Squatting Watch: Alerts for Discontinued Models

[Kamose]

7 minutes ago, madmac said:

I'm not even complaining at this point, I just don't understand how people are reading the grand designs of the cunningly crafted CoS battletome in the mix. The point was to remove models they didn't want to support anymore, and they did.

That's my point as well. There are no grand designs and GW didn't axe High Elves because they hate elves or hate elf players or suck at their jobs.  They did it to reduce the amount of inventory they have to create and store especially for the products that were not selling as highly as they expected.  Beyond that are concerns about game design and redundancy in the Battletome itself. 

Lastly are lore concerns.  As annoying as inconsistency in the lore is, they can change it to be whatever they want at any time that suits them.  To put it another way, they can easily change the lore to match more important considerations but its pretty damn hard to adjust the financials to accommodate storing tons of high elf models that aren't selling because high elves are mentioned in the Realmgate Wars. 

[Kamose]

9 minutes ago, dekay said:

This one is a bit baffling, given that they left the kit that allows you to build *actual Karl Franz*

That's not Karl Franz.  In the new lore his name is Farl Kranz!

[Kyriakin]

I always wondered if you could take a whole load of Wood, High and Dark Elves and unify them with a paint scheme.

A few head swaps might help if, say, you are doing a High Elf army and don't think the Executioner skull heads would fit, but, in general, they are all tall, slender guys with cloaks, weapons and varying amounts of armour.

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However, there is more to the "counts as" situation than just aesthetics. If the rules don't fit the theme of your army, that can be a problem as well.

For instance, if, say, Icefall Yhetees were dropped from some new combined Ogre book (i.e. one where the Everwinter has been retconned out of existence), people could say "just use your 21 Yhetees as Gorgers". While this might work aesthetically in terms of base sizes, stature and posing, the Gorger rules would not remotely fit the "silent killer from the icy blizzard" theme that should be represented by those models.

Dwarf players don't want to use their guys as humans. They want books of grudges, mining, grumpiness, reverence for ancestors/tradition, metal-smithing, bluntness, beer brewing and other classic dwarf tropes baked into the rules, which counts-as Freeguild would obviously never have.

Edited August 4, 2019 by Kyriakin

[Laststand]

On 8/3/2019 at 2:30 PM, kenshin620 said:

Also I can imagine skaven players gleefully clapping their little paws that their metal Gutter Runners are still somehow alive.

Actually we mostly hate those models and wish they were plastic. Lots of people convert the bloodbowl team as proxies.  

[Fairbanks]

1 hour ago, Kamose said:

That's my point as well. There are no grand designs and GW didn't axe High Elves because they hate elves or hate elf players or suck at their jobs.  They did it to reduce the amount of inventory they have to create and store especially for the products that were not selling as highly as they expected.  Beyond that are concerns about game design and redundancy in the Battletome itself. 

Lastly are lore concerns.  As annoying as inconsistency in the lore is, they can change it to be whatever they want at any time that suits them.  To put it another way, they can easily change the lore to match more important considerations but its pretty damn hard to adjust the financials to accommodate storing tons of high elf models that aren't selling because high elves are mentioned in the Realmgate Wars. 

But what if it WAS because the High Elves were wrong about Malakith the whole time?

[Skreech Verminking]

1 hour ago, Laststand said:

Actually we mostly hate those models and wish they were plastic. Lots of people convert the bloodbowl team as proxies.  

And almost 50%or more of the skaven player range uses nightrunners as the elite Gutter runners.

Because there is literally  no different from the look.

[JackStreicher]

3 hours ago, Charleston said:

I look forward for the "Sylvaneth killed the Radio Star Greywater Fastness" Lore.

Btw, I have 2 Boxes full of "Assault on Skull Pass" Dworfs. Any Idea how to use them now? Terrain? Basing Material? Tought about some Stoned Dworfs, like in Guild Wars Lore, that are statues now.

