Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...

Recommended Posts

Do  you guys and girls like it or not and why?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Worm said:

Do  you guys and girls like it or not and why?


It's fine.

I've won and lost my fair share of games off double turns, but it adds a lot of spice to the system. Adds something to worry about for unit placement and melee engagement, which I appreciate.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find most AOS fans love it, and most everyone else outside of AOS fans hate it.  So your mileage will vary on which forum you ask this question on.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've had a few threads on this in the past

 

 

Personally I dislike it greatly because it puts too much power into a single dice roll. A double turn in a game where turns are whole army activations is very overpowering to most opponents. From gamers I've chatted too I've very very rarely heard of anyone losing a game when they got a double turn; or winning a game when their opponent got a double turn. 

The other, and biggest issue, is that regardless of balance of battle; a double turn means one person stands there for twice as long and all they can do is roll saves and remove their models from the table. They can't react to changes; can't move, can't shoot; can't use spells etc.. They are left rather bored and their only benefit is the alternating close combat phase; but even then they are limited as they can't start any new combats. Plus against any ranged army they've got even less to do. 

 

To me its a bad feature that really should be retired out of the core game and into open play as an optional rule. It's just too powerful a mechanic that swings games in favour of whoever gets it and leaves you little means to counterplay it. In fact the only way to prepare to counter it, is to basically not move closer to your opponent. That's a bad feature in a game that only has 6 turns of action at best and where most victory conditions are going to involve moving fowrad to kill enemies and secure objectives. Plus holding back might only work for the first turn; after that you've got to get close and if not then your opponent has moved closer anyway. 

  • Like 20

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with the standing around for two turns doing nothing being a very bad thing.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No strong opinion, I've won games on it and lost them because of it as well. It adds some variety to IGOUGO (the one thing that GW desperately needs to change and has in all their specialist games). I would be really curious to see how much the double turn affects win rates. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love it, personally. Makes games far less predictable, means that you have to be more careful if you're going first and allows for the chance of a hail mary late game if you've got nothing left to lose

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here we go again... My short answer: absolutely hate it.

Slightly longer answer: Yes it can provide opportunities for tactical judgements (taking the double when you win the roll is not the correct answer 100% of the time) but it doesn't justify how badly it can swing games and make you or your opponent stand around waiting for a chance to react for ages.

Answer nobody seems to care about: This is the #1 thing that turns off potential new players when I talk to them about AOS. On forums dedicated to AOS you will find a skew towards either favoring it or being neutral to it since if its a deal breaker they don't play the game and don't hang out on forums dedicated to it.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Forrix said:

This is the #1 thing that turns off potential new players when I talk to them about AOS.

Never had a new player at my store express any strong concern to the concept. 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate it. Not so much for balancing reasons as it admittedly adds another level of strategy to first turn and endless spells. I hate it because it can force me or my opponent to spend long stretches of the game doing nothing (aside from rolling saves and combats they are probably losing)

I have found double turning on turn 2 or 3 to be particularly brutal as those tend to be where the big charges, spells, and combats take place. 

AOS vets don't seem to mind it as much since they have learned to anticipate the effect. Its the newbies and casual players that really get burnt by it and I personally think that is a bad thing for the game overall. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, Overread said:

We've had a few threads on this in the past

 

 

Personally I dislike it greatly because it puts too much power into a single dice roll. A double turn in a game where turns are whole army activations is very overpowering to most opponents. From gamers I've chatted too I've very very rarely heard of anyone losing a game when they got a double turn; or winning a game when their opponent got a double turn. 

The other, and biggest issue, is that regardless of balance of battle; a double turn means one person stands there for twice as long and all they can do is roll saves and remove their models from the table. They can't react to changes; can't move, can't shoot; can't use spells etc.. They are left rather bored and their only benefit is the alternating close combat phase; but even then they are limited as they can't start any new combats. Plus against any ranged army they've got even less to do. 

 

To me its a bad feature that really should be retired out of the core game and into open play as an optional rule. It's just too powerful a mechanic that swings games in favour of whoever gets it and leaves you little means to counterplay it. In fact the only way to prepare to counter it, is to basically not move closer to your opponent. That's a bad feature in a game that only has 6 turns of action at best and where most victory conditions are going to involve moving fowrad to kill enemies and secure objectives. Plus holding back might only work for the first turn; after that you've got to get close and if not then your opponent has moved closer anyway. 

Games should be 5 battle rounds, not 2.   Therefore on average it should not be just one of the players who get a double turn in a given game.  

