AoS 2 - Orruk Warclans Discussion

[Warmill]

5 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

The charge in hero phase shenanigans was done at Brotherhood this weekend - was checked by a number of people (including Ben Johnson), who couldn't see anything wrong with it 😉

Did it myself a couple of times, although I was kicking myself after warning my game 2 opponent about it then forgetting to move the relevant krusha, cost me that game!

Edit: In fact checking the table it was your ij player I did it against! 🤣 🤬 I should point out that I asked if he knew about it, pointed out that he was giving me the opportunity and gave him the chance to redo his moves.

Edited January 22, 2020 by Warmill

[RuneBrush]

20 minutes ago, Warmill said:

Did it myself a couple of times, although I was kicking myself after warning my game 2 opponent about it then forgetting to move the relevant krusha, cost me that game!

Edit: In fact checking the table it was your ij player I did it against! 🤣 🤬 I should point out that I asked if he knew about it, pointed out that he was giving me the opportunity and gave him the chance to redo his moves.

Lol - so easy to miss doing stuff with the pressures of a competitive game!  Seem to recall him saying it was a good game actually

[Warmill]

3 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

Lol - so easy to miss doing stuff with the pressures of a competitive game!  Seem to recall him saying it was a good game actually

We both new it was going to be quick, I think we ended turn 4 with 5 models left on the table while one of the games had only started turn 2! 🤣

[Requizen]

So I'm playing Bonesplitterz recently, but I've been thinking of trying them out as a Big Waaagh (perhaps with a Mawkrusha addition, but still mostly Bonesplitterz). My hesitation comes from the relatively slow early game vs fast enemy armies - having Tireless Trackers for Turn 0 and Warpaint save right off the bat feels quite nice, and Big Waaagh seems to need a bit of Waaagh Point ramp up to get strong.

How have you guys found this in action? Do you think it takes a while to get to a "scary" amount of WPoints, or do you find that Turn 1 is fine as long as you build and deploy for it? I know how fast Slaanesh, Ironjawz, Khorne, and even Stormcast can get across the table, not to mention the amount of shooting that can hit you Turn 1 and potentially snipe a General to slow down the point generation.

[Andrew G]

8 hours ago, Malakree said:

You actually can't because HoG stops you moving in the movement phase. I'm just an idiot 😅

Oh ******, duh. I don't know how that slipped my mind as well. 

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Requizen said:

How have you guys found this in action? Do you think it takes a while to get to a "scary" amount of WPoints, or do you find that Turn 1 is fine as long as you build and deploy for it? I know how fast Slaanesh, Ironjawz, Khorne, and even Stormcast can get across the table, not to mention the amount of shooting that can hit you Turn 1 and potentially snipe a General to slow down the point generation.

Personally I've found I can reliably hit it turn 2. Most of my builds are 2warchanters+wurrgog which is an innate 5 on it's own, add in the command point generation and even as Ironjawz I'm getting 9+d6 a turn just because.

As bonesplitterz I suspect your hero generation will be lower because wurrgogs/wardokks are only worth 1 but the sheer number of extra bodies you put on the board should make the command point generate that much more. For 600 points you can get 60 Savage Orruks which is 6 Waaagh! points on it's own from the CP.

This is all ignoring the points gained from charging and being in combat with units of 10+/heroes, again something which is easier for Bonesplitterz because your units are just innately bigger.

 

[Caffran101]

If anything I would say that generation is probably a bit too quick and easy.

My army is almost always fully buffed by turn 2. And most of the time using the extra attack Command is usually not worth the risk of losing your buffs. So you spend almost 4 turns with everything at +1/+1 which is crazy strong. (essentially its every model in the army sipping on old school battlebrew!)

turn 1 you can reliably get off the "defensive" buffs. which help you manoeuvre about and survive some turn 1 stuff.

[Warbossironteef]

Have people be running the Orruk Warboss with Banner in their lists? I feel like the below combination is super solid core to a Big Waagh Army. You can get to a 3+ rerolling 1's in combat save and 4 attacks at +3 +3 rerolling 1s to wound with 1 CP and the BIgwaagh buffs. It's seems like  a pretty competitive anvil and a great way to control the middle of the board.

