AoS 2 - Orruk Warclans Discussion

[Jabbuk]

2 minutes ago, Kasper said:

Yeah this is correct. Remember it is PER MODEL and not per unit, so you can't make a long conga line of 30 Boyz and expect to get Waagh points for all of them if only 2 are actually within the range. 18" is quite large though - I usually place my general and measure out so my entire army is inside an 18" bubble. 

Ok, so in fact, the models ALL need to be inside the bubble to count towards Waaagh points (even if the base is slighly out it will still count, as you guys mentioned). That clarifies it. I will try to maximize the 18'' range around a warchanter and use this at the start of the game. Thanks guys for the precision.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Jabbuk

[Kasper]

Just now, Jabbuk said:

Ok, so in fact, the models ALL need to be inside the bubble to count towards Waaagh points. That clarifies it. I will try to maximize the 18'' range around a warchanter and use this at the start of the game. Thanks guys for the precision.

Well if you place a huge blob of 30 Boyz, but only 5 are within 18" of the general, so only get to add 5 guys to your total count, they aren't "lost" just because the entire unit wasn't within range. You just need to look at where your general is (if you pick him), then measure 18" out and count every single model together = For every 10 you get 1 Waagh Point. It helps actively measuring up when deploying so you instantly know how many you will get. 

[Tezia99]

Always a great habit to get into as well. At this point, I still measure, but I’ve done it so many times I almost instinctively know what 18” looks like. Same with the 12/15 within as well. Just a really good practice/habit to have overall. 

[Jabbuk]

Hello my favorite Brutish but Cunning masterminds,

I'm having a friendly 1500pts matched play tomorrow and I wanted to try Big Waaagh for the first time. I came up with a list to try to maximize units of 10, and a lot of bodies with the models I have. Here it is:

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- General
- Command Trait: Brutish Cunning
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 1490 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 125
 

I was wondering if it was worth it to play Big Waaagh at 1500pts or you really need tons more bodies to make great use of it. Also, I have a MBoMK that I could use. Do I need the ironfist battalion or I could go without? 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Jabbuk

[Kasper]

41 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

I was wondering if it was worth it to play Big Waaagh at 1500pts or you really need tons more bodies to make great use of it. Also, I have a MBoMK that I could use. Do I need the ironfist battalion or I could go without? 

Thanks in advance.

I don't think Big Waagh is bad at 1.500 pts. With your list you'll generate 9+D6 per turn if you spend a CP before any charges or combat with the heroes/Ardboyz. Depending on how well you roll on the D6 you could skip out on spending a CP. I personally think BW is worth it at any point range as long as you can ensure the buffs by your turn 2 imo.

I would probably look into getting Ironfist. Not only does it give you another use of Mighty Destroyers, you also get another CP to burn for the Waagh points (maybe for a +2 to cast for a cheeky teleport) and another artefact.

The list looks mean!

[Jabbuk]

8 minutes ago, Kasper said:

I don't think Big Waagh is bad at 1.500 pts. With your list you'll generate 9+D6 per turn if you spend a CP before any charges or combat with the heroes/Ardboyz. Depending on how well you roll on the D6 you could skip out on spending a CP. I personally think BW is worth it at any point range as long as you can ensure the buffs by your turn 2 imo.

I would probably look into getting Ironfist. Not only does it give you another use of Mighty Destroyers, you also get another CP to burn for the Waagh points (maybe for a +2 to cast for a cheeky teleport) and another artefact.

The list looks mean!

Thanks for the input, man. 

I like taking Ironfist but I feel like I loose too much. If I reduce Brutes in a unit of 5 and take out the CP, I can get Ironfist in but I'm at 1460. I really feel like my points aren't maxed. I also lose some punch without the brutes. I dunno that's a tough choice.

Edit: On second thought, I guess the ability to have MD in 2 different spots might be more valuable than having 5 Brutes. Makes my GGs really independent. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Jabbuk

[Kasper]

4 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Thanks for the input, man. 

I like taking Ironfist but I feel like I loose too much. If I reduce Brutes in a unit of 5 and take out the CP, I can get Ironfist in but I'm at 1460. I really feel like my points aren't maxed. I also lose some punch without the brutes. I dunno that's a tough choice.

Yeah if you dump the extra CP and reduce the Ardboyz, you'll still be 10 points short for an Ironfist batallion.  Pretty much only Brutes I would toy with. But I still think it could be playable with your current list. 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Kasper

[Jabbuk]

2 minutes ago, Kasper said:

Yeah if you dump the extra CP and reduce the Ardboyz, you'll still be 10 points short for an Ironfist batallion.  Pretty much only Brutes I would toy with. But I still think it could be playable with your current list. 

You're a genius. When you said 10 points short, I remembered that I have Ironskullz Boys too.

