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TimM85

Tournaments: Your opinions Please, (there are no wrong answers)

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I am creating this topic just to get some feedback on what the community prefers to play in their tournaments. Primarily a bit selfish for me to gather information to put on better events for people. All opinions are welcome don't bicker  that is that individuals  preference of play

At the moment this is how we run and why.

Full realm Rules, artefacts and spells all announced before the day.

Realm spells I feel is important as it gives armies without a spell lore and armies of legend access to more spells instead of wasting points on 1 spell 1 unbind

Realms and Realm Rules For our next 3 events I have pre announced which realms are in use and which Realmscape feature. This gives players a chance to play in those realms and with that rule prior to the event,  and saves rolling something really bad on the day and also means I can pre prep Realm cards for the tables though I could keep the realm and feature a secret I find it more balanced to announce before hand.

Scenery Rules - Pre rolled for, I have moved on from printing the war scrolls for each piece (I did this and it took forever but if you haven't played with a chapel on the board its quite a cool feature) Each table gets setup and pre rolled the scenery tokens marked up before the event, in respect of objectives sometimes landing on a scenery piece I think its quite cool to fight over some damned steps or inspiring woods adds a bit of flavour to the objectives and some actually point to it. 2 Armies fighting for the high ground or some mystical terrain to further their position in a war. This leaves more time for gaming, and brews.

Fully Painted Armies 

I'm a stickler for this, yes i play with unpainted models while choosing my army selection, but when I started out in the hobby we had to show decent progress every week to be allowed to play a good 17 years ago. Its a good habit. For tournaments I think every army should be fully painted and based it doesn't have to be amazing or even good I'm a terrible painter but it shows investment into the hobby, it looks better and helps with immersion into the game, if someone paid to be at that tournament and has taken the time to paint and base their army shouldn't you show the same respect. If someone has taken the time to build paint base their army theres a better chance that they know their rules as they are invested in it with time and effort resulting in a better caliber of player. It Stops Glory Hunting, it stops people just buying the best net list they can find playing it a week later.

 

Scoring

All scores swiss chess, all results submitted bad dice and ITC (though I Still have to send the last ones off)

All opinions are welcome and there are no wrong answers these are my thoughts and I want to create the best possible tourneys for the players that come though the next 3 rules are set I will take your thoughts into consideration when writing the next lot.

Opinions are like Arseholes everyone has one so get commenting.

 

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This sounds about right.

I would require the players to send in their armies in advance, and maybe allow for swapping allies (or same points in own units) between battles, to signify taking different allies in different realms.

If it's possible, have players play in realms that differ on the mechanical point, so for instance Aqshi, then Ulgu, then Ghur or Hyish, Ghyran and Chamon if they play three rounds. This means versatile armies will be better equipped to deal with the different environments than specialist ones.

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Realm spells - yes, if Realm rules are being used

Realm rules - yes, with anounced realms and maybe predetermend realmspace features

Scenery - never played with pre-rolled rules, it's usually have been rolled by players or not used, but I like the idea

Armies and Scoring - as per GHB 2019, I played with those rules and for me it feels great and only way to play at tournaments.

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For any other type of event excluding Beginner's Days it absolutely has to be fully painted armies

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Posted (edited)

I know this is home-brew heresy and not really what you were asking for so obviously feel free to ignore with prejudice but the fact that you pre-set up scenery and pre-roll for their features does bring up something I've been tempted to try and that's scenery tokens are only flipped over and revealed the first time a unit goes within 6" of it (maybe more for a Wizard if you wanted to be extra-fluffy). Just to add a little frisson of fear and doubt to tactical manoeuvres.

Apart from that, in my not exactly Tournament focused opinion, it all looks good. I like the Realm Rules but totally get why people don't like some. I think careful selection can bring them in without resulting in too many toys being thrown out of prams. 

One thing I would be interested in seeing tournaments do is mix up the formats a bit, so over the course of the whole thing you play a mix of 2000pts and 1000pts ME games (in a perfect world with all options available I'd throw in a Warcry round too but obviously not yet). It would help with fitting in all the games and less mentally taxing perhaps to play something a bit lighter at the end of the day.

