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Malakithe

AoS 2 - Orruk Warclans Discussion

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2 hours ago, broche said:

Problem is that extra rend end up adding around 3 damage (it will reduce variance however). 

Not sure how you are getting 3 damage. Below is assuming 8 attacks, +1 to hit vs a target rerolling all saves.

 75E3FBC0-3C2A-40E4-803E-90D5340ED6BE.jpeg.6b496128651b5712a8eab3a53af931f8.jpeg
 

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6 minutes ago, Kasper said:

Not sure how you are getting 3 damage. Below is assuming 8 attacks, +1 to hit vs a target rerolling all saves.

I'm not arguing about save reroll. On Mortek Guard you'll effectivly get close to 5 extra kill (best case scenario)

@Marcoangelo33 I get your point, however you must be playing in a strange meta to not encounter the 3 units mention above. It's also arguably the 3 toughest matchup for Ironjawz (did not had a chance to play against new Tzench tough but from what I heard it's pretty bad). Of course if you like the Klaw because you had  good feeling I can't really argue with that, but I can still explain the math: I'll stay with the premise of a +1 to hit +1 damage Krusha to make it more simple, and we will evaluate the damage gain in some scenario: 

First let's check the net damage gain against those specific units:

Pheonix guard / Hearthgard with +1 save
13.33333333 4.444444444  
13.33333333 6.666666667 2.222222222
     
Mortek Guard    
13.33333333 2.777777778  
13.33333333 7.716049383 4.938271605

As we all agree, the best gain is really against high rerollable save. However the point is really about using the Command ability and trigger smash and bash right? So let's check some more generic scenario, and take into consideration the full damage from the Cabbage on the charge: 

    opposing save (no reroll)
    3+ 4+ 5+
shoot 2 1 1.333333333 1.666666667
charge 2.66 2.66 2.66 2.66
megaboss 13.33333333 6.666666667 8.888888889 11.11111111
mount 13.33333333 8.888888889 11.11111111 13.33333333
total damage   19.21555556 23.99333333 28.77111111
         
    3+ 4+ 5+
shoot 2 1 1.333333333 1.666666667
charge 2.66 2.66 2.66 2.66
megaboss 13.33333333 11.11111111 13.33333333 13.33333333
mount 13.33333333 8.888888889 11.11111111 13.33333333
total damage   23.66 28.43777778 30.99333333
net gain   4.444444444 4.444444444 2.222222222

As Units will usually have 10-20-30-40 wound, i see two tipping point that would favor the -3 rend: a 20 wound units at 3+ and (oddly) a 30 wound units at 5+. This is where the extra rend would push you above average of one shooting the units (thus triggering smash and bash and the potential CP). On the top of my head, that's pretty rare, but more importantly they would also die from any other units (pig / ardboys) charging them with the same buff. There is also some army with access to ignore rend (Idoneth, nigthhaunt) not to mention that Etheral amulet is a very popular artefact wich would negate the extra rend.

 

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8 minutes ago, broche said:

I'm not arguing about save reroll. On Mortek Guard you'll effectivly get close to 5 extra kill (best case scenario)

@Marcoangelo33 I get your point, however you must be playing in a strange meta to not encounter the 3 units mention above. It's also arguably the 3 toughest matchup for Ironjawz (did not had a chance to play against new Tzench tough but from what I heard it's pretty bad). Of course if you like the Klaw because you had  good feeling I can't really argue with that, but I can still explain the math: I'll stay with the premise of a +1 to hit +1 damage Krusha to make it more simple, and we will evaluate the damage gain in some scenario: 

First let's check the net damage gain against those specific units:

 

Pheonix guard / Hearthgard with +1 save
13.33333333 4.444444444  
13.33333333 6.666666667 2.222222222
     
Mortek Guard    
13.33333333 2.777777778  
13.33333333 7.716049383 4.938271605

As we all agree, the best gain is really against high rerollable save. However the point is really about using the Command ability and trigger smash and bash right? So let's check some more generic scenario, and take into consideration the full damage from the Cabbage on the charge: 

 

    opposing save (no reroll)
    3+ 4+ 5+
shoot 2 1 1.333333333 1.666666667
charge 2.66 2.66 2.66 2.66
megaboss 13.33333333 6.666666667 8.888888889 11.11111111
mount 13.33333333 8.888888889 11.11111111 13.33333333
total damage   19.21555556 23.99333333 28.77111111
         
