion.

How is +1 Damage terrible? Also giving your guys effectively extra rend, while situational is not terrible.

[Izotzuhure]

I only had a quick look and I don't know what some of the hosts do or what the battalions do, but I'm thinking on something like this:

Katakros

Boneshaper + Soulmason or 2 Boneshaper

10 Mortek guard

10 Mortek Guard

10 Kavalos Deathriders

Gothizzard Harvester

2 Mortek Crawler

This army would be part of the +1 armour host so I'm not so dependent on Katakros's CA and so on the first turn I have extra tankyness. 

Katakros would be in the middle, followed by the crawlers so they can benefit of the +1 attack. They can destroy hordes and punish elite armies of they fail their save rolls. If they are hurt, they can use their special ammunition to be more dangerous. 

With the wizards I have the options of three spells but only 6 wounds back in total or two spells and 9 wounds back. One of them would have the CA farming spell and the other one either exploding attacks or defense. 

The Mortek Guard would hold a flank and grab objectives, while the Cavalla could charge the enemy. The Harvester could go either way to support and add extra punch. 

Maybe when I have a look to battalions I might change the list, but I like its possibilities. Would love to add some ES but I wouldn't know what to take at the moment.

 

[Malakithe]

7 hours ago, Sception said:

Bah, oh well.  Honestly it's probably for the best.  Can Vok's spell be used through the spellportals?  That doesn't change the range, just measures it from somewhere else.  With the recent points increase it's probably too inefficient to use on a spell that only works 1/3 of the time even after you successfully cast it, but still.

Volmortian is also a named guy which puts him in the Mortis Praetorians Legion and therefore wont benefit from the other Legions. 

[Malakithe]

33 minutes ago, Izotzuhure said:

I only had a quick look and I don't know what some of the hosts do or what the battalions do, but I'm thinking on something like this:

Katakros

Boneshaper + Soulmason or 2 Boneshaper

10 Mortek guard

10 Mortek Guard

10 Kavalos Deathriders

Gothizzard Harvester

2 Mortek Crawler

This army would be part of the +1 armour host so I'm not so dependent on Katakros's CA and so on the first turn I have extra tankyness. 

Katakros would be in the middle, followed by the crawlers so they can benefit of the +1 attack. They can destroy hordes and punish elite armies of they fail their save rolls. If they are hurt, they can use their special ammunition to be more dangerous. 

With the wizards I have the options of three spells but only 6 wounds back in total or two spells and 9 wounds back. One of them would have the CA farming spell and the other one either exploding attacks or defense. 

The Mortek Guard would hold a flank and grab objectives, while the Cavalla could charge the enemy. The Harvester could go either way to support and add extra punch. 

Maybe when I have a look to battalions I might change the list, but I like its possibilities. Would love to add some ES but I wouldn't know what to take at the moment.

 

You wont have much board presence with that. You'll even be outnumbered by Ironjawz and Oogrs lol both of which are supremely faster then the bonebros. Think about that...

[TheKingInYellow]

11 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

You wont have much board presence with that. You'll even be outnumbered by Ironjawz and Oogrs lol both of which are supremely faster then the bonebros. Think about that...

I'm not sure how this army gets board presence.  All the Battleline is expensive and everything else is Elite.

[Grdaat]

I'm a little curious just how much I can recycle units with a Crematorian setup.

A Liege-Kavalos just because, 3 Boneshapers, 40 Mortek Guard, 6 Immortis Guard, 2 Harvesters, and all the endless spells.

Not really looking for the most ideal list or anything like that, because this isn't the thread for it and I'm more interested in discussing the unit mechanics over the army composition.

Unfortunately an army like this would be way too expensive at the moment (real money wise that is, game wise it comes to 2000 points flat), but it seems like the army would be easy to abuse. Harvesters each get a roll for any model removed within 3" (if they're together then I could potentially bring back/heal 2 wounds each time a single model dies), Boneshapers bring models back if they're out of range of the Harvesters and Immortis Guard makes sure nobody goes away for long. I don't see it Crematorians being able to beat the Slaanesh or Flesh Eaters, but I'm not really planning to, I'm mostly curious how many times I can make my guys explode before the game ends and how I should maximize this.

Do note that because this isn't a thread about building a list, I just grouped up all models of a type. For example the 40 Mortek Guard are 3 units, one of 20 and two of 10 each. Like I said, I'm not too interested in good army composition, just how much I can maximize my explosion factory, and how effective the explosions will be over the course of a game.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Grdaat

[Malakithe]

47 minutes ago, TheKingInYellow said:

I'm not sure how this army gets board presence.  All the Battleline is expensive and everything else is Elite.

Thats what ive been saying this whole time. The points costs are just too high. For your list I would drop bone daddy Kata. He is literally 1/4 your points. Id rather have more bodies

[Izotzuhure]

11 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Thats what ive been saying this whole time. The points costs are just too high. For your list I would drop bone daddy Kata. He is literally 1/4 your points. Id rather have more bodies

Alternatively, I could split the Kavalos into two units and lose one of the crawlers/harvesters to maximise the guard with a unit of 40, using two boneshapers to get more healing. 

 I know that Katakros it's quite expensive, but rule of cool > all, so I want to see how to make him useful. Might take a while until the army's been tested to get a list with him as a key part of it. 