I'm sure this would go down like a bucket of cold sick with a lot of players but if you had to build your armies for all formats from the same pool of units it would add an extra element to putting together a list and hopefully encourage slightly more diverse, or at least less brutally optimised, lists.

Edited by JPjr

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I like that as a idea for a narrative event, or smaller 18 player but in a larger event checking 3 army lists maybe to much though. I will definitely consider it and I now have an idea of how it may work.

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8 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

This sounds about right.

I would require the players to send in their armies in advance, and maybe allow for swapping allies (or same points in own units) between battles, to signify taking different allies in different realms.

If it's possible, have players play in realms that differ on the mechanical point, so for instance Aqshi, then Ulgu, then Ghur or Hyish, Ghyran and Chamon if they play three rounds. This means versatile armies will be better equipped to deal with the different environments than specialist ones.

I like that as a idea for a narrative event, or smaller 18 player but in a larger event checking 3 army lists maybe to much though. I will definitely consider it and I now have an idea of how it may work.

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4 minutes ago, JPjr said:

I know this is home-brew heresy and not really what you were asking for so obviously feel free to ignore with prejudice but the fact that you pre-set up scenery and pre-roll for their features does bring up something I've been tempted to try and that's scenery tokens are only flipped over and revealed the first time a unit goes within 6" of it (maybe more for a Wizard if you wanted to be extra-fluffy). Just to add a little frisson of fear and doubt to tactical manoeuvres.

Apart from that, in my not exactly Tournament focused opinion, it all looks good. I like the Realm Rules but totally get why people don't like some. I think careful selection can bring them in without resulting in too many toys being thrown out of prams. 

One thing I would be interested in seeing tournaments do is mix up the formats a bit, so over the course of the whole thing you play a mix of 2000pts and 1000pts ME games (in a perfect world with all options available I'd throw in a Warcry round too but obviously not yet). It would help with fitting in all the games and less mentally taxing perhaps to play something a bit lighter at the end of the day.

I'm sure this would go down like a bucket of cold sick with a lot of players but if you had to build your armies for all formats from the same pool of units it would add an extra element to putting together a list and hopefully encourage slightly more diverse, or at least less brutally optimised, lists.

I really like it as an idea running it either way starting with a meeting engagement, then a 1500 finish with a 2000 showing the general building his followers or your way showing the forces diminishing. Scenery is cool idea to.

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8 minutes ago, TimM85 said:

I really like it as an idea running it either way starting with a meeting engagement, then a 1500 finish with a 2000 showing the general building his followers or your way showing the forces diminishing. Scenery is cool idea to.

Oh yeah, different points values for different rounds would be very interesting to see different playstyles as well!

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Just my thoughts

We don't use realm rules but I wouldn't mind them as long as they're announced in advanced and the ones used don't ****** over certain armies.

We used to have it where an army could pick which realm its from and then take realm spells in lieu of allegiance spells (if they had them) on their wizards. We've been moving away from this due to everyone taking inferno blades all the time though.

Scenery rules-we don't use them beyond basic cover, los stuff but I wish we did. I like the idea of having a couple of pieces of special terrain that is put on the boards by TOs. From playing regular games I think rolling for the all terrain makes the board too busy for my liking and most of the special rules won't actually matter due to some combination of the terrain special rule, terrain placement, size, objectives, ect.

We don't have painting requirements for regular tournaments (3 games, 1 day) but have a 3 base minimum for grand tournaments (5 games, 2 days). Personally, I don't like painting rules. I'm an avid painter and hobbyist myself but I understand that people play the game for different reasons. A tournament is ultimately about deciding who the best player is tactically (well, to be honest the army picked and luck are huge factors but you get the idea). I think painting requirements can also hamper newer or more casual players if they find out their chosen army is extremely weak competively as it creates a major barrier to switching armies which might just motivate less invested players to quit.

