AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[SilverJelly]

57 minutes ago, Sception said:

that's the "new" formation from teclis?  Is that the only new obr crunch from teclis?

From the leaks I have seen, that's all we are getting. Sorry for the potato image but thats how it was given to me. 

[Sception]

bleh.  That's unfortunate.

[Phasteon]

4 hours ago, SilverJelly said:

From the leaks I have seen, that's all we are getting. Sorry for the potato image but thats how it was given to me. 

This wouldnt be so bad as the stalliarch rules are pretty good actually and make big deathrider units and stalkers VERY fast and dangerous - getting a benefit from the command ability to potentially save some RDP is ok - BUT - hooooly moly are the command trait and artifact bad - worse ones in the whole tome by far and probably in whole Aos. 

+D3 chances to deal a MW on a 6, so basically additional 0,5 MWs ?? I mean... why not just deal MWs on a 5+ instead.. its an artifact and the liege would still only cause about 2-3 MWs on the charge. 

 

Sad

[Heijoshin]

Wow, ok??

Talk about uninspired....

This may go from "garbage" to "slightly less garbage" if its for all units in the army. But I doubt it will be. 

[Sutek]

The Stalliarch Lords CA can only be used on mounted troops so it's only a few of the units.  If they removed the mounted requirement then this would be a big boost.

[Heijoshin]

1 hour ago, Sutek said:

The Stalliarch Lords CA can only be used on mounted troops so it's only a few of the units.  If they removed the mounted requirement then this would be a big boost.

ah yeah true. I should say "units it applies to that are outside of the batallion". 

You are right though, that if they made it for any unit, regardless of mount, then I would be pretty excited for it. 
 

Edited March 26, 2021 by Heijoshin

[Scurvydog]

Why not just take the battalion and it is free to retreat and charge anyway, which was already what made the stalliarch command pointless...

[Btimmy]

2 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

Why not just take the battalion and it is free to retreat and charge anyway, which was already what made the stalliarch command pointless...

That battalion has some positioning requirements, gotta keep the horses within a certain distance of the lord. This one lets you send them off in different directions and maybe recoup some RDP. Not saying its good, but it encourages different playstyles. 

[Scurvydog]

1 hour ago, Btimmy said:

That battalion has some positioning requirements, gotta keep the horses within a certain distance of the lord. This one lets you send them off in different directions and maybe recoup some RDP. Not saying its good, but it encourages different playstyles. 

Yea just disappointed our new stuff is doubling down on the most pointless thing I could have come up with. OBR has now been part of Wrath of the Everchosen and got nothing there and now BR Teclis, we are not likely to see OBR take center stage anytime soon, so this was the chance to get something interesting to mix things up. Most of all I had hoped for battleline options, as my lists end up so samey as mortek and kavalos eat up so many points...

[Btimmy]

1 minute ago, Scurvydog said:

Yea just disappointed our new stuff is doubling down on the most pointless thing I could have come up with. OBR has now been part of Wrath of the Everchosen and got nothing there and now BR Teclis, we are not likely to see OBR take center stage anytime soon, so this was the chance to get something interesting to mix things up. Most of all I had hoped for battleline options, as my lists end up so samey as mortek and kavalos eat up so many points...

Gonna need a second release of units for anything like this to change. I imagine eventually OBR will get the LRL treatment and have a series of new units added, probably with another battletome. If not, yeah looks like its going to be Katakros + MP + Double Crawler for the foreseeable future. 

[Phasteon]

10 hours ago, Btimmy said:

Gonna need a second release of units for anything like this to change. I imagine eventually OBR will get the LRL treatment and have a series of new units added, probably with another battletome. If not, yeah looks like its going to be Katakros + MP + Double Crawler for the foreseeable future. 

What would be nice additions to OBR anyway? 

- Archers. We‘ve seen the model in the new Underworlds Warband and its pretty obvious what a unit like that would look like ruleswise. 

Would really help with range pressure. 

- What about a unit of „half skeletal - half shadow“ assassin/skirmishers with some kind of teleport outside 9“ mechanic to threaten backline targets / weak characters / grab unprotected objectives. 

- Chariots were mentioned and could also fill a nice role of „beefier monstrous cavalry“. Probably sth around 6-8 wounds, lots of different attacke between mounts and charioteers and some nice special rules. 

- A unit of „lesser Mortisan acolytes“ that can rebuild models/ cast spells/ and maybe have some range missiles. 

- More missile attacks in general. EVERY named wizard has some kind of ranged attack. Let Arkhan please throw some kind of Dark Energy bolt to weaken targets. 

- Rework the Spell Lore. Most of the time the spells feel so useless.. yeah reinforce weapons / shields need to always be up but lets be real here... shields effectively gives +1 to the deathless save against MW only and weapons does sth every LRL unit can get by design... using 2 spellcasts on our expensive mages feels a bit too taxing.. there are some nice shenanigans you can pull off with protection of Nagash - no hate on that. 

