AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Scurvydog]

14 hours ago, 5kaven5lave said:

Morning all, 

I know this has probably been asked a million times already but if someone could humour me I’d be really grateful: Harvesters - can they only replace MODELS slain with 3” of them? So they need to be sat in pretty much the exact place where you’re removing Mortek Guard models from a unit, for example? Does that hamper their utility as much as I think it does?

Yes that is how they work and it does give some limitations on how to move them around and requires you to wrap them a bit if they are supposed to support mortek. This is also sad for their offense, if they kill models from a unit then your opponent can just remove from the rear

[Shuratt]

Question for fellow ossiarchs:

Kavalos Deathriders trigger their nadrite weapons on a 5+ ti hit instead of a natural 6. Their 5+ roll must be unmodified?

I have this doubt because otherwise It should be stated

[Sutek]

It means on a natural roll of 5 or 6.  The reason they've written 5+ is because if they'd just written 5 it would mean only 5 and not 6 which would be odd.

I always go with swords on my Deathriders anyway.

[Shuratt]

4 hours ago, Sutek said:

It means on a natural roll of 5 or 6.  The reason they've written 5+ is because if they'd just written 5 it would mean only 5 and not 6 which would be odd.

I always go with swords on my Deathriders anyway.

Normally i would agree with you, but nonetheless that word choice sounds dubious to me.

"..2 hits are scored on an unmodified 5+ instead of 6.." would have been perfectly fine if that was the case

Maybe there is some FaQ that clarify this?

Edited December 13, 2020 by Shuratt

[Sutek]

So you think that if they are affected by an -1 to hit debuff it'll only trigger on a 6?  Another reason to always use swords.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

I would assume they were intending the reader to carry forward the descriptor "unmodified" for the remainder of the rule.

[Shuratt]

2 hours ago, Sutek said:

So you think that if they are affected by an -1 to hit debuff it'll only trigger on a 6?  Another reason to always use swords.

Exactly. Same for +1 to hit bonuses to reduce the exploding hits to 4+ and so on

This way spears have a reason to exist

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Shuratt

[Nullius]

I want to run Nagash and an Aegis Immortal and I’m thinking about doing it like this
 

Allegiance: Death
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Nagash, Supreme Lord of the Undead (880)
- General

Battleline
10 x Zombies (60)
10 x Zombies (60)
10 x Zombies (60)
10 x Zombies (60)
10 x Zombies (60)

Units
3 x Immortis Guard (180)
3 x Immortis Guard (180)
4 x Morghast Archai (380)
- Spirit Halberds

Battalions
Aegis Immortal (80)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 114

the layers of zombies advance in depth, leaving no gaps for flying chargers and pinning fast movers in place by forcing them to get through multiple

units. Nagash goes dead center and wails on unis with Arcane Bolt and CC attacks, plus a bit of healing every hero phase. The aegis advances with him tanking wounds. The formation breaks apart and goes hunting individual units in the mid game.

 

trying to fit nagash in OBR made me realize he doesn’t really benefit from the OBR allegience abilities and neither do Immortis guard nor Morghasts so A friend pointed out that Grand Alliance Death made more sense.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Nullius

[Tikhunt]

If the 5+ was modifiable I’d expect it to say “on a 5+ instead of an unmodified 6” 

[Sutek]

12 hours ago, Shuratt said:

Exactly. Same for +1 to hit bonuses to reduce the exploding hits to 4+ and so on

This way spears have a reason to exist

 

The problem is that even if that was the case there are many more ways to get -1 to hit than +1.  Katakros and the Bone-Tithe shrieker are the only things I can think of for OBR.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

5 hours ago, Sutek said:

The problem is that even if that was the case there are many more ways to get -1 to hit than +1.  Katakros and the Bone-Tithe shrieker are the only things I can think of for OBR.

Also the Helm of the Ordained artefact. But as I stated previously, I don't think this is the language's intent.

8 hours ago, Tikhunt said:

If the 5+ was modifiable I’d expect it to say “on a 5+ instead of an unmodified 6” 

A very good point.

[Obeisance]

Yeah, nevermind

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Obeisance

[Nullius]

How much luck have you all had with running a max-sized brick of Mortek Guard with Spears? I built it because it looks impressive and thematic, but I was wondering if anyone had any experience running it and could offer any advice.

[Empir3]

Hey wanted to get your guys opinion on this list I been trying to put together : 

++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Death - Ossiarch Bonereapers) [2,000pts] ++

+ Leader +

Arch-Kavalos Zandtos [220pts]

Katakros, Mortarch of the Necropolis [500pts]: General

Mortisan Soulreaper [120pts]: Artificer's Blade

+ Behemoth +

Gothizzar Harvester [200pts]: Soulcrusher Bludgeons

+ Battleline +

Kavalos Deathriders [180pts]: 5 Kavalos Deathriders, Nadirite Blade and Shield

Kavalos Deathriders [180pts]: 5 Kavalos Deathriders, Nadirite Blade and Shield

Mortek Guard [130pts]: 10 Mortek Guard, Nadirite Blade and Shield

Mortek Guard [130pts]: 10 Mortek Guard, Nadirite Blade and Shield

Mortek Guard [130pts]: 10 Mortek Guard, Nadirite Blade and Shield

+ Other +

Immortis Guard [180pts]: 3 Immortis Guard

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance: The Ossiarch Empire: Legion: Mortis Praetorians

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

+ Malign Sorcery +

Endless Spell: Bone-tithe Shrieker [30pts]

+ Scenery +

Bone-Tithe Nexus

++ Total: [2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

[umpac]

On 12/21/2020 at 4:45 AM, Nullius said:

How much luck have you all had with running a max-sized brick of Mortek Guard with Spears? I built it because it looks impressive and thematic, but I was wondering if anyone had any experience running it and could offer any advice.