Side note on painting stuff. I like prize support for hobby stuff like best painted, best display board ect. but as an enthusiastic hobbyist of middling skill it is incredibly frustrating to have to compete against commissioned armies. Its demoralizing losing to a guy who doesn't know which end of a brush to hold but just dumped buckets of money on a pro-painted army. 

 

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If you are using realm artefacts then you should really be using the other elements of the realms imo.

Realmscape features are very janky and potentially game breaking. If these are used then the TO should choose them rather than random roll.

Realm commands and spells equally need a small amount of self policing, as certain ones clearly make very good armies even better.

I'm running a one day event at the end of August, so will use what I'm doing for that as an example of what I want to see at comps.

I'm of the opinion  that players should be made aware that realms are being used, but not told in advance. I've let players for my tournament know that realms will be used, but that the effects, commands and spells of the realms will be a limited and specially chosen selection. I've not announced what they are, but on the day of the comp, each player will be given a cheat sheet which has all of the relevant information on them for all of the potential realms that may be used. There are 3 games for the day and 4 potential realms to choose from, so that even by game 3 players won't know for certain which realm will be played.

I have also let players know that the missions for that day will be chosen from the GHB19 only, but haven't announced in advance which ones, these will be announced at the start of each battle. I have carefully chosen the missions, making sure that they offer the best chance for games to go the full 5 turns and prevent auto-wins taking place by turn 1 or 2. 

I think if too much information is announced ahead of time, it allows players to create a specially tailored list to suit those particular circumstances. Whereas, if you let them know that certain effects and abilities will be taking place, but keep it secret, it forces players to make lists that are more well rounded to deal with any situation, which in turn creates a more interesting playing field for the players taking part.

Scenery rules should always be used and should be rolled by the players at the start of the game. I am providing players with scenery tokens and dice to use (and keep) for the event to help make this more seemless whilst in the set up stages of the games. 

I've also allowed for 15mins of extra time at the start of each game, so that players can introduce themselves, chat over the armies, set up the scenery rules and do their deployment. If they finish this set up early, then they are free to start the games early. But I don't want players that may require longer for setting up due to the nature of their army, to be penalised with the amount of time they have for the actual game itself. Equally I don't want players with more elite armies to feel that it was down to their opponent taking too long to set everything up, that meant they could finish their game, etc...

For weekend tournaments painting should be mandatory, but for one day events, a more relaxed approach should be used imo. In the event I'm doing there are prizes for painting but it doesn't effect the tournament scores, as it offers an automatic advantage to some players before the event has even begun. Also for one day event, some players want to try out a new list or combo without fully committing to getting everything fully painted and based.

I'm including the use of secondaries but not the ones from the GHB19, the ones I include will be separate sub-missions, rather than 'you are already winning, so win some more' which is what most of the hidden agendas are unfortunately. The secondaries for my comp are going to be just as valuable in terms of tournament points as the main missions from GHB19, so that it allows armies that may struggle under normal conditions to have a fighting chance at scoring points. It's a lot of extra work as a TO to organise, but ultimately should lead to a more varied list in the final results, rather than the usual suspects taking the top positions. Of the secondaries that I'm using, 3 are secret and 3 are not. You can only use one per game, and you can't use the same one twice in the tournament. The non-secret missions will offer points to both players, depending on whether it is achieved or denied. Some of the secondaries are super easy and are lower scoring, others are difficult and offer lots of points. I'll be providing sheets with all 6 secondaries on for all the players, so if your opponent chooses a secret mission, you have a 1 in 3 chance of guessing what it might be and can attempt to thwart it happening. 
Ultimately, the main thing that will be taking place is active judging. So I will be on hand (with all the rule books and access to FAQs, etc...) to make sure that any issues can be addressed in a timely manner. I will be going around all of the tables as each round progresses and making sure that the players are happy with how everything is going (obviously poor dice results can't be helped 😂.) But I think it's important that whoever is the TO is making an effort to either get an active judge on board or is doing it themselves, as it helps players to feel confident that they can get any issues addressed.

