AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Obeisance]

Boooooooooooooooooooo *breathe* oooooooooooooooooooooo.

I'll probably have to take Hold the Line or something.

Still, list-wise, Mir Kainan or no?

 

[Hellberg]

4 hours ago, Obeisance said:

Boooooooooooooooooooo *breathe* oooooooooooooooooooooo.

I'll probably have to take Hold the Line or something.

Still, list-wise, Mir Kainan or no?

 

You could take Hold The Line or Prized Sorcery as you have 2 wizards in your list (Nagash and Mr. Kainan).

I think Mr. Kainan could work, stat wise he is really good value to me. His ability Executioner’s Strike is pretty sick. Don't forget that his keyword is Mortis Praetorians though, so he doesn't benefit from Petrifex worsening rend or improving rend from bludgeon. 

[Hamicron]

The other thing is Kainans Reapers come with Mir and they are surprisingly tough for 5 single wound guys. Had one of them survive 2 chaos knights and a Lord on Manticore for 2 turns by himself! 5 extra bodies is so helpful in Bonereapers. 

[baiardo]

@Obeisanceyou almost sell them!🤣

[Obeisance]

Biggest problem with taking Mir Kainan is the fact I give up Endless Duty. Morteks love Endless Duty. But they also love Bludgeon and Shieldwall. But I suppose it doesn't matter, now that I can run multiple Bludgeons again.

It's also weird, but my army wouldn't have a relic or warlord trait as both my characters are named.

And yeah- the 5 extra Morteks are super useful. Scoring unit, screening unit, a unit to fill out another battalion slot, make it easier to run 3 units together and score the battle tactic, more models to zone with.. yeah. It's almost worth it just for the Reapers.

[Sooper88]

On 8/27/2021 at 8:17 AM, jhamslam said:

Arkhan finally got nerfed too, he WAS really good with that mystic shield gun

Was he a problem though? OBR was 35-42% win rate in tournaments and the only list that won anything didn't run him. I don't think it was necessary to nerf him, IMO. I'm guessing they did it just so he didn't have something Nagash didn't

[jhamslam]

3 minutes ago, Sooper88 said:

Was he a problem though? OBR was 35-42% win rate in tournaments and the only list that won anything didn't run him. I don't think it was necessary to nerf him, IMO. I'm guessing they did it just so he didn't have something Nagash didn't

Ill put it a bit differently. Being able to shield wall every mortek block with this new FAQ AND mystic shield gun would have been insanely good in Petrifex elite. Almost too good. The reason we werent winning is cus we got absolutely murdered by the first FAQ since our whole design is based on spamming CA. Hell Null Myriad as a legion is useless if you cant

Now theres an actual conversation / choice to be had between Mortis Praetorians with Katakros and 3+ mortek, or the slightly more offensive but still pretty tough petrifex elite.

 

Edited August 30, 2021 by jhamslam

[Sooper88]

4 hours ago, jhamslam said:

Ill put it a bit differently. Being able to shield wall every mortek block with this new FAQ AND mystic shield gun would have been insanely good in Petrifex elite. Almost too good. The reason we werent winning is cus we got absolutely murdered by the first FAQ since our whole design is based on spamming CA. Hell Null Myriad as a legion is useless if you cant

Now theres an actual conversation / choice to be had between Mortis Praetorians with Katakros and 3+ mortek, or the slightly more offensive but still pretty tough petrifex elite.

 

Fair argument. I can see your point of view. My thought personally is that the Mystic Shield spam in a way makes up for the guaranteed all out defense every other army had, so if you needed to add defense on something critical like a Harvester, you had that reliability somewhat through Mystic Shield that other armies had. Now you don't necessarily have that.

I play in a pretty shooting heavy meta so I don't think I'll keep running Harvester anymore because I barely, but fairly consistently kept him alive as is with mystic shield up and now that's a lot less likely to go off on my key target, I'll probably pass him up for more bodies.

[Pookie]

3 hours ago, Sooper88 said:

Fair argument. I can see your point of view. My thought personally is that the Mystic Shield spam in a way makes up for the guaranteed all out defense every other army had, so if you needed to add defense on something critical like a Harvester, you had that reliability somewhat through Mystic Shield that other armies had. Now you don't necessarily have that.

I play in a pretty shooting heavy meta so I don't think I'll keep running Harvester anymore because I barely, but fairly consistently kept him alive as is with mystic shield up and now that's a lot less likely to go off on my key target, I'll probably pass him up for more bodies.

