Questions about Ironjaw Spells & Strategy

[Baron_Bathory]

Hey all!

At long last I finally have my Ironjaws nearly fully painted. Really anxious to drop Destruction undivided and finally get some games in with these bad boyz. I had a couple of questions before I start building my list.... and that's how in the nine circles of Hades do I build my list 😜

I've been reading the Ironjaw discussion forum and have seen a lot of talk about "alpha strike" & "deep strike". What are those things and how do I pull them off? I'm also wondering about spell and wizard choices. Before GH2019 everyone was spamming Fungoids, now everyone is going back to Weirdknobs. Is there any particular reason for that? Are Fungoids still a good choice? I'm also reading a lot about the hand of Gork "teleportation". Can someone explain how to use this effectively? Are Chronomantic Cogs still a good choice? Lastly, is the battalion consensus pretty much Ironfist and Bloodtoofs?

Any help would be amazing. Thanks boyos

Edited July 25, 2019 by Baron_Bathory

[Malakree]

52 minutes ago, Baron_Bathory said:

I've been reading the Ironjaw discussion forum and have seen a lot of talk about "alpha strike" & "deep strike". What are those things and how do I pull them off?

Alpha strike is a term used to describe hitting the opponent before they get the opportunity to act. It's going first, Alpha, and then crippling them before they can buff up or do anything nasty. A good example of an alphastrike would be going first and killing all your opponents Waaagh! sources. Suddenly they can't Waaagh! and are down a lot of potential because of it.

Deep Strike refers to old terminology from 40k where space marines would deploy from orbit deep in the enemy line then do what space marines do. Game wise it refers to the ability to deploy or redeploy to somewhere else on the board circumventing their lines/defences to hit them where they are weak.

56 minutes ago, Baron_Bathory said:

Is there any particular reason for that? Are Fungoids still a good choice? I'm also reading a lot about the hand of Gork "teleportation". Can someone explain how to use this effectively?

Fungoids are still good, they are an extra cast/unbind and can generate CP's which is huge for the Waaagh! bomb, it's not that they got worse but the spell lore made weirdnobs way better. Hand of Gork is one of the most important spells in the game and Bash Em Ladz is really solid if it goes down properly.

Hand of Gork is amazing because

• It allows us to get round being the slowest faction in the game. 
• It allows us to hit the opponent from a place they don't want us to.
• It allows us to threaten EVERYWHERE on the board at the same time.
• It allows us to steal undefended objectives.
• It allows us to get a unit in the opponents face from turn 1.

It's one of the easiest spells to use and one of the hardest spells to master. At club last Sunday I used it to put 30 Ardboys in my opponents face, Pin him for 2 turns while I scored enough VP to win and pull 40 Plague Monks into combat by tagging them at the corner of the unit.

1 hour ago, Baron_Bathory said:

Are Chronomantic Cogs still a good choice?

It's expensive but situationally  good. If you take them with with Bloodtoofs then you are getting +2" movement and +4" charge on your entire army. Combine with the new Mighty Destroyers and a few lucky Aetherquartz procs and you can legitimately have your entire army in combat on turn 1.

1 hour ago, Baron_Bathory said:

Lastly, is the battalion consensus pretty much Ironfist and Bloodtoofs?

At the moment, no. There are a ton of options which we haven't really explored which turn up because of the GBH changes and the spell lore.

Given that we are getting a new battletome Soon *TM we're also in a little bit of limbo. No point really building towards anything when the new battletome could, and likely will, drastically alter everything.

1 hour ago, Baron_Bathory said:

Any help would be amazing. Thanks boyos 

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (420)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Spell: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork

Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (280)
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (170)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Ironsunz (80)

Total: 1680 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 120

Take this list and add whatever you want, it will be reasonably solid. There is the Bloodtoofs option as well but it requires the realmgate (which I don't know if you have)

 

[Baron_Bathory]

15 hours ago, Malakree said:

Alpha strike is a term used to describe hitting the opponent before they get the opportunity to act. It's going first, Alpha, and then crippling them before they can buff up or do anything nasty. A good example of an alphastrike would be going first and killing all your opponents Waaagh! sources. Suddenly they can't Waaagh! and are down a lot of potential because of it.

Deep Strike refers to old terminology from 40k where space marines would deploy from orbit deep in the enemy line then do what space marines do. Game wise it refers to the ability to deploy or redeploy to somewhere else on the board circumventing their lines/defences to hit them where they are weak.