Lastly, I have included in the rules pack a mini code of conduct, because it's important that players not only respect each other, but if your opponent is about to make a grievous error of judgement with their decisions because they don't know what your army can do, it's expected that you gentle remind them that they might want to reconsider the certain death that they are about to put themselves in, because ultimately it leads to a better play experience for  both players, rather than someone winning with a pure gotcha moment or due to your opponent being much less versed in the mechanics of your own army.

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Posted (edited)

@Tropical Ghost General 99.9% of that sounds great, though, personally, I'd have some minor concerns with some of the points in your final paragraph.

I think having a CoC reveals a depressing state of affairs BUT sadly it seems like it's probably needed even if just to set the tone, so no issues there.

But I'd be less sure though about being expected to 'gently remind' a player that he's might be putting himself in a bad situation.

In friendly games, of course if that's what you both decide (I can imagine some people not appreciating armchair quarterbacking, especially from their opponent, no matter how well intentioned). But in a tournament? 

Telling someone what your units can do if they ask is one thing, but actively warning them off? I mean if the point of a unit is that they can do this particular thing and you're advising your opponent  how to avoid them doing it then you're potentially making that unit worthless and actively making life harder for yourself.

I can see how it might be perceived as a 'Gotcha' moment, but the alternative way of looking at it is that this is a war game between (in theory) two evenly matched sides so ultimately winning should be about your strategy and tactics in game (and lucky dice rolls). Playing so as to (legally) trick your opponent into doing something which you can take advantage of is surely the point?

As I said nearly everything else sounds grand, that one point just strikes me as something that could end up annoying more people than not if it's presented as an explicit way you're supposed to behave.

Edited by JPjr

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@JPjr it was included in the pack more as a way to gentle remind players to be nice. I'm not expecting people to coach their opponent on how to beat them, but it's stuff like in the deployment stage, if you place a unit within auto-charge range of a monster that you didn't know could charge 32" in a turn, etc...

Below is the word for word text on the CoC from the pack, aiming to make sure that players are as fair as they wish to be. Being given a detailed explanation at the very beginning of the game about what your opponent's army does, normally leads to the information going in one ear and straight out the other. So if players want to gentle remind their opponent, for example that their witches have a 6" pile in, then that creates a better play experience all round. It's only those top level tournament players that retain all of the info from all of the armies and even they struggle with it at times, so a gentle reminder is not a bad thing imo.

 

While Age of Sigmar is the most important thing in life, it’s also worth noting that nobody likes to have a negative play experience. So make sure that you are friendly with your opponent. There will be an active judge for this event, who will be on hand to make any final decisions should players be unable to come to an agreement amongst themselves, so please feel free to call upon the TO at any time that you feel you require their help or assistance.

In the spirit of the game we advise all players to be open and honest when explaining about your army to your opponent, and to make sure that this happens before the deployment stage of when a game is due to begin. While it is not complusory, if it looks as if your opponent is going to make a fundamental error during the deployment stage that will lead to an auto-lose type situation, we advise that you inform them of the potential error as soon as possible, so that both players can have a fair game.

And while it’s important to make sure that you D.B.A.D. whenever possible, please don’t refrain from doing victory dances, general wooping and cheering or other forms of expression should you and your dice manage to pull off an amazing feat of awesomeness that warrants a celebration.

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4 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

If you are using realm artefacts then you should really be using the other elements of the realms imo.

Realmscape features are very janky and potentially game breaking. If these are used then the TO should choose them rather than random roll.

Realm commands and spells equally need a small amount of self policing, as certain ones clearly make very good armies even better.

I'm running a one day event at the end of August, so will use what I'm doing for that as an example of what I want to see at comps.

I'm of the opinion  that players should be made aware that realms are being used, but not told in advance. I've let players for my tournament know that realms will be used, but that the effects, commands and spells of the realms will be a limited and specially chosen selection. I've not announced what they are, but on the day of the comp, each player will be given a cheat sheet which has all of the relevant information on them for all of the potential realms that may be used. There are 3 games for the day and 4 potential realms to choose from, so that even by game 3 players won't know for certain which realm will be played.

