Path to Glory Overhaul: Road to Renown Edition

[NinthMusketeer]

A small but notable update to the core rules; champions can now pick their command trait (if it is not fixed by sub-faction). This is to provide a slight boost for armies that do not have a sub-faction.

The Krulghast Excruciator has been added as a champion option. It is likely that the Death warband tables will need a complete overhaul come the Gravelords battletome so now is a particularly good time to give me any feedback you have regarding Death choices!

Sons of Behemat have arrived to the Destruction warband tables! Given their unique circumstance some special rules had to be made such that they would work in the context of Path to Glory.

[NinthMusketeer]

GW has announced that with 3rd edition they will be doing an overhaul of Path to Glory! Where does that leave Road to Renown? Well, we don't have any details yet so we don't know how much cross-compatibility there will be. They did say they were modelling it after 40k's Crusade system, which could mean quite a few different things. If it ends up being a dramatic change I will probably leave Read to Renown the way it is as a legacy/alternate system for those who prefer it to the new one. If the new PtG is more of an update than a rework then RtR may well be rendered obsolete by the variety of new reasonably well-balanced options. And so I will keep updating it when the balance remains a complete crapshow.

[NinthMusketeer]

In other news, I will be updating the warband tables to 1.5 shortly! What does this mean? Well in addition to giving everything a look-through I will be adding in more starting options. This will be an expansion to how certain warbands can take a monster at the start, allowing certain units to start off larger than normally available. For example, Gloomspite Gitz will gain an option to spend two of their initial followers on a 30-grot stabba unit. These units will only be available when starting a warband and not during a campaign.

So if you have any ideas as to what you would like to see, or just have feedback to give (good or bad!) I would really love to hear it!

[NinthMusketeer]

Death warband tables have been updated to 1.5! This includes the overhaul required due to Soulblight Gravelords, as well as the new & improved starting follower options.

[NinthMusketeer]

A bit belated with 3rd edition right around the corner, but Destruction has been updated to 1.5! Some minor tweaks, some consolidation of tables, and implementation of the new starting follower options.

[stratigo]

XD I hope you continue doing things like this for the new PtG. It's pretty bare bones and is clear it is wanting battletomes for real flavor.

[NinthMusketeer]

UPDATE! Road to Renown will be staying the same for 3rd edition, remaining as an alternate system for those who prefer something different from the new PtG. This will include the continued incorporation of new content from what GW releases (where appropriate).

I am aiming to have the third edition update finished by release day, it will include core battalions (from the core rules) and quests (from the PtG rules) but mostly be rewording to take advantage of new terminology GW has established.

[NinthMusketeer]

Quick update; still working on it. Real life hit me with a lot of nastiness this past week, one thing after another. Thus the delay.

[NinthMusketeer]

Version 2.0 of the main rules is up! Next is going through the warband tables, followed by the reward tables, then getting the FFA scenario document together.

Main Changes:

-Updated wording to make use of GW's snazzy new terminology, and as always to try and improve readability.

-Champions have been renamed Warlords and divided into three categories based on strength with tailored benefits/downsides to level the playing field between them without simply resorting to a huge spread of starting followers.

-1 renown can now be spent to gain a bonus enhancement of any type (instead of just an artifact) but it must still be rolled.

-Quests can be embarked upon for 1 renown and allow for obtaining bonus enhancements that are picked instead of rolled. Quests are now the means to unlock endless spells, invocations, and battalions.

-Speaking of battalions, most of the core ones are available and as part of updating the warband tables I will be adding lists of warscroll battalions that can be taken from each faction.

-Faction terrain is now free (given that every monster has the capacity to destroy it).

-Restrictions on summoning have been loosened and warbands who wish to invest in that will find it much easier to do so.

[NinthMusketeer]

Reward tables have been updated! Mostly the same with a few rewordings and tweaks to fit with the new edition but also some changes;

-The Veterans reward has been completely rewritten.

-Deadly Onslaught & Deadly Counterstrike have had the charge-based rend buff increased.

-Soulblight Gravelords have new allegiance-based rewards, replacing the Legions of Nagash and Soulblight ones.