 

But Arcane Command, Mortal Contract and Drain Vitality just feel so lacking. 

I think regarding our weaknesses in general „low range threat / no shenanigans, very straightforward gameplay“ our spell lore is a big reason for that. 

 

In general I still rate the battletome as pretty well designed but there are definately many things that could be improved in the future. 

One last note: 

Morghasts. 

I dont know what, but they need some sort of help.. They also feel very lacking. 

 

[Scurvydog]

I still cant get over that the battalion in broken realms is made of the exact same models as a Kavalos lance battalion.

The Liege must have both the terrible stalliarch lords artifact (worst artifact in the entire game possibly) and trait. He is named but gains nothing else, so unique rules despite all these limitations.

The only effect is to regain 1 RDP on a 4+ when doing the stalliarch command...

Why ever take that, the Kavalos lance is more flexible, has the same units and it gives 1 free use of the deathrider wedge once per turn and also gives retreat and charge for free within 12" of the Liege. For any subfaction too. Even without the last part, I think I'd rather just have 1 free wedge ability for sure, than the 50/50 chance when doing a retreat move.

The FeC battalion is also equally terrible. I guess the write really likes their aelves and hates death...

[Btimmy]

3 hours ago, Phasteon said:

What would be nice additions to OBR anyway? 

- Archers. We‘ve seen the model in the new Underworlds Warband and its pretty obvious what a unit like that would look like ruleswise. 

Would really help with range pressure. 

- What about a unit of „half skeletal - half shadow“ assassin/skirmishers with some kind of teleport outside 9“ mechanic to threaten backline targets / weak characters / grab unprotected objectives. 

- Chariots were mentioned and could also fill a nice role of „beefier monstrous cavalry“. Probably sth around 6-8 wounds, lots of different attacke between mounts and charioteers and some nice special rules. 

- A unit of „lesser Mortisan acolytes“ that can rebuild models/ cast spells/ and maybe have some range missiles. 

- More missile attacks in general. EVERY named wizard has some kind of ranged attack. Let Arkhan please throw some kind of Dark Energy bolt to weaken targets. 

- Rework the Spell Lore. Most of the time the spells feel so useless.. yeah reinforce weapons / shields need to always be up but lets be real here... shields effectively gives +1 to the deathless save against MW only and weapons does sth every LRL unit can get by design... using 2 spellcasts on our expensive mages feels a bit too taxing.. there are some nice shenanigans you can pull off with protection of Nagash - no hate on that. 

 

But Arcane Command, Mortal Contract and Drain Vitality just feel so lacking. 

I think regarding our weaknesses in general „low range threat / no shenanigans, very straightforward gameplay“ our spell lore is a big reason for that. 

 

In general I still rate the battletome as pretty well designed but there are definately many things that could be improved in the future. 

One last note: 

Morghasts. 

I dont know what, but they need some sort of help.. They also feel very lacking. 

 

-Archers: I don't really want them. Crawlers already fulfill this role very well, and adding more shooting to the game isn't something I personally want in light of the current KO/DoT/LRL/Seraphon meta. 

-Shadow Skeletons: Not sure this is really on brand for the army. Teleports would be neat, but not every army needs that specific trick. OBR definitely needs SOME sort of tricks, as right now any skilled opponent can look at any OBR list and know exactly what the game plan is, but I'm not sure deepstrikes are it. 

-Chariots: Would be great, but Big K is pretty anti-chariot in the lore, which is unfortunate.

- Acolytes/Missiles: Like I said above, increasing shooting saturation is not something I want, and death's wizard units have always been stand-alone hero's, so not really on brand. 

I would want more bone constructs similar to the necro-sphinx, who's job is simply to kill. A liege foot hero that is actually killy, more infantry options for battleline, such as a unit of 5 2/3wound bruiser skeletons. Morghasts need a warscroll overhaul to be even remotely worth it. 

Spells I actually think are mostly good, drain vitality is a fairly decent spell against hordes, and arcane command is good for lower point games. Only Mortal contract is pretty meh, and empower shields got hit with the death nerf to after saves.  More offensive spells, which would give us access to mortal wounds would also be good. 

[Hungey26]

1 hour ago, Btimmy said:

-Archers: I don't really want them. Crawlers already fulfill this role very well, and adding more shooting to the game isn't something I personally want in light of the current KO/DoT/LRL/Seraphon meta. 

-Shadow Skeletons: Not sure this is really on brand for the army. Teleports would be neat, but not every army needs that specific trick. OBR definitely needs SOME sort of tricks, as right now any skilled opponent can look at any OBR list and know exactly what the game plan is, but I'm not sure deepstrikes are it. 

