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Erdemo86

Best/Worst Warbands

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Hey guys, which do you think of the warbands are the best and which the worst. Are there some  warbands that stand out like a top Tier or feeling stronger then others ? Or are there warbands where  you would das they feel very weak compared  to others?Or are they all Balanced ?

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I haven't experienced every warband yet but I have had the opportunity to play around half of the available ones so far. 

Legions of Nagash seems strong possible even broken when you look at their Senechals.  Strength 5 with very reliable damage and 15 wounds is off the chain for 120 points. They can easily field 10+ models with more than half be senechals. They have very useful abilites on their team card and the necromancer is both tanky and killy. 

Conversely Daughters of Khaine seems average to weak. They are reliant on crits and their "normal" damage is always 1 unless it's a leader. They are fast buts that's it. Untamed Beasts are considered to have one of the worst units in Plains Runners and it basically the same stats as a witch elf for 10 fewer points. Think about that. Their ability card is generally a mess as well, being highly restrictive of who can make use of the abilities. Everything is either over pointed, underpowered or both. The Gorgi is the only decent unit. 

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I think it's still too soon for this.  Warbands people said were garbage, I played successfully.  I read somewhere people were complaining about Nighthaunt STR3 not being able to kill.. so that's going to be my new thing.  I think all the warbands can handle depending on the terrain and missions.

 

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Odd, Untamed and DoK are really strong here.

 

With the lion being one of the most lethal single target units - with a great stat line, a cheap [Double] bonus attack and a slightly more expensive [Triple] but guaranteed damage ability.  The other runners are trash but they are cheap.

 

Similarly for DoK, their melee Medusa leader is an absolute monster while they can still field cheap infantry, and a flyer for treasure stealing.

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Too early to call. There have barely been any tournaments and the one I did see report winners had still houseruled their twists a bit. Even then, the campaign mode is an entirely different beast altogether.

This forum's userbase also tends to be way reliant on theorycraft, so even after a few months on I'd say its better to just speak with people on your store who run the factions. Or better yet, make a point of playing as/against them yourself.

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4 hours ago, Kilofix said:

Odd, Untamed and DoK are really strong here.

 

With the lion being one of the most lethal single target units - with a great stat line, a cheap [Double] bonus attack and a slightly more expensive [Triple] but guaranteed damage ability.  The other runners are trash but they are cheap.

 

Similarly for DoK, their melee Medusa leader is an absolute monster while they can still field cheap infantry, and a flyer for treasure stealing.

I wasn't complaining about Untamed Beasts,  just stating they have arguably the weakest unit option in the Runner though he is only 55 points. I actually think the Untamed Beasts are really good overall with good unit diversity. I was mostly just trying to say DoK is an army of Runners without the unit diversity (damage wise). 

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As said above, a lot of comments will be anecdotes until we see some big tournaments.

I had a lot of success with the gitz. Right now the splintered fangs feel a bit outmatched in every way. I need to play the nighthaunts a bit more to make my own opinion on them.

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I don't know that we need one very narrow (and likely highly modified to be able to work in it) style of play (tournaments) to tell us which warbands perform better overall than others.

That said, I do agree that it may be too early to properly gauge. I've played a bunch of games with and against various warbands, and I have seen a tend. Since you cannot predict the 4-card arrangement, you ought to plan for the more common situations, taking on the chin in the outliers.

To my mind, the most important factors are, in this order:

1. High movement

2. Flight

3. Number of attacks

4. Quantity of bodies

5. Availability of both cheap bodies and high quality elites

 

With those in mind, and based on experience, Gloomspite Gitz are the clear (in my view) top of the heap. Flesheaters are also strong contenders.

I have yet to find a bad warband, as even my prediction that Unmade would stink has proven inaccurate. I have not tried my Cypher Lords yet, but I suspect they may prove very difficult to use well.

 

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1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

I don't know that we need one very narrow (and likely highly modified to be able to work in it) style of play (tournaments) to tell us which warbands perform better overall than others.

That said, I do agree that it may be too early to properly gauge. I've played a bunch of games with and against various warbands, and I have seen a tend. Since you cannot predict the 4-card arrangement, you ought to plan for the more common situations, taking on the chin in the outliers.

To my mind, the most important factors are, in this order:

1. High movement

2. Flight

3. Number of attacks

4. Quantity of bodies

5. Availability of both cheap bodies and high quality elites

 

With those in mind, and based on experience, Gloomspite Gitz are the clear (in my view) top of the heap. Flesheaters are also strong contenders.

I have yet to find a bad warband, as even my prediction that Unmade would stink has proven inaccurate. I have not tried my Cypher Lords yet, but I suspect they may prove very difficult to use well.

 

By your list (and by my experience) I would rate Ironjawz into the garbage tier.

1. High movement (HAHAHAHA)

2. Flight (Nope)

3. Number of attacks (Decent, but nothing flashy)

4. Quantity of bodies (Probably the lowest of all warbands)

5. Availability of both cheap bodies and high quality elites (neither - brutes are tough but crippled by their 3" movement and 1" reach)

 

Add in top an absolutely useless double (Shield Bash) and a worse-than-the-general quad and I have for you a really strong contender for the worst warband in Warcry at the moment.

