Jump to content

Most powerful factions after GHB2019 & FAQs


Enoby

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

I think that's an overstatement.  The very top armies were undernerfed (in my opinion), but some of the armies underneath that level got some help.

IJ probably jumped a tier and a half (from a low base), Gloomspite got a lot of help (competitive options like the Webspinner A-Rok got a points drop, and they have more useful generic CAs to spend all those CPs on), and the drops in Khorne were targetted at the stuff that was already the most competitive.

I definitely think they could and should have gone significantly further on some very low hanging fruit (Slaanesh summoning is way out whack, Plague Monks are still an absolute joke, WLV still exists).  But I also think it's fair to say the field has tightened up a bit too.

Sorry if i didnt put clear. The post is about the mot powerful factions and i said that the gh havent changued nothing about those most powerful factions.

Excuse me if i wasnt clear,im with you that the gh buffed some factions,but those buffs havent changued tye god tier and that was my sentence

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PJetski said:

I agree with all of your criticism about Stormcast. They have a terrible book full of downright garbage battalions, lackluster stormhosts, and awful artefacts. Despite all that, the power of Anvilstrike can't be denied. When it is built and played properly it is so oppressively strong that there seems to be no counter

Anvilstrike is living proof that GW is completely out of touch with balancing in AoS. They nerfed one SCe list that was already getting it's butt kicked by the fight first meta, and basically didn't touch (or maybe made slightly cheaper) the one list that was completely dominating. It makes no sense.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, PJetski said:

I'm #2 on ITC, does that make my opinion more relevant to you?

Weird, Matt Pashby plays almost exclusively IDK and yet you're #2? Maybe you're the #3 guy who's best finish is 2nd at a 32 person event and every other finish is first a local level RTT? 

Edited by SwampHeart
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, SwampHeart said:

Weird, Matt Pashby plays almost exclusively IDK and yet you're #2? Maybe you're the #3 guy who's best finish is 2nd at a 32 person event and every other finish is first a local level RTT? 

You should see a doctor about that passive aggressive attitude, it can't be good for you 🙄

I was #2 but I guess the ranking was updated since the last time I checked it. 

Either way, you seem to have missed my point entirely. The status of being "a tournament player" is meaningless because this discussion just people flinging their opinions at each other. Nobody is objectively right or wrong about this topic, and claiming an opinion is more meaningful because somebody plays at a tournament is silly. 

  • Haha 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, PJetski said:

You should see a doctor about that passive aggressive attitude, it can't be good for you 

I was just seeking clarity. Hard to evaluate your 32-0 without understanding the context, 32-0 including 3 or 4 5 game majors is very different from 32-0 in a small pond. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, PJetski said:

I agree with all of your criticism about Stormcast. They have a terrible book full of downright garbage battalions, lackluster stormhosts, and awful artefacts. Despite all that, the power of Anvilstrike can't be denied. When it is built and played properly it is so oppressively strong that there seems to be no counter. I'm 32-0 with Anvilstrike so far this year at tournaments, and the meta has been packed full of the "top tier" armies like LON, DOK, HOS, Skaven, and FEC.

My Anvilstrike has no trouble beating Skaven, even before the point cost increases and WLV errata. Longstrikes outrange WLC and they have the advantage over Jezzails because they can be left in reserve and Stormcast teleport is more versatile than Gnawholes. I can't see how Skaven can beat that list.

I understand youve had successes against Skaven. My point in large is to the fact that the newer tomes have a lot more interesting possible combinations going on with their lists. Battalions, which leads to various artifact synergies and so on. Like e FEC has GG and Blisterskin Flayers as competitive spots, two very different strats.

DoK is mostly a one trick pony like us but they just blend everything in front of them with amazing movement. Skaven is like chaff SCE in its versatility , difference being they can field all of it at once. Although their potential is hampered by the fact that most players are essentially "playing what they owned" and / or are building 120 monk lists just by buying Plague monks and Pestilens SC boxes, so we havent seen the full potential of an optimized list outside of one or two outliers at tournaments.

your magmadroth comment was on point, a runefather with ignax protected by auric hearthguard with 30 HB in front is damn near impossible to kill. This is a small  but good example, brings out the fact that our lists are more often than not so tight on points, that combinations and small changes to the "deck" to address the meta isnt much of a choice for us outside of "take this warscroll". Meaning while we can build Anvils to beat a certain host of "expected" armies, other armies have a lot of ways to experiment and have combinations that we sometimes wont be able to do anything about.

 

Not to take anything away from your victories in AoS. Your advice has greatly helped me step up my game in our local tournament scene.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tiers are an interesting concept but far from flawless. Some factions are really good against some other factions making them top tier if those other factions are common in the meta. Some factions are hard to play for the beginner but potentially potent in the hands of a good player while other factions are  strong almost regardless of the player. Take Tzeentch for example, despite the small boost in  ghb19, the army is often not considered top tier. But due to good Magic def/of with  high mortal wound output and good antihoard spells it can challenge FEC and Skaven but at the same time being very fragile means you need to act carefully (needing some skill). The opposite example would be FEC: An army thats hard to fail with as long as you choose the right subfaction.  