-Chariots: Would be great, but Big K is pretty anti-chariot in the lore, which is unfortunate.

- Acolytes/Missiles: Like I said above, increasing shooting saturation is not something I want, and death's wizard units have always been stand-alone hero's, so not really on brand. 

I would want more bone constructs similar to the necro-sphinx, who's job is simply to kill. A liege foot hero that is actually killy, more infantry options for battleline, such as a unit of 5 2/3wound bruiser skeletons. Morghasts need a warscroll overhaul to be even remotely worth it. 

Spells I actually think are mostly good, drain vitality is a fairly decent spell against hordes, and arcane command is good for lower point games. Only Mortal contract is pretty meh, and empower shields got hit with the death nerf to after saves.  More offensive spells, which would give us access to mortal wounds would also be good. 

I feel Like the ranged problem is an AOS problem in general. Its power needs to be reigned in but I don't think it should exclude us form having them. Old fantasy negatives to hit need to be reintroduce, no more shooting in melee etc would help a lot to tone down their power as well as some rebalance to key offenders. I feel like Katakros would not be stubborn enough to not see the usefulness of chariots and feel that he (although not ride in one etc) could have them in his army. Especially if nagash was kind of telling him to do so.  Otherwise I agree with your points. I actually feel like reinforce battle shields should just be a 5+ negation agains regular AND mortal wounds but that could make it a bit too strong on a big mortek blob.  I do feel we could use other battle lines. I want our bigger constructs to be able to be conditional battle line but 2 wound beefy infantry would also be very accepted. 

I feel one or two infantry, chariots and one or two bigger/medium constructs would round us out quite well. Say archer, halberd/greatsword unit, chariot, big necro sphinx/warsphinx esque construct and 2 wound greataxe style unit (though the 2 wound could easily tread on our 4 wound models' identity).

Also GW make morghasts better please. Give them warscroll RDP ability and just buff them in general. By the size of them I could see them at 8 wounds easily.

[Heijoshin]

3 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

I still cant get over that the battalion in broken realms is made of the exact same models as a Kavalos lance battalion.

The Liege must have both the terrible stalliarch lords artifact (worst artifact in the entire game possibly) and trait. He is named but gains nothing else, so unique rules despite all these limitations.

The only effect is to regain 1 RDP on a 4+ when doing the stalliarch command...

Why ever take that, the Kavalos lance is more flexible, has the same units and it gives 1 free use of the deathrider wedge once per turn and also gives retreat and charge for free within 12" of the Liege. For any subfaction too. Even without the last part, I think I'd rather just have 1 free wedge ability for sure, than the 50/50 chance when doing a retreat move.

The FeC battalion is also equally terrible. I guess the write really likes their aelves and hates death...

Right with you mate. It's such a disappointing batallion that its not even worth the paper its printed on. 

Let's do some math: 
 

•  Regular Deathrider lance in Stalliarch Lords
  • Liege probably the general to make use of the trait (as it doesnt really fit anyone else)
  • The ****** artefact doesnt have to be used at all (per the wording)
  • Gives 1RPD per the batallion
  • 1 free use of the wedge ability (So 1 RDP free basically)
  • Don't need to spend RDP to retreat and charge
  • "slight" restriction because you need to be near the liege. No biggie though
  • All in all +1 / 2 RDP per round depending on if you are going to be using the free death rider wedge each turn. 

 

• New Lance battallion: 
  • Still gets the command trait if the general
  • Has to be the first liege to get an artefact (seems you can still not give him any artefact - which defeats the purpose of him being named then.....)
  • 1 RDP per round per the batallion
  • No free use of the wedge ability
  • Need to spend 3 RDP for all three to retreat and charge
    • Let's be generous and say you get 2 RDP back from the 4+
      • So -1 RDP in total so far
  • No restriction on the use of the ability: All three units can use it anywhere
  • all in you are at -2 - +1 RDP per round, if all three units use the rally back ability and depending on how well you roll those 4s

They could have at least added some unique ability or artefact for this guy. Even having 2D3 for the Artefact ability or something. Just something else. 

 

 

Edited March 27, 2021 by Heijoshin

[SilverJelly]

With the new meta inbound and Crawlers a little unreliable, what do you guys think of this list?

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Stalliarch Lords

Leaders
Liege-Kavalos (200)
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)

Battleline
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
30 x Mortek Guard (390)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
30 x Mortek Guard (390)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield

Battalions
Mortek Shield-corps (120)
Kavalos Lance (120)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 122
 

The thought is trying to get first turn and Kavalos tying up units in combat turn 1 and then running the rest of the guard to claim objectives and weathering the storm playing the attrition game from that point forwards. This would force you opponent to have to make it through chaff and then you main blocks of guard. 

