Court of Nulahmia list help

[ZLee Syn]

Hello. I need some help with this list. Here is what I have now:

Legion of Blood

Neferata (overwhelming dread, general)

Vampire Lord on Zombie dragon (ethereal amulet, transference)

Vampire lord on Zombie dragon (orb of enchantment, pinions)

Bloodseeker palanquin (transference)

Court of Nulahmia

5 dire wolfs

5 dire wolfs

10 zombies

Palisade

Malevolent maelstrom 

1CP.

 

I am sure that I want to play 2 dragons. If I played only one and added one big block of infantry then Neferata woukd be more important target (ressing would be more powerful) and court wouldnt provide as huge advantage. I feel that it would be better to drop court at that point and play zombie dragon (still -1 to hit with trait) and Vhordrai. 

I am not sure about the artefacts. I feel that ethereal amulet is almost always worth it but there is an option to go with shadow and always strike first cloak. Also I am not sure if I should run 2+ dispel or having no atacks from powerful hero. Also I can take imunity to shooting. This woukd help especialy if I dont get first turn.

Spells are basicaly set. 2*transference is needed in case I lose one. 

I think I need to keep 3rd command point to have an option to get rerolls to hit on both dragons in first turn and still keep neferatas command ability active.

The biggest question are probably battlelines and endless spells. I thought about running 3 units of wolfs but I decided that I want at least one small infantry to get better screen against alfa strike armies. If I go first I can always hide them in the grave and pull them out on point. Palisade is there to against shooting and also to block movement to buy some times for dragons. MM is there mainly because I had 10 points left but one spell less against spell heavy armies can be helpful.

There are some options. Chainrasps shoould be better then zombies but I then need to lose palisade. Alternatively I can drop wolfs to take even more chainrasps. That would help with objectives and they can restrict movements more but they will be slower. 

There might be more options that I missed. Thanks for your tips and suggestions and sorry for any mistakes.

[ZLee Syn]

I have decided to go with this

Neferata (od, general)

Dragon (pinions, ethereal amulet)

Dragon (pinions, orb of enchantment)

Bloodseeker (transference)

5 Wolfs

5 wolfs

10 chainrasp

Gravetide

Cp

Court of nulahmia

 

If i encounter problems with scoreing, i will drop gravetide, 1 wolfs and cp for zombies and 20 chainrasp instead of 10. If you have tips and tricks I am all ears. Thanks for help

 

 

[Evil Bob]

Well a unit of 10x Chainrasps is certainly better than 10x zombies.

[ZLee Syn]

Obviously But here points are so limited that every point counts

[Goddin]

This is the list I used to win 2nd overall at the Games Workshop North America GT this past weekend: 

Legion of Blood

Neferata (overwhelming dread, general)

Vampire Lord on Zombie dragon (ethereal amulet, transference)

Vampire lord on Zombie dragon (orb of enchantment, pinions)

Bloodseeker palanquin (amethyst orb)

Court of Nulahmia

10 Chainrasps

10 Chainrasps

10 Chainrasps

1CP.

 

No need for the endless spells, you have strong spells at your disposal both from your book and warscrolls.  Cast Dark Mist, Vile Transference, and Overwhelming Dread means only 2 spells rotate on a given turn, and Mystic Shield should be one on an ethereal dragon.  So only 1 cast changes per turn - no need for the endless spells.  Looking back I would drop pinions for Spirit Gale, as I never cast pinions after the first turn.  We had realm spells so I would use those or try for the -1 to hit from Spirit Gale.

Chainrasps at 5 up ignoring rend with deathless minions and Neferata backing them up with -2 to hit are really decent screens.

[AHexInScarletRed]

15 hours ago, Goddin said:

This is the list I used to win 2nd overall at the Games Workshop North America GT this past weekend: 

Legion of Blood

Neferata (overwhelming dread, general)

Vampire Lord on Zombie dragon (ethereal amulet, transference)

Vampire lord on Zombie dragon (orb of enchantment, pinions)

Bloodseeker palanquin (amethyst orb)

Court of Nulahmia

10 Chainrasps

10 Chainrasps

10 Chainrasps

1CP.