I have also let players know that the missions for that day will be chosen from the GHB19 only, but haven't announced in advance which ones, these will be announced at the start of each battle. I have carefully chosen the missions, making sure that they offer the best chance for games to go the full 5 turns and prevent auto-wins taking place by turn 1 or 2. 

I think if too much information is announced ahead of time, it allows players to create a specially tailored list to suit those particular circumstances. Whereas, if you let them know that certain effects and abilities will be taking place, but keep it secret, it forces players to make lists that are more well rounded to deal with any situation, which in turn creates a more interesting playing field for the players taking part.

Scenery rules should always be used and should be rolled by the players at the start of the game. I am providing players with scenery tokens and dice to use (and keep) for the event to help make this more seemless whilst in the set up stages of the games. 

I've also allowed for 15mins of extra time at the start of each game, so that players can introduce themselves, chat over the armies, set up the scenery rules and do their deployment. If they finish this set up early, then they are free to start the games early. But I don't want players that may require longer for setting up due to the nature of their army, to be penalised with the amount of time they have for the actual game itself. Equally I don't want players with more elite armies to feel that it was down to their opponent taking too long to set everything up, that meant they could finish their game, etc...

For weekend tournaments painting should be mandatory, but for one day events, a more relaxed approach should be used imo. In the event I'm doing there are prizes for painting but it doesn't effect the tournament scores, as it offers an automatic advantage to some players before the event has even begun. Also for one day event, some players want to try out a new list or combo without fully committing to getting everything fully painted and based.

I'm including the use of secondaries but not the ones from the GHB19, the ones I include will be separate sub-missions, rather than 'you are already winning, so win some more' which is what most of the hidden agendas are unfortunately. The secondaries for my comp are going to be just as valuable in terms of tournament points as the main missions from GHB19, so that it allows armies that may struggle under normal conditions to have a fighting chance at scoring points. It's a lot of extra work as a TO to organise, but ultimately should lead to a more varied list in the final results, rather than the usual suspects taking the top positions. Of the secondaries that I'm using, 3 are secret and 3 are not. You can only use one per game, and you can't use the same one twice in the tournament. The non-secret missions will offer points to both players, depending on whether it is achieved or denied. Some of the secondaries are super easy and are lower scoring, others are difficult and offer lots of points. I'll be providing sheets with all 6 secondaries on for all the players, so if your opponent chooses a secret mission, you have a 1 in 3 chance of guessing what it might be and can attempt to thwart it happening. 
Ultimately, the main thing that will be taking place is active judging. So I will be on hand (with all the rule books and access to FAQs, etc...) to make sure that any issues can be addressed in a timely manner. I will be going around all of the tables as each round progresses and making sure that the players are happy with how everything is going (obviously poor dice results can't be helped 😂.) But I think it's important that whoever is the TO is making an effort to either get an active judge on board or is doing it themselves, as it helps players to feel confident that they can get any issues addressed.

Lastly, I have included in the rules pack a mini code of conduct, because it's important that players not only respect each other, but if your opponent is about to make a grievous error of judgement with their decisions because they don't know what your army can do, it's expected that you gentle remind them that they might want to reconsider the certain death that they are about to put themselves in, because ultimately it leads to a better play experience for  both players, rather than someone winning with a pure gotcha moment or due to your opponent being much less versed in the mechanics of your own army.

 

4 hours ago, JPjr said:

@Tropical Ghost General 99.9% of that sounds great, though, personally, I'd have some minor concerns with some of the points in your final paragraph.

I think having a CoC reveals a depressing state of affairs BUT sadly it seems like it's probably needed even if just to set the tone, so no issues there.

But I'd be less sure though about being expected to 'gently remind' a player that he's might be putting himself in a bad situation.

In friendly games, of course if that's what you both decide (I can imagine some people not appreciating armchair quarterbacking, especially from their opponent, no matter how well intentioned). But in a tournament? 