Sell them to T9A Players

[EccentricCircle]

4 hours ago, Charleston said:

 

Btw, I have 2 Boxes full of "Assault on Skull Pass" Dworfs. Any Idea how to use them now? Terrain? Basing Material? Tought about some Stoned Dworfs, like in Guild Wars Lore, that are statues now.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd be happy to give them a home.

 

I'd just about convinced myself that GW only have limited production capacity, so they do need to phase out cool models from time to time in order to bring in new stuff. Then...

"Next week's preorders: yet more space marines! "

Yay, i think I'll be sticking to 2nd hand and 3rd party models for a while again...

 

[Azamar]

3 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

I always wondered if you could take a whole load of Wood, High and Dark Elves and unify them with a paint scheme.

I’ve done this and I think it works. A lot of the newer plastics had similar features across the different armies- dark elves a bit more spikey and wood elves (eternal guard anyway) have a tunic rather than a breast plate, but there’s enough similarities to gel them together imo. 

[Lord marcus]

On 8/3/2019 at 8:27 AM, Sunshine said:

 

Yeah a complete joke really to add to the disappointment of GW getting rid of some really nice models. Sold out already when last chance to buy meaning the only way to get hold of them will be second hand or if they do made to order in the future.

Or recast if you are morally grey

[Lord marcus]

On 8/3/2019 at 11:44 AM, Thiagoma said:

No it isnt. My first AoS product ever was Spire of Dawn, my wife gave me.

I liked the product line and in AoS 1.0 it was very competitive and fun,  so i kept buying and waiting for my time in the Sun.  We became weaker and weaker with new rules, but hey, Skaven only got a book this year! 

When the cities book was anounced we felt a lot of joy, and now we got squashed. Sorry if the discussion doesnt matter to you,  but it does for some of us.

You are not alone my friend. Know that.

[Lord marcus]

On 8/3/2019 at 2:37 PM, Nubl0 said:

well heres hoping I can get hold of 2 skycutters to finish off me swifthawks. I'm going to assume they're gone now even though its only listed as temporarily unavailable. I also put in an order for 2 of them at element last week. Wonder if I'll get a refund shortly haha!

2nd hand groups on FB. Recasts maybe.

On 8/3/2019 at 5:50 PM, Double Misfire said:

Not sure if it's been said, but I'm pretty sure the most screwed over faction is Soulblight  

THANK YOU. Granted, I'm using dragon blades as conversion fodder in general, but same stuff applies.

17 hours ago, 123lac said:

For the cannon, yeah that's weird, but you can always use it as a "counts as" for a similar type of artillery.

High Elves were part of WHFB, AoS is a separate game in a separate universe. Personally I am 10 x more excited by what they might do with the light elf faction from Hysh than seeing them try to keep an ancient model line fresh.

AoS is not a separate game. The opener/world creation is ****** SIGMAR flying through the void of existence on the core of WHFB world.

9 hours ago, Laststand said:

Actually we mostly hate those models and wish they were plastic. Lots of people convert the bloodbowl team as proxies.  

Also THANK YOU. Same to he Skyre acolytes.

[EMMachine]

The main problem I see is not that models get discontinued, but that some of them will simply not have a proxiwarscroll to use. And partly this Problem comes mostly from GWs rulepolitics, only having rules for models they sell.

I don't need a split between aelfs modelwise. I mean, why wouldn't there be shadow- or woodelf Lion Rangers (sadly the model got discontinued).

With the models gone, there is no longer an Archer with a regulary Archer Profile (1 attack, 4+/4+ no Rend )in the cities of Sigmar battletome) as well as mounted Archers (and no Pistoliers have only Javelin Range). It really saddens me that my Tribesmen will have to use a black powder weaponprofile because it kills the immersion of the Background (wounding on 3+ and having rend).

As well they lost the lost there last mounted heroes that doesn't have a monster as mount.

