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AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion


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17 hours ago, Shawry said:

Heya everyone,

Does anyone have an ok list for 1k? I'm looking at building up to a 2k list and can't decide what way I should go. Either lots of guard or riders,

Does anyone have any input?

 

Cheers

This is my go to 1,000 point starter list for new OBR players to aim for:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Mortis Praetorians
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Liege-Kavalos (200)
- General
- Command Trait: Katakros' Chosen
- Artefact: Artificer's Blade
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
- Lore of Mortisans: Empower Nadirite Weapons
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
Mortek Crawler (200)
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)

Bone-tithe Nexus (0)

Total: 1000 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 59

It's written up as praetoreans, but it works fine for any Legion, just switch out the Liege's artefact and command ability as appropriate.  If you switch to another legion you also might want to trade the boneshaper's spell for arcane command, though honestly I wouldn't expect to get spells off reliably enough for the choice to matter all that much one way or another..

It gives you all the OBR fundamentals - a liege, a crawler, some of both battleline to play around with, plus a boneshaper so you can try out OBR magic and one of the endless spells.  The shaper also provides some healing for your morteks so it'll be at least somewhat useful even if you run up against opponents with stronger magic that can shut down your casting.

It isn't the strongest 1k list possible - more morteks would generally be the way to go, but this list should be at least reasonably effective, and it lets you try out more of the faction fundamentals to give you an idea of what you'd want to expand into as you grow towards larger game sizes.

Edited by Sception
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Someone on FB already made a SW meme

So, the newest Death faction has been revealed at Nova, and despite a lukewarm reaction from some, I really like the look of these. 

I started with converting my cavalry: meet Arch-Kavalos Zandtauros

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BATREP TIME! - Battleplan SHIFTING OBJECTIVES

MY LIST

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Mortis Praetorians
Katakros, Mortarch of the Necropolis (500)
- General
Arch-Kavalos Zandtos (220)
Mortisan Soulmason (140)
- Artefact: Artificer's Blade
- Lore of Mortisans: Empower Nadirite Weapons
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
Mortek Crawler (200)
Mortek Crawler (200)
Nightmare Predator (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112
 

HIS LIST

Allegiance: Khorne
- Slaughterhost: Baleful Lords (Host of Chaos)
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (270)
- General
- Command Trait: Thirst for Carnage
- Artefact: A'rgath the King of Blades
Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage (270)
- Artefact: Black Brass Crown
Bloodthirster of Unfettered Fury (270)
Wrath of Khorne Bloodthirster (300)
Skarbrand (380)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
5 x Flesh Hounds (100)
Tyrants of Blood (140)
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 100
 

Turn 1

He decided to go first. Moved all his fleshhounds onto the objectives and moved all 5 blood thirsters up. I deployed in such a way that he had to roll 10's ( he had a reroll and +1 so needed 9's) to get his charges off. Luckily he failed all of them. I took my turn.. buffed the ****** out of my catapults.. and the poor ****** didnt roll a single save. Shot off both Skarbrand and a Rage thirster in my first turn. Charged the left objective with 20 mortek and the right objective with 5 horses. My centre unit of mortek charged into the blood thirsters sitting on the middle objective and took the other rage thirster down to 2 wounrs and the fury thirster to 4 wounds. I took all the objectives and in this turn had killed Skarbrand, rage thirster, 2x units of fleshhounds.

TURN 1 SCORES - OBR 7 - KHORNE 7

Turn 2

Rolled priority and he won. he had 4 blood tithes and decided to try get the unit of mortek in the middle by fighting in the hero phase with blood tithe. He whiffed and killed none of them. He attempted to finish them off in the combat phase but whiffed again with both the fury thirster and the rage thirster. His wrath thirster had charged Zandtos, but only took him down to 3 wounds. The flesh hounds also charged him but did no damage. My centre mortek killed the rage and fury thirster, and zandtos killed the unit of flesh hounds. At this point my opponent had a single wrath of khorne blood thirster left. On my turncatapult shot him off and he was tabled.