Thoughts? 

Warboss Banner -140

Wardokk Kunnin Beast Spirits-80

Wardokk-80

30xSavage Orruks with Stikkas. -300

600 points

[Requizen]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Personally I've found I can reliably hit it turn 2. Most of my builds are 2warchanters+wurrgog which is an innate 5 on it's own, add in the command point generation and even as Ironjawz I'm getting 9+d6 a turn just because.

As bonesplitterz I suspect your hero generation will be lower because wurrgogs/wardokks are only worth 1 but the sheer number of extra bodies you put on the board should make the command point generate that much more. For 600 points you can get 60 Savage Orruks which is 6 Waaagh! points on it's own from the CP.

This is all ignoring the points gained from charging and being in combat with units of 10+/heroes, again something which is easier for Bonesplitterz because your units are just innately bigger.

 

 

1 hour ago, Caffran101 said:

If anything I would say that generation is probably a bit too quick and easy.

My army is almost always fully buffed by turn 2. And most of the time using the extra attack Command is usually not worth the risk of losing your buffs. So you spend almost 4 turns with everything at +1/+1 which is crazy strong. (essentially its every model in the army sipping on old school battlebrew!)

turn 1 you can reliably get off the "defensive" buffs. which help you manoeuvre about and survive some turn 1 stuff.

Good to note. I'm curious to try something like the following:

Megaboss on Mawkrusha - General, Ironclad, Ignax's Scales, Mean 'Un
Wurrgog Prophet - Breath of Gorkamorka
Wardokk - Brutal Beast Spirits
Wardokk - Kunnin Beast Spirits

Arrowboyz x30
Savage Orruks x30
Savage Orruks x30
Savage Boarboyz x5
Savage Boarboyz x5

2000/2000

Effectively just trying to drown and outflank in bodies while the Mawkrusha does his thing. Though I'm not sure if it's worth losing all the Bonesplitterz tools just to get the big punchy boi.

[Arkahn]

2 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

Have people be running the Orruk Warboss with Banner in their lists? I feel like the below combination is super solid core to a Big Waagh Army. You can get to a 3+ rerolling 1's in combat save and 4 attacks at +3 +3 rerolling 1s to wound with 1 CP and the BIgwaagh buffs. It's seems like  a pretty competitive anvil and a great way to control the middle of the board.

Speaking of Orruk Warboss with banner, I'm trying to include it in Big Waaagh ! list.

I will try this, but 160 pts remains and I cant decide between 3 choices :

• Weirdnob shaman + 1 CP (6 drops)
• Wurrgog Prophet (6 drops)
• 3 Gore Gruntas (still 5 drops)

Any ideas ?

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 1840 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Arkahn

[Malakree]

43 minutes ago, Requizen said:

 

Good to note. I'm curious to try something like the following:

Megaboss on Mawkrusha - General, Ironclad, Ignax's Scales, Mean 'Un
Wurrgog Prophet - Breath of Gorkamorka
Wardokk - Brutal Beast Spirits
Wardokk - Kunnin Beast Spirits

Arrowboyz x30
Savage Orruks x30
Savage Orruks x30
Savage Boarboyz x5
Savage Boarboyz x5

2000/2000

Effectively just trying to drown and outflank in bodies while the Mawkrusha does his thing. Though I'm not sure if it's worth losing all the Bonesplitterz tools just to get the big punchy boi.

If you do include a cabbage then a Warchanter becomes a very high priority include. The +1 damage is super important, the 3d6 charge is amazing on an MK, it's +2 WP a turn and has the 18" CP count.

Based purely on your list as it stands you generate 3+10+d6 WP a turn...

[Warbossironteef]

3 hours ago, Requizen said:

 

Good to note. I'm curious to try something like the following:

Megaboss on Mawkrusha - General, Ironclad, Ignax's Scales, Mean 'Un
Wurrgog Prophet - Breath of Gorkamorka
Wardokk - Brutal Beast Spirits
Wardokk - Kunnin Beast Spirits

Arrowboyz x30
Savage Orruks x30
Savage Orruks x30
Savage Boarboyz x5
Savage Boarboyz x5

2000/2000

Effectively just trying to drown and outflank in bodies while the Mawkrusha does his thing. Though I'm not sure if it's worth losing all the Bonesplitterz tools just to get the big punchy boi.