 

No need for the endless spells, you have strong spells at your disposal both from your book and warscrolls.  Cast Dark Mist, Vile Transference, and Overwhelming Dread means only 2 spells rotate on a given turn, and Mystic Shield should be one on an ethereal dragon.  So only 1 cast changes per turn - no need for the endless spells.  Looking back I would drop pinions for Spirit Gale, as I never cast pinions after the first turn.  We had realm spells so I would use those or try for the -1 to hit from Spirit Gale.

Chainrasps at 5 up ignoring rend with deathless minions and Neferata backing them up with -2 to hit are really decent screens.

Congrats! Awesome list, awesome performance. 

I'd have planned this: 

Neferata, Overwhelming Dread 

VLoZD, Transference, Ethereal Amulet 

Vordhrai, Amethyst Orb

5x Wolves 

5x Wolves 

5x Wolves 

30x Grimghasts 

1 extra Command Point

Comes down to 1.980, would you go for 2x 10 Chainrasps instead of 2 units of Wolves? 

Alternatively, I'd like to run this: 

Neferata, Overwhelming Dread 

VLoZD, Ethereal Amulet, Transference 

Necro, Vigor 

5x Wolves 

5x Wolves 

5x Wolves 

10x Blood Knights 

20x Grimghasts 

Cogs 

Comes down to 1.960 - Rasps instead of Wolves? Or off with the Necro and 30 Rasps instead of one unit of Wolves? 

Or, number 3: 

Neferata, Overwhelming Dread 

VLoZD, Ethereal Amulet, Transference 

Coven Throne, Orb

5x Wolves 

5x Wolves 

5x Wolves 

10x Blood Knights 

10x Bladegheists

Cogs 

Extra CP 

2k straight - which one; and changes? 

Thanks! 

Edited August 14, 2019 by AHexInScarletRed
Whoops, thought I was in the LoB thread.

[Goddin]

So the first thing you need to understand is where the strength of Legion of Blood lists comes from.

1) Stacking negative to hit modifiers;

2) Speed - particularly on heroes;

3) Tough units that don't degrade much on offence and take a long time to kill.

So your objectives when list building need to be: 

1) to get big, tough heroes on objectives before your opponent can get there;

2) maximize CPs to keep up at least -2 to hit from Neferata;

3) get bodies for objectives;

4) use the bonuses of LoB particularly Favored Retainers (Bloodknights, VLs and VLoZD). 

So to start, you need to build your list aiming for 1950 and a CP.  None of your lists have a battalion, so you are already starting from a disadvantage.  My list excels because all of Battle Round 1 and 2 (and maybe part of Battle Round 3) my opponents are -2 to hit or more, because I can use Neferata's command ability twice in each hero phase until I run low on CPs in Battle Round 3 and it drops to -1.

I don't think the Coven Throne is a good model generally, so I'd lose it.  The necromancer can't keep up in speed generally, so I'm not his fan either.  Wolves are good (I ran them until the new GHB) but they aren't as many models for taking objectives.  I love bloodknights and they get a big boost under LoB but they have 3 problems - they don't regenerate, they die fairly easy with their stupid shield mechanic, and you lose a lot of damage output as each knight dies.  Compare them to a VLoZD that doesn't really lose substantial damage until several wound brackets in, and which you can heal up with chalice, transference, and killing models.  Cogs is good but not great as you want the spell casts for other things and because generally you are already fast.

Based on what I've said above, your first list looks the best except that I would switch chainrasps in for dogs where you can.

IF YOU DON'T WANT TO USE THE BATTALION I would suggest the following for some real fun:

Neferata

VLOZD x 3

10 Chainrasps x3

Extra CP.

Again, take advantage of your big, tough heroes by having 4.  Make sure you buy the CP for extra negative to hit bonuses. Get units of 10 for bodies on objectives.  Take advantage of Favored Retainers.  This simple list does all of these things. 

I believe that the battalion however, is worth it for the extra artefact and CP, because the -2 to hit is so strong.  It's worth downgrading a VLoZD to a Bloodseeker Palanquin in my opinion, and I do like the speed boost turn 1 to get my big guys EXACTLY where I want on the objectives, or to the side of the opponent formation to pin their units they string out.

 

[ZLee Syn]

Some great adivice. I totaly forgot that you can doubleuse neferatas comnand ability

[AHexInScarletRed]

6 hours ago, Goddin said:

snip

Thank you a ton for the great advice! So much tactical insight - wow. I didn't know that you can stack Neferata's Command Ability - and the units of 10 Chainrasps are new for me, too. Super keen on trying this out. 