Telling someone what your units can do if they ask is one thing, but actively warning them off? I mean if the point of a unit is that they can do this particular thing and you're advising your opponent  how to avoid them doing it then you're potentially making that unit worthless and actively making life harder for yourself.

I can see how it might be perceived as a 'Gotcha' moment, but the alternative way of looking at it is that this is a war game between (in theory) two evenly matched sides so ultimately winning should be about your strategy and tactics in game (and lucky dice rolls). Playing so as to (legally) trick your opponent into doing something which you can take advantage of is surely the point?

As I said nearly everything else sounds grand, that one point just strikes me as something that could end up annoying more people than not if it's presented as an explicit way you're supposed to behave.

 

3 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

@JPjr it was included in the pack more as a way to gentle remind players to be nice. I'm not expecting people to coach their opponent on how to beat them, but it's stuff like in the deployment stage, if you place a unit within auto-charge range of a monster that you didn't know could charge 32" in a turn, etc...

Below is the word for word text on the CoC from the pack, aiming to make sure that players are as fair as they wish to be. Being given a detailed explanation at the very beginning of the game about what your opponent's army does, normally leads to the information going in one ear and straight out the other. So if players want to gentle remind their opponent, for example that their witches have a 6" pile in, then that creates a better play experience all round. It's only those top level tournament players that retain all of the info from all of the armies and even they struggle with it at times, so a gentle reminder is not a bad thing imo.

 

While Age of Sigmar is the most important thing in life, it’s also worth noting that nobody likes to have a negative play experience. So make sure that you are friendly with your opponent. There will be an active judge for this event, who will be on hand to make any final decisions should players be unable to come to an agreement amongst themselves, so please feel free to call upon the TO at any time that you feel you require their help or assistance.

In the spirit of the game we advise all players to be open and honest when explaining about your army to your opponent, and to make sure that this happens before the deployment stage of when a game is due to begin. While it is not complusory, if it looks as if your opponent is going to make a fundamental error during the deployment stage that will lead to an auto-lose type situation, we advise that you inform them of the potential error as soon as possible, so that both players can have a fair game.

And while it’s important to make sure that you D.B.A.D. whenever possible, please don’t refrain from doing victory dances, general wooping and cheering or other forms of expression should you and your dice manage to pull off an amazing feat of awesomeness that warrants a celebration.

Good stuff here guys I really like it.

I do agree a little or maybe say sympathise with gentle reminder, imagine a casual coming up against beast claw leaving no screen because they would have a turn to get in position, and then getting auto smashed. But I also sympathise with the opposite I think it should all be discussed when talking about your armies before the game. Though in my last AOS tourney I did remind my opponent of my ability to be active to fight when within 6inch when he started piling in to close. I was given reminders at my first big tourney by a beast claw player who won best destruction and this was on day 2 so he knew he was playing for it, same tourney I got auto turn1 smashed by a exalted keeper.  I think players should be open and honest when discussing their armies at the start then if your like me and your not super serious letting your opponent know if they are going to make an auto lose decision especially if you will mostly like win anyway is just a nice gesture, once your mid table (even if your towards the top its all about fun especially smaller events.

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6 hours ago, Forrix said:

Just my thoughts

We don't use realm rules but I wouldn't mind them as long as they're announced in advanced and the ones used don't ****** over certain armies.

We used to have it where an army could pick which realm its from and then take realm spells in lieu of allegiance spells (if they had them) on their wizards. We've been moving away from this due to everyone taking inferno blades all the time though.

Scenery rules-we don't use them beyond basic cover, los stuff but I wish we did. I like the idea of having a couple of pieces of special terrain that is put on the boards by TOs. From playing regular games I think rolling for the all terrain makes the board too busy for my liking and most of the special rules won't actually matter due to some combination of the terrain special rule, terrain placement, size, objectives, ect.

We don't have painting requirements for regular tournaments (3 games, 1 day) but have a 3 base minimum for grand tournaments (5 games, 2 days). Personally, I don't like painting rules. I'm an avid painter and hobbyist myself but I understand that people play the game for different reasons. A tournament is ultimately about deciding who the best player is tactically (well, to be honest the army picked and luck are huge factors but you get the idea). I think painting requirements can also hamper newer or more casual players if they find out their chosen army is extremely weak competively as it creates a major barrier to switching armies which might just motivate less invested players to quit.

