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AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion


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On 9/4/2020 at 7:43 AM, Lionheart said:

Mmmh Petrifex + double catapult dominated the meta till the nerf in truth. And personally i'm in favour of evrything that makes games and strategies more deep, and another terrain feature gives alot of deeps, since you are forced to build a list thinking about that aswell, and not only watching warscrolls etc. but that's only my opinion, and glad those changes happened.

That may have been the mono-build at tournaments.  I haven’t seen that data.  I what I do know is they were still under the 25% tournament win rate so statistically okay under the four-alliance structure of AoS.  Personally PE nerfing or GWs normal Death nerfing doesn’t matter as much as the fact they never “fix” anything.  People just have to wish their next book finally gets around to it.

Aside Changehost immediately changed the meta on the day DoT of re-released.  Eel Force is still out there broken.

Online culture has opened up a fascination world of meta-gaming with GW.  People can run political campaigns to get what they want so some problems are gleefully nerfed while most are ignored.  OBR can enjoy the garbage bin of the tournament scene.  At least they can still be in it compared to other hipster Death factions.

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On 9/4/2020 at 6:43 AM, Lionheart said:

Mmmh Petrifex + double catapult dominated the meta till the nerf in truth. And personally i'm in favour of evrything that makes games and strategies more deep, and another terrain feature gives alot of deeps, since you are forced to build a list thinking about that aswell, and not only watching warscrolls etc. but that's only my opinion, and glad those changes happened.

This is just literally not true.. at all? PE had multiple different builds that had varying degrees of success, from Nagash to Cav heavy to running Kata and Arkan. Some even had stalkers and Morghasts. Furthermore, even if your statement was true, which again, it just isn't, the changes to PE has had no effect on catapult, which is the real source of your complaint. If anything, I welcome your compaints in a few months when you realize that the next best OBR build is Kata + 2 crawlers, so pretty much the same with less diversity. 

Edited by Btimmy
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In my opinion, during the Petrifex era we had more options. I was one of the players of the Katakros-Crawlers list, but you can also use Nagash and riders, Katakros+Arkhan+Golithzars, or most of the models without Katakros.

Now... or you´re playing some list like stalliarch or crematorians, or you´re going to focus on Katakros (like me) forgetting other options. Yes, we´re going to see (probably) more sub-factions, but less variety... In my opinion, ofc.

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On 9/6/2020 at 5:30 AM, Btimmy said:

This is just literally not true.. at all? PE had multiple different builds that had varying degrees of success, from Nagash to Cav heavy to running Kata and Arkan. Some even had stalkers and Morghasts. Furthermore, even if your statement was true, which again, it just isn't, the changes to PE has had no effect on catapult, which is the real source of your complaint. If anything, I welcome your compaints in a few months when you realize that the next best OBR build is Kata + 2 crawlers, so pretty much the same with less diversity. 

Sorry but where am i complaining about something? I just said that i'm happy with the realm rules since help ppl shut down heavy ranged lists, soz if you took it personal but was just a statment about how happy i am about that change .-. (Why should i even complain, i just play local tournaments composed by the same 10-15 players XD)

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"Mmmh Petrifex + double catapult dominated the meta till the nerf in truth" 

This statement is both completely false, and the part of your statement I interpreted as a complaint. If it wasn't meant as such, then it is just a false statement. However, my point still stands in that MP + Katakros + Double crawler will in fact be the new list that OBR plays. 

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3 minutes ago, Btimmy said:

"Mmmh Petrifex + double catapult dominated the meta till the nerf in truth" 

This statement is both completely false, and the part of your statement I interpreted as a complaint. If it wasn't meant as such, then it is just a false statement. However, my point still stands in that MP + Katakros + Double crawler will in fact be the new list that OBR plays. 

Where is it false? that's just a small example, btw you misunderstood, not complaining about nothing, i'm just happy about realm rules, for the third time XD

BTW enjoy the truth XD

Top-Ossiarch-Bonereapers-Lists.jpg

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15 minutes ago, Lionheart said:

Where is it false? that's just a small example, btw you misunderstood, not complaining about nothing, i'm just happy about realm rules, for the third time XD

BTW enjoy the truth XD

Top-Ossiarch-Bonereapers-Lists.jpg

Of all of those lists, half of them were the build you were mentioning. 5/10 of them were not that build. That is not dominating the meta, it isn't even dominating inter-faction diversity. I mean if you want to call five lists out of 10 examples that did well at a few tournaments dominating the meta, that's fine, but it literally isn't true based on the very information you provided. 

Edited by Btimmy
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5 minutes ago, Btimmy said:

Of all of those lists, half of them were the build you were mentioning. 5/10 of them were not that build. That is not dominating the meta, it isn't even dominating inter-faction diversity. I mean if you want to call five lists out of 10 examples that did well at a few tournaments dominating the meta, that's fine, but it literally isn't true based on the very information you provided. 

Can't understand your point and why so salty, well then i apologize for the form, had to say: petrifex + double catapult was a list a lot present in the meta pre nerf, not dominating, are you ok with that? :)

Edited by Lionheart
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1 minute ago, Lionheart said:

Can't understand your point and why so salty, well then i apologize for the form, had to say: petrifex + double catapult was a list a lot present in the meta pre nerf, not dominating, are you ok with that? :)

I'm not salty, I apologize if I come off as such. I'm just pointing out that a lot of people had ideas about the state of OBR that are not supported by actual facts. I find it odd that those similar people often have no such concerns about other armies that share similar alleged "problems"  such as IDK who has one valid unit, or HGB which are PE mortek guard except better in every way. 