OBR VICTORY - Final score OBR 35 - Khorne - 7

Full credit to my opponent. His dice rolling was absolute garbage when it came to the catapults. He had every reason to be salty. I don't think he rolled a single save. but he just took it on the chin like a champ and was just happy to roll some dice.

we talked about the game afterwards and had he made a single charge with a rage thirster in the begining of the game it would have been completely different. We rolled damage for a "what if" and he would have done 8 mortals to every one of my units and wiped the centre unit of Mortek.

 

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6 hours ago, Sharklone said:

BATREP TIME! - Battleplan SHIFTING OBJECTIVES

Turn 1

He decided to go first. Moved all his fleshhounds onto the objectives and moved all 5 blood thirsters up. I deployed in such a way that he had to roll 10's ( he had a reroll and +1 so needed 9's) to get his charges off. Luckily he failed all of them. I took my turn.. buffed the ****** out of my catapults.. and the poor ****** didnt roll a single save. Shot off both Skarbrand and a Rage thirster in my first turn.

Yeesh, I've heard of bad luck, but that's something else.  That your opponent was able to laugh it off and keep playing without getting bitter really says something about their character.  😛

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Trying to rekindle my fun with Bonereapers is proving really hard due to the points costs and the mandatory huge battleline requirements and minimum hero amount to have any RDP to work with. This leave so little wiggleroom to do anything interesting.

I am looking at Immortis guard, which I find super cool, but they are really hard to justify, especially if trying to make some Aegis immortal lists for example:

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Petrifex Elite
Liege-Kavalos (200)
- General
- Command Trait: Mighty Archaeossian
- Artefact: Helm of the Ordained
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
- Artefact: Godbone Armour
- Lore of Mortisans: Drain Vitality
Mortisan Soulmason (140)
- Lore of Mortisans: Arcane Command
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
6 x Immortis Guard (360)
3 x Immortis Guard (180)
2 x Morghast Archai (190)
- Spirit Halberds
Aegis Immortal (80)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 121
 

I guess it would be playable in a casual game and be quite effective against melee armies, however the Aegis requiring 2 immortis guard and 1 morghast seems too much. not much for them to protect anyway! I like the idea of the 6 immortis guard, perhaps they could be good in a different list, with +1 attack command, they can dish out hurt and take it... maybe a Katakros list with a unit of 6 to get them +1 save and hit.

The problem is the battleline requirements again, where Mortek guard is usually the answer and they do the same job as immortis guard, being a tanky anvil but with a decent punch.

Any ideas for decent lists showing some love to the less used elites? The Harvesters and Crawlers always get the spotlight, but what about Stalkers, Immortis and Morghasts?

 

 

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A unit of immortis, while not optimal, isn't too hard to fit into a list if you really want them.  The formation though isn't going to fit.  And I'm not that bent out of shape about it.  Not every battalion is meant for competitive 2k point games.  Heck, some of them literally cannot be fielded in 2k points games at all.  If you want to field a battalion in such an elite army, you're going to have to select the ones that include battle line and hero units you already need to take.  We actually have several of those - the shield corpse, the kavalos lance, the ballistari, heck even the trident is playable.

The aegis immortal is like 800 points of bodyguard.  The only thing in the army hat is going to justify 800 points of bodyguard is Nagash, and if you're taking Nagash plus 800 points of bodyguard before you even look at the rest of the army, you're not looking at a standard bring & battle 2k points game, you're looking at a special event big game of like 4k points or more.  And it's perfectly ok for some gameplay elements, particularly when it comes to battalions - literally units of units - to be aimed at that sort of apocalypse scale game play.

So yeah, just let go of the 2k aegis immortal vision.  But that doesn't mean you can't fit in a unit you like, even if it's suboptimal.  the 2,000 point list I'm currently tinkering around with includes a unit of immortis guard:

Spoiler
Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Null Myriad
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
Liege-Kavalos (200)
- General
- Command Trait: Unsettling and Sinister
- Artefact: Baleful Blade
Mortisan Boneshaper (130)
- Lore of Mortisans: Arcane Command
5 x Kavalos Deathriders (180)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
40 x Mortek Guard (440)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
3 x Immortis Guard (180)
Mortek Crawler (200)
Bone-tithe Shrieker (30)

