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Malakithe

AoS 2 - Orruk Warclans Discussion

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Posted (edited)

@VonSmall I think it is quite interesting with events removing Malign Sorcery artefacts. I actually really dislike them and think some of them are way too powerful. I personally feel compelled to always take Ethereal Amulet on my Maw Krusha because it is just that good. It is just kinda unfortunate for us that Warchanters and the Orruk Warboss are left in the dirt if this becomes a more common thing.

 

It is fair about the trait, and it really depends on how you are gonna position him too. I think people who rely on the bridge is gonna place their wizard outside of unbind range turn 1 though. But if your Shaman is gonna hang back, he wont have range to do the Wrath of Gork anyways, so might as well increase the odds of getting a teleport off. If you were planning to slowly move everything forward in a tight ball, I could see Wrath of Gork being really nice. It doesn't matter if you are gonna zap a Terrorgeist, 10 Mortek Guard or a support hero. I would personally value the extra (and a significant amount) ranged MW output vs +1 to cast/unbind/dispell. Would probably help against OBR too. Don't know if it will be significant enough to kill Fyreslayers heroes.

 

Still a really solid list imo that I'm gonna build towards. :D Still got quite a few Ardboyz to paint..

Edited by Kasper

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Posted (edited)
On 3/4/2020 at 5:41 AM, Garuun said:

Trust me the mega boss on foot is not a tax, he’s the one hidden threat of the list, can drop a horror unit on his own, it is also another source of +1 to hit for the list to fight around debuffing armies. I’ve tried to fit in a maw boss but then I’m stuck giving the cabbage my artefact and dropping my arrow boys to make room, sure it would make the obr match up slightly easier but between the idol, arrows and wurrgogs warscroll spell I typically can fight my way through mortek guard walls.

Tl;dr foot boss is fine, maw krusha boss requires gutting the list, though the I like the maw/idol list, it’s identical to the one I wrote myself in release, though I’ve swapped the Brutes for some arrow boys just so I can leave them at home and still have some input later in the game.

Also on the subject of the arrowboyz, while they aren’t the all conquering point, click and delete unit they used to be what they are useful for is utilising another phase to do damage, freeing up your melee units getting around combat phase defensive buffs (mortek guard) and threatening heroes for the hero centric missions and match ups (fyreslayers and changehost) 

Thanks for the feedback, good points all.  The loss of the arrowboyz has definitely been my biggest concern for exactly the reason you outline.  I really didn't feel like Brutes fit into the list well either after my first game, I picked them because they were the perfect # of points more then for a specific strategic reason; I think I'm going with boarboyz for now simply because I'm maxed out on savage orruk models at 60 for time being (and getting all of them finished painted in time is going to be hard enough).  Going to finish painting everything else before I touch the second unit of savage orruks to hopefully get at least 1 more game in before deciding; 20 of them still have bows and the last ten I've been using in past 2 games without hands (my friends love me for this I am sure).  This should buy me another week at least to decide whether I am going to go maw or not. 

Definitely appreciate the feadback though, pretty much confirms all of my perceived downsides of the list.  If I stick with the Maw build at this point its going to be for the double monster cool factor rather then tactical reasons.  I definitely think you are right that the non-maw build with arrowboyz is stronger, but I think the difference isn't so huge that it will impact my performance a great deal given how little practice I've had in the past 3 months haha.  The small competitive differences are going to end up being far outweighed by the giant gaping rusty mistakes I make.  Won't stop me from obsessing over it till the last second before the GT though 🙂

Edited by tripchimeras

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I just wish I knew how to make meaningful moves with my maw-krusha. It feels like I either shoot it forward turn 1 and blow up like a screen and then it gets counter charged and dies, or I put it where I think it's safe but surprise the enemy is super speed and can run and charge or something and behold it's dead before it even got to do the combat phase. :(

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2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I just wish I knew how to make meaningful moves with my maw-krusha. It feels like I either shoot it forward turn 1 and blow up like a screen and then it gets counter charged and dies, or I put it where I think it's safe but surprise the enemy is super speed and can run and charge or something and behold it's dead before it even got to do the combat phase. :(

Screen it. Protect it until you can unleash it on a meaningful target.