[NinthMusketeer]

Big update! All warband tables have been updated to version 2.0, taking into account the changes of third edition. Broadly speaking they are quite similar in function, but tables have been restructured & consolidated, a swathe of new options that can be taken as initial followers have been added, most non-monster heroes gained an additional starting follower, and warscroll battalions have been added!

This is the first set of tables done for third edition AoS, I expect there to be some rough edges and at least one typo somewhere so as always please let me know if you have any feedback!

[NinthMusketeer]

I am now working on an overall update coming alongside the SCE and Orruk battletomes. I will be going through the warband tables again now that I have a solid base of play experience to draw from. If you have any feedback please let me know! In particular thoughts on units that are too strong or too weak would be greatly appreciated, as well as if any rules are confusing to read/understand.

[brocktoon]

I was just coming to check on this. With the two books out I think there's a solid base for predictions on how PtG proceeds from here: new territories and roughly how they work, 4 new quests (1 of which gives access to new missions), 6 new unit skills, and parameters for leveling up heroes.

 Is there any appetite for making get you by rules along those lines for the factions which will lag?

[NinthMusketeer]

A big part is that so much of what is being introduced to new PtG is stuff RtR already has. Both hero and unit progression are already covered by rewards, though I will definitely be looking to adapt selections from battletomes into RtR where appropriate. What will probably happen is that the 'reward based on allegiance' result will be rolled into 'reward based on keyword' then as new battletomes come out they will each get their own customized reward table. In RtR the have/have-not effect will be largely mitigated since everyone's units and heroes already have access to the five generic reward tables (rather than PtG3rd's single table for units and nothing for heroes).

Quests, like battalions, will be considered on an individual basis. Some are non-applicable to the context of RtR or would be too imbalanced to include. Each warband table will have a list of which quests from it's battletome are available in RtR.

Territories... I'm not sure yet. The generic territories are all about increasing the limits on types of units that can be taken, non-applicable to RtR which does not use that mechanic. The main question I will need to evaluate is if the territories are interesting; will adding a territory mechanism make the system more fun, and will that fun be enough to justify the increase in content? Dealing with GW I'm sure we all know that options can be pushed to the point of being too much of a good thing, turning into bloat where the total is less than the sum of its parts.

[NinthMusketeer]

Update still in progress, SCE are like four armies worth of options on their own! In the meantime here are some changes that have been finalized;

-Third edition enhancements will be getting charts listed alongside the warband tables!

-Amulet of Destiny banned entirely; it's impossible to balance around

-Custom stormhosts are in; warbands can pick ONE of the listed traits instead of selecting a normal stormhost

-New quick rules! A one page print-friendly ruleset that goes over the basics in regular English instead of rulespeak, great for campaign organizers who know players can't be expected to read 5(!) pages of rules. First edition AoS didn't even have that many pages!

[NinthMusketeer]

2.2 update is here!

-Fully reworked tables for SCE and OWC!

-Going forward third edition enhancements will have charts for random rolling put alongside the relevant warband tables, as well as content such as quests. The generic tables have been moved from the core rules to the first page of each warband tables document.

-The Amulet of Destiny has been banned entirely due its warping effect on balance. (Hopefully GW will errata it in the future.)

-Various minor touch ups in wording and formatting to make things more readable and concise.

-Various minor alterations to warband tables, mainly dealing with starting options.

-New quick rules! A one page print-friendly ruleset that goes over the basics in a brief manner for players who don't need/want all the details.

[NinthMusketeer]

Well it's been a while, times are crazy, Nurgle remains abroad, and GW's Path to Glory content has been... let's just leave it at 'not as good as 40k Crusade'.

But RtR carries on with the 2.3 update!
-Various balance tweaks, as always.
-Warband tables have been gone through to improve availability of 5-man monstrous infantry/cavalry units (to avoid the coherency issues of 6-man).
-Nurgle has been updated to reflect the new battletome.
-Major overhaul to the Rewards to bring them in line with the new edition and cut out some bloat.
-Scenario document updated with new options & updated FFA/Alternate-by-Phase rules which should now be smoother and more intuitive.

I hope you all enjoy!

[NinthMusketeer]

This is actually a couple weeks late; made the update for Fyreslayers & IDK but forgot to post! Mainly a holdover update to add the new hero and bring things in line before the battletome overhauls.