Rogue Idol can play a similar role. Not a hero, so not as strong, but he does benefit from the BS spells. I think the +1+1 on the Savage Orruks might be worth losing the BS bonuses, but it's something you'd have to test.

 

[Warbossironteef]

Facing Gortek this weekend for the first time with the below list. Any advice or tips for facing that stupid dwarf? He is so frightening in combat. I think he would chop through my +3 armor 30 Orruks pretty quickly.

 

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!
LEADERS
Wurrgog Prophet (160)
Orruk Warboss (140)
-Waagh Banner
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Wardokk (80)
Wardokk (80)
UNITS
30 x Savage Orruks (300)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
BEHEMOTHS
Rogue Idol (400)
ENDLESS SPELLS / TERRAIN / COMMAND POINTS
Balewind Vortex (40)
TOTAL: 1990/2000

Edited January 22, 2020 by Warbossironteef

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Warbossironteef said:

Rogue Idol can play a similar role. Not a hero, so not as strong, but he does benefit from the BS spells. I think the +1+1 on the Savage Orruks might be worth losing the BS bonuses, but it's something you'd have to test.

@Requizen

If you take a rogue idol you DEFINITELY want a warchanter, it has both Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz keywords you can put the +1 damage on it and it can benefit from the 3d6 charge.

[TALegion]

@Warbossironteef I've run the warboss a few times in a Big Waaagh list, but I was using only IJ units. He provides a large buff for affected units, but I found it somewhat difficult to keep 2+ full units wholly within 15"/18" of him after charges and piling in. He was especially effective with Ardboyz in BW because it mades them hit and wound on 2s, rerolling 1s to wound, with 3 attacks each. With +1 damage, they can shred most things with ease

[Kasper]

13 hours ago, Arkahn said:

Speaking of Orruk Warboss with banner, I'm trying to include it in Big Waaagh ! list.

I will try this, but 160 pts remains and I cant decide between 3 choices :

• Weirdnob shaman + 1 CP (6 drops)
• Wurrgog Prophet (6 drops)
• 3 Gore Gruntas (still 5 drops)

Any ideas ?

Allegiance: Big Waaagh!

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner

Battleline
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (180)

Battalions
Ironfist (160)

Total: 1840 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 123
 

I've been running this exact list for 10ish games by now and feel it is very strong. I've opt'd for the Weirdnob + 1 CP. My Weirdnob has the Green Visions to grant some extra CPs for generating Big Waagh points, but also the Waagh Banner CA. All out defense on the Maw Krusha is also very nice. 

Adding an extra attack on the Ardboyz or Gore Gruntas when they're also buffed by the Warchanter is simply insane. 6 GGs will chew through anything. I did the math and they should on average kill a Vampire Lord on Zombie Dragon with 3+ ethereal save, rolling all saves (cogs).

[Caffran101]

6 hours ago, TALegion said:

@Warbossironteef I've run the warboss a few times in a Big Waaagh list, but I was using only IJ units. He provides a large buff for affected units, but I found it somewhat difficult to keep 2+ full units wholly within 15"/18" of him after charges and piling in. He was especially effective with Ardboyz in BW because it mades them hit and wound on 2s, rerolling 1s to wound, with 3 attacks each. With +1 damage, they can shred most things with ease

His warscroll hasn't been updated to be "wholly" within (unless it's been FAQ'ed) somewhere.

So you would only need one model from the unit to be close enough to him.

[Warmill]

1 hour ago, Caffran101 said:

His warscroll hasn't been updated to be "wholly" within (unless it's been FAQ'ed) somewhere.

So you would only need one model from the unit to be close enough to him.

It does say wholly within on the warscroll in azyr but man I really do need to try the boss soon! 🤔

[TALegion]

1 hour ago, Caffran101 said:

His warscroll hasn't been updated to be "wholly" within (unless it's been FAQ'ed) somewhere.

So you would only need one model from the unit to be close enough to him.

