Basic questions: turn sequence, charge and melee weapons range

[PiotrW]

If you guys don't mind, here are two new newbie questions I stumbled upon... Could you help?

1. I've been trying to run a simulated mini-battle at home yesterday and I realized I don't quite understand the turn sequence. Does it go like this:

• Player A hero phase, Player A movement, Player A shooting, Player A charge, Player A combat, Player A battleshock... and then, Player B doing the same?
• Player A hero phase, Player B hero phase, Player A shooting, Player B shooting - and so on?
• Something else?

2. What's the exact role of the charge phase, aside from allowing the units some additional movement?

3. Where exactly does the range of melee weapons come into play? Why is it important? From what I gathered from the rules, a unit can fight enemy unit that's within its 3'' - and, before the attack, it piles on the enemy anyway. So, where does the weapon range factor in?

[michu]

1, It goes like that:

player A's Hero Phase

player A's Movement Phase

player A's Shooting Phase

player A's Charge Phase

player A's Combat Phase  - but here units of both players get to fight, first player A's unit, then player B's unit, then again Player A's unit until both players run out of units able to fight (there are abilities that can change the sequence but it's not important right now)

player A's Battleshock Phase

and then it's player B's turn.

2. Charging is your way to attack. Usually it's the only way to get within the 3'' of enemy unit (except clever use of piling in)

3. When you have 40 (or even 60) models in unit not every one will be able to attack. Units doesn't fight on unit vs unit basis but model vs model. If you have a 1'' range melee weapon then only 1st and 2nd ranks of models in your unit can fight (and only if they're on 25 mm bases).

[PiotrW]

3 hours ago, michu said:

1, It goes like that:

player A's Hero Phase

player A's Movement Phase

player A's Shooting Phase

player A's Charge Phase

player A's Combat Phase  - but here units of both players get to fight, first player A's unit, then player B's unit, then again Player A's unit until both players run out of units able to fight (there are abilities that can change the sequence but it's not important right now)

player A's Battleshock Phase

and then it's player B's turn.

Ah, so each player fights twice in a round? Once during their own combat phase and once during the opposing player's combat phase?

Also: if Player A attacks Player B's unit, does Player B have to retaliate with this unit, or can he attack with another one and leave this one doing nothing?

3 hours ago, michu said:

2. Charging is your way to attack. Usually it's the only way to get within the 3'' of enemy unit (except clever use of piling in)

Ah, see, that's another thing I don't quite get. The rules state that I cannot move my unit closer than 3'' to an enemy unit... so, if I do so and my unit is exactly 3'' from the enemy unit, can it attack the enemy unit in the combat phase?

3 hours ago, michu said:

3. When you have 40 (or even 60) models in unit not every one will be able to attack. Units doesn't fight on unit vs unit basis but model vs model. If you have a 1'' range melee weapon then only 1st and 2nd ranks of models in your unit can fight (and only if they're on 25 mm bases).

So, when making an attack, do I have to declare which model of my unit attacks which model of the enemy unit?

[TheMuphinMan]

1 hour ago, PiotrW said:

Ah, so each player fights twice in a round? Once during their own combat phase and once during the opposing player's combat phase?

Also: if Player A attacks Player B's unit, does Player B have to retaliate with this unit, or can he attack with another one and leave this one doing nothing?

Ah, see, that's another thing I don't quite get. The rules state that I cannot move my unit closer than 3'' to an enemy unit... so, if I do so and my unit is exactly 3'' from the enemy unit, can it attack the enemy unit in the combat phase?

So, when making an attack, do I have to declare which model of my unit attacks which model of the enemy unit?

you choose which unit you want to activate so if player A activates and a unit, unless that unit is providing a buff there is no point in attacking it when you could cripple a unit that hasnt activated yet.

no, you have to end a move outside of 3 inches

you attack with models against units. you declare all attacks with all weapons at the same time when you activate a unit

 

so activation order pick unit, pile in each model in that unit up to 3" with each model ending either the same distance or closer to the nearest enemy model and the unit maintains 1" cohesion. all models that can attack choose which unit they are targeting with each attack. roll hit/ wound/saves for the attack. defending player chooses where the damage goes for each unit that took damage.