    3+ 4+ 5+
shoot 2 1 1.333333333 1.666666667
charge 2.66 2.66 2.66 2.66
megaboss 13.33333333 11.11111111 13.33333333 13.33333333
mount 13.33333333 8.888888889 11.11111111 13.33333333
total damage   23.66 28.43777778 30.99333333
net gain   4.444444444 4.444444444 2.222222222

As Units will usually have 10-20-30-40 wound, i see two tipping point that would favor the -3 rend: a 20 wound units at 3+ and (oddly) a 30 wound units at 5+. This is where the extra rend would push you above average of one shooting the units (thus triggering smash and bash and the potential CP). On the top of my head, that's pretty rare, but more importantly they would also die from any other units (pig / ardboys) charging them with the same buff. There is also some army with access to ignore rend (Idoneth, nigthhaunt) not to mention that Etheral amulet is a very popular artefact wich would negate the extra rend.

 

Bowing out.  Many of the things I said were not taken into your response.  

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7 hours ago, Malakree said:

Edit: One question I do have.

How are you dealing with the 3 blocks of 20 hearthguard which make up the staple of modern fyreslayers lists?

I play against Hearthguard quite a lot, and I'm sorry @Marcoangelo33 but I've found tagging the end of the unit to be very ineffective.  Because they have 2" melee range and pile in twice every turn, they effectively have 8" range in combat.  They always blow up anything that I put in combat with them, even if I tag the edge.  

But I often still beat them.

Firstly with Drakkfoot (Bonesplitterz).  I sometimes run a Drakkfoot Kunnin Rukk with a Rogue Idol, and this just eviscerates Fyreslayers.  Bang away with shooting until they're down to single digits then knock them on the head with Pebbles.  The Prophet can chip away a couple each turn with his spell too.  I don't bother trying to shoot off the Heroes, because they're -1 to hit and -1 to wound, and palm off half of what does get through to Aurics, so it takes a couple of turns to kill even a single support Hero.  I get more mileage just by chipping off a few Hearthguard with every round of Dakka, and it adds up quickly.

But this is a niche build, and pretty much a hard counter to Fyreslayers.

Secondly with Big Stabbas (Big Waaagh).  Run your screen of Stikkas forward, and run your Stabbas in behind them.  Set up 2.5" back.  That way if he wants to engage he has to bring them into combat, but can't hit them.  You hit him over the top with 3" melee.  He kills a few Savage Orruks, then you swing back and delete the unit.  I'm currently running a block of 8 Big Stabbas with a Warboss, and they consistently blow up a unit of 20 Hearthguard with each swing.

If I try to engage with them, even by tagging the ends, I always lose every combat.  If I play objectives, they just plod over to those objectives and backhand me off them.  Their army is so, so easy to play: just walk forward and autowin every combat.  The only way I've been able to deal with them is by pumping in round after round of shooting (which ignores their aftersaves), or by hitting over the top of a screen with a 3" melee range murderball.

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23 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Cool, well I'm currently running something similar myself (swapped the Prophet and Rogue Idol for a Warboss and 8 Big Stabbas).  FWIW though I think the version you are running is probably better overall though.

@Garuun might have some input because he's running the same list as you (took it to 4th overall at Cancon).

In my case, if my opponent looks like they will / could Alpha, I normally box myself in with Stikkas and then fight my way out of it.  This build is very, very good at killing something just sitting in front of it.  You can always get out of being boxed in with Hand of Gork if you need to, but by the time you fight with Mighty D and shoot 90 Arrows, you'll probably be blowing holes to move through.

Biggest decision I have is Pigs inside the box (protecting the rear of my Heroes as the phalanx moves forward, ready to peel off and get forward when the time comes with a Mighty D double move), or Pigs outside the box (giving me a mobile hammer threat).  Totally depends on my opponent's army and how they deploy.  But in your case it's less of a worry, since you can fly Pebbles out when the time comes, so I'd be using them mainly as a rear screen to protect your Wizards and then peel forward.

Make sure you have most / all bodiess in a 36" bubble, so you can hit the Waaagh button and pump up your Allegiance Ability turn 1.  Personally I needed to practice deploying a few times to stop ****** this up and being too spread out.  But an 18' bubble is plenty to work with.

