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AoS 2 - Orruk Warclans Discussion


Malakithe

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20 hours ago, Malakree said:

Aetherquartz broach is a thing that exists.

I hate this item so much its unreal. Its so frustating to both players its just stupid. Exactly like the whole Waaagh!-Bomb mechanic. It's like adding another multiplicator based on luck on an allready snowball mechanic. 

Either you don't get a single 5+, relying on one fat Waaagh!-Bomb and you are mad you bought a worthless artifact (and realm, as hysh doesn't help us really besides the AB), or you get all the CP, make a 10+ Waaagh Chain and roll one whole combat phase dice, while you smash&bash trough their ranks and your opponent looks at you rolling dice for 20min. 

All games i went for AB i've got either stupid high CP numbers and my opponent is salty because of the 5+ rolls i've made or i get 0-1 CP and hate the low utility of my artifacts, as thermalride-cloak e.g. would be a much more riable pick. And thats the exact feeling of playing IJ pre GHB2019 (the spelllore made them somehow interessting again), either you get those high Waaagh! Numbers and Smash&Bash trough your enemy, or you just whiff. 

If Waaagh!-Bombs still exist in Orruk Warclans i'm certain my IJ remain on the shelve and my Gloomspite will get all the love.  

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22 minutes ago, DerZauberer said:

I hate this item so much its unreal...

I will agree with you here and dearly hope this will not be as much of an issue in the new book. Right now CP is just so valuable, not only for Whaag bombs but the new command ability is just so good and useful all the time, that you can never have enough CP. All our utility and offense is based around these 2 huge CP dumps right now, but if they have any sense, then the book will change this band-aid fix to something more sustainable.

As you mention, IJ right now has a lot of no fun snowball mechanics, you either lose hard or win hard most of the time. I am reluctant to play them just because games either go wrong for me very early and I can just wait out the loss, or I completely wipe my opponent turn 1/2 and have to deal with the saltyness. Very rarely do I see close games, where turn 3-5 are still exciting and I really hope the new Whaag mechanic allows that.

The IJ model range is just so limited and all are melee brawlers, so I can see the challenge of designing rules for them, to increase flexibility and tactical options, rather than just adding ways to roll dice more in combat.

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2 hours ago, DerZauberer said:

I hate this item so much its unreal. Its so frustating to both players its just stupid. Exactly like the whole Waaagh!-Bomb mechanic. It's like adding another multiplicator based on luck on an allready snowball mechanic. 

I'm not sure it's Aetherquartz I hate, it's the Waaagh! bomb itself. The only fun part about it is the brute boss.

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AoS already suffers from combat dice bloat. GW should seriously try to tone that down and instead offer bonuses on making the existing attacks more powerful instead.

Sadly, I know for many GW game players the amount of dice rolled is directly proportional to the amount of fun they will have.

Personally, when 50% or more of the time playing a game is rolling dice the system could use some cleanup.

Ironically, Warcry with its already fewer models has a lot less dice rolled per attack than AoS, making it super fast to play.

 

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28 minutes ago, tom_gore said:

AoS already suffers from combat dice bloat. GW should seriously try to tone that down and instead offer bonuses on making the existing attacks more powerful instead.

The issue is that increased volume means that you're going towards statistical averages rather than relying on swingy dice rolls. If I make 1 hit that does 100 damage against a VLOZD with etheral and RR1's to save there's a 22% chance that vampire is dead. If I make 100 hits against that same dragon each dealing 1 damage he's taking about 22 of them and is dead.

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Just now, Malakree said:

The issue is that increased volume means that you're going towards statistical averages rather than relying on swingy dice rolls. If I make 1 hit that does 100 damage against a VLOZD with etheral and RR1's to save there's a 22% chance that vampire is dead. If I make 100 hits against that same dragon each dealing 1 damage he's taking about 22 of them and is dead.

Yeah I am not talking about making everything 1 roll only, but when you roll 90 dice to resolve the attack of a 30 strong mob of Savage Orruk Arrowboyz the second time in the same turn (thanks to Kunning Rukk) your opponent is probably ready to go home.

Everything in moderation, I say. Rolling a literal bucket of dice every time you attack is not adding anything significant to the statistical averages after the first 30 dice or so. It's just adding more annoyance and wasting everyone's time.

 

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5 hours ago, tom_gore said:

Yeah I am not talking about making everything 1 roll only, but when you roll 90 dice to resolve the attack of a 30 strong mob of Savage Orruk Arrowboyz the second time in the same turn (thanks to Kunning Rukk) your opponent is probably ready to go home.

Everything in moderation, I say. Rolling a literal bucket of dice every time you attack is not adding anything significant to the statistical averages after the first 30 dice or so. It's just adding more annoyance and wasting everyone's time.

 

To be fair when you play that kind of army a lot you get very good at speed rolling a ton of dice.

Dice trays and set numbers of specific dice/colour really help.

My pedantry aside I completely agree. The issue I have is if it comes down to "buffing what attacks we have" it greatly increases the chance we bounce off that vlozd.

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11 minutes ago, Malakree said:

To be fair when you play that kind of army a lot you get very good at speed rolling a ton of dice.