And anyone who comes telling me they've had success with Ironjawz, come back after playing some scenarios that require moving, assassinating or anything else really that is not "kill them all" (not sure an actual "kill them all" scenario even exists, but it seems this is the scenario people base the imaginary strength of Ironjawz on).

 

 

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     I generally agree with @Sleboda on the tournament view and warcry (maybe I’m a *bit* more venomous about it though). As well as how he mostly views/ranks the factors, though I would also say their double and triple abilities need to be factored in as well. 

     I honestly think Ironjaws need a 2” range on several fighters and kinda hope it’s just a typo that every one of them have a 1” range. In the correct scenario they do shine, but in anything else they are handicapped. Hopefully this will be addressed in an FAQ if not by changing the values then at least telling us why they’re range is so low (maybe we’re simply overlooking something). 

     Overall all of the chaos bands are fairly well balanced. Different bands play differently so it comes down to player skill, scenario, and the player’s play style. If you want to play the cabal or the cypher lords like Ironjaws or Golems... well you’ll lose just about every time. 

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DoK elites are over priced by about 15 pts a piece. Unless you roll above average amount of 6s no amount of strategy is going to make up for 3 strength and 1 damage army wide against another decent player. 

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18 hours ago, tom_gore said:

By your list (and by my experience) I would rate Ironjawz into the garbage tier.

And anyone who comes telling me they've had success with Ironjawz, come back after playing some scenarios that require moving, assassinating or anything else really that is not "kill them all" (not sure an actual "kill them all" scenario even exists, but it seems this is the scenario people base the imaginary strength of Ironjawz on).

Oddly enough, in my limited experience with them (and having fully expected their low movement to be an issue), I have done moderately well. With charge and Waaagh I mostly overcame the limits.

That said, I do think they are going to struggle to win consistently. If I had to put a finger to the wind, is guess I'll win about 35% of the time with them.

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1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

Oddly enough, in my limited experience with them (and having fully expected their low movement to be an issue), I have done moderately well. With charge and Waaagh I mostly overcame the limits.

That said, I do think they are going to struggle to win consistently. If I had to put a finger to the wind, is guess I'll win about 35% of the time with them.

Problem with Waaagh! is that it's a 6" leader-only pulse, which means usually more than half of your warband is unable to benefit from it at any time. Also, to use it, you often need to activate your leader first, which in many cases is a very unoptimal choice.

Charge is decent, but it also would need to have the Waaagh! pulse activated before it to be able to utilize most of the 6" range of the ability.

Once your opponent realizes these limitations, he's more often than not able to work around them. Of course you might get lucky and get the "kill your opponents shield" scenario and welcome them to try.

 

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It seems like speed and number of bodies wins a lot of the preset battle plans. I've run Legions a few times now and won every game, it's just hard for my opponent to get around so many skeletons, especially if I'm super cheeky and keep them around 1.5 inches from their models, so they have to use a move action just to get into combat. 

Bonesplitterz has been doing pretty well for me also, once I realized that their 'Lotsa Arrows' ability stacks, and the Stabbas hit like a dragon on whatever they get within range of.

 

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I played over 10 Games now and it feels like all warbands are Kind of balanced. Only stormcast felt like they are  a Bit op. 

Whats youre opinion, do you think the warbands are all Same strong or do you feel like there are warbands that are stronger than others?

which warbands do you thinkare on the bettet side and which on the Not so good side?

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I feel like the Chaos boxed warbands are very well balanced with each other, but the non-chaos are less so (both with each other and against Chaos). I'm not sure how much of this comes from the models/abilities and how much from the customization and optimization possible by bringing AoS models of choice and number to the game.

I've only played a few times but have watched dozens of batreps and almost all Chaos bands are using a single box (so you can't bring multiple Rocktusk Prowlers, Drillmasters, or other great units) compared to the other warbands consisting of specifically tailored unit composition.

Stormcast were borderline broken before the FAQ, now they're just strong. Gloomspite are strong as well, but a lot of what I've seen is using their Quad, Sneaky Stab, in a way that I don't believe is intended (i.e. adding to each hit/crit instead of just adding extra damage once). I would flat out refuse to play with someone that wants to use the broken interpretation of that ability even if GW were to clarify that the broken interpretation is in fact in intended.

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I can second the legion of Nagash being really good. I made a list and gave it to a friend who never played Warcry before, and they repeatedly run my warbands over like nothing else. The free bonus moves let them get in good with their combat phase, and if you’re not careful you can just be destroyed with all the high strength high damage attacks. 

 

Add to to the fact you can easily get 10 guys with a lot of high wound count heroes, and they are incredibly good.

 

will say outside of the other kits the untamed beasts are pretty good. They have an incredible mixture of elite Killy units and fast cannon fodder, and can put out amazing damage with the kitty. So far my favorite warband, but I look forward to trying out the splintered fang some day.