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- General
- Command Trait: Brutish Cunning
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)
Ironfist (160)

Total: 1500 / 1500
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 113
 

[Kasper]

Ironskull's might not be a bad idea actually! They should deal more damage than 5 Ardboyz. Basically baby-Brutes. 

So you essentially trade 5 Ardboyz for an extra artefact and an extra use of Mighty Destroyers. I would certainly do that! And it's even bang on the points.  

[Warbossironteef]

Not going to lie, I feel like this list would be super fun and quite competitive. It trades gorgruntas and mighty destroyers for extra bodies, faster movement and super strong casting. Goregruntas with Warchanter buff are better than BS cav, but I usually only run one Warchanter so it cant go on everything and I can still put on the Idol or Ardboyz. The bonus of not having Gruntas is that Maniaks are faster can can move 24 with fly. Also, because I dont need a Warboss with Brutish Cunning, my Wurgog is casting 3 spells (4 on BW). This now adds activation wars debuff.  Have other people run Wurgog with Fuelled by Spirits , Boney Bitz and BW? Seems strong. 

Wurrgog Prophet (160)
- General
- Command Trait : Fuelled by the Spirits
- Artefact : Moreky's Boney Bitz
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Wardokk (80)
Wardokk (80)
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
30 x Savage Orruk Arrowboys (360)
10 x Savage Boarboy Maniaks (280)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
Rogue Idol (400)
Balewind Vortex (40)

 

1990 points. 209 wounds.

[Jabbuk]

Is there any place on this forum for us Warclans to discuss strategies against other factions? I have an upcoming game against Nurgle next week and I know next to nothing about them. I know he'll have some BoC Nurgle-marked stuff, chaos warriors and Demon Princes, that's for sure. Also some plaguebearers. He doesn't have blightkings or high wound stuff.  Where could I got some tactics info on how to prepare?

Edited February 13, 2020 by Jabbuk

[cplhicks]

I mostly play Bonesplitterz but I enjoy the IronJawz as well (fell in love painting the Shadespire warband).

I was looking for a cheaper (money wise) 1500pts  list to run.  I can put this whole list together with just 2 IJ SC boxes but I am open to making changes. 

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Orruk Warchanter (110)

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

Behemoths
Rogue Idol (400)

Total: 1460 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 105

[Kasper]

17 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

Is there any place on this forum for us Warclans to discuss strategies against other factions? I have an upcoming game against Nurgle next week and I know next to nothing about them. I know he'll have some BoC Nurgle-marked stuff, chaos warriors and Demon Princes, that's for sure. Also some plaguebearers. He doesn't have blightkings or high wound stuff.  Where could I got some tactics info on how to prepare?

I think it could be a really interesting talk. I don't get to play every army, so when participating in a tournament it would be nice to be somewhat prepared and have a general idea of what you can expect from X and Y army, instead of having to ask at the table "so what can your army do..?".

It is never fun to lose due to a "gotcha" moment where you are caught with your pants down, like not knowing Idoneth can attack first with their entire army in turn 3 or Slaanesh making your army fight last and double pile in with everything.

I think the issue is how to organize it - It would almost require a thread dedicated to each army in AoS. Ontop of that, the armies play so differently depending on what you face. Two players facing Skaven aren't gonna have the same game at all - One might face a bunch of Plague Monks where he gets blown up in combat, the other might face a bunch of Jazzails and Acolytes and get shot off the board.

I do think the tactical aspect of AoS isn't discussed enough at all. Everyone seem so focused on list building (which is really important, sure) but even in battle reports you don't get to hear thoughts and strategies at all.

[Jabbuk]

So I played my BigWaaagh! List last night and won with a Major Victory on Shifting Objectives, against Sylvaneth. But it was close, those Kurnoth really plowed through my units. A few takeaways and questions I have to share with you:

- Teleporting Brutes in the back blows. Having Big Waaagh + Shamanistic Skullcape allowed me to get +3 to cast and it felt amazing to get HoG off when I actually wanted to. But the fact my brutes were 9in away from the Kurnoth meant that I missed my charge and they were just stuck there. Don't think they're a good target for tp.

- A group of Brutes buffed with Violent Fury in Big Waaagh absolutely murdered a spirit of Durthu. I actually killed him with just my boss and the 2 Gore-Choppas. They did like 18 wounds altogether, and Durthu evaporated. I was hitting on 2s at this point. Big Waaagh is insane.

- I Green Puked twice on my Brutes to make them go go go and it felt amazing as I could guarantee my charge on Durthu. I did kill 2 brutes in the process however. That felt bad.

- I am still unsure of how to start on turn 1 when I get the turn, as Big Waaagh, I understand I should turtle a bit, just to get my buffs up but should I advance all together and try to grab objectives first, or should I stay back and calculate that I'll be able to charge the turn after? I always wonder what I need to do at that moment. 