I didn't model any of my morteks with spears so I haven't tried them but its pretty easy to math out. Basically spears will outperform blades slightly vs 4+ save, assuming you get the same amount of models into combat with spears just getting 1 extra rank (i.e. 20 swords vs 30 spears or 24 vs 36) until you can get 30 swords into combat at which point they start to outperform the spears. The swords quickly get better as you take casualties.

[Nullius]

11 hours ago, umpac said:

I didn't model any of my morteks with spears so I haven't tried them but its pretty easy to math out. Basically spears will outperform blades slightly vs 4+ save, assuming you get the same amount of models into combat with spears just getting 1 extra rank (i.e. 20 swords vs 30 spears or 24 vs 36) until you can get 30 swords into combat at which point they start to outperform the spears. The swords quickly get better as you take casualties.

Seems like a good analysis when it comes to two ten-wide units hitting each other head on. I suppose the other consideration is the attack buffing command ability and the fact that when it comes to a large round base (like a monster, that third ‘rank’ will have more more models attacking than than the first rank, (although in regressing down to a simple third rank the larger the radius of the unit surrounded is) so the Spears have a bit more efficiency of buffing (with that third rank adding an additional 30 attacks after the command ability), and a greater efficiency against large base units and elite non-horde units that can be easily surrounded in a semi-circular fashion. Perhaps not worth the loss of rend -1. 
 

have you ever ran 40 man blocks? Seems tough to keep them all within six of the hekatos without movement trays.

[TheGrayKing]

Traded some of my 40k stuff for the Bonereapers half of Feast of Bones and would like some help in choosing between the 2 lists attached. Any help or guidance would be appreciated. I'm not trying to build the most competitive top tier version of Bonereapers, just a list that will be fun to play and not lose every single game I play.

OssiarchBonereapersv1.pdf OssiarchBonereapersv2.pdf

[KingShaner]

I would love to hear if this list would work!?

Petrifex..cause duh.

Basically Mason buffs units of Mortek w/ Guide and Empower Nadirate, he gets the 2 wound Petrifex Trait. 

Boneshaper Heals Mortek / replaces models, Generates RDP and gets the via Arcane Command, he gets God Bone in case they target him as my RDP source.

Gothizzar with the Maces for mortal wounds sprinkling - it's goal is to generate any Mortek that die from the tarpit.

1 - 20 (tarpit) and 2 - 10 man Morteks (objectives etc)

Anything I might want to swap? I do like the look of the Liege if Kavalos, maybe swap Gothizzar out for him?

**+ Leader +**

**Mortisan Boneshaper [130pts]:** 1. Arcane Command, Godbone Armour

*Mortisan Soulmason [140pts]:** 2. Empower Nadirite Weapons, General, Mighty Archaeossian

*+ Behemoth +**

*Gothizzar Harvester [200pts]:** Soulcrusher Bludgeons

**+ Battleline +*

**Mortek Guard [130pts]:** 10 Mortek Guard, Nadirite Blade and Shield, Soulcleaver Greatblade

**Mortek Guard [130pts]:** 10 Mortek Guard, Nadirite Blade and Shield, Soulcleaver Greatblade

**Mortek Guard [260pts]:** 2x 10 Mortek Guard, Nadirite Blade and Shield, 2x Soulcleaver Greatblade

**Allegiance: The Ossiarch Empire:** Legion: Petrifex Elite

**++ Total: [990pts] ++**

[KingShaner]

Also perhaps the following is slightly more balanced but forgoes the Hyper Regeneration of the Gothizzar/Boneshaper on the 20 Mortek blob for a Battalion and Extra Artifact on the Mason with some Cavalry as a possible hammer. 