[King Taloren]

3 hours ago, PiotrW said:

Also: if Player A attacks Player B's unit, does Player B have to retaliate with this unit, or can he attack with another one and leave this one doing nothing?

Yes and no. You do have to attack with all units in combat. You cannot chose to have a unit sit idle unless you can  have no units in range to fight with it when you run out of other units that can fight. But You do get to pick which order you fight and where models direct their attacks. So player a can attack with unit a1 against unit b1 but then you can use b2 instead of retaliation with b1 but Unless a1 is wiped out b1 will have to fight eventually.

Edited August 18, 2019 by King Taloren

[PiotrW]

Okay, so let me get this straight:

1. Charge is the only way my unit can attack enemy units - unless, for some reason, it already is the enemy unit's 3''? So, I cannot move my unit so that stands 3'' away from the enemy, skip charge and, then, declare my attack and pile in?

2. I don't get to choose which enemy models in the enemy unit I attack? And the enemy unit's formation isn't important - it's assumed that each of my models is hitting the enemy unit as a whole?

3. The range of my unit's melee weapons only determines which models from this unit can attack and nothing else?

4. If the formation of the defending unit isn't important, then there's really no point in moving the unit with models set up in a few ranks? Because it doesn't really protect them from anything?

Is this all correct?

BTW. When piling in, how close to the enemy unit do I move my models? Should it be base-to-base contact, wherever possible?

[King Taloren]

40 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

 

Okay, so let me get this straight:

1. Charge is the only way my unit can attack enemy units - unless, for some reason, it already is the enemy unit's 3''? So, I cannot move my unit so that stands 3'' away from the enemy, skip charge and, then, declare my attack and pile in?

 

 

Yes. Because you can not end any normal moves within 3” of an enemy unit. This means on the outside of the 3” line.

You cannot stop close enough that you can pile in in the combat phase without charging.

You will have to either charge, or be charged or have it close enough that his charging another of your  units allows you to be close enough to fight him. Pile in and charge moves are the only moves that you can end a movement inside  the 3” line.

the only current exception to this rule is the Khaine Sisters of Slaughter with their 6” pile in and attack special rules.

 

40 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

2. I don't get to choose which enemy models in the enemy unit I attack? And the enemy unit's formation isn't important - it's assumed that each of my models is hitting the enemy unit as a whole?

Yes. This also works in reverse as well so your super killing weapons can remain on the field until you run out of models that can die besides them. Your attacks and wounds hit the unit and then he takes the damage by choosing which models die first.

There is an importance of formation that if you somehow cause part of his unit to split apart further than 1” away from models he will have to choose which side of that split to keep and take all the rest as casualties.

 

40 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

3. The range of my unit's melee weapons only determines which models from this unit can attack and nothing else?

Yes. The range also determines which unit a model can attack if you are fighting more than one and which models will actually be able to fight.

40 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

4. If the formation of the defending unit isn't important, then there's really no point in moving the unit with models set up in a few ranks? Because it doesn't really protect them from anything?

The formation is important in trying to maximize the amount of models that can attack your enemy while minimizing the amount of models he can strike back with.  

Example: he has his unit spread out in a line. Attacking from the front will give him more models to attack with then hitting him from the side where the line is thinnest. This allows the maximum gain for lower risk.

40 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

When piling in, how close to the enemy unit do I move my models? Should it be base-to-base contact, wherever possible?

You can move as close as you want as long as you don’t move away from what is currently the closest enemy model. The general idea is the more packed in you are against the enemy unit the more models that can attack.

Edited August 19, 2019 by King Taloren

[PiotrW]

Thanks, that clarified a lot to me!

Two more questions:

1. So, each player does fight twice each round, right?

2. What is a double turn?

[flemingmma]

13 minutes ago, PiotrW said:

Thanks, that clarified a lot to me!

Two more questions:

1. So, each player does fight twice each round, right?

2. What is a double turn?

1. Yes both players fight with all available units in their turn and then their opponents

2. A double turn is when a player b wins initiative in the next after having lost initiative the first time so for example.

Player a goes first

Player b goes second

End of round one

Players roll to see who goes first this time and player b wins

Player b gets a double turn which means they can continue to implement their game plan and the other player can't really do anything outside of clever use of abilities