- Having Brutish Cunning AND Ironfist in Big Waaagh feels mandatory when you have a predominantly IJ force. Being able to use those ability for free means that I can spend a CP for All-Out Attacks or to pass a battleshock test and it gives us great flexibility. 

- I also liked the laid-back playstyle a lot, compared to being Ironjawz for example where I often feel like I need to rush to my opponent quickly otherwise I lose my edge, and if he's well turtled up, I just don't know how to do it without too many casualities.

All in all, the Big Waaagh mechanic is really strong, fun and I loved playing with it. By turn 3 it really feels like you're an unstoppable force, 2s and 2s, 6+ shrug army wide, etc. I did miss SnB against Treelords and Durthu though (because they make you fight last) but the rest more than made up for it. Also, it felt very complicated at first as I had so many things to keep track of, I will need many more games with Big Waaagh before I feel comfortable with it.

Edited February 14, 2020 by Jabbuk

[MKsmash]

9 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

- A group of Brutes buffed with Violent Fury in Big Waaagh absolutely murdered a spirit of Durthu. I actually killed him with just my boss and the 2 Gore-Choppas. They did like 18 wounds altogether, and Durthu evaporated. I was hitting on 2s at this point. Big Waaagh is insane.

How did this happen? Did the stomp fail?

[Jabbuk]

53 minutes ago, MKsmash said:

How did this happen? Did the stomp fail?

No, he attacked my brutes but I had a group of 10 with 8 left and he only killed 2. 

[MKsmash]

13 hours ago, Jabbuk said:

No, he attacked my brutes but I had a group of 10 with 8 left and he only killed 2. 

Wow, so only one went through? I'm just surprised, as I'm used to playing a Sylvaneth expert, who manages to put 7 attacks on Duurthu.

Edited February 15, 2020 by MKsmash

[Jabbuk]

With last week's great fun playing BW, I have another game coming up Thursday against a Nurgle player and decided I would try to hone my skills at BW. I think he'll field chaos warriors, BoC marked and I don't know what else.

This is the list im gonna take:

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
Mortal Realm: Shyish
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Command Trait: Brutish Cunning
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet
- Mount Trait: Weird 'Un
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Warbeat: Killa Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Great Green Visions
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
15 x Orruk Ardboys (270)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
Ironfist (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 143
 

If you have any comments or advice to give me for that upcoming game, I will gladly hear them Waaagh!

P.S: I am debating whether to take Ironjawz because since he is S2D/Nurgle he will probably have Demon Princes and fight last shenanigans. Should I go with IJ instead for SnB?

[Warbossironteef]

First ever tournament is coming up this weekend. I'm running 30xStikkas and 30xArrowboyz in my Big Waagh. Havent had time to practice a lot of games using both blocks of 30. Does anyone have any general tips about how they deploy with these units?

[PlasticCraic]

18 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

First ever tournament is coming up this weekend. I'm running 30xStikkas and 30xArrowboyz in my Big Waagh. Havent had time to practice a lot of games using both blocks of 30. Does anyone have any general tips about how they deploy with these units?

What else you running mate?

I guess the first thing I'd say is that you want the Stikkas in front and the Arrows behind, but I guess you already got that 😁

[Warbossironteef]

I'm actually taking one of the lists you reviewed! Wurgog, Megaboss, Maniak Weirdnob, Wardokk, 6xGoregrunta, 30x Arrow, 30xStikkas, Rogue Idol.

[Marcoangelo33]

On 1/30/2020 at 6:24 PM, PlasticCraic said:

Personally I would say that Bloodtoofs is more Ardboyz focussed.  The one-shot teleport is used on a unit with inherent bonuses to charge, so you fling a massive block of Ardboyz across the table and charge at +4".  It's the most similar to the classic GH style of play.

@PlasticCraicI have been running Bloodtoofs since the book came out and have done quite well with them in highly competitive tournaments (see AoS Shorts Texas masters bloodtoofs, 4th place); yes you are correct ardboyz are great with +4 to charge but the real secret tech is teleporting the 6x pigs with the ironfist boss outside 12 inches; this then allows you to mighty destroyers move them 3 inches out of the enemy unit, with +2 to charge.  I then use a Megaboss on MK with -3 weapon to compliment this and  begin the smash and bash chain (with either the pigs or MBMK) and look to get 3 units fighting before the enemy can go.  I highly rate bloodtoofs as a clan as a guarantee teleport is pretty game breaking, especially with the level of powerful spellcasters that are in the game now.   The mobility on a bloodtoofs army is INSANE especially with their command ability, that mitigates the drawbacks for aggressive play.  You can go in, execute a unit and then bounce out behind screens etc.   