You might want Pebbles / Big Stabbas set up just behind your frontlines so you can hit over the top.  Make sure you know your opponent's melee range (ask them) and set back 0.5" further than that.  So if they have 2" range, you deploy 2.5" back, so you can hit them over the top but they can't hit you (works better with Big Stabbas if they have 2" range but Pebbles can still do it, since he can take a few hits in return).

Obviously make sure your Chanter is wholly within 15" of both your Pigs and Pebbles.  I set up my footslogging Heroes as far forward as I can (without being in Melee range if the front line gets charged), so they can keep up as you advance.

Hold Pebbles back, his mobility freaks people out but once he's out there, he's out there.  He has a big impact as an infinite range threat and counter punch unit.  He can handle himself no worries, but you won't be getting any more Mighty D pile ins or buffs on him once he's off on his own.  You want a couple of turns of buffed casting before you catapult him generally.  Ideally I like to fling him off at the top of the turn (say turn 3) with a Warchanter buff applied, so he is double turn insurance.  He's also a good Hero sniper, since he can hit over the top of screens.  Smash their General on the head and your opponent's shoulders will usually drop once they realise their whole army has to do a 180 to deal with him.

If I was going to YOLO anything, it would probably be the Pigs, but usually skirmishing down a flank into something they can blow up in a turn.  Make your opponent send something good to deal with them, that he'd rather be advancing.  So it's damage output and an anvil, but also pulling their resources around.  But I'm usually pretty cautious, move everything up behind my line of Stikkas, and wait for the moment to hit that big red button.  You can generally force the issue by peppering away with shooting - you don't need to fling your best units forward to get some output.

One other tip is that I use mini mag trays with 1" gap for the Stikkas, so you can string out really quickly and easily.   Hope that helps!

 

It's obvious you took some time in replying and I really appreciate it. You're a Destruction legend and your blog is great. Keep up the good work :). Thank you!

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18 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

I play against Hearthguard quite a lot, and I'm sorry @Marcoangelo33 but I've found tagging the end of the unit to be very ineffective.  Because they have 2" melee range and pile in twice every turn, they effectively have 8" range in combat.  They always blow up anything that I put in combat with them, even if I tag the edge.  

But I often still beat them.

Firstly with Drakkfoot (Bonesplitterz).  I sometimes run a Drakkfoot Kunnin Rukk with a Rogue Idol, and this just eviscerates Fyreslayers.  Bang away with shooting until they're down to single digits then knock them on the head with Pebbles.  The Prophet can chip away a couple each turn with his spell too.  I don't bother trying to shoot off the Heroes, because they're -1 to hit and -1 to wound, and palm off half of what does get through to Aurics, so it takes a couple of turns to kill even a single support Hero.  I get more mileage just by chipping off a few Hearthguard with every round of Dakka, and it adds up quickly.

But this is a niche build, and pretty much a hard counter to Fyreslayers.

Secondly with Big Stabbas (Big Waaagh).  Run your screen of Stikkas forward, and run your Stabbas in behind them.  Set up 2.5" back.  That way if he wants to engage he has to bring them into combat, but can't hit them.  You hit him over the top with 3" melee.  He kills a few Savage Orruks, then you swing back and delete the unit.  I'm currently running a block of 8 Big Stabbas with a Warboss, and they consistently blow up a unit of 20 Hearthguard with each swing.

If I try to engage with them, even by tagging the ends, I always lose every combat.  If I play objectives, they just plod over to those objectives and backhand me off them.  Their army is so, so easy to play: just walk forward and autowin every combat.  The only way I've been able to deal with them is by pumping in round after round of shooting (which ignores their aftersaves), or by hitting over the top of a screen with a 3" melee range murderball.

Great insight!  This is a very tough matchup for IJ specifically.  I will mix in the concepts into my Big waagh force.  

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How good is this book by the way. 

Big Waaagh with Ardfist, Big Waaagh combined arms approach with Pebbles, Big Waaagh we've not even talked about (I'm playing around with Wyvern and Teef Rukk builds for example).

Ironsunz balanced lists, Ironsunz double Maw Krusha, counter charge shenanigans for days.

Bloodtoofs toolkit lists that Marco is now throwing around, Bloodtoofs Alphastrike lists (still possible if you choose to go down that path).

Choppas MSU Brutes lists, probably a lot more to explore in this Clan.

Drakkfoot hard counters to meta armies, Bonegrinz pop 'n' block melee armies.  Balanced Icebonez armies with 8" scouting moves and infinite movement pigs.