I've mostly been playing around with getting as much Ethereal into this as possible (since I didn't know about stacking the CA), either with the Amulet, Neferata's spell or NH units - the list with Vordhrai is based on making him Ethereal, too, but it needs to many CPs between Neferata and Vordhrai. 

If you'd try to fit Blood Knights into this (fluff purposes, games between tournaments), you'd just scrap one of the VLoZDs in the list without the Batallion you posted, no? 

Cogs I basically only had for the Blood Knights' Charge. 

Again, thanks for the in-depth explanation, this helped me a great deal. 

[Goddin]

26 minutes ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

If you'd try to fit Blood Knights into this (fluff purposes, games between tournaments), you'd just scrap one of the VLoZDs in the list without the Batallion you posted, no? 

Cogs I basically only had for the Blood Knights' Charge. 

Correct, I would drop a VLoZD for the 10 blood knights. If you send 3 big beasties up on the objectives with some chainrasps to help screen somewhat, that would draw the attention of the enemy who has to attack them.  Once they are engaged, I would use a devastating second or third round charge with the Blood Knights for max damage.  BKs  are best on the charge by far.  

Also, keep in mind that the Court of Nuhlahmia is great for reducing drops.  I usually pick whether or not I want to go first, and usually I do.  I either get my heroes on the objectives first with screens, or I get an alphastrike charge.  If the enemy plays way back I give them first turn and then set myself up for a shot at a double turn.  A 4 drop army isn't perfect, but its better than most opponents I run into.

Edited August 14, 2019 by Goddin

[ColsBols]

I am super psyched about getting into Legion of Blood and just ordered a Bloodseeker Palanquin. Looking at this list right here, what should I use the extra 100 points for? 

LEADERS

BS Palanquin 300

Neferata 380

VLOZD 440

VL with Wings 140

BL: 3 10x Chainrasp

Court Battalion 150

and 5x Bloodknights

which puts me at 1850. 

[Sartxac]

On 9/13/2019 at 8:28 PM, ColsBols said:

I am super psyched about getting into Legion of Blood and just ordered a Bloodseeker Palanquin. Looking at this list right here, what should I use the extra 100 points for? 

LEADERS

BS Palanquin 300

Neferata 380

VLOZD 440

VL with Wings 140

BL: 3 10x Chainrasp

Court Battalion 150

and 5x Bloodknights

which puts me at 1850. 

80 p in Chronomatic Cogs or one horde of 40 chainrasp more 10 zombies. But in this case i would change the 40 chainrasp for 40 skeletons.

Edited September 15, 2019 by Sartxac

[BaylorCorvette]

I'm fairly new to AoS (couple months now), but I thought Chainrasps could only be Battleline in Nighthaunt armies?

[ZLee Syn]

On 9/18/2019 at 9:06 PM, BaylorCorvette said:

I'm fairly new to AoS (couple months now), but I thought Chainrasps could only be Battleline in Nighthaunt armies?

No, chainrasp are always battleline. Grimghast reapers are battleline only in nighthaunt.

[ZLee Syn]

@Goddin how do you deal with horde armies? How do you hold objectives? And do you think this is still playable with gotrek in huge percentage of games?

[Goddin]

11 minutes ago, ZLee Syn said:

@Goddin how do you deal with horde armies? How do you hold objectives? And do you think this is still playable with gotrek in huge percentage of games?

@ZLee Syn  Some good questions.

For all of these answers, I'm using my own list:

Legion of Blood

Neferata (overwhelming dread, general)

Vampire Lord on Zombie dragon (ethereal amulet, transference)

Vampire lord on Zombie dragon (orb of enchantment, pinions)

Bloodseeker palanquin (amethyst orb)

Court of Nulahmia

10 Chainrasps

10 Chainrasps

10 Chainrasps

1CP.