Dice trays and set numbers of specific dice/colour really help.

My pedantry aside I completely agree. The issue I have is if it comes down to "buffing what attacks we have" it greatly increases the chance we bounce off that vlozd.

That's easy to fix. Give brutes some MW output :D

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1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Yeah...but the question is how while remaining thematic?

Hmm.... impact hits perhaps?  MW’s on a natural 6 wound roll to represent Brutes ability to tear apart armor with their bare hands? Some sort of MW feedback on nearby units due to waaagh energy emitted by brutes in groups of 10 or more?  Possibilities are endless from a story standpoint. If the mechanics are sound, GW can create any reason they desire.

 

 

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Add 1 damage to Brutes Choppas and Jagged Gore Hackas

Add an additional mortal wound on 6 with the jagged gore hackas 

 Gore-Choppa is flat 3 damage with mortals on 6

 

Then I’d pay 180 for them  

Edited by Lanoss
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And just for poos and laughs, what would everyone care to see (that isnt a giant foot or fist) pertaining to probable endless / terrain kits?

Edit: Wasn't there some sort of shaman throne or something along those lines that amplified shaman magic back in the day? Or was that a 40k weirdboy thing?

Edited by Vasshpit
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I want the terrain piece to be an idol to Gork (or Mork). 

1) endless spell had to be a huge foot. 

The other two maybe 1 thematic to Ironjawz more and 1 to savage kids more? 

Possibly something with music, like Warchanter inspired or that funny dancing prophet guy that’s always shaking and dancing. 

Maybe just green waaagh energy that lashes out and hurts the enemy. 

Maybe a Fist of Mork (or maybe Gork). 

 

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3 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

The other two maybe 1 thematic to Ironjawz more and 1 to savage kids more?

I don't think this would be needed because from a "magic" perspective all it run magic comes from Gorkamorka, equally there is no real thematic difference on the magical lore.  

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3 hours ago, Gothmaug said:

I’d like an endless spell with dual applications. When you cast it and on each subsequent round you choose either Gork for effect X or Mork for effect Y.  Gives some greater versatility and fits the dual nature of the greenskinz god.

 

 

On a 1 it's more on a 2 it's Gork on  3-5 you pick on a 6 it's both.

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8 minutes ago, Malakree said:

On a 1 it's more on a 2 it's Gork on  3-5 you pick on a 6 it's both.

Yes, one a 1 your army is cunning but brutal, on a two it is instead brutal but cunning, and on a 6 your Orruks are confused and stand still for a whole round, trying to figure  out what happens when cunning but brutal and brutal but cunning gets combined.

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On 8/2/2019 at 1:00 PM, Malakree said:

I'm not sure it's Aetherquartz I hate, it's the Waaagh! bomb itself. The only fun part about it is the brute boss.

AB just ensures some super swingy games. Quite often you get insane value (not really fun for your opponent) or you get next to none, feeling you kinda wasted an artefact.

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Now that the Gargant is in Gloomspite, I would like an Ironjawz model the size of a Gargant as a monstrous creature.  The lore says they just keep getting bigger and bigger, so there must be some that size around - too stupid to be bosses, but good enough fighters to not die.  Nobody knows the lifespan of an orruk, so live long enough and keep growing.

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1 hour ago, Kasper said:

AB just ensures some super swingy games. Quite often you get insane value (not really fun for your opponent) or you get next to none, feeling you kinda wasted an artefact.

Honestly I feel like the Waaagh! needs to become a once per phase global CA that effects the who board.

Stops the stacking which makes it so horrific but also makes it more user friendly. No measuring 15" etc. No stupid bubbles. Just the Waaagh! happens and all the orruks are part of it.

Change prophet of the waaagh! to be "while your general is alive once per turn you can activate your Waaagh! for free.

Gordrakk gains "once per game, at the start of your charge phase, you may activate your waaagh! if you do then....voice of Gork...but you cannot activate it in the following combat phase."

Cleans it up while maintaining the thematic feel and being just generally more usable and predictable for all players.

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On 8/2/2019 at 7:10 AM, tom_gore said:

AoS already suffers from combat dice bloat. GW should seriously try to tone that down and instead offer bonuses on making the existing attacks more powerful instead.

Sadly, I know for many GW game players the amount of dice rolled is directly proportional to the amount of fun they will have.

Personally, when 50% or more of the time playing a game is rolling dice the system could use some cleanup.

Ironically, Warcry with its already fewer models has a lot less dice rolled per attack than AoS, making it super fast to play.

 

Yeah, I had my first game of Warcry yesterday and I really liked how quickly it moved. I'm not sure it's system of alternate activation and no saves would work very well in a large game, but I completely agree that it would be nice to reduce dice rolls. ...and I say this as Bonesplitterz player that often runs Kunnin' Rukk.

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I’m very excited for this release I’ve been playing mixed Jawz and Splitterz for a while.  The Power of the Waaagh mechanic is something I’m keen on seeing. Waaagh energy powering the Orruks has been something that’s mentioned in the narrative but beyond Rogue Idols and the command ability it’s not been largely explored rules wise. 

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