Also it is a “priority roll”.  Not a “double turn”.  The point of it is to pick whether going first or second benefits you in a given round (consider placement,  endless spells, victory points,  benefits of a double next turn etc).  In your games you should be planning when you want your double turn to occur.   When it is better to give your opponent a double if you win priority.  Etc.   It adds a tactical component to the game to consider.   For example when I play Idoneth I want the double turn from flood tide into high tide (whether that’s 1-2 or 2-3).   If, for example,  I want it 2-3 then I will work to give my opponent priority on turn 2 and play turn 1 expecting to be double turned (assuming I went first)

it also adds a neat mechanic for endless spells.   A few of them on the field and it adds more tactical considerations.   Overall it makes it a more interesting game.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thing is its VERY beneficial to take the double turn yourself and to let the enemy take it second. Sure they get a followup, but at the same time you've had two whole turns to really beat into them. If that double turn happened on turn 2 or 3 then chances are most armies are going to have two turns dealing maximum damage to an opponent. That's a LOT of damage in one big go to recover from, a crippling amount in many cases. 

Plus its just reinforcing the imbalance of the game in terms of time spent standing around; now both players have spent double turn slots standing around doing nothing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me it would be best if doube turn is only for  Nerative play and not for Matched.

 
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I think its great, and without it AoS would be a far less tactically rewarding game.  Due to rule simplification and the removal of things like flanks  and introduction of 360 degree line of sight etc,  double turn is one of the biggest strategic elements.  I think if you strip that away you are looking at mostly just push hammer.  The fact that I don't always know who is going to go next and exactly what they are going to be able to do, is one of the only limiting factor to my movement decisions.  360 degree line of sight eliminates the concern for flanks and "am I going to be able to see them to charge next turn" etc.  Objectives are the other aspect that helps give meaning and to prevent "push forward", but alone I do not think they are enough.

That being said I think they have a super steep learning curve, and I am only now starting to figure out how to use them as anything other then that "random swing event" a lot of people seem to confuse them for.  So I get how especially if you are completely new to the hobby, and/or don't have experienced players in your gaming group to show you the ropes, that it would get very frustrating very fast, and just seem like this totally random thing completely out of your control.  And it is right up until you learn about screeners, speed bumps, bubble wrap, and the concept of restraint and that massacring your opponents army as rapidly as possible is not necessarily the point or the best strategy.

Edited by tripchimeras
  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't like how much impact a single roll has and I don't like standing around for a really long time while my opponent plays the game and I watch. I have come around to appreciating the tactical impact, but I definitely think it should be more complicated than just a single dice roll. Let a player spend a command point to reroll their priority dice, maybe. Or give a +1 to the priority roll to the player who has less victory points. I don't think it's something armies should be able to build towards having bonuses in, but I think you should be able to do things during your turns that increase or decrease the chance of a double turn occurring.

I would also love it if there was more to do for the player who isn't taking their turn. The predatory spell mechanic is an example of this and I love it. There aren't many reasons to turn down acting first on a priority roll past the first turn. But if there's a nasty endless spell ready to wreck your army, it might affect your decision. More like this would be great.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love the double turn and I find people saying that it wins games laughable. It's not priority roll that wins games. It's being unprepared, not waiting for it like ever, thats what wins games. We all know it's going to happen, right? Right. Why not prepare for it? Plan for it? I get screwed by failed charges and casting rolls much more than priority rolls. 

Build your lists and strategy considering priority roll, bring endless spells, reactive abilities, position correctly. 

Complaining about priority rolls is the same as complaining about any rolls. There are games won by last turn run, 1 passed save, failed bravery test, cast spell, any roll can be as crucial as priority roll.

 

  • Like 8
  • LOVE IT! 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I enjoy big upsets and epic returns when I play with my toy soldiers  so think it is one of the best features in AoS compared to other games.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Forrix said:

Here we go again... My short answer: absolutely hate it.

Out of curiosity why you choose to play a game that you absolutely hate one of its key features? 

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Planar said:

Out of curiosity why you choose to play a game that you absolutely hate one of its key features? 

A lot of people absolutely hate double turn and choose to not use it or house rule an alternative.  A lot of people.

THe last year or so I've played in several events that had removed double turn entirely so its not even a tournament standard to use it.  Some use it, some don't.

Edited by Dead Scribe
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:

THe last year or so I've played in several events that had removed double turn entirely so its not even a tournament standard to use it.  Some use it, some don't.

There's not a major US event that's removed it that I'm aware of (NOVA, LVO,  and ACon all use it). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the double turn won and lost me some battles.

its and interesting feature, although if I hate or love it well I can’t really say. It’s somewhere between both 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SwampHeart said:

Never had a new player at my store express any strong concern to the concept. 

Okay.... Well I guess my personal experience has been the opposite of yours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's impact is pretty overrated.  Its a part of the game, failing to account for it is on you.  As others have mentioned, a lot of games are determined by a single key dice roll, a charge, save, or priority, etc can all have a huge impact.  A closely contested game is almost always going to be determined by a few key rolls.

What I dislike about it is when a losing player makes it the reason they lost.  I find the "I would've won but you got a double turn" nonsense.  

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well... I've won a lot of games precisely because I got a double turn and got to wail on my opponent for two turns without recourse.  And I have armies that can charge across most of the table in one turn so there was nothing he could do to stop me from wailing on him.  

So I don't think its absurd to think that if you're on the receiving end of the double turn that it played a hefty reason in why you lost.

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
  • LOVE IT! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...