Edited February 19, 2020 by Marcoangelo33

[Kasper]

@Marcoangelo33 I was actually thinking about the same thing the other day. Having a 100% secured teleport could in some situations act almost like a “i win” button you can push at any given moment your opponent let his guards down.

What was your list like? Mk, 2x warchanter, weirdnob, 6 pigs and then rest Ardboyz with an Ironfist?

How do you deal with stuff like Fyreslayers or even Plaguemonks?

Edited February 19, 2020 by Kasper

[PlasticCraic]

7 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

I'm actually taking one of the lists you reviewed! Wurgog, Megaboss, Maniak Weirdnob, Wardokk, 6xGoregrunta, 30x Arrow, 30xStikkas, Rogue Idol.

Cool, well I'm currently running something similar myself (swapped the Prophet and Rogue Idol for a Warboss and 8 Big Stabbas).  FWIW though I think the version you are running is probably better overall though.

@Garuun might have some input because he's running the same list as you (took it to 4th overall at Cancon).

In my case, if my opponent looks like they will / could Alpha, I normally box myself in with Stikkas and then fight my way out of it.  This build is very, very good at killing something just sitting in front of it.  You can always get out of being boxed in with Hand of Gork if you need to, but by the time you fight with Mighty D and shoot 90 Arrows, you'll probably be blowing holes to move through.

Biggest decision I have is Pigs inside the box (protecting the rear of my Heroes as the phalanx moves forward, ready to peel off and get forward when the time comes with a Mighty D double move), or Pigs outside the box (giving me a mobile hammer threat).  Totally depends on my opponent's army and how they deploy.  But in your case it's less of a worry, since you can fly Pebbles out when the time comes, so I'd be using them mainly as a rear screen to protect your Wizards and then peel forward.

Make sure you have most / all bodiess in a 36" bubble, so you can hit the Waaagh button and pump up your Allegiance Ability turn 1.  Personally I needed to practice deploying a few times to stop ****** this up and being too spread out.  But an 18' bubble is plenty to work with.

You might want Pebbles / Big Stabbas set up just behind your frontlines so you can hit over the top.  Make sure you know your opponent's melee range (ask them) and set back 0.5" further than that.  So if they have 2" range, you deploy 2.5" back, so you can hit them over the top but they can't hit you (works better with Big Stabbas if they have 2" range but Pebbles can still do it, since he can take a few hits in return).

Obviously make sure your Chanter is wholly within 15" of both your Pigs and Pebbles.  I set up my footslogging Heroes as far forward as I can (without being in Melee range if the front line gets charged), so they can keep up as you advance.

Hold Pebbles back, his mobility freaks people out but once he's out there, he's out there.  He has a big impact as an infinite range threat and counter punch unit.  He can handle himself no worries, but you won't be getting any more Mighty D pile ins or buffs on him once he's off on his own.  You want a couple of turns of buffed casting before you catapult him generally.  Ideally I like to fling him off at the top of the turn (say turn 3) with a Warchanter buff applied, so he is double turn insurance.  He's also a good Hero sniper, since he can hit over the top of screens.  Smash their General on the head and your opponent's shoulders will usually drop once they realise their whole army has to do a 180 to deal with him.

If I was going to YOLO anything, it would probably be the Pigs, but usually skirmishing down a flank into something they can blow up in a turn.  Make your opponent send something good to deal with them, that he'd rather be advancing.  So it's damage output and an anvil, but also pulling their resources around.  But I'm usually pretty cautious, move everything up behind my line of Stikkas, and wait for the moment to hit that big red button.  You can generally force the issue by peppering away with shooting - you don't need to fling your best units forward to get some output.

One other tip is that I use mini mag trays with 1" gap for the Stikkas, so you can string out really quickly and easily.   Hope that helps!

 

[PlasticCraic]

 

38 minutes ago, Marcoangelo33 said:

@PlasticCraicI have been running Bloodtoofs since the book came out and have done quite well with them in highly competitive tournaments (see AoS Shorts Texas masters bloodtoofs, 4th place); yes you are correct ardboyz are great with +4 to charge but the real secret tech is teleporting the 6x pigs with the ironfist boss outside 12 inches; this then allows you to mighty destroyers move them 3 inches out of the enemy unit, with +2 to charge.  I then use a Megaboss on MK with -3 weapon to compliment this and  begin the smash and bash chain (with either the pigs or MBMK) and look to get 3 units fighting before the enemy can go.  I highly rate bloodtoofs as a clan as a guarantee teleport is pretty game breaking, especially with the level of powerful spellcasters that are in the game now.   The mobility on a bloodtoofs army is INSANE especially with their command ability, that mitigates the drawbacks for aggressive play.  You can go in, execute a unit and then bounce out behind screens etc.   

Love it!  Have you got any good stories of how you used the Command Ability?

My army is painted as Bloodtoofs, so I'm super keen to give them a good go.