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6 minutes ago, Btimmy said:

I'm not salty, I apologize if I come off as such. I'm just pointing out that a lot of people had ideas about the state of OBR that are not supported by actual facts. I find it odd that those similar people often have no such concerns about other armies that share similar alleged "problems"  such as IDK who has one valid unit, or HGB which are PE mortek guard except better in every way. 

It's ok man you don't even need to apologize, maybe i expressed bad myself and my statement, i'm a OBR player aswell, has been my love since the release, and most of the times i'm well known as "that guy" just for playing it (think that i play the soulreaper and never played a single catapult so you can imagine). I agree with you that the petrifex era in general gave us a bad reputation, but luckily new tomes and those new realm rules (sorry for that again XD), as long as no more multiple fnp will change people's mind.

Edited by Lionheart
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27 minutes ago, Lionheart said:

It's ok man you don't even need to apologize, maybe i expressed bad myself and my statement, i'm a OBR player aswell, has been my love since the release, and most of the times i'm well known as "that guy" just for playing it (think that i play the soulreaper and never played a single catapult so you can imagine). I agree with you that the petrifex era in general gave us a bad reputation, but luckily new tomes and those new realm rules (sorry for that again XD), as long as no more multiple fnp will change people's mind.

Yeah PE change and loss of multiple FNP hit Death super hard in general, while not really affecting any of the stronger armies. 

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I had another game against Tzeench yesterday and I must admit it was a disaster.

I put:

Quote

 

Katakros

40 morteks

10 morteks

10 morteks

2x crawlers

2x harvesters

 

After the first spell casting and shooting, I had 22 morteks from the big block and 1 harvester was already gone.

I charged into him and killed a lot of pinks and blues but then another round and shooting came and I was left with 10 morteks (one of the tens), 1 crawler, 1 harvester and Katakros. We stopped as it didn't make sense. Maybe if I had a double-turn and was lucky in my shooting with crawlers, I could do anything but...

Honestly, this was terrible. How can one fight flamers which deal, say, 18 attacks on 2+ with re-roll, D3 damage each...?

Do you have any means how to deal with shooting armies which start the 1st round?

I think that Petrifex was our only weapon against it. I have no clue why GW decided to hit us so hard but they definitely made our lists competitive at our level only.

Edited by daf
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3 hours ago, daf said:

I had another game against Tzeench yesterday and I must admit it was a disaster.

I put:

After the first spell casting and shooting, I had 22 morteks from the big block and 1 harvester was already gone.

I charged into him and killed a lot of pinks and blues but then another round and shooting came and I was left with 10 morteks (one of the tens), 1 crawler, 1 harvester and Katakros. We stopped as it didn't make sense. Maybe if I had a double-turn and was lucky in my shooting with crawlers, I could do anything but...

Honestly, this was terrible. How can one fight flamers which deal, say, 18 attacks on 2+ with re-roll, D3 damage each...?

Do you have any means how to deal with shooting armies which start the 1st round?

I think that Petrifex was our only weapon against it. I have no clue why GW decided to hit us so hard but they definitely made our lists competitive at our level only.

I mean you are facing probably the single best list in the game. Most armies would have the same experience you did, and PE wouldn't have really saved you much. I don't really have any advice to give other than just that some armies don't have the tools to deal with other armies, and this is pretty much one of those cases. 

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Yeah, that's exactly what my opponent said. Still, so frustrating. But he also said that it would be the same with his Seraphons (if not even worse).

I wonder if it would be the same with KO, Fyreslyers and possibly well assembled lists of CoS. Haven't played against them but I am afraid it could be.

The problem is that the number of these armies seems to be growing and we got nerfed getting nothing instead...

If we at least got some teleport. Slow armies like ours should get it if they are to stay competitive.

Edited by daf
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KO yes, Seraphon yes, CoS maybe, Fyreslayers probably not. FS are still a melee army predominantly, and MP + Katakros is going to be strong against melee armies. HGB's are still better than Mortek Guard by a lot, but we will be able to bring our recursion to bear and possibly outgrind. The other shooty/heavy magic armies are still going to destroy us just like they did pre-nerf. OBR doesn't have tricks, teleports, mortal wound output, or strong MW defense. This makes mobile, ranged, magic heavy, strong defensive, and MW heavy armies our biggest problem. Most armies can build in such a way to be one of those things, and thus it is often the opponents game to lose when they face OBR. If they just decide to try to smash their way through Mortek Guard in melee, they will likely lose, complain, and we get nerfed (this is what happened with PE). If they play any other way, the game is much much harder for OBR to win.  

Edited by Btimmy
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Bleeeh. List submissions for the team event is on Sunday.  We're doing a practice day/team meeting Sunday morning.

8 teams of 5, 3 rounds.  Blade's Edge in Ghyran, Knife to the Heart in Ulgu, Forcing the Hand in Ghur. Team gets two secondaries each, no replications.

I'm 99% running.. Praetorians. Katacross, Soulmason (Artificer's Blade, Empower Weapons), 3x20 Morteks, 2 Crawlers, 3 Stalkers. It's probably the most competitive list I can build.

I'm not sold on Empower Weapons. Empower Shields seems like a waste with no stacking ward saves. I already have two -1 to hit modifiers, so I probably don't need Drain. I don't think I need more command points, so I don't think I need Arcane Command. Protection of Nagash? lol

Anyone got any interesting tech, list thoughts or scenario insights?

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Empower weapons is the best option. Don't sleep on 20 guard with +1 attack from Katakros hitting on 2's, RR 1's, 5-6's explode. I would probably tweak the list slightly pending unit availability. Drop the stalkers for cav, then cut the Soulmason and 1 block of 20 for arkan. You don't need the artefact, and recurring 6 and/or healing Kata/Arkan for 6 per turn is really solid. 

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