1) Dealing with horde armies can be tough, depending on the mission.  They obviously struggle in missions like duality of death or places of arcane power where I can get to the objectives first and then hold them with the durability of this army.  On other missions, I deal with it using speed.  I like to hit large horde units with one of my powerful heroes on each flank.  They struggle with pile ins, minimizing their return damage output.  That also traps them in place.  I often alpha strike hordes before they have CP for inspiring presence, or just to trap them in their deployment while chainrasps and 1 other unit (usually the palanquin) go for the objectives.  The ability to take an objective and then move off it helps a lot in this regard.  Chainrasps are surprisingly durable if they have nearby gravesites.  Lastly, the insane damage output of this army usually takes on hordes pretty well.  30 vulkite berserkers are the only thing I have really had trouble killing.

2) I hold objectives by putting gravesites near them and letting the chainrasps guard them.  My big guys are better used elsewhere, and have the speed to get back to them if necessary.  Pinning the opponent in their deployment area also works wonders for securing objectives with just  chainrasps.

3) This army is the best Gotrek killing army there is.  Read the text for "Orb of Enchantment" carefully.  For one combat phase, it stops the opponent from attacking or piling in or using abilities.  The last part is the most important.  It means Gotrek's 3+FNP ability is disabled for that combat phase.  His ability to reduce all sources of damage to 1 damage? Disabled for that combat phase.  So I have a zombie dragon moving 18 (23 or 28 if pinions goes off) hunting down Gotrek starting turn 1.  Easy to kill him in the 1 combat phase.  If the opponent then has to turtle up or screen for Gotrek that is 1/4 of his army that is neutered, all for the cost of 1 artefact.  P.S. this also works on Morathi. Both of these opponents can be 1 shot by my VLoZD in 1 round.  

The army does still have some weaknesses, and won't probably win most big tournaments.  But it is certainly competitive in the highest levels.  Only 3 things scare me when using this army: Terrorgheists (they are fishing for unmodified sixes, so my minuses to hit do nothing to them and they reroll for those sixes); Skaven with long range shooting outside my bubbles of minus to hit, often with heavy mortal wounds that bypass my good saves; and 30 Hearthguard berzerkers all buffed up (they attack first, are impossible to kill, and have lots of attacks doing mortal wounds on unmodified sixes to hit).

I have never gone below 3-2 with this army in a major tournament, and I've gone 5-0 at the largest tournament in Texas this year with this list.  I can usually still hang with FEC, avoiding the specific types of Skaven and Fyreslayer armies mentioned above is the only luck I really need to compete for the top tables.

[ZLee Syn]

4 hours ago, Goddin said:

@ZLee Syn  Some good questions.

For all of these answers, I'm using my own list:

Legion of Blood

Neferata (overwhelming dread, general)

Vampire Lord on Zombie dragon (ethereal amulet, transference)

Vampire lord on Zombie dragon (orb of enchantment, pinions)

Bloodseeker palanquin (amethyst orb)

Court of Nulahmia

10 Chainrasps

10 Chainrasps

10 Chainrasps

1CP.

1) Dealing with horde armies can be tough, depending on the mission.  They obviously struggle in missions like duality of death or places of arcane power where I can get to the objectives first and then hold them with the durability of this army.  On other missions, I deal with it using speed.  I like to hit large horde units with one of my powerful heroes on each flank.  They struggle with pile ins, minimizing their return damage output.  That also traps them in place.  I often alpha strike hordes before they have CP for inspiring presence, or just to trap them in their deployment while chainrasps and 1 other unit (usually the palanquin) go for the objectives.  The ability to take an objective and then move off it helps a lot in this regard.  Chainrasps are surprisingly durable if they have nearby gravesites.  Lastly, the insane damage output of this army usually takes on hordes pretty well.  30 vulkite berserkers are the only thing I have really had trouble killing.

2) I hold objectives by putting gravesites near them and letting the chainrasps guard them.  My big guys are better used elsewhere, and have the speed to get back to them if necessary.  Pinning the opponent in their deployment area also works wonders for securing objectives with just  chainrasps.

3) This army is the best Gotrek killing army there is.  Read the text for "Orb of Enchantment" carefully.  For one combat phase, it stops the opponent from attacking or piling in or using abilities.  The last part is the most important.  It means Gotrek's 3+FNP ability is disabled for that combat phase.  His ability to reduce all sources of damage to 1 damage? Disabled for that combat phase.  So I have a zombie dragon moving 18 (23 or 28 if pinions goes off) hunting down Gotrek starting turn 1.  Easy to kill him in the 1 combat phase.  If the opponent then has to turtle up or screen for Gotrek that is 1/4 of his army that is neutered, all for the cost of 1 artefact.  P.S. this also works on Morathi. Both of these opponents can be 1 shot by my VLoZD in 1 round.  