At the moment Ardboys will mince through any other screens without requiring a hammer to do it. So you screen out deepstrikes etc. while your Ardboys slowly meatgrinder their way through the opponents screens. At some point they will have to commit something meaningful to deal with the Ardboys which you then want to pounce on with the MK, preferably in such a way that it's protected from retaliation.

In other words, practice practice practice.

I've been playing my IJ for 3 years now with maybe 200 tournament games. I cannot tell you how many times my MK died for absolutely nothing, there was a rather embarrassing game on THW stream for chrimbobo game 1, chucked one into 6 kurnoths and lost it to kill 2 which were instantly regrowthed back....So yeah, practice.

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Posted (edited)

Yesterday I noticed that there is something about the Rogue Idol, at least it´s included in many lists. And because I pretty like that model I´m right now thinking about an army with some Rogue Idol and plenty of Ardboyz. Might this work well?

Maybe with some wizards included?

Thanks in advance.

Edited by Hannibal

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51 minutes ago, Hannibal said:

Yesterday I noticed that there is something about the Rogue Idol, at least it´s included in many lists. And because I pretty like that model I´m right now thinking about an army with some Rogue Idol and plenty of Ardboyz. Might this work well?

Maybe with some wizards included?

Thanks in advance.

Could you provide an example of list ?

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1 minute ago, hurben said:

Could you provide an example of list ?

Right now I even lack the battletome. I asked just because I wanted to know if it´s any good before I go and get some stuff.

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1 minute ago, Hannibal said:

Right now I even lack the battletome. I asked just because I wanted to know if it´s any good before I go and get some stuff.

I play a RI and it's awesome for the rend -2, we can buff him with +2 save that's litteraly a flying rock

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18 hours ago, hurben said:

I play a RI and it's awesome for the rend -2, we can buff him with +2 save that's litteraly a flying rock

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- General
- Command Trait: Bursting with Power  
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape  
- Lore of the Weird: Wrath of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz  
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Kunnin' Beast Spirits
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
Rogue Idol (400)
Ardfist (120)
Balewind Vortex (40)
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Extra Command Point (50)


Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 126

I’ve been playing around with this lately. Sending Ardboyz out to play, weirdnob up on the balewind, spell portal from the prophet, and casting whichever 1 spell I need at the moment out of it. Makes for a good MW output. Opted for the weirdnob to be have 2 spells command trait(3 on balewind)  next to the rogue +2 to cast for prophet/weirdnob. Plus 3 for prophet if needed from wardokk or wardokk gives +1 save spell to idol when I want to send him in. It’s that or breath and hold him back then surprise a charge with a 20” move to charge combo from the back line. Good all around army.

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Quick question, probably asked a lot before:

For BW: Gordrakk or Megaboss on Cabbage? 

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Tbh Big G doesn’t offer enough for me to take in a BW. But that’s probably my chosen play style. 
MBMK w/ Brutish Cunning and an artefact is so good comparatively 

I feel Big G is probably best in a Grunta BW or a Bonesplitters Big W. IMO His synergies don’t really have a huge affect on armies unfortunately 

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Have any Bonesplitterz playerz undertaken the task of magnetizing their orruks? I started on a box today and it is quite the time consuming process... And then I look over and see all the extra weapons to paint now

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I'm new to the Ironjawz side of things.  Is the Jagged Gore Hakkas the best choice for Goregruntas? 

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19 hours ago, Latty said:

Have any Bonesplitterz playerz undertaken the task of magnetizing their orruks? I started on a box today and it is quite the time consuming process... And then I look over and see all the extra weapons to paint now

The time and effort required had me just buying more. I can't really imagine every deploying more than the 20/20/20 Kunnin' Ruck or the 30/30 Big Waaagh! standard package anyway so there didn't seem to be any tangible benefit to magnetization.

Also since they're all flesh the seams from magnetization would probably make them look a lot worse.

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11 hours ago, cplhicks said:

I'm new to the Ironjawz side of things.  Is the Jagged Gore Hakkas the best choice for Goregruntas? 