GW created a nearly infinite world but reduced the varity while there could be 1000 times the varity (which would be way to much for GWs production capacity).

Edited August 5, 2019 by EMMachine

[Chaos Shepard]

I'm not too surprised by the majority of the cuts they made. Some did take me by surprise at first but on closer inspection I found that they were either resin/metal or had some kind of oldworld marking that may not be suitable for the current setting. About the only unit that really surprised be was the Skycutter. 

I don't personally play these armies so I have no personal stakes in this matter but I have lost units to updates in the past. If you wish to move forward it's best not to take it personally and try to re-purpose what you can.

[PlasticCraic]

14 hours ago, Sartxac said:

Thank's for reassuring me to Kyraikin, Luke82 and Overread. I buy the Thundertruk and wait for the complete batteltome. I want a pretty army of ogors in "mammoths" and heavy cannons. And bases decorated with snow and blue clothing.

I would hold off on the Thundertusk.  That kit currently has 6 different Warscrolls:

Frostlord on Stonehorn / Thundertusk

Huskard on Stonehorn / Thundertusk

Beastriders on Stonehorn / Thundertusk

Unless you're heavily into magnetizing, who knows what variant you will want to build when the update comes out? 

Even the Ogor Bulls, we know they'll be in the book because they have been reboxed and featured heavily in the recent video.  But currently the more popular build is dual weapons, maybe it will be the Iron Fists in the new book instead?  Maybe they will not be the Battleline option you want at all - maybe Leadbelchers will suddenly become the go-to for example?

If you want to be safe, I would buy literally nothing for now, and hold tight for the book.

[SentinelGuy]

13 hours ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

At least shield Stormcast (Liberators) only have one kit and Warscroll for example.   

Don't forget Sequitors.  Apparently 1 unit with shields and hammers that fulfill the exact same role in the exact same army wasn't enough 😒

Edited August 5, 2019 by SentinelGuy

[zilberfrid]

1 hour ago, Chaos Shepard said:

I'm not too surprised by the majority of the cuts they made. Some did take me by surprise at first but on closer inspection I found that they were either resin/metal or had some kind of oldworld marking that may not be suitable for the current setting. About the only unit that really surprised be was the Skycutter. 

I don't personally play these armies so I have no personal stakes in this matter but I have lost units to updates in the past. If you wish to move forward it's best not to take it personally and try to re-purpose what you can.

The empire general was completely out of the blue for me. It is in almost every Freeguild army. That set, not the Forgeworld command set, or the two single pose ones they had. It has multiple loadout options, and is well sculpted.

It is the one they picture on the warscroll, and the one with "empire general" in the URL. What we now have left is a mere captain with the worst loadout you could think to give a general, and an ugly one at it.

I expected some cuts in the high elves, but not to this extent. They needed the high elf/disposessed players to start up AoS, and now they dump them.

[zilberfrid]

deleted. You are right.

Edited August 5, 2019 by zilberfrid

[RuneBrush]

+++ MOD HAT +++

No grey area on recasts at all on TGA - quite simply piracy in any form is a massive black area, regardless on if a product is out of publication or not.

[Ollie Grimwood]

1 hour ago, SentinelGuy said:

Don't forget Sequitors.  Apparently 1 unit with shields and hammers that fulfill the exact same role in the exact same army wasn't enough 😒

Just what you’re after then. 

[zilberfrid]

So, for everyone, if GW is not making new models for your army, they are simply collecting money until they find it too inconvenient to have you in the game any longer.

If CoS reveal is without new models for Dark elves, they will be the next to be removed. If there are no models for Free people, they are on a timer. If there are no models for Disposessed, they'll be phased out. Similar for the last few remaining high elves. Wanderers seem to fit the Kurnothi, so they are saved in a way.

[Overread]

Just now, zilberfrid said:

If CoS reveal is without new models for Dark elves, they will be the next to be removed. If there are no models for Free people, they are on a timer. If there are no models for Disposessed, they'll be phased out. Similar for the last few remaining high elves. Wanderers seem to fit the Kurnothi, so they are saved in a way.