Good call - I've been playing aura wrong. That's much easier to accomplish for the rerolling 1s.

In that case, it may make sense to stick the boss close to a center ardboy unit with units to the left and right of him. This would keep the ardboyz in waaagh range while everything else toes-in the aura for the rerolls.

EDIT: It does say wholly within for both the 16" reroll 1s to wound and the 18" waaagh. Nevermind

Edited January 23, 2020 by TALegion

[Caffran101]

1 minute ago, Warmill said:

It does say wholly within on the warscroll in azyr but man I really do need to try the boss soon! 🤔

So they updated the Azyr one, but not the one on the GW website? Urg - honestly.

[Warbossironteef]

It's in the Destruction FAQ

Edited January 23, 2020 by Warbossironteef

[Spears]

On 1/20/2020 at 7:56 PM, Malakree said:

 It's also important because even if you "die" halfway through wounds aren't allocated to models until after all attacks have been made. So if the opponent has 200 attacks to make and the first 10 kill you they still need to make the other 190 to since you can reflect mortal wounds off them.

Are you sure about this bit? You  allocate wounds one at a time to a unit, you then make the saving throw before moving onto the next wound until the model is slain. In many cases this is largely irrelevant so all the saves are thrown at once but in this example you would roll saves until you fail 10, you don't make save rolls for the remaining 190.

[whispersofblood]

 

25 minutes ago, Spears said:

Are you sure about this bit? You  allocate wounds one at a time to a unit, you then make the saving throw before moving onto the next wound until the model is slain. In many cases this is largely irrelevant so all the saves are thrown at once but in this example you would roll saves until you fail 10, you don't make save rolls for the remaining 190.

Its a problem with the limited language of the rules. You actually allocate dmg one at a time, not wounds. And remove models who receive dmg = their wounds characteristic.
 

Its why Horrors are much easier to deal with then people think. IF you do 35 dmg to a unit of 10 pinks you remove 10 pinks, 20 blues, 5 brimestones. Since they are placed when the model is slain so there for the next allocation of dmg.

[Spears]

12 minutes ago, whispersofblood said:

 

Its a problem with the limited language of the rules. You actually allocate dmg one at a time, not wounds. And remove models who receive dmg = their wounds characteristic.
 

Its why Horrors are much easier to deal with then people think. IF you do 35 dmg to a unit of 10 pinks you remove 10 pinks, 20 blues, 5 brimestones. Since they are placed when the model is slain so there for the next allocation of dmg.

Ah I have jumped around the core rules,  my mistake.

[PlasticCraic]

On 1/22/2020 at 5:03 PM, Kasper said:

Tyrants of Blood is certainly a thing that I didnt take into account and is very real. Sisters doesnt seem to be used that often and Yhetees and Bonegrinder is just grasping at straws. Nobody uses those.

Locus of Diversion is irrelevant. If you sit outside of 3” of a Keeper, it doesnt matter if you fight at the end of the combat phase, since the Keeper cant pile in at all due to being outside of 3”, hence not in combat. So you will be attacking the Keeper first, obviously assuming you didnt put it into combat with some other unit, but even then you could potentially place the MK so he has to pile away from it.

I mean I don't need to grasp at straws, I'd proven my point that 6" pile ins are already a  part of Activation Wars with Tyrants of Blood. You might want to check the results for London GT too, that was recently won with a heap of Sisters of Slaughter.

If you want another example, the Squigalanche Battalion gives the whole army a 6" pile in. Ben Johnson went 4-1 with that, and so did James Chalmers, so it's no joke. 

You're right about Locus, that's actually a good example of part of Activation Wars that you will ignore. My bad. 

However you will not be ignoring things like Fyreslayers fighting first and then fighting again on their turn, blasting you off the table before you'll get a chance to react. They are still activating multiple times before you get to activate at all, I.e. Activation Wars. 

Another one you wouldn't ignore is Alvagr Rune Tokens: when they charge you, they can activate against you again and again before you get to activate at all, I.e. Activation Wars 

So it really is a huge exaggeration to say you can "effectively ignore the whole activation  wars". Piling in from outside of 3" is already around, and it's not the end of Activation Wars, it's part of it.