People use both the choppas and the hackas. The hakkas perform better in situations where you haven't taken losses and are fighting in a bottleneck. If you take losses before your big charge or if you can fit them all in the choppas perform better. I prefer the robustness of the choppas, personally. Also in Big Waaagh! the choppas benefit a lot more from the +1/+1 maths since the hacka charge bonus is reduntant and the extra attacks is better.

Either is probably fine though.

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Posted (edited)

Oi lads!

„Brutal Beasts Spirit“ spell fron the Bonesplitterz lore, does what exactly? I wonder if in my German Warclans book there was a translation error, because attacking and charging are kind of the same words in German.

The reason why I‘m asking is the following; I read multiple times in different sources that the mentioned spell grants 1(2) BS units +1  to run, charge AND to Hit in my book it only says +1 to run and charge.

I would like to make a big block of arrowboys usefull in a Big Waagh list and I am looking for ways to make 90 miserable shots at least Hit something!

Many thanks.

 

EDIT: I found the right translation in the German FAQ.  But any advice on how to utilize arrowboys in Mixed big waagh Is still welcome

Edited by Keilerei

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4 hours ago, Keilerei said:

Oi lads!

„Brutal Beasts Spirit“ spell fron the Bonesplitterz lore, does what exactly? I wonder if in my German Warclans book there was a translation error, because attacking and charging are kind of the same words in German.

The reason why I‘m asking is the following; I read multiple times in different sources that the mentioned spell grants 1(2) BS units +1  to run, charge AND to Hit in my book it only says +1 to run and charge.

I would like to make a big block of arrowboys usefull in a Big Waagh list and I am looking for ways to make 90 miserable shots at least Hit something!

Many thanks.

 

EDIT: I found the right translation in the German FAQ.  But any advice on how to utilize arrowboys in Mixed big waagh Is still welcome

I would always get the english version of the book to prevent mistakes like these.

You really only have Brutal Beast Spirits for +1 to hit and then the Maniak Weirdnob warscroll spell Bone Spirit, gives them exploding hits on 6s. 

To be honest I'm really not fond of the Arrowboyz and would prefer the Stikkas any day of the week. The damage just seems lackluster from range and would prefer to beef the Stikkas up to a 3+ save etc. 

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5 hours ago, Kasper said:

I would always get the english version of the book to prevent mistakes like these.

You really only have Brutal Beast Spirits for +1 to hit and then the Maniak Weirdnob warscroll spell Bone Spirit, gives them exploding hits on 6s. 

To be honest I'm really not fond of the Arrowboyz and would prefer the Stikkas any day of the week. The damage just seems lackluster from range and would prefer to beef the Stikkas up to a 3+ save etc. 

Yeah you are right about the english Version. 

I am aware, that Stikkas are probably the stronger Build on the Basic BS orruks, but I would like to use the arrowboys in a mixed Big waagh list. Supporting my grindy and somewhat tanky Ardboys and giving me something to do in my shooting phase. Maybe more for flavour, than winning tournaments.

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There's no requirement to use either Arrowboys or Stikkas, one of the strongest Big Waaagh! lists floating around atm, Dalton Copeland's, uses a full block of 30 each.

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I want to run this list. But I dont know it two maw crushas are the way to go. Going to converteren the boss on maw crusha to be more savage like.

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Savage Big Boss (100)

Battleline
10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (120)
10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (120)
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Units
6 x Savage Big Stabbas (300)

Battalions
Kunnin' Rukk (140)

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On 3/17/2020 at 8:01 PM, Lanoss said:

Tbh Big G doesn’t offer enough for me to take in a BW. But that’s probably my chosen play style. 
MBMK w/ Brutish Cunning and an artefact is so good comparatively 

I feel Big G is probably best in a Grunta BW or a Bonesplitters Big W. IMO His synergies don’t really have a huge affect on armies unfortunately 

His command ability affects the entire faction, including bonesplitters and greenskinz, which is nice.  In essence, the more mixed your army, or the more heavily you lean into greenskinz, the more value he provides compared to alternatives. 

