Warcry - Ironjawz discussion

[tyler1906]

On 8/2/2019 at 3:54 AM, tom_gore said:

GW dropped the ball on this one (same with the preytakers on the Beasts).

Against any toughness value, the two choppas do more damage on average than the gore-hacka, unless my math fails me really bad.

6,66 wounds average against T3 or less with the 2 choppas vs 5 with the gore-hacka.

5,33 vs. 5 against T4

4 vs 4 against T5

If there would be a T6 model it would be 4 vs. 3 for the 2 choppas again.

 

So don't waste your money buying brutes and giving them gore-hackas. No one uses them in AoS either.

I don't know man, I watched a game at my store those str 5 toughness 5 brutes were pretty nasty. I get the mathhammer, I like the higher toughness and stregnth.

[tom_gore]

13 minutes ago, tyler1906 said:

I don't know man, I watched a game at my store those str 5 toughness 5 brutes were pretty nasty. I get the mathhammer, I like the higher toughness and stregnth.

I mean comparing to the brute with 2 choppas. They both have 5 toughness, but the one with 2 choppas has 1 extra attack and the one with the gore-hacka has 1 extra strength.

The gore-hacka looks cooler maybe, but it's inferior in all situations to the 2 choppas.

[tyler1906]

4 minutes ago, tom_gore said:

I mean comparing to the brute with 2 choppas. They both have 5 toughness, but the one with 2 choppas has 1 extra attack and the one with the gore-hacka has 1 extra strength.

The gore-hacka looks cooler maybe, but it's inferior in all situations to the 2 choppas.

I see your point, I think they are great against higher strengths. Maybe  they should have had a 2inch range to make them  a little better

[tom_gore]

Just now, tyler1906 said:

I see your point, I think they are great against higher strengths. Maybe  they should have had a 2inch range to make them  a little better

You thinking doesn't change the fact that on average you do more damage against any toughness. It's just your perception. Math doesn't lie

It definitely would change the situation if it had 2" range. Would be totally justifiable too since those are damn long polearms they're swinging.

 

[DrJekyll325]

I picked up the Ironjawz cards last night, and I think they're going to provide the impetus to finish up the Brutes that I've had languishing on my hobby table for a while.  I'll start off building this 990-point warband and see how it does:

• Brute Boss with Boss Klaw and Smasha   (250 pts.)
• Brute with Gore-Choppa   (200 pts.)
• 3 x Brutes with two Brute Choppas   (180 pts. each)

Anyone played any games with an all-Brute list yet?

[Vasshpit]

Yeah that 1" range on gore choppa and hackas has got to be a mistake, right?

Just seems off....

For one the weapon alone is bigger than most available models for warcry... O_o 

[tom_gore]

Played three games with Ironjawz yesterday. Two games with all brutes and one with all Ardboys. I'm pretty convinced Ironjawz is seriously underpowered at the moment. Their 3" movement and 1" reach across the whole list is a crippling weakness that any smart opponent can easily exploit.

The fact that you need to spend a high triple and activate your leader first to get your list moving across the board at any decent speed only pours more salt to the wounds.

On top of that, they have pretty lousy abilities. Shield bash is a waste of a Double, no matter how you look at it. Rampaging destroyers is very situational and not even very powerful for a Quad. Duff up da Big Thing is good, but only if your opponent is stupid enough to engage your brutes within 1". Charge is ok, but it's also still limited by your mighty 3" movement and 1" range.

Against another short ranged melee-only list the Ironjawz would probably be ok, but against anything mobile they're just screwed.

I played against the Gitz by the way and can wholeheartedly say the netters ****** up Ironjawz badly and their Quad is just utterly broken on the Boingrots.

 

[Kramer]

1 hour ago, tom_gore said:

Played three games with Ironjawz yesterday. Two games with all brutes and one with all Ardboys. I'm pretty convinced Ironjawz is seriously underpowered at the moment. Their 3" movement and 1" reach across the whole list is a crippling weakness that any smart opponent can easily exploit.

The fact that you need to spend a high triple and activate your leader first to get your list moving across the board at any decent speed only pours more salt to the wounds.

On top of that, they have pretty lousy abilities. Shield bash is a waste of a Double, no matter how you look at it. Rampaging destroyers is very situational and not even very powerful for a Quad. Duff up da Big Thing is good, but only if your opponent is stupid enough to engage your brutes within 1". Charge is ok, but it's also still limited by your mighty 3" movement and 1" range.

Against another short ranged melee-only list the Ironjawz would probably be ok, but against anything mobile they're just screwed.

I played against the Gitz by the way and can wholeheartedly say the netters ****** up Ironjawz badly and their Quad is just utterly broken on the Boingrots.

 

Do you like the game? Did you fun? 

Because the the summary of this post isn’t good in any way 😂 everything is broken, salt in the wounds or built to mess up Ironjawz. With the only positive, only good if your opponent doesn’t play around it. 