I’m in the same boat, I see list after list with harvester, sometimes 2, and wonder how the hell they function…

Everyone in my area knows the danger they pose, and with so much shooting they are deleted pretty quickly. 
 

I’m in the process of painting some immortis guard to replace him, and give Arkhan a chance at surviving the shooting I face in 2/3 games. 

[AaronWilson]

I'll be playing Nagash build on Thursday, borrowing Owen Jacksons list I'm going - 

Nagash, Kainans reapers, 2x20 mortrek, riders, head, portal. 

[jhamslam]

16 hours ago, Sooper88 said:

Fair argument. I can see your point of view. My thought personally is that the Mystic Shield spam in a way makes up for the guaranteed all out defense every other army had, so if you needed to add defense on something critical like a Harvester, you had that reliability somewhat through Mystic Shield that other armies had. Now you don't necessarily have that.

I play in a pretty shooting heavy meta so I don't think I'll keep running Harvester anymore because I barely, but fairly consistently kept him alive as is with mystic shield up and now that's a lot less likely to go off on my key target, I'll probably pass him up for more bodies.

Honestly THATs the Mystic shield target in Petrifex for me. Most shooting is -1 rend, so we ignore it entirely. a 3+ Harvester that can only really take MWs is still a tough target and takes a lot of investment and they still have a tough fight removing Mortek Guard off the field

[Sooper88]

16 hours ago, AaronWilson said:

I'll be playing Nagash build on Thursday, borrowing Owen Jacksons list I'm going - 

Nagash, Kainans reapers, 2x20 mortrek, riders, head, portal. 

Hope you don't run into Sons. Good luck!

[AaronWilson]

6 hours ago, Sooper88 said:

Hope you don't run into Sons. Good luck!

I think I'm playing against Stormcast + Gotrek. 

[simakover]

is kainan good? worth buying? 

[AaronWilson]

2 minutes ago, simakover said:

is kainan good? worth buying? 

For 190 you get a wizard, a decent beatstick & a resilent set of models. I think they're pretty decent for their points cost. 

[Sception]

Kainan's Reapers aren't amazing in and of themselves, but they are a very nice for their points cost, and fill a useful niche.

[Obeisance]

Well, I got a game against Skaven tonight.

Knowing my buddy, it's going to be Thanquol, multiple Cannons and a lot of shooting. I don't see it working out well. lol.

But I'll give it my best shot.

...

The more I play V3, the more I dislike how shooting feels like it's way better.

[jhamslam]

12 hours ago, Obeisance said:

Well, I got a game against Skaven tonight.

Knowing my buddy, it's going to be Thanquol, multiple Cannons and a lot of shooting. I don't see it working out well. lol.

But I'll give it my best shot.

...

The more I play V3, the more I dislike how shooting feels like it's way better.

yeah my major gripe about AoS is terrain isnt given enough importance. AoS Terrain on tables tends to be so sparse, it may as well not be there and interaction with it hardly ever comes up in games

Terrain SHOULD be more impactful, the center should have obscuring pieces your opponent cant just alpha shoot you.

 

[Jabbuk]

24 minutes ago, jhamslam said:

yeah my major gripe about AoS is terrain isnt given enough importance. AoS Terrain on tables tends to be so sparse, it may as well not be there and interaction with it hardly ever comes up in games

Terrain SHOULD be more impactful, the center should have obscuring pieces your opponent cant just alpha shoot you.

 

That's interesting. Fair point. At the same time, I can't help but feel like too much terrain obstructs the board for bigger bases. In my circle, we have some guys that like to do big terrain setups, more "thematic". In more than one occasion, I was playing IJ, and felt like I couldn't move my cav or my MK where I wanted and it kinda sucked the fun out of the game for me. While on his side, he didn't have big bases so it put him in an advantageous position. 

GW put a minimum # of 8 terrain pieces and I think it's alright for me. The people you play with can always put more if they want. It's a minimum. I guess it's up to the TO, huh.

 

[Sception]

I think 3e's number of terrain pieces is enough, but I do wish they did more in general.  More vision obstruction, more cover, more impediments to movement, etc.  The die roll for a random affect that doesn't usually affect as that much doesn't really do it for me.  I've heard 40k has better terrain rules in 9th, if that's true then it's too bad they weren't ported over.