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Posted (edited)
On 4/2/2020 at 11:58 AM, Karazla said:

I want to run this list. But I dont know it two maw crushas are the way to go. Going to converteren the boss on maw crusha to be more savage like.

Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Savage Big Boss (100)

Battleline
10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (120)
10 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (120)
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Units
6 x Savage Big Stabbas (300)

Battalions
Kunnin' Rukk (140)

I mean you play whatever you want to play, but the list imo doesnt really make sense.

You have 2 incredible fast hammers in the 2 Maw Krushas, but the rest of the army is super slow. You also have almost no bodies on the table to take objectives. Bonesplitterz are generally great, but they require buffs/spells to really bring the oompf, which you dont really have. 

 

Maw Krushas are generally not good for their damage, but for their speed. If you have 2, you really want to play to their full advantage which alas is speed. So the remaining army should compliment this by also being fast - That's why 2 Maw Krusha lists in Ironjawz always run 4x3 Pigs - They can somewhat keep up, instead of slogging behind and effectively be a waste of points.  

Edited by Kasper

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Heej,

Thanks for the feedback I was thinking the same thing that is mis bodies. I love the mawcrusher. I was maby thinking of boares or at least get rit or the brutes and make squads bigger. Maby less stabba's and stuff.

 

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On 4/6/2020 at 10:04 AM, Kasper said:

Maw Krushas are generally not good for their damage, but for their speed. If you have 2, you really want to play to their full advantage which alas is speed. So the remaining army should compliment this by also being fast - That's why 2 Maw Krusha lists in Ironjawz always run 4x3 Pigs - They can somewhat keep up, instead of slogging behind and effectively be a waste of points.  

What abou running the MK with some potent shooting as well as some fast supporting troops? Shooty units will give you bodies and can still "reach out".

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Posted (edited)

Hello boyz ! 

This situation give me time to theorycraft more than ever, so I'm into a BW list and want your opinion...

First one, 30 Arrowboyz / Ironfist and without Wurrgogg / Maniak Weirdnob

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Wardokk (80)
- General
- Command Trait: Dead Kunnin'
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Breath of Gorkamorka
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Wardokk (80)
- Artefact: Mystic Waaagh! Paint
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Kunnin' Beast Spirits

Battleline
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
- Stikkas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360)

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Behemoths
Rogue Idol (400)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 202
 

Second one, Wurrgog prophet / Ironfist / 4 Big stabbas and without 30 Arrowboyz / Maniak weirdnob

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Dead Kunnin'
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Breath of Gorkamorka
Wardokk (80)
- Artefact: Mystic Waaagh! Paint
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Kunnin' Beast Spirits
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
- Stikkas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
4 x Savage Big Stabbas (200)

Behemoths
Rogue Idol (400)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 170
 

Third one, Wurrgog prophet / Weirdnob IJ / Ironfist and without 30 Arrowboyz / Maniak weirdnob

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Dead Kunnin'
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Breath of Gorkamorka
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Kunnin' Beast Spirits
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
- Stikkas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Behemoths
Rogue Idol (400)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 170
 

Fourth one, "standard", who made great results already, Wurrgog prophet / 30 Arrowboyz / Maniak weirdnob and without Ironfist (but Brutish cunning from the Megaboss)

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Maniak Weirdnob (120)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Brutal Beast Spirits
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Wardokk (80)
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Kunnin' Beast Spirits
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Breath of Gorkamorka
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- General
- Command Trait: Brutish Cunning

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360)
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
- Chompas

Behemoths
Rogue Idol (400)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 197
 

So, many interrogations :

  • access to Mighty Destroyers is mandatory but from a Megaboss is kind of a tax, instead from an Ironfist, GGs are in every list (for a good reasons !)
  • I need to try more 30 Arrowboyz to see how worth they are, with and without the Maniak weirdnob (+1 to hit spell can be mandatory is this case)
  • are 4 Big stabbas can be worth over a HoG / 5 Ardboyz.. ? 
  • can we make a BW list without a Wurrgog prophet ? 
Edited by Arkahn

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