Soulstealer Carrion (20)
Bone-tithe Nexus (0)

Total: 2000 / 2000

Not the most optimized list, but it has the units it needs to function (a liege, some kavalos, 60 morteks, a crawler), and still makes room for the units I like (Arkhan, Immortis Guard).  And not just incidental inclusion either, the Immortis have a distinct job - keep arkhan alive until he gets the chance to cast protection of nagash, and if they're still alive after that they can soak wounds for my other heroes to protect the RDP supply, such as it is.  It's not a set in stone list - I waffle on shrieker & carrion vs. purple sun, or trading both of them and the boneshaper out for a soulmason and nightmare predator, and I waffle back and forth between the crawler and a harvester.  But the Immortis spot is pretty set in stone, not because they're great, but because I love arkhan and have a hard time imagining running him in a list without them.

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  • 2 weeks later...

This guy is still a work in progress but It still feels a little off. I planning on taking the bone highlight up to Screaming Skull. I think I'm going to highlight the bronze to silver. The eye will have a glow effect and the cloth with be black with highlights to Nihilakh Oxide. Do you guys have any tips to make this look better?

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20210308_145109.jpg

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7 hours ago, SilverJelly said:

This guy is still a work in progress but It still feels a little off. I planning on taking the bone highlight up to Screaming Skull. I think I'm going to highlight the bronze to silver. The eye will have a glow effect and the cloth with be black with highlights to Nihilakh Oxide. Do you guys have any tips to make this look better?

20210308_154708.jpg

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I think it looks great man! 

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I currently think about my new army project and came to the conclusion to go for OBR.  My regular main opponents are DoK. How good do you think OBR will do against the DoK and their new battletome?

 

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7 hours ago, Ashes said:

I currently think about my new army project and came to the conclusion to go for OBR.  My regular main opponents are DoK. How good do you think OBR will do against the DoK and their new battletome?

 

OBR has a heavy slant toward resilience and winning through attrition, with powerful synergy bonuses on top of high raw stats in exchange for low movement, niche magic, and a devastating weakness to the double turn. 

Unfortunately, the army has a few major flaws in terms of player enjoyment; as an elite force capable of regeneration, the army pays for it in points per wound. Mortek Guard are still one of, if not the best battleline in the game, but every other option is brutally expensive. Coupled with the fact that all 3 build paths seem to eat up 900 points with no battleline accounted for, and, well...lists are going to look very samey. 

Kavalos Deathriders are rarely enough to pose a threat to the opponent's elite forces by themselves, but are our "cheap skirmisher." Their true stength lies in our high base stats making them famtastic at throwing down with the enemy's own skirmishers. 

Katakros is the most popular of the leaders; he makes the entire army more forgiving to play, is powerful, and offers some genuine flexibility in unit choices while allowing a flood of RDP. 

Arkhan is 2nd most popular, but in most metas with powerful indirect fire, you will need to bring along a taxing unit of Immortis Guard to ensure he isn't shot off the table round 1. Our biggest weakness is mortal wound spam, which Arkhan can circumvent. Definitely usable, but I am not familiar with exact builds.

Nagash used to see some use but since losing the +2 in Petrifex Elite he has fallen out of favor. 

The tried and true "core" to the most standard build would be:

 

Mortis Praetorians

Katakros - 500

Liege Kavalos - 200

Mortek Guard x 20 - 260

Mortek Guard x 20 - 260

Kavalos Deathrider x 5 - 180

Crawler - 200

1500/2000

 

You won't earn new friends anytime soon with this list, but it offers a nice spread of everything the army is capable of and conveniently slots down to 1000 points by removing Katakros. Taking it to 2000 points is up to you, but I would almost assuredly take a 2nd Crawler and at that point a Mortisan Soulshaper to help limit the RNG of Crawlers is also appealing.

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54 minutes ago, Nasrod said:

OBR has a heavy slant toward resilience and winning through attrition, with powerful synergy bonuses on top of high raw stats in exchange for low movement, niche magic, and a devastating weakness to the double turn. 

