AoS 2 - Ossiarch Bonereapers Discussion

[Greasygeek]

So whats the verdict on Nagash lists now. Are they gone?

[Goldy751]

overall im pretty happy with this faq.

the PE change is pretty big but needed to happen. Im exited to try out the other subfactions.

Tournament players are going to be pissed about this PE change but finally I can just play bonereapers in casual games again and have fun with this army.

[CorvoMaltes]

The only thing that I don´t like is Vorkmortian points unchanged, he should be 160/140, not 180. And about Petrifex,they had to change it drastically or nobody would play any other legion. Even with the nerf, +1 rend, rerolling save rolls with mortek is probably one of the tankiest armies in the game. And if you wanna be unkilable on melee you can just use Katakros. I hope next year they give us more units, like fast monsters or ranged units (mortek archers could be cool)

[Scurvydog]

Katakros builds with Praetorians will probably pop up more in a somewhat weaker version than the PE build used to be. Even if he drops in wounds, he will still have 18" range on +1 save, which is still not shabby no matter how you look at it. Run with Arkhan as a buddy and you can always heal him 6 wounds per turn if need be...

Yea its a nerf, but it had to happen, although the change was just lazy and uninventive and no closer to the fluff. It also steps on the toes of Nagash builds a LOT, and I doubt we will see many PE Nagash, or even OBR Nagash lists anymore, unless Seraphon, Tzeentch and Teclis lists dominate all (partially already happening), null myiad might be much more interesting looking into than the more obvious choices.

[AngryPanda]

I feel like this is an unpopular opinion, but I’m pretty happy about the faq. I’m a Crematorian and Katakros/Mortis Praetorians player, so I’m a bit biased when it comes to the changes. What I was most worried about was the potential changes to Mortek Guard going up in points; I’m now very relieved that they stayed the same. It’s also a nice surprised to also see stalkers, guards, and Morghast get a point reduction. Granted, the Soulreaper and Vokmortian should have seen reductions in point costs to make them a lot more viable, but I was more concerned with the potential negative changes as opposed to the positives. 
 

The Petrifix Elite deserved a nerf. The default +1 save to every unit in the army was too powerful, especially combined with their command ability that gives additional rend. However, rerolling save rolls of 1 in melee only is a too draconian; it should have been “ignore rend of -1”or rerolling to everything, not just melee. Yet they still have the -1 to rend strat, one of the more powerful abilities in the game, so I feel like they still have some merit when it comes to potential on the board. 

[Overread]

Honestly I think most Ossiarch players accepted that Petrifax was outright broken as a bonus. That and it was also a no-brain better option than any other subfaction. So not only was it broken between battletomes it was broken within the battletome as it presented a no-choice option. Sure you could take other options, but you were throwing away vast potential doing so. 

Its actually the most welcome change, far more so than trying to up the points on things to try and make them more balanced with the effective 2+ saves. 

 

Petrifax has potential just like the others and that's really where  we want subfactions - choices with potential for each rather than outright win/lose choices. 

[simakover]

2 hours ago, Greasygeek said:

So whats the verdict on Nagash lists now. Are they gone?

Also interesting in Nagash now, im just started collect Nagash + boneshaper + harvester + 60 mortek guard list, now doubt is it usefull anymore(

[Overread]

Nagash was and still is a magical powerhouse before he ever joined the Ossiarchs. So he's still more than viable.

[simakover]

1 minute ago, Overread said:

Nagash was and still is a magical powerhouse before he ever joined the Ossiarchs. So he's still more than viable.

but looks like ot is not a tourney list for now. OBR still good, but nagash was struggle against ranged armies( that dominate meta now) and now struggle even more. Im thinking may be pony based list would works better with Nagash

[AngryPanda]

25 minutes ago, Overread said:

Honestly I think most Ossiarch players accepted that Petrifax was outright broken as a bonus. That and it was also a no-brain better option than any other subfaction. So not only was it broken between battletomes it was broken within the battletome as it presented a no-choice option. Sure you could take other options, but you were throwing away vast potential doing so. 