Edited by Acid_Nine

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So out of all the armies i have played and played against (Ones that i played: IDK, Untamed beasts, Iron Golems, Unmade, ones i played against: DoK, IJ, Untamed, Unmade, Goblin, NH). For sure Unmade are the strongest, then DoK second, followed by IJ's, but Untamed is the most fun for me so far, Unmade was just to.. straight forward even for this game, at least the way i played them, a friend plays them completely differently (all elites) where i play them with 2 elites and 9 spear guys, their double is something else, and spears being 4D crits, the elite (2 dagger guys) ability on triples is insane too, move 10-12" and aoe bomb an area, they will for sure go after him, prep you 9 spear guys and just laugh. The 3 games i played with them (I know a small table sample) just completely owned every game. The dagger guys easily dealing 60 wounds a game, and god help if you pile up a few games and i get 2 triples, its GG (happened the first game, so he learned, but still able to get 2-3 rolls every triple). And able to lower toughness, even by 1 can change the game, gets the leader in a good spot vs lower toughness, kill them off and move+attack again.

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I've played Cypher Lords and Iron Golems now against a variety of opponents. I feel like the most unbalanced aspect of the game the scenario generation. The tournament scenarios that I've seen seem much more balanced. Iron Golems aren't as bad as I expected but I definitely find their abilities to be lacking, especially Spine Cleaving blow (adds strength to the next attack action equal to dice value and is a double). Due to the value of crits, somewhat low number of attacks that Iron Golems get, and that it only effects the next attack action I feel its worse than the Onslaught universal ability in almost all circumstances.

Edited by Forrix

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Onslaught is better than almost all faction doubles. Due to crits being so important, number of attacks will almost always be more valuable than strength. It's unfortunate that abilities and points weren't balanced a bit better (attacks being undervalued with strength/toughness overvalued pretty much across the board).

Edited by Pickle The Hutt

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On 9/18/2019 at 2:40 AM, Pickle The Hutt said:

Onslaught is better than almost all faction doubles. Due to crits being so important, number of attacks will almost always be more valuable than strength. It's unfortunate that abilities and points weren't balanced a bit better (attacks being undervalued with strength/toughness overvalued pretty much across the board).

They put way too much importance on crits and yet dont seem to understand it. With spreads like 1/4 damage, a single crit is doing as much damage as four hits. This means regardless of whether your hitting on 3+ or 5+, that one crit is going to be the large majority of your damage. Everything is just chip damage to ensure that your crits don’t fall short by one or two damage. Personally I’d like to see crit damage reduced or bad damage increased to 2 on more models. Without crits most high wound models in the game are practically unbeatable but in turn this makes their toughness values practically pointless.

 

As to the primary topic, I’ve played a mixture of games with Cypher Lords, DoK, and Nighthaunt.

Cypher Lords seemed pretty decent at killing what I needed them too but folded as soon as someone looked at them the wrong way. Their movement abilities allow them to catch opponents off guard and assassinate key targets, putting your opponent in a tough spot for missions like Bloodmarked.

DoK might be one of the swingyest warbands in the game, throwing lots of dice but basically doing nothing outside of crits. Good luck will leave you feeling like a god, bad luck will leave you feeling like you did nothing all game. The Gorgai is mandatory for a serious list and everything  outside of one heartrender and witch aelf variants can be safely ignored making them somewhat predictable. If you can pull off the leader’s triple you can do some serious damage.

Nighthaunt seemed more consistent, doing little damage outside of the spirit hosts but being somewhat tough despite their low wound count. Flying makes them very good in maps with lots of terrain and being able to revive makes them very good in missions where you need to keep parts of your warband alive. In contrast, they do a bad job when they are required to kill things and are reliant on triples for their best stuff.

 

As to the warbands I’ve fought, unmade proved the strongest with their damage abilities and leader putting out crazy burst that was hard to run away from (since they can move twice and then use them) and ironjawz seemed the weakest (too easy to kite and don’t have the bodies to hold objectives) though a good waaaagh can change things things in their favour.

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im happy to see legions of Nagash doing well if not for the resin i want but ill take what i can get.

out of raw curiosity, what does everyone think of idoneth and nighthaunt?

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18 hours ago, recoilia said:

im happy to see legions of Nagash doing well if not for the resin i want but ill take what i can get.

Resin in the legions of nagash? Afaik there are no resin models needed for this warband 🤔

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There are a couple heroes/units that are finecast tho, IDK if they are in warcry under mercenaries/allies or not tho.

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On 10/2/2019 at 7:34 PM, recoilia said:

im happy to see legions of Nagash doing well if not for the resin i want but ill take what i can get.

out of raw curiosity, what does everyone think of idoneth and nighthaunt?

did you mean reason, friend?

 

Nighthaunt seems to be a little lower on the power scale, but they are tough and not once have I managed to kill the spirit host in that warband. I usually win against them with my Untamed beasts because they have high toughness but low strength and ability to wound (though the FAQ change may have helped that.)

Idoneth can be great! I only played a nearly all eel list and as long as there is no objective to hold, they can kick ass quite ell, and are a pain to kill! Unfortunately I would need to get some extra thralls in order to really try them out to see if they are good.

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