The army does still have some weaknesses, and won't probably win most big tournaments.  But it is certainly competitive in the highest levels.  Only 3 things scare me when using this army: Terrorgheists (they are fishing for unmodified sixes, so my minuses to hit do nothing to them and they reroll for those sixes); Skaven with long range shooting outside my bubbles of minus to hit, often with heavy mortal wounds that bypass my good saves; and 30 Hearthguard berzerkers all buffed up (they attack first, are impossible to kill, and have lots of attacks doing mortal wounds on unmodified sixes to hit).

I have never gone below 3-2 with this army in a major tournament, and I've gone 5-0 at the largest tournament in Texas this year with this list.  I can usually still hang with FEC, avoiding the specific types of Skaven and Fyreslayer armies mentioned above is the only luck I really need to compete for the top tables.

And what about slaanesh. Is -2 to hit enough to minimise the damage from keepers before you can strike back?

[Goddin]

10 hours ago, ZLee Syn said:

And what about slaanesh. Is -2 to hit enough to minimise the damage from keepers before you can strike back?

Yes, I don't have much trouble killing keepers and I can heal up a lot of the damage they do.  Plus the -2 to hit and the ethereal together limit the damage output to begin with.  I'm 3-1 against Slaanesh in tournament settings, and I lost the last game because they outmaneuvered me with seekers and because I failed a 3 inch charge on a keeper.  

 

Keep in mind, I've been playing this army since LoN came out.  So I have a lot of tactical knowledge and I know how to play the army very well.  Just running straight into the enemy trying to overpower them isn't always the right play - this list is great but you have to get some experience with it to do really well.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Goddin

[ZLee Syn]

On 10/17/2019 at 4:10 PM, Goddin said:

Yes, I don't have much trouble killing keepers and I can heal up a lot of the damage they do.  Plus the -2 to hit and the ethereal together limit the damage output to begin with.  I'm 3-1 against Slaanesh in tournament settings, and I lost the last game because they outmaneuvered me with seekers and because I failed a 3 inch charge on a keeper.  

 

Keep in mind, I've been playing this army since LoN came out.  So I have a lot of tactical knowledge and I know how to play the army very well.  Just running straight into the enemy trying to overpower them isn't always the right play - this list is great but you have to get some experience with it to do really well.

Yea, it seems like a very complex but also very fun list. For example that tip of atacking from 2 sides heavent come to my mind before. 

Is there ever asituation when you get first turn and then willingli get enemy doubleturn to prolong neferatas command ability?

[Goddin]

1 hour ago, ZLee Syn said:

Yea, it seems like a very complex but also very fun list. For example that tip of atacking from 2 sides heavent come to my mind before.

Yes, usually after round 2 on Duality of Death.  Strat: Take first turn, buff up (2x neferata's ability, get ethereal up), fly to both objectives, pop ghosts from gravesites as screens, hold.  Save 1 command point (2 to start, 1 gained on turn 1, 2 spent).  Enemy comes at you bottom of round 1.

Best scenario now, is to win the roll off, take the 1st turn.  You score immediately, you have a chance to regen ghosts who likely took a pounding, use VLoZD chalice and Vile Transference to try to go back to full health.  Buff up again, use 2x nef's command ability (all out of command points now).  Proceed to whittle down the opponent in combat.  Opponent fights some more bottom of round 2.

Roll of and win the roll.  NOW I think about giving them the other turn.  On one hand, if I can score both objectives in my turn, the best they can do is draw.  Only have enough points for 1 use of Nef's ability.  Often time that is the right move, if I'm losing (enemy shooting get me down, etc.)  If I'm still pretty healthy, I MIGHT give them the double.  That keeps -2 to hit up longer, rather than -1.  The reverse of that is it gives up a chance to heal up ghosts and use Vile Transference. 

But generally, you want alternating turns so that you can heal up between turns.  Best case is going first each round, or going 2nd turn 1, getting the double turn going into round 2, and then alternating.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Goddin

[Lucank]

First of all, thanks for your insights. I really want to try your list, love it!