[Evil Bob]

8 hours ago, SilverJelly said:

With the new meta inbound and Crawlers a little unreliable, what do you guys think of this list?

If you get on the objectives first their will be a nice early VP lead that could be maintained.  Just be tricky with the Deathriders.  They have good coverage that can be manipulated into keeping/blocking objective access.

Edited March 28, 2021 by Evil Bob

[Evil Bob]

13 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

I still cant get over that the battalion in broken realms is made of the exact same models as a Kavalos lance battalion.

Deathriders aren’t selling.  It’s not like they want to put in their precious Morteks at a discount.  Just be grateful it isn’t Morghasts, a Harvester, and a Reaper.

I actually like Deathriders.   Although their ability is pretty weak compared to the shield wall option.  I will probably pick up the set. 

[Btimmy]

7 hours ago, SilverJelly said:

With the new meta inbound and Crawlers a little unreliable, what do you guys think of this list?

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Stalliarch Lords

Leaders
Liege-Kavalos (200)
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)

Battleline
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
30 x Mortek Guard (390)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
30 x Mortek Guard (390)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield

Battalions
Mortek Shield-corps (120)
Kavalos Lance (120)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 122
 

The thought is trying to get first turn and Kavalos tying up units in combat turn 1 and then running the rest of the guard to claim objectives and weathering the storm playing the attrition game from that point forwards. This would force you opponent to have to make it through chaff and then you main blocks of guard. 

Crawlers are in fact extremely reliable, even if they don't instantly kill the support heros, they force your opponent to be worried and deploy differently. I think this list doesn't have the damage nor the durability to play at the top tables. Your heros are going to die extremely early, and by taking the first turn you open yourself to getting doubled, which is disastrous in this shooting meta. 

[SilverJelly]

Or could double down on Crawlers with 4 and 3x 20 Mortek Guard. 

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers

Leaders
Liege-Kavalos (200)
Mortisan Soulmason (140)

Battleline
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield

Artillery
Mortek Crawler (200)
Mortek Crawler (200)
Mortek Crawler (200)
Mortek Crawler (200)

Total: 1920 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121

[Btimmy]

42 minutes ago, SilverJelly said:

Or could double down on Crawlers with 4 and 3x 20 Mortek Guard. 

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers

Leaders
Liege-Kavalos (200)
Mortisan Soulmason (140)

Battleline
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield

Artillery
Mortek Crawler (200)
Mortek Crawler (200)
Mortek Crawler (200)
Mortek Crawler (200)

Total: 1920 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121

This lists is better but 4 is almost certainly overkill. You need more heros to generate rdp and draw fire, even if they are only bait. 

[Evil Bob]

2 hours ago, SilverJelly said:

Artillery
Mortek Crawler (200)
Mortek Crawler (200)
Mortek Crawler (200)
Mortek Crawler (200)

Even if every battle is lost everyone you fight is going to hate you.  It all depends how honest they want to be.

[Kimbo]

Hi! I'm trying to build my first OBR list with competitive intent. Would love some feedback in this one: 

 

Mortis pretorians 

Katakros 

Liege 

2x20 Mortek guard 

2x5 (or 10) deathriders

2x crawlers  

1980p 

 

I've thought about using Zantos instead of Liege but then I can not use the -3 rend artefact on a hero. I'm torn. 

I can se value in both using the desthriders as 2x5 and 10. Would love some input regarding that if you prefer it one was from experience. 

 

Thank you in advance! 

 

 

[SilverJelly]

29 minutes ago, Kimbo said:

Hi! I'm trying to build my first OBR list with competitive intent. Would love some feedback in this one: 

 

Mortis pretorians 

Katakros 

Liege 

2x20 Mortek guard 

2x5 (or 10) deathriders

2x crawlers  

1980p 

 

I've thought about using Zantos instead of Liege but then I can not use the -3 rend artefact on a hero. I'm torn. 

I can se value in both using the desthriders as 2x5 and 10. Would love some input regarding that if you prefer it one was from experience. 

 

Thank you in advance! 

 

 

I would run Zandto for his reroll wound command ability depending on the Grand Alliance. I have found it to be very beneficial in past games.

For the deathriders, if you are using them to capture objectives run them as 2. This will allow you another RD roll. Of you want them in combat and need staying power, run them as ten. 

[Kimbo]

1 hour ago, SilverJelly said:

I would run Zandto for his reroll wound command ability depending on the Grand Alliance. I have found it to be very beneficial in past games.

For the deathriders, if you are using them to capture objectives run them as 2. This will allow you another RD roll. Of you want them in combat and need staying power, run them as ten. 

Okey, thanks. Would you rate this  list as competitive?  Im new to this faction

Edited March 30, 2021 by Kimbo