I don't think you've got the right end of the stick here. GW is clearly firming up the AoS product line right now. It would be insane for them to do a 2.0 battletome and then start removing more and more models and whole armies. GW is using 2.0 basically as the 1.0 launch of AoS and a final tidy up of the whole model range. It's been avery bumpy, messy process due in part to big changes in GW's management and attitude toward AoS which is why its taken so long to get its act together. 

 

Now GW might well release new models and replace old sculpts over time and we might lose one or two here and there; but in general I wouldn't expect them to release a 2.0 Tome and then later start removing more models. It would unsettle the AoS fanbase FAR too much in general and that would make it very hard to sell - esp after all the unsettling they've done thus far. 

[zilberfrid]

1 minute ago, Overread said:

I don't think you've got the right end of the stick here. GW is clearly firming up the AoS product line right now. It would be insane for them to do a 2.0 battletome and then start removing more and more models and whole armies. GW is using 2.0 basically as the 1.0 launch of AoS and a final tidy up of the whole model range. It's been avery bumpy, messy process due in part to big changes in GW's management and attitude toward AoS which is why its taken so long to get its act together. 

 

Now GW might well release new models and replace old sculpts over time and we might lose one or two here and there; but in general I wouldn't expect them to release a 2.0 Tome and then later start removing more models. It would unsettle the AoS fanbase FAR too much in general and that would make it very hard to sell - esp after all the unsettling they've done thus far. 

Before I buy a new set, I will need to see more than paper commitment. That things would unsettle the fanbase does not seem to phase them one iota.

[Overread]

1 minute ago, zilberfrid said:

Before I buy a new set, I will need to see more than paper commitment. That things would unsettle the fanbase does not seem to phase them one iota.

Then you'll never buy a GW model because a paper commitment is all you will get from GW and is all we've ever had. 

AoS has be a rough ride, but GW is clearly settling things down, it makes sense. Just look at how fantasy and 40K worked BEFORE AoS launched. Settled lines and in general upgraded models or alternative new options rather than straight up whole army removals. In fact AoS has been the first time we've seen whole armies dropped since Squats (excluding specialist games of course). 

Models will vanish here and there over time, but in general that's normally only losing one or two here and there and often with replacements at the launch of a new Battletome/Codex. The big removals we've seen with AoS are very abnormal behaviour for GW.

 

It's partly because AoS was messed around with; partly because GW is clearing space and getting the game in a state where they can add things and also because they have to do it en-mass to get the whole game to 2.0 in advance of their production schedule. ]

Just look at Skaven, GW clearly doesn't want all those old plastics, finecast and metal models; but at the same time they didn't want to drop them when they've likely got plans to replace them at some stage. However alongside that they simply haven't got the room to add that whole slot of production - so the models remained and they kept them on. 

[EccentricCircle]

Yeah, I'd say that the surviving order models are probably pretty much safe for the next year or so at least. What happens after that is impossible to predict, since a new edition could lead to more changes, GW could change their plans, or whatever.

For the time being though, dramatic as this cull has been, I think it does leave us in a position where very little has a sword of damoclese hanging over it any more. I could see them phasing out some of the older Death models when they release the next death army, and at some point they'll presumably replace the Beastmen and Skaven metal and resin figures. Neither of those looks likely to happen very soon though, otherwise it would have already happened.

Order now has basically no resin or metal models outside of the Seraphon range. I think at this point its just some Seraphon, and the Branchwraith.

Unless they start scrapping Ogre models I can't see much changing in Destruction, they've had their cull.

I'm not so familiar with Chaos, I guess some of the older Mauraders could be endangered if the prophesied Darkoath release comes out, but beyond that they seem to have had opportunity to phase out most resin stuff if they'd wanted to, but have largely kept it around.