I still have problems understanding how it works though. Palanquin stays with grasps at objectives, so no use of her "killed hero ability" is the palanquin only used passively and as a destraction?

Next is Neferata, does she fly up with the dragons? How do you keep her save positioning wise?  I always find her beeing overwhelmed even with -1 or -2 to hit.

Last issue are hordes again. Fec summons 20 ghouls, this loses you the objective, doesn't it? 10 grasps won't help much, right?

Or take cities, slaneesh, DoK with 2-3 30 model units. The dragons can do only so much, considering they also need to fight keepers etc. Maybe this will all solve itself playing the list often enough, but I always strugle with elite lists, although I would love making them work.

Anyways, thanks again, will definetly test the list and if i somehow can squeeze 10 blood knights in it and still make it work, it would be a dream come true lol.

[ZLee Syn]

I am learning here too but I will try to answer and hopefuly @Goddin will correct me.

Palanquin is there only for batalion. obviously you want to keep him close but objectives are more important. 

You make your models more durable by minimising atacks back. If you charge from 2 sides, middle will not be able to pile in because of coherency.

Neferata is the fastest and has smaller base so you can chose fights that she is equiped for.

Horde armies are slow and this list is not. You try to move first turn to them and block them either by screen or combat so they cannot get to objectives. If enemy has huge unit on objective, 2 dragons will usualy take care of it and then because it was big,you capture by 2 dragons since enemies cannot be close.

You can block summons by rasps since they need to be summoned near edge.

If you want bloodknights, just drop the batalion and bloodseeker for them.  Then you can also exchange rasps for wolfs to get cogs.

[Goddin]

ZLeeSyn makes great points above, on all of them.

The other thing I think you fail to realize is how much damage output the list has.  20 Ghouls take an objective?  Neferata can fly 16 over there, and put all her attacks in the ghouls and kill 12-14.  Rest may run from battleshock.  Killing a keeper takes at most 1 battleround from a Zombie Dragon (2 combat phases).  Neferata's strength is killing hordes, btw.

And yes, pinning your opponent in his deployment zone is a big option. 

Lastly, yes the Palanquin is mostly around for distraction and for being fast and going to get objectives.  He looks scary so opponents often don't try to mess with her, leave her and 10 rasps alone as too hard to take, even if she's actually a wimp.  The hero killed ability is awesome when it happens, but it's rare. 

 

[ZLee Syn]

On 10/29/2019 at 2:54 PM, Goddin said:

ZLeeSyn makes great points above, on all of them.

The other thing I think you fail to realize is how much damage output the list has.  20 Ghouls take an objective?  Neferata can fly 16 over there, and put all her attacks in the ghouls and kill 12-14.  Rest may run from battleshock.  Killing a keeper takes at most 1 battleround from a Zombie Dragon (2 combat phases).  Neferata's strength is killing hordes, btw.

And yes, pinning your opponent in his deployment zone is a big option. 

Lastly, yes the Palanquin is mostly around for distraction and for being fast and going to get objectives.  He looks scary so opponents often don't try to mess with her, leave her and 10 rasps alone as too hard to take, even if she's actually a wimp.  The hero killed ability is awesome when it happens, but it's rare. 

 

I am doing my preparations for my big tournament in february and I will bring this list. Since bonereapera are quite new I expect there will be some. Do you have any tips against them. It looks like they will be as tough as fyreslayers with 3+ rerollable save and 4+ negations from harvester.

[Goddin]

Bonereapers don't have any strike-first capabilities, so getting them on the charge I think is our best bet.  They are also susceptible to rend, as much of the army is relying on Petrifex Elite and their good saves.  I think we will generally be better than them with spell casting, except for Arkhan and Nagash.  Those two, I'm not sure what to do with.  That and large numbers of Mortek Guard re-rolling their saves. 

As usual with death factions, taking out the support heroes (bone-shapers) will be key.  Getting in the catapults face quickly will be important.  Hitting stalkers before they can go at us would be good, especially using an ethereal zombie dragon to avoid the precision mode.

All in all, too early to have a good feel on the game plan.  I do think bonereapers will struggle to get to the objectives and to take them from an army as defensive as Nuhlamia, so missions like 3 places of power and duality of death should still favor Nuhlahmia heavily.