Funnily enough a mate of mine told me this weekend that Ironjawz were genuinely overpowered. He played (I think) untamed beasts and stormcast. So I’m wondering what the difference in experience is. 

[tom_gore]

1 minute ago, Kramer said:

Do you like the game? Did you fun? 

Because the the summary of this post isn’t good in any way 😂 everything is broken, salt in the wounds or built to mess up Ironjawz. With the only positive, only good if your opponent doesn’t play around it. 

Funnily enough a mate of mine told me this weekend that Ironjawz were genuinely overpowered. He played (I think) untamed beasts and stormcast. So I’m wondering what the difference in experience is. 

I like the pre-game mechanics a lot. There is genuinely no two games of Warcry alike. The initiative roll (with the wild dice mechanic) is also pure brilliance and by far one of the deepest tactical elements of the game. In-game mechanics are very straightforward, maybe even too much so. Especially with a band like the Ironjawz there is very little tactical depth in the actual gameplay you can do against faster armies except to slog fowards towards the objectives and hope you stay alive with your high toughness and wounds.

Of course it all boils down to the deployment, terrain, twist and objectives. With a lucky pull you get an objective that forces the enemy to come to you and try to kill you all. Most of the time it seems the objectives favour more diverse warbands that are able to adapt to different tactics. Ironjawz don't really have different tactics. It's all slow footslog with 1" melee range.

Could also just be that the Gitz are a nightmare matchup for the Ironjawz, which is easy to believe. The 45 point netter able to shut down a 200 point brute with a double and a 3+ from 11" away is powerful, and as I said, their Quad on the Boingrots is just bonkers.

I'll have to give the IJ another try against another warband, but I won't be bringing them against the Gitz anytime soon.

 

[RaiderX]

So my prediction in page 1 turn out to be true? You know this wouldn't be a big problem if the IronJawz Charge double was able to bypass that rules.

Edited August 7, 2019 by RaiderX

[tom_gore]

18 minutes ago, RaiderX said:

So my prediction in page 1 turn out to be true? You know this wouldn't be a big problem if the IronJawz Charge double was able to bypass that rules.

It's still just 3" bonus move in most cases. Not very powerful. Of course combo it with Waaagh! and you'll have a Brute charging 12" across the board and then hitting something. That's a triple 6 and a double in the same turn though, so...

 

[RaiderX]

3 minutes ago, tom_gore said:

It's still just 3" bonus move in most cases. Not very powerful. Of course combo it with Waaagh! and you'll have a Brute charging 12" across the board and then hitting something. That's a triple 6 and a double in the same turn though, so...

 

3" is enough to engage and smack the net git as it only had 3" activation range. For something like the Unmade it could be more difficult as their range is based on dice value.

[tom_gore]

4 minutes ago, RaiderX said:

3" is enough to engage and smack the net git as it only had 3" activation range. For something like the Unmade it could be more difficult as their range is based on dice value.

But the net dude has just used the net and boom, you cannot make that bonus move since it blocks move and disengage actions.

 

[RaiderX]

1 minute ago, tom_gore said:

But the net dude has just used the net and boom, you cannot make that bonus move since it blocks move and disengage actions.

 

Did you read my post? I said it wouldn't be a problem if the ability was worded to bypass the net ability,

[tom_gore]

Just now, RaiderX said:

Did you read my post? I said it wouldn't be a problem if the ability was worded to bypass the net ability,

Ah right. But it isn't, so we're just officially screwed

 

[Lior'Lec]

     What’re people running on their Ironjaws? I’m building up a quick warband for my cousin to tryout the game with and have Ironskull’s Boyz and Brutes to make his team from (I let him select a faction from those I had the models and cards for). My rough idea is the use all 4 boyz with 2 brutes; but I haven’t decided if I wanna use Ironskull himself as the leader or as just another dual weapon ‘ard boy and use the boss claw brute as leader.

 

     Edit: also does anyone have a spare ‘ard boy shield they’d be willing to part with and sell me? Going to covert the sword and axe boy into a shield guy but don’t wanna buy a box for just one shield. 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Lior'Lec
It’s in the post

[Txplays]

With only a 3” inch base move, does that mean we cannot climb up to platforms and will be forced to use the ladders?

[RaiderX]

9 hours ago, Txplays said:

With only a 3” inch base move, does that mean we cannot climb up to platforms and will be forced to use the ladders?

I'm sure you can stand directly underneath the edge of a (almost but still count as) 3" platform and climb up, and it'll count as 3".

Still,  it'd probably best stay away from climbing.

[tom_gore]

3 hours ago, RaiderX said:

I'm sure you can stand directly underneath the edge of a (almost but still count as) 3" platform and climb up, and it'll count as 3".

Still,  it'd probably best stay away from climbing.

You can combo two move actions to climb up, as you are still climbing when you finish the first move and thus won't fall. You will need to finish your activation with the center of your base on a platform though or you will fall.