Unfortunately, the army has a few major flaws in terms of player enjoyment; as an elite force capable of regeneration, the army pays for it in points per wound. Mortek Guard are still one of, if not the best battleline in the game, but every other option is brutally expensive. Coupled with the fact that all 3 build paths seem to eat up 900 points with no battleline accounted for, and, well...lists are going to look very samey. 

Kavalos Deathriders are rarely enough to pose a threat to the opponent's elite forces by themselves, but are our "cheap skirmisher." Their true stength lies in our high base stats making them famtastic at throwing down with the enemy's own skirmishers. 

Katakros is the most popular of the leaders; he makes the entire army more forgiving to play, is powerful, and offers some genuine flexibility in unit choices while allowing a flood of RDP. 

Arkhan is 2nd most popular, but in most metas with powerful indirect fire, you will need to bring along a taxing unit of Immortis Guard to ensure he isn't shot off the table round 1. Our biggest weakness is mortal wound spam, which Arkhan can circumvent. Definitely usable, but I am not familiar with exact builds.

Nagash used to see some use but since losing the +2 in Petrifex Elite he has fallen out of favor. 

The tried and true "core" to the most standard build would be:

 

Mortis Praetorians

Katakros - 500

Liege Kavalos - 200

Mortek Guard x 20 - 260

Mortek Guard x 20 - 260

Kavalos Deathrider x 5 - 180

Crawler - 200

1500/2000

 

You won't earn new friends anytime soon with this list, but it offers a nice spread of everything the army is capable of and conveniently slots down to 1000 points by removing Katakros. Taking it to 2000 points is up to you, but I would almost assuredly take a 2nd Crawler and at that point a Mortisan Soulshaper to help limit the RNG of Crawlers is also appealing.

This list looks good, but I would probably ditch the Kavalos as Big K already gives you a ton of RDP and the extra liege is  unnecessary. You would likely be better off with a harvester or a caster in the base list. 

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Eh.  The 2 extra rdp and extra range on the +1 attack CA are pretty worthwhile, imo.  And on top of that, the Liege himself is a competant combatant with an actual movement speed, almost equal to a deathrider unit in himself.  Even if you're running Katakros, I'd still consider the liege to be a staple unit.  The harvester...  I love the model and the concept, but with as much shooting as is going around these days, I'm just not convinced that the harvester will do more for you than 10 more morteks for 70 less points.

Edited by Sception
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4 hours ago, Sception said:

Eh.  The 2 extra rdp and extra range on the +1 attack CA are pretty worthwhile, imo.  And on top of that, the Liege himself is a competant combatant with an actual movement speed, almost equal to a deathrider unit in himself.  Even if you're running Katakros, I'd still consider the liege to be a staple unit.  The harvester...  I love the model and the concept, but with as much shooting as is going around these days, I'm just not convinced that the harvester will do more for you than 10 more morteks for 70 less points.

Not sure what you mean by the extra range, both have wholly w/in 12. Unless you just mean having another use case of it. Also even in 2k you are hard pressed to use more than 5 RDP a round, and having extra is just a waste. The harvester was suggested as it is exactly the 200 points that the liege kav fills, and provided some variety. The better choice would probably just be another crawler, but some people probably wouldn't find that as interesting.  Alternatively, a chicken legs would also simply be better to be at 6 RDP and provide double casting/dispelling and buffs. 

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On 3/8/2021 at 8:12 PM, SilverJelly said:

This guy is still a work in progress but It still feels a little off. I planning on taking the bone highlight up to Screaming Skull. I think I'm going to highlight the bronze to silver. The eye will have a glow effect and the cloth with be black with highlights to Nihilakh Oxide. Do you guys have any tips to make this look better?

 

 

 

Darken parts of the rib cages with brown bone.

Gorthor brown, agrax and then drybrush ushabti.

Gives a nice contrast to the construct made of different bones

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55 minutes ago, SilverJelly said:

It most definitely is. I just hope it's a unit release and not just the Warband that has been rumored. 

I don't. Another army gaining access to unnecessary shooting is not the direction that I want AoS or OBR to be going. We already have mandatory crawlers. 

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I do. The issue isn’t shooting, the issue is the rules for shooting. Ossiarch most def should have ranked archers, and the game as a whole should embrace and include archery. AoS 3.0 just needs to redress the inherent imbalances within the current rules and adjust some OP warscrolls. Also, it being a war band with an archer is very likely indicator of what will follow.