I'm loving that #AOSLyf right now!

Edited by PlasticCraic
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@PlasticCraic I think in the UK we are pretty much settled on Ardboy based Big Waaagh! without an MK. being the best IJ based list in the book, There is definitely legs on other lists but as a second tier list in the book.

Not sure on the Bonesplitterz because we only really have Ben Savva who plays it properly and he's such a legend that it's meaningless to judge off him 😁

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Yep Savva is a superstar, but I think Ian Spink would strongly disagree that he's the only one!  Rode those pigs all the way to your Masters 😃

 

Edited by PlasticCraic
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13 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Yep Savva is a superstar, but I think Ian Spink would strongly disagree that he's the only one!  Rode those pigs all the way to your Masters 😃

I can't disagree that I'm biased. I suspect I have a very warped view of who's good and who isn't...I mean I consider my clubmate Alex Bruce to be slightly above average which apparently is not the case? (I consider myself average...)

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I just love the Bloodtoofz lore so I’ve been trying really hard to run a strong list with that :P I like brutes and gore Gruntas and megabosses and going fast

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@PlasticCraic Yeah it is pretty crazy. There are very few books out there with significant different army lists. I have had a hard time sticking to just one army in the past, but I feel like I get invigorated and excited often with our new book. Especially when you see results from tournaments where people suddenly bring something almost unhead of, like the Bloodtoofs list.

I haven't even started dabbling into the fake Ironjawz yet (Bonesplitterz), but still feel like I got so many options with just a pure Ironjawz army. And it is really not just army lists, but actually playstyles. I feel like this is a massive strength to Warclans too. Where I play, Ironjawz is generally known for going all in from turn 1, and people often get confused when you play more conservative. With many other armies you know somewhat what to expect when you see what army they bring.

Edited by Kasper
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10 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

How good is this book by the way. 

Ruleswise it's awesome, everything pretty much has it's use and purpose and due to the good, near great internal balancing we see several different orruk warclan builds. I've switched off to Gloomspite last year but with the new book i'm pumped to add a whole bonesplitterz force to my ironjawz. 

Sad that the fluff is really blant and big waaagh is nothing "real". It feels tagged on so you can put ironjawz and bonesplitterz together and the abilities they gain are not what greenskins have been since ages (auto hitting?).

But again, i'm very happy about all those rules, it's ridicoulus how much fun they've become.

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@Ravinsild

HIT & RUN TACTIKS

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Get Da Realmgate 
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 
- Mount Trait: Big 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Quickduff Amulet 
- Mount Trait: Loud 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
Gorefist (130)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 90

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15 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

How good is this book by the way. 

Big Waaagh with Ardfist, Big Waaagh combined arms approach with Pebbles, Big Waaagh we've not even talked about (I'm playing around with Wyvern and Teef Rukk builds for example).

Ironsunz balanced lists, Ironsunz double Maw Krusha, counter charge shenanigans for days.

Bloodtoofs toolkit lists that Marco is now throwing around, Bloodtoofs Alphastrike lists (still possible if you choose to go down that path).

Choppas MSU Brutes lists, probably a lot more to explore in this Clan.

Drakkfoot hard counters to meta armies, Bonegrinz pop 'n' block melee armies.  Balanced Icebonez armies with 8" scouting moves and infinite movement pigs.

I'm loving that #AOSLyf right now!

I was just building Wyveryn lists at lunch yesterday. Such an interesting piece. I wish he had a few more wounds, but he actually hits pretty hard, is mobile and has a pretty small base.

Imagine him next to some Big Stabbas or Gruntas. +1 attack on Gruntas gets them to 10 attacks each... and Big Stabbas too. Insanity. He just seems so squishy at 11 wounds but I think for sure Warboss, Wyvern or Boar, have untapped potential. Such a strong buff piece.

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4 hours ago, Lanoss said:

@Ravinsild

HIT & RUN TACTIKS

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Command Trait: Get Da Realmgate 
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 
- Mount Trait: Big 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Artefact: Quickduff Amulet 
- Mount Trait: Loud 'Un
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
Gorefist (130)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 90

I only have 2 Megaboss on Maw-Krusha and one of them is unbuilt.. lol

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@Warbossironteef Wyverns are just kinda rough to find, at least if you want the oldschool model. The boarguy is much easier to kitbash with a regular boar guy and then an Ardboyz upperbody and some banner from another chaos/destruction army. You also get a passive aura of reroll 1s to wound with the boar guy. ;) 

I'm really torn atm., I want to try the Bloodtoofs build and use the hit-and-run tactic. At the same time I really want to keep exploring Big Waaagh because the bonuses you get is so awesome.