Its actually the most welcome change, far more so than trying to up the points on things to try and make them more balanced with the effective 2+ saves. 

 

Petrifax has potential just like the others and that's really where  we want subfactions - choices with potential for each rather than outright win/lose choices. 

I agree with your analysis, as the Petrifex were always the obvious choice in terms of maxing an OBR army’s potential; they were the #1 choice by far, especially in competitive gaming. Now that they’ve been nerfed it gives the other subfactions a chance to shine. 

[Sception]

Petrifex nerf was expected, but even so feels excessive.  Still the best CA, so not entirely worthless, but yeah.  I wanted a nerf, and that still hurts.  The restriction to melee only feels especially uncalled for.

Decreases on immortis & stalkers are nice, though I don't kniw if they're nuce enough to see much of them, especially post petrifex.  I'd say immortis might have a role in katakros praetoreans to keep his aura range up a bit longer, but even at 180 points I still don't see how you'd fit them reasonably.  Maybe we'll see something.

Lack of points drops for soulreaper & vokmortian is disappointing, as both are pretty obviously bad next to boneshapers & soulmasons respectively, and those units are only 'ok', with their spelcasting far too easily shut fown by the myriad of stronger and/or cheaper spellcasters running around in various casty lists these days, be they daemons, lizards, rats, aelves, or what have you.

Without petrifex, Arkhan & Nagash are also probably prohibitavely costed, especially as their arcane powers are likewise frequently eclipsed by rivals far cheaper than they are.  Arkhan in particular is extremely fragile, as the other og mortartchs are.

It's nice to see acknowlegment from the devs that morghasts are underpowered, but I don't think any points change will fix them.  From day one of AoS, their warscrolls have been the problem, yet despite multiple opportunities they've remained largely unchanged from their Vampire Counts Compendium rules.  In OBR espevially I dom't see them having much of a place without that sort of bottom up rethink.

Overall, I definitely think OBR is in a worse place than we were, if not by as much as I had feared - I was steeling myself for points hikes on morteks, katakros, and crawlers, which, combined with a petrifex nerf, might have killed the faction for a season at least.

As it is, we might see a bit more variety in legions - imo both stalliarch and praetorians have strong claims to being the successors to petrifex, and the rend CA is good enough that we might be ruling out the elite too soon.  But we might see less list variety in terms of units since petrifex worked for basically anything you might want to run, while praetorians in particular push you heavily into katakros builds with little room to play around in standard 2k games.  And we'll probably see less if OBR in general, espevially since a lot of the newer hotness already seemed poised to ecploit our weaknesses to shooting, magic, out of phase shenanigans, and just getting straight up out-maneuvered in the objective game.

 

All in all, not great, but could have been worse.  Now we'll at least get to see if the faction can stand on its own without the petrifex bonus.  If not, hopefully the devs will see fit to make appropriate adjustments next time around.

[CorvoMaltes]

1 hour ago, AngryPanda said:

save to every unit in the army was too powerful, especially combined with their command ability that gives additional rend. However, rerolling save

I think we just need archer units, mortek crossbows would be awesome. And some fast units would be welcome too, like chariots. 

[Sception]

31 minutes ago, CorvoMaltes said:

I think we just need archer units, mortek crossbows would be awesome. And some fast units would be welcome too, like chariots. 

Oh, what I wouldn't give for mortek archers & chariots, plus maybe infantry & monster-riding Liege variants, and of course the bone fortress walls & gate house that were featured in the release promotions...

The OBR release felt important when it first happened, like a big setting change that AoS had been building up to narratively, like something we were just seeing the start of.  It's still too soon to be antsy about an expansion to their range, but I've got high, high hopes that we've only seen the start of the ossiarchs.

[ACBelMutie]

9 minutes ago, Sception said:

Oh, what I wouldn't give for mortek archers & chariots, plus maybe infantry & monster-riding Liege variants, and of course the bone fortress walls & gate house that were featured in the release promotions...

The OBR release felt important when it first happened, like a big setting change that AoS had been building up to narratively, like something we were just seeing the start of.  It's still too soon to be antsy about an expansion to their range, but I've got high, high hopes that we've only seen the start of the ossiarchs.