Side note on painting stuff. I like prize support for hobby stuff like best painted, best display board ect. but as an enthusiastic hobbyist of middling skill it is incredibly frustrating to have to compete against commissioned armies. Its demoralizing losing to a guy who doesn't know which end of a brush to hold but just dumped buckets of money on a pro-painted army. 

 

Painting awards don't go to commissioned painted models or armies or at very least they shouldn't it should never happen, I would much rather lose a game to someone who has an amazing looking pro painted army as I get that painting isn't for everyone, (warning heresy coming) in fact just painted and based any standard is cool it shows effort all my models are tabletop standard some if spent more time on some I haven't, I'm not a natural painter, Im not patient and have at times picked poor colour choice but I get it done because I enjoy playing with a painted army. I paint to play I find the game so much more fun and immersive when everyone has a painted army (personal preference), facing a plastic gray tide of the latest meta killer would just be ****** for all involved and I believe would be bad for the community bad for the game and I believe could be quite toxic I have no problems with it in casual games and fun games because we want to choose what we we want to paint for tourneys or our armies. 

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Well I really like the idea you have @TimM85, although there one thing I would maybe change.

Painted minis look awesome on the table, still there are people around the world who would love to participate on a event or tournament, but cant because their minis aren't painted, and without enough time, because somebody is studying is brains out or most of his free times gets spend in work this be something that is a far wish.

So what would be cool is to allow those people with unpainted minis to the event and those who painted theirs get some extra bonuses like, some bonus starting points, that helps them when the ranking of the players gets announced.

 

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4 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Well I really like the idea you have @TimM85, although there one thing I would maybe change.

Painted minis look awesome on the table, still there are people around the world who would love to participate on a event or tournament, but cant because their minis aren't painted, and without enough time, because somebody is studying is brains out or most of his free times gets spend in work this be something that is a far wish.

So what would be cool is to allow those people with unpainted minis to the event and those who painted theirs get some extra bonuses like, some bonus starting points, that helps them when the ranking of the players gets announced.

 

Ahh skaven I see, nah only joking, hard for me to sympathise with this as I run my own business, early to late, and still get it done, but theres lots of easy ways to do stuff especially with the new contrast, lets take a block of 40 clan rats, Spray Brown, then stand above them spray black lightly and slightly further away, apply agar earth shade, metallic silver or bronze on the tip of each weapon, texture paint the base, black or brown the rim. 3 colour minimum met even got a shade with light highlight look, and also if you choose you can go back at any point and keep painting the models as they only have base colours on them.

Though scoring someone lower for unpainted could be done at more relaxed events I don't know how many you would get if they knew they had no chance of winning.

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6 minutes ago, TimM85 said:

Ahh skaven I see, nah only joking, hard for me to sympathise with this as I run my own business, early to late, and still get it done, but theres lots of easy ways to do stuff especially with the new contrast, lets take a block of 40 clan rats, Spray Brown, then stand above them spray black lightly and slightly further away, apply agar earth shade, metallic silver or bronze on the tip of each weapon, texture paint the base, black or brown the rim. 3 colour minimum met even got a shade with light highlight look, and also if you choose you can go back at any point and keep painting the models as they only have base colours on them.

Though scoring someone lower for unpainted could be done at more relaxed events I don't know how many you would get if they knew they had no chance of winning.

Thanks for the tipp, although I already have a way of painting clanrats (4min. per model)

My army is also already finished, and tournament ready.

and the idea was well meant for all players, doesn't matter what armies they play (there are more then just a few people who have well problem with painting in total.

one might not have the time, and others dislike painting, but would love to participate on some events)

Now Im not saying that you have to take the road I have written about, but it is more like an idea that can literally be called rubbish (if you want to do so) and ignored

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My local community uses realm rules and spells. We also take 10 min to explain our units to the adversary.