Fungoids are still good, they are an extra cast/unbind and can generate CP's which is huge for the Waaagh! bomb, it's not that they got worse but the spell lore made weirdnobs way better. Hand of Gork is one of the most important spells in the game and Bash Em Ladz is really solid if it goes down properly.

Hand of Gork is amazing because

• It allows us to get round being the slowest faction in the game. 
• It allows us to hit the opponent from a place they don't want us to.
• It allows us to threaten EVERYWHERE on the board at the same time.
• It allows us to steal undefended objectives.
• It allows us to get a unit in the opponents face from turn 1.

It's one of the easiest spells to use and one of the hardest spells to master. At club last Sunday I used it to put 30 Ardboys in my opponents face, Pin him for 2 turns while I scored enough VP to win and pull 40 Plague Monks into combat by tagging them at the corner of the unit.

It's expensive but situationally  good. If you take them with with Bloodtoofs then you are getting +2" movement and +4" charge on your entire army. Combine with the new Mighty Destroyers and a few lucky Aetherquartz procs and you can legitimately have your entire army in combat on turn 1.

At the moment, no. There are a ton of options which we haven't really explored which turn up because of the GBH changes and the spell lore.

Given that we are getting a new battletome Soon *TM we're also in a little bit of limbo. No point really building towards anything when the new battletome could, and likely will, drastically alter everything.

Take this list and add whatever you want, it will be reasonably solid. There is the Bloodtoofs option as well but it requires the realmgate (which I don't know if you have)

 

Man I don't know what to say, your post should be stickied! Thank you so much for all this great info! You're correct I don't have a Realmgate so Ironsunz should suffice for now. Great list! It says something about the enemy getting -1 to hit on the first battle round. Does that mean any hits made in turn one get the -1 or the first battle round of every combat? Do you think it's worth the points?

How did you tag those plague monks? My understanding is that you can't come within 3" of a unit unless you're charging them. Did you charge something else and then just kind of move in?

Seeing as nearly the entire army will be in one mega-battalion, is it best to do the one drop them all in one shot at the beginning?  Or is it best to use fodder to bait your opponent into dropping good units at the other side of the board? Not sure if that move works anymore as units are much faster now.

Lastly, what are the gore gruntas good for? I mean they're fast, but their combat ability doesn't seem all that great. Are they just kind of powerful chaff to capture objectives?

Thanks again for all your help!

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Baron_Bathory said:

It says something about the enemy getting -1 to hit on the first battle round. Does that mean any hits made in turn one get the -1 or the first battle round of every combat? Do you think it's worth the points?

If successful any attacks made against you in the first battle round, ie. Your first turn and your opponents. Yes it's worth the points for several reasons quick run down being, +1 artefact, +1 CP and reduced drop count in addition to the actual effects of the battalion.

As a note this is true for EVERY battalion. So if you take one of our mega battalions, one that has other battalions inside it, then you get 3 artefacts, +2 cps and the reduced count.

2 hours ago, Baron_Bathory said:

How did you tag those plague monks? My understanding is that you can't come within 3" of a unit unless you're charging them. Did you charge something else and then just kind of move in?

This is a bit hard to explain because it's all to do with how the charge and pile in rules work.

The charge rule states "The first model which moves must end within 1/2" of an enemy model". Notice that it says absolutely nothing about what the rest of the unit does.

So I charge his clanrats and put most of the unit in them, I then have a "tail" which is JUST within 3" of the very end of the plague monk unit, it is now in combat so it can pile in and activate. However because I tagged an outside edge of the unit and only 1 model is within 3" his unit of 40 is actually only attacking with 4/5 models. Additionally in his turn the unit is locked in combat, so he either accepts that his unit is in combat and I slowly remove the end of the tail everytime he piles in and attacks to keep him just within 3". Or he retreats out of combat and hopes I can't lock then in again before his next turn. As a result his unit of 40 plague monks is neutered for at least 1 turn.

2 hours ago, Baron_Bathory said:

Seeing as nearly the entire army will be in one mega-battalion, is it best to do the one drop them all in one shot at the beginning?  Or is it best to use fodder to bait your opponent into dropping good units at the other side of the board? Not sure if that move works anymore as units are much faster now

Deployment is the single hardest thing to get right. When you ****** up it will bone you so hard. I don't have the time or space to fully explain it here and the best way to learn is just practice and fail.

The rules say (parphrasing to make it easier to understand) The first time when you drop a unit from a battalion you may drop as many units from that battalion as you like. As you have 2 battalions with all units in the megabatt you can hit any drop count you like. Drop everything to get a 1drop, drop only your heroes then the ironfist to get a 2drop etc.