 

The list below is what I'm painting towards atm. I might switch the artefact on the Weirdnob for a Green Visions to generate more CPs for 'Ere we go (gotta spend the Waagh points on +2 cast esp. on the Wurrgog) and also the Orruk Warboss Waagh ability.

On paper I find the list has great potential against pretty much any army. You have some ways of picking off HGB/Plague Monks/other hordes from range with Fists, meanwhile you can try to zap support heroes or even deliver fatal damage to monsters with Wrath of Gork. The 2 units of 6 GGs is gonna munch stuff backed up by Warchanters and the Orruk Warboss buffs. 

Spoiler

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Wrath of Gork
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers
- 1x Gorkamorka Glyph Bearers

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
- 1x Gorkamorka Banner Bearers

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Umbral Spellportal (70)
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 141

 

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10 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

I was just building Wyveryn lists at lunch yesterday. Such an interesting piece. I wish he had a few more wounds, but he actually hits pretty hard, is mobile and has a pretty small base.

Imagine him next to some Big Stabbas or Gruntas. +1 attack on Gruntas gets them to 10 attacks each... and Big Stabbas too. Insanity. He just seems so squishy at 11 wounds but I think for sure Warboss, Wyvern or Boar, have untapped potential. Such a strong buff piece.

With a shield he's refilling saves isn't he? So 4+ RR which is solid. Chance to fail is 1/2*1/2=1/4 or 25% while a 3+ save is 1/3 to fail or 33%.

Means statistically a wyvern with boss shield has a better save than an MK at 0 rend (ethereal amulet anyone?)

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2 hours ago, Kasper said:

@Warbossironteef Wyverns are just kinda rough to find, at least if you want the oldschool model. The boarguy is much easier to kitbash with a regular boar guy and then an Ardboyz upperbody and some banner from another chaos/destruction army. You also get a passive aura of reroll 1s to wound with the boar guy. ;) 

The boar warboss is "legend" now , right ? If not, I'm playing mine again as soon as possible ! ^^

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18 hours ago, Malakree said:

I think in the UK we are pretty much settled on Ardboy based Big Waaagh! without an MK. 

Would you write out roughly the list  you are thinking of with this comment?

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27 minutes ago, Backbreaker said:

The boar warboss is "legend" now , right ? If not, I'm playing mine again as soon as possible ! ^^

You can use Greenskins in the Big Waaghh and it's pretty easy to convert one up! 

 

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12 minutes ago, svnvaldez said:

Would you write out roughly the list  you are thinking of with this comment?

@PlasticCraic talked about one in his blog! It's pretty much exactly what you think! I would imagine some other people take Ironfist and maybe a unit of pigs, but you get the idea! 

https://plasticcraic.blog/2019/11/11/battletome-orruk-warclans-big-waaagh-review/

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hey @PlasticCraic ever played against Bonereaper with bonesplitterz? Never had a chance to test the matchup but I susptect it's pretty bad.

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2 hours ago, svnvaldez said:

Would you write out roughly the list  you are thinking of with this comment?

Some variation on this with either an Ironfist, Megaboss with brutish cunning or both.

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)

Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Total: 1420 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 129
 

Basically a ton of wounds, one unit of 6ggs for the hammer an Ardfist or Ironfist. Maybe a weirdnob with HoG.

Just so hard to kill and will grind out anything on the 2+/2+/-1/2.

This was my preferred slaughter list but I didn't finish the extra 15 ardboys.

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Shamanic Skullcape
- Lore of the Weird: Wrath of Gork
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of the Weird
- Artefact: Mork's Boney Bitz
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Fixin' Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Wardokk (80)
- Artefact: Big Wurrgog Mask
- Lore of the Savage Beast: Gorkamorka's War Cry

Battleline
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Units
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)
Ardfist (120)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150

  • Thanks 1

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6 minutes ago, Malakree said:

Some variation on this with either an Ironfist, Megaboss with brutish cunning or both.

 

 

2 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

@PlasticCraic talked about one in his blog! It's pretty much exactly what you think! I would imagine some other people take Ironfist and maybe a unit of pigs, but you get the idea! 

 

Thank you

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