If above is at least somewhat true that makes tiering harder.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Basically nothing changed. FEC swapped places with Fyreslayers. LoN dropped slightly due to weird points increases.

 

Skaven is still a mess with undercosted toolboxes of murder (greyseers alone blow my mind how that thing can be 120 pts two casts and warptoken to completely negate the range reduction of the vortex unbinding making the unbinding by an opponent very unlikely. Let alone plague monks and the verminlords).

 

Fyreslayers units will never die. You have to tie them up before they sit on any points or its game over. This is even harder as they can deepstrike and not all factions can run spell spam or deal enough mortal wounds to shift them.

 

Hedonites summoning is insanity and the damage output from a Keeper is closer to what I believe the baseline for all degrading behemoths should be to see play. 

 

DoK is DoK same issues. Same blender battleline that can run and charge and reroll everything and negate battleshock. Same coven still used exclusively for added toughness for your big block on a "glass cannon army". Same undercosted hag. 

 FeC - Not as brainless win every combat as before. Our resident FEC players moan endlessly that they have to actually learn the game rather than just slam their general into any combat and autowin. 2 of them are already selling off their forces believing they are "ruined". The potential for 6 mortal wounds on the cheaper than zombie dragon gheist still makes me wonder who point costs things at GW. They must be an exceptional employee in other regards because the point costing is highly questionable.  I still consider them very high tier and they have other forces that are powerful (feast day and blisterskin).

These are the forces I consider on the "strong side"  and even an inexperienced general with little tactical prowess will pull wins regularly with them. The combos are simple, strong (sometimes due to the interaction, sometimes due to the inherent power of the involved warscrolls) and do not require a lot of dynamic thought. And by this I mean that the combos do not require a lot of in game thinking about positioning, or placements or any of your opponents actions in general. Anyone in this  "netdeck" era can look up the best interactions. Hell I see brand new players show up and proudly proclaim such and such combo. It seems clever but you google "best FEC combo" and bam there are every interaction/combo you need to see.  What I consider difficult to pilot is when it requires significant skill to pull off said combos, which I do not consider many of the above to be. 

Edited by TheCovenLord
  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can only really comment on the armies I play with.

-Tzeentch - Remains the Same. Point hikes on key endless spells have really hurt. Also note the Gaunt Summoner with Chaos familiars, which was in literally every list,  was straight up dropped from matched play. However a few key points drops helped offset.  Lists will likely change pretty dramtically but overall a net of zero.

-Sylvaneth- Increase from low tier to mid tier. Though technically this is because of a new codex (and not a GHB update) the sylvaneth got better at everything they do. With the exception of Kurnoth Hunters, the power creep of the book was actually quite modest so hopefully this is indicative of future codex releases.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Landohammer said:

I can only really comment on the armies I play with.

-Tzeentch - Remains the Same. Point hikes on key endless spells have really hurt. Also note the Gaunt Summoner with Chaos familiars, which was in literally every list,  was straight up dropped from matched play. However a few key points drops helped offset.  Lists will likely change pretty dramtically but overall a net of zero.

-Sylvaneth- Increase from low tier to mid tier. Though technically this is because of a new codex (and not a GHB update) the sylvaneth got better at everything they do. With the exception of Kurnoth Hunters, the power creep of the book was actually quite modest so hopefully this is indicative of future codex releases.

i wouldn't say dramatically with tzeentch. my list dropped 3 enlightened in favour of more pinks and a cp :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, CountryMou3e said:

i wouldn't say dramatically with tzeentch. my list dropped 3 enlightened in favour of more pinks and a cp :)

You probably aren't alone with those changes. I foresee the following changes to be extremely common

-Gaunt Summoner (-180)

+10 Pink Horrors (+180)

- 3 Enlightened (-160)

-Cogs (-80)

So about 30% of the list makeup changed. Probably not dramatic per say but definitely far-reaching! 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

You probably aren't alone with those changes. I foresee the following changes to be extremely common

-Gaunt Summoner (-180)

+10 Pink Horrors (+180)

- 3 Enlightened (-160)

-Cogs (-80)

So about 30% of the list makeup changed. Probably not dramatic per say but definitely far-reaching! 

Why would anyone drop the Gaunt Summoner? Even without the familiars he is a monster at clearing hordes

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

51 minutes ago, Samanar said:

I guess that the fact Slaves to Darkness were not even taken under consideration when this Tier list was created says something about their position, eh? ;)

Honestly im not sure but i dont care much for that faction. It has a very old world feeling to it with generic chaos. 