Another problem is terrain GW actually makes.  The 'forest' is three trees without even a surface to put them on.  The available 'buildings' are all pretty small and flimsy, and either ruined or with construction barely started.  No official hills, or water bodies.  No currently available fortifications or castle walls.  No larger, multileveled structures, complete or otherwise.  No elevated walkways or bridges.  The graveyard kit is pretty good, and there's a bunch of faction-specific pieces that are all at least interesting to look at if not to move around on.  But GW only seems motivated to write rules for discrete first party terrain models, and their current selection outside of faction terrain is threadbare and unexciting.

Which is a shame, since AoS's setting absolutely supports exciting terrain offerings in the narrative.  outcrops of living rock, carniverous plants, upside-down floating pyramids, ancient overgrown city walls and ruins, rivers of water, ice, lava, or magical energy, etc.  You can scratch build some of that stuff yourself, but since GW doesn't make it the game rules don't support it.

It's even more frustrating, because GW /used/ to make a lot of decent terrain.  Basic modular hill and forest kits (the current kit is, if anything a /downgrade/ from the citadel woods), a somewhat bland but serviceable castle, the big impressive khorne skull hill, a whole bunch of cool, large buildings like the watchtower and the fortified manse and the epic Skullvane Manse.  Even some of the more exciting early AoS terrain like the khornate fortifications and the dragonfate dias are gone.  The stormvault stuff isn't terrible, even if it isn't as good, but I doubt even that will be here long.  Most of the warcry scenery was already unavailable back when the 2020 GHB made it near about the only scenery with official matched play rules support that season.

It's honestly kind of dire.

[Sooper88]

So, as far as competitive lists are concerned right now, do you think Umbral Spellportal is 100% must have for Nagash? I can see the obvious benefits for why it is good for him, but I also see myself eyeing some spicy lists that drop it to allow more points invested into the rest of the army, particularly this list: (see below).

 

This list offers more Mortek with Boneshaper back up, and Helm of the Ordained adding a nice aura to our Mortek. Obviously, Hand of Dust will be less consistent but perhaps Nagash can still ear his paycheck without?

[AaronWilson]

Played a game last weekend, Petrifex v LotFP on Tectonic Interference. I ran Liege (Petrifex CT + Artefact), Soulmason, Boneshaper, 30 Mortek, 20 Mortek, 2 x 5 Deathriders, Harvester, Crawler. 

Managed to get a 26-21 win. LVP was the crawler - did not do a single wound all game and failed it's 8+ to snipe the bilepiper. MVP was my liege, tanked Bel'akor + Khorne DP to deny slay the warlord. 

Will look to get Arkhan in the list, unsure whether to replace crawler or harvester but thinking most likely harvester. I like the threat of the one shot to keep coherency honest & have some ranged presence. Will drop Boneshaper & Crawler to slot Arkhan in. 

[Btimmy]

I recently participated in a 3k tournament and ended up going 4-1, winning best death. Here is the list I used for the curious:

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Mortis Praetorians
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Charge one
LEADERS
Arch-Kavalos Zandtos (205)**
Katakros, Mortarch of the Necropolis (470)**
- General
Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (970)*
UNITS
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (190)**
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
10 x Mortek Guard (140)*
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (280)*
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (280)**
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
ARTILLERY
Mortek Crawler (215)*
Mortek Crawler (215)**
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
**Battle Regiment
TOTAL: 2965/2000 WOUNDS: 132

 

General thoughts: 
Crawlers are either very very good, or you are hoping your opponent is failing to roll 3 ups. Served me very well against GSG and BCR in rounds 1 and 5, less so against SoB, and the OBR mirror. 

Nagash miscasted on average every other turn. When he works, its amazing, throw out 3-4 buffs, then charge in and slap 4d3 mortals on something. But when he first casts protection of Nagash, then immediately after miscasts... not ideal. 

+1 hit, save and rr1's to hit and save made some matchups feel almost impossible to lose. Didn't help against my one loss which was SoB with Kragnos (abundance of roar and rend 3) but I was easily able to handle DoK and the BCR list due to the insane durability that the stacking auras give. 

Guard are solid as always but rend 1 is precious little in current AoS, they mainly won through sheer weight of dice and my opponents failing 3/4 up saves. 

Honestly not sure how I would adjust the list for 2k, the inability to play with the new command abilities really hurts, and I failed more than one charge because my opponent redeployed and I didn't have access to my reroll triumph. 

[Champasaur]

Hey umm... Why does Nagash have the priest tag on the new Age of Sigmar app? Surely that must be a typo or mistake.

[AaronWilson]

2 hours ago, Champasaur said:

Hey umm... Why does Nagash have the priest tag on the new Age of Sigmar app? Surely that must be a typo or mistake.

It is a mistake.