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Models, theme and lore IMHO should lead the design choices. Not, rules. Not having archers because the rules for shooting are bad would be a bad case of the latter. It’s a fantasy game of warring armies, of course their should be archers and lots more of them.

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The more shooting centric the game becomes, the closer it gets to 40k and a general unfun experience. Adding shooting to every army because its "realistic" in a war game is going to make the game worse. 

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I finally got around to testing out OBR and you guys are right. The best thing about this army is its resilience. The list I used had 15 Deathriders and 2 Crawlers. I didnt have the support the Deathriders needed with them and whiffed with all my shots with the Crawler. Besides my bad luck on dice rolls, the Crawlers were still limited because they need line of sight. The only reason I was able to pull out the win was because I was able to get on the objectives and weather the storm. 

I think I'm going to change my list to the one below to play on the fact this army is incredibly resilient. What are your thoughts? 

Allegiance: Ossiarch Bonereapers
- Legion: Mortis Praetorians

Leaders
Katakros, Mortarch of the Necropolis (500)
Arkhan the Black, Mortarch of Sacrament (360)
Arch-Kavalos Zandtos (220)

Battleline
15 x Kavalos Deathriders (480)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
20 x Mortek Guard (260)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield
10 x Mortek Guard (130)
- Nadirite Blade and Shield

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Emerald Lifeswarm (50)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 113
 

The only change I might make would be dropping Lifeswarm and 5 Deathriders and making the 10 Guard a unit of 20. 

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Think my argument stands. The separation between 40k and AoS shouldn’t be one army has shooting and the other doesn’t. No, not all armies should have shooting. But should Ossiarch, quite possibly yes. Is the existing rule set for shooting in AoS fit for purpose? No. TLOS means almost nothing, terrain is largely redundant, you can freely shoot into combat without any penalty and look out sir rule isn’t nearly affective enough at keeping characters alive.  

Changes which would help. 

Shooting over or through your own unit is a flat -1 to hit.

Characters cannot be targeted for shooting unless over 10 wounds.

On foot and horseback characters with less than X wounds can be attached to units. They can still be picked out in combat or with shots but they would use the old fantasy look out sir rule.

You cannot shoot into combat.

Long range penalties, i.e. over half range of weapon is -1.

There is a serious danger of this game become a total bore fest of massively over pointed hard to balance models supported by min max units. Bring back armies, and to me that might just include archery or something equiv.

Edited by warhammernerd
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I feel like your argument rests upon warhammer fantasy (bring back armies) and theoretical change grounds, neither of which I can address. In the current state of the game giving even more armies access to shooting is in my opinion only going to worsen the game.

 

Almost all of the most competitive armies currently use shooting to dominate, and it creates an extremely unfun play experience. Perhaps this could be changed by sweeping rules changes, but without access to what those changes would be, I am categorically against randomly against adding shooting to armies. Especially in the case of OBR because we already have a mandatory shooting tax to even be remotely competitive in the form of crawlers.

 

At best, a new shooting unit replaces the mandatory crawler tax, but I would much prefer more varied melee units to this heavy infantry army, in a way that enables builds that do not require shooting to function. 

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More melee units would be redundant, likely resulting in obviously better & worse versions of the same units, a problem that plagues Nighthaunts, for instance.  A shooting unit would be something new, something that might allow for more meaningful play variety.

At least part of OBR's concept is that they're re-imagined Tomb Kings.  TK had a catapult and ranged units, and while TK ranged builds were at times viable, they didn't dominate the game overall, even at times when shooting in general was overpowered.  Nor did they obsolete or crowd out melee TK builds.

So yeah, I welcome OBR archers, if that is indeed what we're seeing.  And while we're updating more classic TK concepts, maybe bring back war sphinxes & chariots, with options to make them battle line?

I like OBR as a first pass at the faction.  Better imo than many new AoS dactions' initial outings.  But they're definitely lacking in build and play variety, and some more distinct battle line options, including archers, would help a ton in that regard,

A skele-ton, even.

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