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Inspiring Presence - Bad for the game?


PJetski

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I dont think IP is broken or too strong. CPs are generally really important, and having to “waste” a CP sucks for a lot of armies. 

For armies with an abundance of CPs, it is probably a matter of balance. Too many benefits/buffs are passive/aura rather than CP for that army, or they simply have too many/too easy ways of generating them.

 Using a CP should be a decision with powerful effects.

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I don't know that I think Inspiring Presence is too powerful, but it certainly is really annoying and bit demoralizing.  I've seen a lot of proposals, but I haven't seen anyone mention having it double the unit's Bravery, which I think would be a good way to provide near immunity, but having it scale with the unit's Bravery and also leave them vulnerable to Bravery modifiers.

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5 hours ago, Nacnudllah said:

I don't know that I think Inspiring Presence is too powerful, but it certainly is really annoying and bit demoralizing.  I've seen a lot of proposals, but I haven't seen anyone mention having it double the unit's Bravery, which I think would be a good way to provide near immunity, but having it scale with the unit's Bravery and also leave them vulnerable to Bravery modifiers.

I like this idea alot.

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22 hours ago, Nacnudllah said:

I don't know that I think Inspiring Presence is too powerful, but it certainly is really annoying and bit demoralizing.  I've seen a lot of proposals, but I haven't seen anyone mention having it double the unit's Bravery, which I think would be a good way to provide near immunity, but having it scale with the unit's Bravery and also leave them vulnerable to Bravery modifiers.

That would be awesome, but there's still the problem of  aura abilities that some armies have.

 

 

The problem with all of this I see is that I don't think GW would rework all that system of two armies like skaven or gloomspite that have had their battletome released this year. It's GW you know 

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I actually think the negative feeling associated with battleshock is entirely down to Inspiring Presence. People have become too use to battleshock being something they ignore that when they are forced to suffer from it it feels like they’re being unfairly punished.

Battleshock should really work in the manner of a randomized damage modifier that rewards people for focusing priority targets, or placing key support units where they are. This allows for a balance between armies with few wounds that are relatively immune to battleshock, and high wound armies that are weak to it, by letting the high wound army punch about its normal damage. At the same time, it provides a natural balance when two high wound armies fight each other as the damage modifier is no longer necessary.

At the moment, the sheer amount of battleshock immunity has instead turned it into a damage modifier only some armies have to worry about. 

If all these effects where taken out/reworked, and IP reworked to something like auto-roll a 1 without proccing  abilities  (ie. adjust the random modifier to its lowest setting) then people would learn to deal with it more and I think it would be seen as more of a positive reward for dealing a lot of damage than a negative experience because you spent your last CP and can’t auto pass it.

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The battleshock rules should have special results on a roll of 1 or 6:

  • On a roll of 1 no models flee.
  • On a roll of 6, after any models have fled, an additional model flees.

Ok, what's the point? Well, even if your casualties surpass the Bravery of the unit, you can get lucky and save your it even if you can't afford Inspiring Presence.

Also, you need to consider spending the CP for Inspiring Presence even when the number of casualties is so low the battleshock test is a "can't fail", e.g a Bravery 7 unit taking 1 casualty.

In my mind, this makes it less necessary to pay for Inspiring Presence on large horde units, and more necessary to take casualties seriously in MSU armies.

-T10

 

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I think super-powered command point generation/abilities that ignore battleshock that aren't 'wholly within' has ruined it a bit. I love the challenge of having to save command points for either battleshock or command traits, these decisions can make or break a game and add a layer of intrigue.

Playing armies like gloomspite/trolls and their ridiculous CP generation mocks it to some extent because they cant spend CP's fast enough. 

I also dislike the DoK ability to basically turn off battleshock as an allegiance ability (unquenchable fervor).

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14 hours ago, T10 said:

The battleshock rules should have special results on a roll of 1 or 6:

  • On a roll of 1 no models flee.
  • On a roll of 6, after any models have fled, an additional model flees.

Ok, what's the point? Well, even if your casualties surpass the Bravery of the unit, you can get lucky and save your it even if you can't afford Inspiring Presence.

Would nullify some of the benefit of things like daemon banners (which already have that rule when rolling a 1).

6 hours ago, Saxon said:

Playing armies like gloomspite/trolls and their ridiculous CP generation mocks it to some extent because they cant spend CP's fast enough. 

^ this.  I think being able to generate so many command points that you're literally swimming in them really waters down what an important resource they were when they were originally introduced.  That said, it's a vast improvement to how command abilities worked in AoS1.

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On 9/4/2019 at 9:56 PM, Dead Scribe said:

Compare it to 40k, where the name of that game is to make sure that you have a never ending supply of command points.  That just seems like a design decision and whats fun, whereas running out of command points is not as fun, so they give you the ability to never have to worry about that.

But giving you more points than you have abilities to use them on just defeats the whole point of the system. If you’re gonna do that just make all CAs free to use and remove the bookkeeping that comes with them.

CAs should be tactical choices that force you to think carefully, this adding an extra layer of strategy (and thus fun) to the game. Allowing them to be used liberally to ignore other parts of the game just raises the question of why bother including that part of the game at all.

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1 hour ago, Yoshiya said:

But giving you more points than you have abilities to use them on just defeats the whole point of the system. If you’re gonna do that just make all CAs free to use and remove the bookkeeping that comes with them.

CAs should be tactical choices that force you to think carefully, this adding an extra layer of strategy (and thus fun) to the game. Allowing them to be used liberally to ignore other parts of the game just raises the question of why bother including that part of the game at all.

I do not want to spend points on IP, I need them for Hold the Line.

But then, Freeguild does not have a massive point generation potential.

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5 hours ago, Yoshiya said:

But giving you more points than you have abilities to use them on just defeats the whole point of the system. If you’re gonna do that just make all CAs free to use and remove the bookkeeping that comes with them.

CAs should be tactical choices that force you to think carefully, this adding an extra layer of strategy (and thus fun) to the game. Allowing them to be used liberally to ignore other parts of the game just raises the question of why bother including that part of the game at all.

They have already removed a lot of the tactical choices from the games because people did not enjoy those, and left the game as a streamlined affair.  Though I do agree that CAs going back to free to use like they were before wouldn't bother me.  It does remove a layer of book keeping that a lot of people find tedious.

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I have to firmly agree though i think the main culprit isn't inspiring prescience but things like the plague furnace with 40 monks either side or playing focal points against ritz who sendup being battle shock immune on their own and centre objective or they vermin lord with the 26inch range to make everything battleshock immune, yet 30 bloodletters lose 15 the others gone.

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