I don't think they will realease new models soon, so time to change the lists and adpt the new meta.

Greetings

[Sception]

1 hour ago, ACBelMutie said:

I don't think they will realease new models soon, so time to change the lists and adpt the new meta.

Oh, certainly not soon.  Not this ghb either, apart from maybe an underworlds or warcry release with tacked on AoS rules.

So yeah, new meta it is, though i'm not sure what that will be, apart from less obr in general most likely, but between tzeentch & lrl, that was already probably the case.

 

[AngryPanda]

2 hours ago, CorvoMaltes said:

I think we just need archer units, mortek crossbows would be awesome. And some fast units would be welcome too, like chariots. 

I’ve also thought about what direction they’re going to go for the model range, and I too have thought about what it would be like if they added chariots, and especially archers. Part of the reason why there is a lack of ranged units for death is b/c undead hordes lack the individualism and are simply reanimated vessels; but each mortek construct is an individual with its own consciousness and personality. I could definitely see it as an opportunity to introduce new models to further diversify the roaster. 
 

1 hour ago, ACBelMutie said:

I don't think they will realease new models soon, so time to change the lists and adpt the new meta.

Greetings

But I agree that most likely we aren’t going to see any new models for a while. Maybe the new models we get with Warhammer Underworlds that were teased via the bone scythe pic will introduce something interesting and new, but I have my doubts. 

[Obeisance]

RIP Petrifex Elite.

I have a team tournament in a month.  What the hell do I do now?

[Saxon]

2 minutes ago, Obeisance said:

RIP Petrifex Elite.

I have a team tournament in a month.  What the hell do I do now?

Thank god for this. So so sick of seeing single builds for OBR. I have found PE to be the most unfun list to play against. 

It will encourage players to look at alternative list builds and will improve GW sales as  people scramble to remain WAAC 😄

[simakover]

that Nagash list would works better now? 60 guards + harvester or kavalos + raiders? 

[Obeisance]

I think Petrifex probably won't get taken now. It's like what, you're taking it for Bludgeon?

Options?

Mortis Prators with Katacross, getting the +1 save back and other stuff.

Spam Crematorians, because your stuff is going to die anyway now.

Stalliarchs with cav, because run/charge.

...

Problem is, you need magic defense and taking Katacross doesn't do that.

[Sception]

Crematorians are still bad.  A min8scule chance of dealing a mortal wound when a model dies would be amazing in gloomspite or legions of nagash, but OBR doesn't have the numbers or the recursion to capitalize on it.  Harvester doesn't even help much due yo range issues.

Stalliarch though are good, counterintuitively better for stalkers, morteks, and mages than kav & liege, since stalkers & mortek need the speed more, and if you don't take a liege they dont have to take their legion artefact, and can instead take one of the better generic options.

[Neinball]

4 hours ago, Saxon said:

Thank god for this. So so sick of seeing single builds for OBR. I have found PE to be the most unfun list to play against. 

It will encourage players to look at alternative list builds and will improve GW sales as  people scramble to remain WAAC 😄

Not really. OBR already had a pretty wide selection of viable lists, they were all just petrifex.

I'd wager you're likely to see even less variation in lists now because mortek guard are going to be even more valuable now for the less survivable subfactions. 

[Sedraxis]

It would be fine if they didn't overtune the latest shooting units and one dead frog in particular. Especially since the armies that bring said units can also outdrop you and shoot your stuff without effort, essentiLly reducing OBR to a stormcast army without deepstrike in those matches.

They should've turned Petrifex in an answer to that problem, keep the save against shooting only or something.

The addition of the "1 negate max" rule doesn't help either. Would've loved to see a hardcap on mw output or something to compliment it.

[choocheelo]

I dont have any word for what they do. Shooting meta aos2k20 will smash that one, what Death have. 

 

[alterdeqip]

seems they force us to use cavalry... with 6 pile in there is a chance to get to the shooty stuff through the screen... but it is not for sure (