3" is not enough to climb up on a 3" platform if you're touching the base of the platform at the beginning of the move, since you still need to pay for the horizontal movement too, enough to move you at least half the diameter of your base onto the platform. I see a lot of players playing this wrong and ignoring the horizontal movement when they climb onto a platform.

 

[DinoTitanedition]

So, I had two games today. I play an all out Ardboys warband. The boss, two guys with shields, three guys with two choppaz and three guys with a really big choppa.

Game 1

The first game was against Vanguard Stormcats. Four Vanguards, a Gryphhound and two Eagles, or whatever they are called. Gotta say, that's a tough match for Ardboys. Vanguard cannot only take a hit, their shootiness is pretty good too. We played a scenario where victory points are scored at the end of the turn for each model that is 3" above the ground.

Whil I tried to duff em Goldies up good, I quickly had to realise, that they won't outlast a Stormcat in a straight up fight. The real killer though was the Gryphhound. Damn thing took down two of my boys with ease and it took quite some effort to kill that damn thing. On our troops I'm split - two choppaz is good, but I think the big choppa is better.

Shieldboyz proved to be effective when it came down to durability. At first I thought these guys can't keep up with the other boys, but when it's about holding an objective, they are outstanding. I think I'll keep it the way I played today, one of them in the Dagger and one of them in the Hammer group.

I squeezed out a narrow victory by climbing a building with the last movement of the game.

 

Game 2

I played against Gitz, with one Hoppaboss, one Hoppa with lance, two squigs and one herder. Opposed to what I thought an elite Hoppa warband actually does very good, my opponent had a bit of bad luck when we drew the victory conditions. I was the attacker and had to destroy at least four mission markers, while he could place six in total and had to keep three of them intact at least.

One of our crews (Shield) arrived in the second round. Again, I was lucky, as I got a tripple and was able to move faster, so I had basically won at the beginning of round two. We decided to go on to see what our armies can do, and I think that Gitz can be pretty dangerous for us. As our Boyz have only 15HP they can die rather quickly and he had a skill with which he could jump over my boys and dealed an automatic 5 damage at everything in range where the Hoppa landed.

Yeah, I managed to kill him, but I drew some boys towards him, which temted him to split his attacks. So one boy survived and finished the already injured Hoppaboss off.

 

Now Hoppas are extremely fast and our speed is a problem. We have a numerical adavantage but have to a)know our enemy and b) use our manouvering ability really, really smart, as we can easyly get diversed from mission goals. If I would've played the previous scenario with him I wouldn't have stood a chance.

 

So much from the front at the Varanspire for now. The Redfists have been victorious in their first two battles, let's see how many more we'll face in the future.

[Eldarain]

In our games so far most turns are just about getting a good Waaagh. I find the basic abilities far better for us than the Warband specific ones other than that.

A Brute Boss is terrifying with the generic Quad. One shotted a full health Boingrot boss. 

Also DinoTitanEdition BoingBoingBoing is super good but it only affects one model within 1" and it forces the Squig to forgo abusing the 2" reach they have.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Eldarain

[The_Tallest_Ork]

On 8/5/2019 at 10:24 AM, DrJekyll325 said:

I picked up the Ironjawz cards last night, and I think they're going to provide the impetus to finish up the Brutes that I've had languishing on my hobby table for a while.  I'll start off building this 990-point warband and see how it does:

• Brute Boss with Boss Klaw and Smasha   (250 pts.)
• Brute with Gore-Choppa   (200 pts.)
• 3 x Brutes with two Brute Choppas   (180 pts. each)

Anyone played any games with an all-Brute list yet?

I got a couple games in with that same setup this weekend, winning one with a tanky boss holding a tower King Kong-style and losing one after getting outnumbered in a three-objective game.

The biggest hurdle in my games was only being able to fit two brutes in my Shield group -- you can't put more than 50% of your warband in it, and we didn't notice anything in the rulebook saying whether you can round fractions up. That means some deployments will keep two of your five fighters off the board until the second turn.

The guys who start on the board can be quicker than they seem if you roll decently for ability dice. Turn two you'll probably be in melee and all your dice will go towards choppin', leaving your reserves possibly running in from the far edge of the board. I'm not sure what a pure brute list can do to overcome deployments like that.

On the upside they definitely make an impact when they reach combat! Keep an eye on your opponent's fighter cards because Duff Up is a big upgrade over Onslaught on the right targets; some armies have champion versions of their little guys who actually meet the wound requirement.

[Klarum]

Quick question: do you  need to buy the starter box in order to get the basic abilities card (not the warband specific abilities)? Or do the basic abilities come in the book so i can just buy that? 

Thanks.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Klarum

[Eldarain]

12 minutes ago, Klarum said:

Quick question: do you  need to buy the starter box in order to get the basic abilities card (not the warband specific abilities)? Or do the basic abilities come in the book so i can just buy that? 

Thanks.

The Starter box is the only place to get the universal abilities card afaik.

The rulebook has them though.

[Klarum]

Thank you for the answer.

Edited August 12, 2019 by Klarum