**+ Leader +**

**Mortisan Boneshaper [130pts]:** 1. Arcane Command, Godbone Armour

**+ Battleline +**

**Kavalos Deathriders [180pts]:** 5 Kavalos Deathriders, Nadirite Blade and Shields

 

**+ Battalion +**

**Battalion: Mortek Shied-corps [650pts]**

. **Mortek Guard:** 10 Mortek Guard, Nadirite Blade and Shield

. **Mortek Guard:** 10 Mortek Guard, Nadirite Blade and Shield

**Mortek Guard:** 10 Mortek Guard,  Nadirite Blade and Shield.

 

**Mortisan Soulmason:** 3. Throne of Dzendt, General, Mighty Archaeossian

 

**Allegiance: The Ossiarch Empire:** Legion: Petrifex Elite

**Endless Spell: Nightmare Predator [40pts]

**+ Scenery

**Bone-Tithe Nexus

[umpac]

14 hours ago, Nullius said:

Seems like a good analysis when it comes to two ten-wide units hitting each other head on. I suppose the other consideration is the attack buffing command ability and the fact that when it comes to a large round base (like a monster, that third ‘rank’ will have more more models attacking than than the first rank, (although in regressing down to a simple third rank the larger the radius of the unit surrounded is) so the Spears have a bit more efficiency of buffing (with that third rank adding an additional 30 attacks after the command ability), and a greater efficiency against large base units and elite non-horde units that can be easily surrounded in a semi-circular fashion. Perhaps not worth the loss of rend -1. 
 

have you ever ran 40 man blocks? Seems tough to keep them all within six of the hekatos without movement trays.

Attack or +hit buffs doesn't matter, the math stays the same. They both get the same damage increase from +1 A, +1 to hit or both. In the end the difference is usually pretty minor but there are situations where spears severely underperform. The Mortek guard mirror is a good example, where 24 swords does twice as much damage as 36 spears. Swords also does a fair bit better vs 3+ save with RR1. Spears does better vs low armor stuff but usually just overkill damage, horrors being the one exception. If you already have spears on then you shouldn't notice much difference unless you face a lot of mirror matches or 3+ saves.

Yeah I always take 40+20+10 or 40+10+10 morteks. You need to keep the Hekatos in the middle of the unit (as in not in the front rank) to have them within 6" but a lot of the time its better to just forgo the 6+ ward and CA's to get a better frontage. It's a little awkward sometimes, but I usually have a Boneshaper trailing after that can help them staying inside the buff-bubble if I need to.

[Nullius]

16 hours ago, umpac said:

Attack or +hit buffs doesn't matter, the math stays the same. They both get the same damage increase from +1 A, +1 to hit or both. In the end the difference is usually pretty minor but there are situations where spears severely underperform.

I guess what I’m saying is that more models in engagement that can attack (eg spears), the more efficient the +1 attack ability is. With, say, 20 models in attack range it nets you an additional 20 attacks, with 30 models in range it nets you an additional 30 attacks, for a 50% increase in bonus attacks. 
 

All that said, assuming a 4+ armor save as a rough average (and discounting the hit and wound rolls, which are symmetrical for both weapons anyway), we get 90 attacks out of the spears discounting half of that damage for 45 (again discounting the hit and wound rolls),  or 60 attacks from the swords after +1 attack with Rend -1 for 40 potential damage on average against our 4+ enemy. 
 

granted this is a very artificial set of parameters, and certainly any buff to the 4+ save (even re-rolling 1’s) will swing it back to the swords. Against 5+ or worse, the spears should perform better with 60 versus 50 for the swords etc etc, and a more predictable damage output because of volume of dice (but less of a chance of a stroke of good luck as well).  of course the petrifex ability starts to take the swords into insane territory, but that’s another discussion.

 

what do you use for movement trays for your 40 man block? Do you find the 40 block is competitive or do you just do it for rule

of cool?

[umpac]

 

8 hours ago, Nullius said:

what do you use for movement trays for your 40 man block? Do you find the 40 block is competitive or do you just do it for rule

of cool?

I feel like movement trays are a huge handicap so I never use them. In my opinion a unit of 40 morteks is the most competitive option, I much rather take 40-10-10 than 20-20-20. Looking at tournaments both set ups seems about equally common.

[El Antiguo Guardián]

On 12/21/2020 at 4:45 AM, Nullius said:

How much luck have you all had with running a max-sized brick of Mortek Guard with Spears? I built it because it looks impressive and thematic, but I was wondering if anyone had any experience running it and could offer any advice.

I was using them just with Petrifex, but no more.

[Benji]

2 hours ago, umpac said:

 

I feel like movement trays are a huge handicap so I never use them. In my opinion a unit of 40 morteks is the most competitive option, I much rather take 40-10-10 than 20-20-20. Looking at tournaments both set ups seems about equally common.

Based on my tournament experience 40 is unwieldy. Keeping that many models in 6" of the Hekatos is difficult. In theory it's fine but in practice as soon as you add a terrain piece or you barely make a charge it you lose the ability to shield wall/counterattack with the squad trailing behind, or your guys at the front are moving 2" so the ones at the back stay in range.

I've had success with 30/20/20 and 20/20/20 (and 10/10/10 but that's a whole different can of worms). 

[umpac]

3 hours ago, Benji said:

Based on my tournament experience 40 is unwieldy. Keeping that many models in 6" of the Hekatos is difficult. In theory it's fine but in practice as soon as you add a terrain piece or you barely make a charge it you lose the ability to shield wall/counterattack with the squad trailing behind, or your guys at the front are moving 2" so the ones at the back stay in range.

I've had success with 30/20/20 and 20/20/20 (and 10/10/10 but that's a whole different can of worms). 

Shield wall doesn't have a range requirement. You keep them within 6" early to enable Advance and CS, then break up "formation" if you get a good charge to get proper frontage.