[NinthMusketeer]

Version 2.4 is up! This time I have a proper changelog:

-Fyreslayers and Idoneth Deepkin updated with their new battletomes!

-Inverted the availability for battletome endless spells, invocations, and battalions; all battletome-specific options in these categories are now available by default unless the warband table says otherwise.

-Moved the exception for terrain features to the core rules on summoning rather than listing them individually on warband tables.

-Expand and Contract scenario objective renamed to Consolidation, secondary objective removal moved to round 5 (from round 4)

-Improved the Savage Warmasters reward, added an allegiance reward for Idoneth Deepkin (it had previously been lost to the tides)

 

Warband Table Changes

-A large number of Cities of Sigmar warlords received additional starting followers, Freeguild General was removed from the Hero retinue chart to balance against his command ability.

-Added Grundstock Thunderers to the last cell on the Kharadron Overlords retinue table

-In light of their improved allegiance, Beasts of Chaos warlords have had their starting followers reduced back to normal

-Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage reduced to 2 starting followers (down from 3)

-Slaughterpriest added to the last cell of Khorne Bloodbound Hero Follower chart

-Lord of Blights & Harbinger of Decay returned to normal warlord status (from grand warlord)

-Unmounted Terrorgheists & Zombie Dragons brought down in cost

-FEC retinues adjusted to boost Crypt Ghouls and Horrors

-Tweaked the structure of the SGL tables to hopefully be more user friendly

[NinthMusketeer]

Realized I should probably mention;

I was really excited to dig into the Thondia content and add what I could to RtR... but there's nothing to add. The Anvil of Apotheosis is a reprint, the incarnate rules are impossible to balance, and the path to glory stuff is as bland as the rest of it. A dam shame

The fluff is great though, so it would be good for inspiring/constructing a narrative; I'll be trying that myself in a couple months.

[brocktoon]

Lovely work on this. That's mostly what I came by to say, because flogging away at a cool personal project, even one used by others, can feel thankless. You're doing well.

I also wanted to ask what you see as the main problems with the current PtG system because I agree, it feels terminally bland in a way Crusade doesn't. But there are cool bits in there, too. I'd love to use the territories, for instance, but it's yoked to a very bland system of "+1 to Reinforcements". It all seems geared toward army building and collection as its relentless focus and I think that's a shame.

[NinthMusketeer]

On 5/14/2022 at 1:34 PM, brocktoon said:

Lovely work on this. That's mostly what I came by to say, because flogging away at a cool personal project, even one used by others, can feel thankless. You're doing well.

I also wanted to ask what you see as the main problems with the current PtG system because I agree, it feels terminally bland in a way Crusade doesn't. But there are cool bits in there, too. I'd love to use the territories, for instance, but it's yoked to a very bland system of "+1 to Reinforcements". It all seems geared toward army building and collection as its relentless focus and I think that's a shame.

Thank you! I am always so happy to hear from people who got enjoyment out of this! As for the second part...

To me the 3rd edition's Path to Glory is GW having gone to a plot of land and set up a solid foundation for a home only to park a trailer on it instead of building. There is the framework for a great system, but it just isn't used to do anything. Contrasting against Crusade I believe the core of the issue is wanting PtG armies to be compatible with Matched Play. Because of that everything must fit through the lens of being the same as or readily adapted to a Matched game. Territories only affect forces in a way that can be easily ignored for Matched, quests are limited by what someone could do in a Matched game, rewards are limited to what won't disrupt a Matched game. The latter are all one-use abilities because in Matched a player simply doesn't use them, as opposed to multi-use abilities or stat adjustments which would meaningfully alter gameplay. Problem being that altering gameplay in a meaningful way is the point of having a progression system in the first place. The closest thing to actual depth in progression is non-general heroes getting a command trait at 15 xp... and that is all the progression heroes have outside of maybe being able to add a mount. The warlord, the central figure tying your entire force together, has no progression at all.