[Grdaat]

16 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

Thats what ive been saying this whole time. The points costs are just too high. For your list I would drop bone daddy Kata. He is literally 1/4 your points. Id rather have more bodies

I have to agree. Any character more expensive than Zandtos is just too expensive in an army that cannot have allies. Katakros' command abilities aren't going to help you that much if he doesn't have an army to support.

[Sception]

2 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Volmortian is also a named guy which puts him in the Mortis Praetorians Legion and therefore wont benefit from the other Legions. 

Boo, didn't catch the praetorian keyword.  Did they really have to give all three heroes to the same legion? 

[Scurvydog]

47 minutes ago, Sception said:

Boo, didn't catch the praetorian keyword.  Did they really have to give all three heroes to the same legion? 

Yea that part sucks, especially as the praetorians are so bad without Katakros.

It will also be hard to fit Zandtos in when you run Katakros, and if you are playing Praetorians without Katakros, then what are you doing? So basically 2 useless special characters, which is sad.

Also I suspect many armies would like to put the first artefact not forced by a legion on a Liege Kavalos, with that sweet 12" +1 hit bubble hat, it is sooo good.

[Izotzuhure]

Anybody knows what do the battalions do? 

Also, if no allies, I assume no mercenaries either, right? 

[Grdaat]

20 minutes ago, Izotzuhure said:

Anybody knows what do the battalions do? 

Also, if no allies, I assume no mercenaries either, right? 

Only no mercenaries if you bring Arkhan or Nagash I believe, otherwise you can get them.

[PraetorDragoon]

9 hours ago, Grdaat said:

The Morghasts do get better when you put them in perspective with the abilities they now have access to (+3" move, +6" pregame move with a cheap battalion, +1 save, additional Rend), as well as the fact that your healers now heal and resurrect on a flat 3 which naturally favours Morghasts. Nagash however is way overcosted compared to what he offers, and I don't think you'll ever use him to get those points back.

I personally am not fond of the thought that their points are made with taking the +1 save legion in mind. That throws balance out of whack.

[Grdaat]

14 minutes ago, PraetorDragoon said:

I personally am not fond of the thought that their points are made with taking the +1 save legion in mind. That throws balance out of whack.

I don't think it is, I think it's made with the idea that you'll use them alongside their boosted healers, that you'll use your command ability to boost their move, and that you'll be further buffing them with your other characters. What I gave is just one example, they're worth their points so long as you've got a game plan on how to use them, even if you're not taking them in a Petrifex Elite army.

[Malakithe]

2 hours ago, Sception said:

Boo, didn't catch the praetorian keyword.  Did they really have to give all three heroes to the same legion? 

It can go one of two ways; all the named guys cant be included at all in other sub-factions or they can be included but dont gain the benefits. No one is 100% on which yet

2 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Yea that part sucks, especially as the praetorians are so bad without Katakros.

It will also be hard to fit Zandtos in when you run Katakros, and if you are playing Praetorians without Katakros, then what are you doing? So basically 2 useless special characters, which is sad.

Also I suspect many armies would like to put the first artefact not forced by a legion on a Liege Kavalos, with that sweet 12" +1 hit bubble hat, it is sooo good.

Mortis Praetorians is terrible on its own unless your running Katakros...which is just bad design

[Skelebags]

8 minutes ago, Malakithe said:

It can go one of two ways; all the named guys cant be included at all in other sub-factions or they can be included but dont gain the benefits. No one is 100% on which yet.

In the GMG review video, you can read this part. Basically it says that you pick a legion keyword for your army, every OSSIARCH BONEREAPER (caps to show keyword) gets the legion keyword unless they already have a keyword. It works out as you can take the named dudes in any legion, they just don't get any of the legion bonuses unless you picked Mortis Praetorian.

[Fuggorf]

Just in case I've missed something, we'll only ever be able to ressurect Mortek Guard and the Deathriders yeah? No other units have models with a wounds characteristic of 3 or less?

[Incineroar87]

I've seen some people mention that Nagash and Arkhan knows all the lore spells ? Is there a specific place in the battletome that mentions this as its not on their warscrolls ?

[Cargo Cult]

Just checking in. Where do we find the war scrolls?? 

Thx

[Skelebags]

6 minutes ago, Fuggorf said:

Just in case I've missed something, we'll only ever be able to ressurect Mortek Guard and the Deathriders yeah? No other units have models with a wounds characteristic of 3 or less?

You can rez stalkers and even morghasts with the harvester, it's just very difficult.

6 minutes ago, Incineroar87 said:

I've seen some people mention that Nagash and Arkhan knows all the lore spells ? Is there a specific place in the battletome that mentions this as its not on their warscrolls ?

It's in the battletome right above the list of lore spells.

1 minute ago, Cargo Cult said:

Just checking in. Where do we find the war scrolls?? 

Thx

 On the AoS app ^-^

[Scurvydog]

Just now, Incineroar87 said:

I've seen some people mention that Nagash and Arkhan knows all the lore spells ? Is there a specific place in the battletome that mentions this as its not on their warscrolls ?

It is stated at the spell lore in the text above the spells. This is also why I think Arkhan hits the sweet spot for this army, he will always have something useful to cast. The spell protection of Nagash gives a 5+ ignore wounds and if you take any damage after the combat phase, then you can teleport him away and the spell then ends, but not before that, so it is an amazing tool to keep him alive.

Arkhans major problem is relatively poor surviveability, so this and possibly a unit of immortis guards will work well I think.