Much like Free Peoples. I loved the empire in WHFB, but in the grandness of AOS they feel bad and average so allying them with SCE , i think was the right move. STD feels like the same way a "free peoples" but for various chaos alignments

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The familars getting dropped is akin to sacrilege - they are too cute. ☹️ My GS will still have them by his side even if they have no effect now. 😂

Personally not much changes for my lists - the spells getting more expensive is the biggest change indeed, the enlightened point bump cancels itself out with others becoming a tiny bit cheaper. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

42 minutes ago, MitGas said:

The familars getting dropped is akin to sacrilege - they are too cute. ☹️ My GS will still have them by his side even if they have no effect now. 😂

Personally not much changes for my lists - the spells getting more expensive is the biggest change indeed, the enlightened point bump cancels itself out with others becoming a tiny bit cheaper. 

 

I have the 1980's familiars, purchased about a month ago, they were always meant to become fluff. They are exceedingly cute!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, PJetski said:

I'm #2 on ITC, does that make my opinion more relevant to you?

Regardless of your ITC standing I promise you SCE and Seraphon are not top teir and will not be winning a 5 to 6 game GT. It is best if we all define our tiering definition since people often misunderstand each other. 

T1 typically indicates that the list is so oppressive that unless the other player also has a T1 list ( or a T2 list that has been drawn into a good match up and battleplan and there is a differnce in player skill) the list will win. These T1 lists are what primarily win 5 to 6 game GTs.

T2 lists are solid. If you are a strong player and get placed into good match ups you could get lucky and win a GT.

T3 lists are decent. You can win quite a few games. But no... you will not be winning the GT. Other lists are just better and it is unlikely your player skill/match up will carry you through.

Below T3... forget it. you are going for fun. You don't have a real list. There isn't even a need to discuss where you will be placing because it won't be high.

Often a list can only beat a list of equal tier or maybe one tier above.

Here is a good example of MTGA tiering.

https://mtgadecks.net/

With a title like "Most powerful factions after GHB2019 & FAQs" this thread is going to be a mess of opinions. Again to redirect focus: http://podcast.justplaygames.uk/generals-handbook-2019-review-mega-episode and http://facehammer.co.uk/2019/07/13/episode-75-aos-6-nations-2019-and-round-table/ (second half) give a good state of the meta. The below image is pre FAQ and GH19 but still fairly accurate for those just skimming the thread and do not want to listen to the above podcasts.

Also it should be noted that each of these factions represent the best list in the book rather than the book as a whole. IDK is an eel list (not a list with 4 turtles) GS is 120+ grots (not 100% trolls) etc.

Justsaying Podcast Age of Sigmar Tier List June 2019

 

Edited by svnvaldez
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This causes brain hurt,

For a true analysis you would have to take out the scores of the top 10-15percent as they are better players and you will see people basically copying their lists and finish mid table you would also have to remove their wins from the opponents that they have beat records, also you would need to balance the the games and the factions, for example KO aren't that popular at the moment but you their was a sudden influx of KO players and they mostly matched up against khorne or slaanesh suddenly everyone would think them a higher tier than if they met constant match ups against SC anvils, Skaven, IDK.  So you would need that an equal amount of factions  playing against an equal amount of opposing factions with every faction represented with each allegiance type playing an equal amount of games.

My opinion on the ghb it's pretty good, being a primary khorne daemon player happy with the points drop still unhappy with the new khorne book, as my whole army got nerfed and mortals got made better bloodletters and blood crushers mostly aren't worth the points but they're painted so they see the tabletop.

Edited by TimM85
  • Like 1
  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, TimM85 said:

For a true analysis you would have to take out the scores of the top 10-15percent as they are better players and you will see people basically copying their lists and finish mid table you would also have to remove their wins from the opponents that they have beat records, also you would need to balance the the games and the factions, for example KO aren't that popular at the moment but you their was a sudden influx of KO players and they mostly matched up against khorne or slaanesh suddenly everyone would think them a higher tier than if they met constant match ups against SC anvils, Skaven, IDK.  So you would need that an equal amount of factions  playing against an equal amount of opposing factions with every faction represented with each allegiance type playing an equal amount of games.

Very true.

4 minutes ago, TimM85 said:

 My opinion on the ghb it's pretty good, being a primary khorne daemon player happy with the points drop still unhappy with the new khorne book, as my whole army got nerfed and mortals got made better bloodletters and blood crushers mostly aren't worth the points but they're painted so they see the tabletop.

As a destruction player I'm happy with it as well. Imo at beginning of next year, when most armies have an AOS2.0 book, the game will be in a great place and most armies can feel like they could win enough games to keep players of each faction happy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, prochuvi said:

Sorry if i didnt put clear. The post is about the mot powerful factions and i said that the gh havent changued nothing about those most powerful factions.

Excuse me if i wasnt clear,im with you that the gh buffed some factions,but those buffs havent changued tye god tier and that was my sentence

Fair enough, makes sense when you put it like that :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...