Meanwhile, Crusade has a treasure trove of unique items, upgrades, rewards, and penalties that can be applied to modify units to a significant degree. Armies have their own bespoke Crusade mechanics that affect gameplay beyond some one-use ability, and even the items that are one-use generally have far more interesting effects. Obviously they make an effort to balance them, but that is clearly secondary to rule-of-cool cinematic stuff--which is exactly what narrative content is supposed to be. It reminds me of a post I made several months back responding to a player who expressed wanting the Anvil of Apotheosis in Matched:

On 2/25/2022 at 1:20 PM, NinthMusketeer said:

Nononono, don't ruin the anvil by putting it in matched. Right now narrative players are looking at their narrative characters thinking 'this is totally fine for matched' and they are right. But anvil heroes geared for maximum efficiency will break the game real fast. Not only that but there need to be additional restrictions and limits in place so players don't do exactly that, which in turn cuts down on options for narrative players who wouldn't have used those eccentric options that way.

To me 3rd's PtG feels like a system in which that has happened, where the exploitable-but-exciting mechanics have been cut in favor of sterilized options easily set aside should one be playing Matched. I am a big proponent of balance, but I also understand how in Narrative Play that is secondary to cramming in as much cool stuff as possible. There are other issues in PtG (breakable scenarios and bias towards elite units come to mind) but the system could potentially be fun despite those things. Meanwhile, as long as the design mentality is slaved Matched compatibility it will be fundamentally crippled due to the inverted priorities between that and Narrative. Which is a dam shame on both a big-picture level and personally, as I would really rather be adding stuff to a system that works than have to write my own to replace one which doesn't.

[NinthMusketeer]

Realms tremble and armies march in the Era of the Beast, as Warlords summon exalted followers to their side...

Road to Renown 2.5 update coming soon!

[NinthMusketeer]

2.5 is up! Changelog:

General Changes
-Exalted follower tables are in! These tables of extra-strong follower choices cost 2 renown to roll on
-Finished the Rewards overhaul; Keyword rewards now stick to central themes and are mechanically straightforward, leaving the more eccentric options for allegiance rewards. Several allegiance rewards have been adjusted to better tie in with allegiance abilities and/or theme of the army, the Light and Heavy tables had some alteration to their qualifiers as well as some minor changes, and a number of new reward options have been added.
-Allegiance rewards are now organized into separate pages based on Grand Alliance
-Added an additional glory for winning an FFA match
-Added a bonus for having extra glory in the final battle of a Rampage Campaign
-Unique enhancements now have a blanket rule exempting them from needing to roll randomly
-The Heroic Rewards rule has been expanded to include any unit that is Single on its pitched battle profile

Warband Table Changes
-Daughters of Khaine and Nighthaunt have been updated with their new battletomes!
-All warband tables have been gone over with particular attention to the overall goal of getting players out of their comfort zone from time to time without being a pain or denying thematic build options.
-Sylvaneth and Skaven were not altered as they will be completely rehashed after the imminent battletome release.
-Most 2-follower starting options can now be found on the Exalted follower tables as well
-A number of armies have had their hero retinue charts merged into regular ones, helping with flexibility and enhancing the element of choice within a given result.
-Retinue tables are now clearly labelled with their respective costs in full
-Order Warband Tables document has been split into main and aelf
-Cities of Sigmar have been reorganized with greater table flexibility to accommodate the unique nature of the army and its themes. Intuitive sorting puts cool units in left column, lame ones on the right.
-CoS have also received a buff to retinues & adjutants to boost the performance of its ‘small’ warlord options.
-Celestial Hurricanum removed, Anointed on Phoenix added with the caveat that it cannot be Living City.
-Hallowheart now requires 1 renown to select so as to even the playing field with other cities
-Chaos gained a new optional rule allowing marked coalition units to benefit from allegiance abilities
-Khorne’s basic retinue table has been reworked into more ‘thematic’ categories that are very intuitive
-Liege-Kavalos moved to Grand Warlord (up from normal)
-With the addition of the hero options the SGL retinue table was split back into Flesh and Bone categories
-Killaboss on Gnashtooth gained another starting follower
-Added a special mercenary option for Ogor Maneaters.

 

[NinthMusketeer]

The Road to Renown warband tables for Skaven and Sylvaneth have been updated! Due to technical issues they can currently be found in a separate document at the bottom of the list.