We are very chill about unpainted armies, and that is great, because i can play on then!

I love painting,  is my favorite part of the hobby but i am incredibly slow. If i had to have it fully painted i would never get to play.

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Realmscape Features: Random, so people with highly specialized lists are in danger to fall victim to a nerfing realmrule (Realm of shadow for shooting armies). - enforces people to build balanced lists.

characters: No named characters. The reason being is that the event is mostly semi narrative, having 3 Nagashs, 4 Morathis and 12 Arkhans makes no sense, besides: it let‘s people build lists they wouldn‘t usually field.

terrain rules: one D6 for each table, predefined. Tbh too many special terrain rules make no sense and slow down the games.

fully painted armies: is no must.

scoring: some scenarios might be adapted to fit the theme.

 

apart from that our next tournament will feature 3 games:

1. meeting engagements

2. 1250 pts Game that Must include all models and units of The Meeting Engagement army

3. 1850 Points that must include all models and units of the 1250pts game.

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9 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said:

Thanks for the tipp, although I already have a way of painting clanrats (4min. per model)

My army is also already finished, and tournament ready.

and the idea was well meant for all players, doesn't matter what armies they play (there are more then just a few people who have well problem with painting in total.

one might not have the time, and others dislike painting, but would love to participate on some events)

Now Im not saying that you have to take the road I have written about, but it is more like an idea that can literally be called rubbish (if you want to do so) and ignored

It's all good  stuff, to take into consideration, maybe run some relaxed events without painting requirements and other events with them.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Thiagoma said:

My local community uses realm rules and spells. We also take 10 min to explain our units to the adversary.

We are very chill about unpainted armies, and that is great, because i can play on then!

I love painting,  is my favorite part of the hobby but i am incredibly slow. If i had to have it fully painted i would never get to play.

Fully painted painted in most respects is usually, just some base colours and textured paint on the bases, so that in the future you can keep painting, a couple of different base layers (3) is the usual min, I think many mis understand this part of the rule.

Obviously we all want more but for avid painter it might take a long time to be satisfied, in our last tourney one of the players is an amazing painter but so slow he might finish in 2099 I think to his standard he had only finished his blood reavers 140 and a wrath axe 60pts out of 1500 points, but what he did was the base layer of each mach component so that when he picks the up again to paint he can just crack on. And based all his models

 

Edited by TimM85

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Posted (edited)

No to Realm rules/spells/realmscape features (yes to realm artifacts) 

No to terrain warscrolls/scenary rules.

Why I hear you cry? Because even when they are in use at a tournament 80% of players ignore them or forget them, those that don't are the ones playing an army that benefits massively from them (e.g. Nagash and realm spells). 

Personally I'm ok with that, there's plenty enough rules to remember that apply to every game without extra bloat that only applies to 1/7 games

As for painting my feeling is fully painted for 2 day event, unpainted is fine for 1 dayers as they are an excellent way to get unsure people into that side of things.

Edited by Karragon

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Variety is key, so every suggestion here for an event.  If they all use they same rules/packs life becomes dull.  Mix and match throughoput the year.

Personal pref.

Realms yes, scape chosen by TO beforehand, spells 1 selected by To (Just as it saves time and is easy to remember)

Terrain/warscrolls use if they are present

Scoring, swiss, secondaries then Fav game/KP third tiebreak.

Properly painted (3 colours allows for some real borderline armies), everyone knows what properly painted means, if in doubt check with the TO

 

 

 

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Really good guidelines, but 2c on painting: IMO it should never be a requirement for matched play tournaments in particular. It's just another barrier to entry. Yes there are cheap and fast ways to get your stuff done, but a lot of people won't want to rattlecan their expensive models just so they can see how they do in a tourney. The more inclusive your events are, the healthier your scene will be. You can use the painting as a tiebreaker, like the GHB suggests.

If it were a narrative event (those do in fact exist) then by all means, impose the painting rule. In the case of the narrative event, immersion is paramount. The painting does actually add some very important flavour to the experience.

 

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