A Crimson Murderman, as we know, attacks 6 times with his pair of cutting swords, hitting on a 4+. He has an ability that reads:
Quote
A Crimson Murderman with a pair of cutting swords re-roll failed hit rolls.
So we make our rolls to hit: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6.
Under normal circumstances he re-rolls the 1, 2 and 3.
If he is subject to a -1 penalty to his hit rolls, his series of rolls is modified to 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. One would assume that his ability would allow him to re-roll the result of 0, 1, 2 and 3, but here there seems to be some controversy:
"You can't re-roll that dice that reads 4, because before modifiers that counts as a hit since you need a 4+ to hit, and you can only re-roll failed hit rolls! And after modifiers it counts as 3, which is a failed hit roll. Since re-rolls happen before modifiers the opportunity to re-roll has passed, so you can't re-roll."
Why is it acceptable to "look ahead" at the required to To Hit score to decide if it's a hit or fail, but skip taking into account the modifiers that are going to determine if it's a hit or a fail?
This seems a bit weird. It shouldn't even be necessary since this is done to achieve the procedural point of adhering to the re-rolls-then-modifiers sequence in the core rules, which is the only opportunity when re-rolls are available.
However, according to the Warscrolls rules for Abilities...
Quote
... Abilities take precedence over the core rules.
Why is it so important to preserve the core rule that "re-rolls happen before modifiers to the roll (if any) are applied", but we are happy to let an ability break the restriction that you cannot run and charge in the same turn?
I submit that the proper application of this ability is as follows:
Roll to hit. The Crimson Murderman rolls a 4.
Apply re-rolls. At this point, the Crimson Murderman is not entitled to any re-rolls since his rolls have not been compared to his To Hit characteristic and are not yet determined as hits or failed.
Apply modifiers. The hit roll is modified by -1 to 3.
Compare hit roll to To Hit characteristic. It is a failure.
Apply the Crimson Murderman's ability to re-roll failed hit rolls. He rolls the dice again. Since this is still a roll to hit, the modifiers are applied to the new roll. The re-roll results in a 4, modified by -1 to 3, and is compared to the To Hit characteristic and determined to be a fail.
Question
T10
A Crimson Murderman, as we know, attacks 6 times with his pair of cutting swords, hitting on a 4+. He has an ability that reads:
So we make our rolls to hit: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6.
Under normal circumstances he re-rolls the 1, 2 and 3.
If he is subject to a -1 penalty to his hit rolls, his series of rolls is modified to 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. One would assume that his ability would allow him to re-roll the result of 0, 1, 2 and 3, but here there seems to be some controversy:
"You can't re-roll that dice that reads 4, because before modifiers that counts as a hit since you need a 4+ to hit, and you can only re-roll failed hit rolls! And after modifiers it counts as 3, which is a failed hit roll. Since re-rolls happen before modifiers the opportunity to re-roll has passed, so you can't re-roll."
Why is it acceptable to "look ahead" at the required to To Hit score to decide if it's a hit or fail, but skip taking into account the modifiers that are going to determine if it's a hit or a fail?
This seems a bit weird. It shouldn't even be necessary since this is done to achieve the procedural point of adhering to the re-rolls-then-modifiers sequence in the core rules, which is the only opportunity when re-rolls are available.
However, according to the Warscrolls rules for Abilities...
Why is it so important to preserve the core rule that "re-rolls happen before modifiers to the roll (if any) are applied", but we are happy to let an ability break the restriction that you cannot run and charge in the same turn?
I submit that the proper application of this ability is as follows:
Note that the dice is still only re-rolled once.
-T10
Edited by T10Link to comment
Share on other sites
13 answers to this question
Recommended Posts