The one thing to be aware of is that a unit inside a battalion inside a megabatt counts as being inside both for the purposes of this rule.

Ie. You drop a brute unit. This is the first unit of both the megabatt AND the ironfist. So afterwards you can no longer do any battalion drops.

2 hours ago, Baron_Bathory said:

Lastly, what are the gore gruntas good for? I mean they're fast, but their combat ability doesn't seem all that great. Are they just kind of powerful chaff to capture objectives?

Speed, good wounds, higher bravery and reduced susceptibility to battleshock. You need to lose 2 models (minimum of 6 wounds) before you even have to check battleshock. Their damage isn't actually terrible for their frontage. 3 ggs is 10 attacks on 3+/3+/-1/1 AND they then have the mount attacks, as a result they are really good skirmishes.

They can also be positioned sideways in order to present a massive front to your opponent as a speed bump or deepstrike blocker. To see this, take 3, position them end on end and put 1" between them, look at the size of the screen that puts down in front of your army. 

Then take some dice, measure 9" away from the models and put the dice at that distance. That is the area which your opponent can no longer deep strike into. Combined with their speed, a run and the ironfist you now have a sizable and mobile zoning unit.

As a final note they have 6 weapons for the Waaagh! Bomb which means they actually scale pretty well with it. They are also much easier to bring into an effective position in order to do damage in the bomb unlike brutes who have a very limited engagement zone.

 

[Baron_Bathory]

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

If successful any attacks made against you in the first battle round, ie. Your first turn and your opponents. Yes it's worth the points for several reasons quick run down being, +1 artefact, +1 CP and reduced drop count in addition to the actual effects of the battalion.

As a note this is true for EVERY battalion. So if you take one of our mega battalions, one that has other battalions inside it, then you get 3 artefacts, +2 cps and the reduced count.

This is a bit hard to explain because it's all to do with how the charge and pile in rules work.

The charge rule states "The first model which moves must end within 1/2" of an enemy model". Notice that it says absolutely nothing about what the rest of the unit does.

So I charge his clanrats and put most of the unit in them, I then have a "tail" which is JUST within 3" of the very end of the plague monk unit, it is now in combat so it can pile in and activate. However because I tagged an outside edge of the unit and only 1 model is within 3" his unit of 40 is actually only attacking with 4/5 models. Additionally in his turn the unit is locked in combat, so he either accepts that his unit is in combat and I slowly remove the end of the tail everytime he piles in and attacks to keep him just within 3". Or he retreats out of combat and hopes I can't lock then in again before his next turn. As a result his unit of 40 plague monks is neutered for at least 1 turn.

Deployment is the single hardest thing to get right. When you ****** up it will bone you so hard. I don't have the time or space to fully explain it here and the best way to learn is just practice and fail.

The rules say (parphrasing to make it easier to understand) The first time when you drop a unit from a battalion you may drop as many units from that battalion as you like. As you have 2 battalions with all units in the megabatt you can hit any drop count you like. Drop everything to get a 1drop, drop only your heroes then the ironfist to get a 2drop etc.

The one thing to be aware of is that a unit inside a battalion inside a megabatt counts as being inside both for the purposes of this rule.

Ie. You drop a brute unit. This is the first unit of both the megabatt AND the ironfist. So afterwards you can no longer do any battalion drops.

Speed, good wounds, higher bravery and reduced susceptibility to battleshock. You need to lose 2 models (minimum of 6 wounds) before you even have to check battleshock. Their damage isn't actually terrible for their frontage. 3 ggs is 10 attacks on 3+/3+/-1/1 AND they then have the mount attacks, as a result they are really good skirmishes.

They can also be positioned sideways in order to present a massive front to your opponent as a speed bump or deepstrike blocker. To see this, take 3, position them end on end and put 1" between them, look at the size of the screen that puts down in front of your army. 

Then take some dice, measure 9" away from the models and put the dice at that distance. That is the area which your opponent can no longer deep strike into. Combined with their speed, a run and the ironfist you now have a sizable and mobile zoning unit.

As a final note they have 6 weapons for the Waaagh! Bomb which means they actually scale pretty well with it. They are also much easier to bring into an effective position in order to do damage in the bomb unlike brutes who have a very limited engagement zone.

 

Amazing info man thanks a bunch! Good call on the battalion drops, could swear some of my opponents have been abusing this. Will keep an eye out for it now. Gonna fave this thread and refer back to it as I practice through my first few games.  I'll try and post some batreps as well. Thanks again!