Warcry- Iron Golems Discussion

[Avindskjold]

1 hour ago, Zamik said:

Has anyone gotten any games in with the Golems yet?

I’ve played with them twice against the Untamed Beasts in demo games. 

In my first game, we drew the Isolated victory condition. I was the defender. My opponent got to choose one of my battlegroups that started on the board - I could only use that one for the battle. The caveat was my opponent had to kill all of the fighters in that group by turn 3, or I won. 

 Luckily for me, he picked my shield, which was the Signifier and two shield legionaries. I hid them behind a piece of terrain in a corner of the battlefield for two rounds. My opponent burned the first two rounds just getting to me. By the end of the third battle round, I had slain a plainsrunner that came too close and dealt a couple blows on the rocktusk prowler. Nothing else managed to come within striking distance, save for the first fang’s ranged attacks. The signifier’s +1 toughness ability was invaluable when the prowler got into combat.

My second game, the victory condition had a comet fall onto a random quarter or center of the battlefield in the 2nd round. Whoever controlled the objective at the end of the 3rd round won. It ended up falling on a quarter closer to my opponent’s edge, but fortunately, the deployment had my shield come onto the board in that quarter (I used the same signifier/shield legionaries combination in my shield for this match).

I moved my shield onto the objective while the rest of our warbands skirmished and jockeyed for position. By the end of the game I had my two shield legionaries within an inch of the objective to one of my opponent’s fighters. He had another two nearby. I lost the signifier in the following melee. I’m pretty sure the rulebook counts fighters within 3” of objectives to be controlling it, so this would have been a loss for me, in hindsight. My other fighters couldn't have gotten to the objective in time to make a difference.

All in all, the Signifier/shield battlegroup was a big part of my strategy in both games. I’d like to play some more games with different victory conditions and see how the rest of the warband stacks up when more takedowns are required. The drillmaster did some good work in my second game, taking out a preytaker as soon as it arrived on the battlefield and another fighter later on in the game.

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Aristo

[Nin Win]

I've played against them with legions of nagash.  They were both faster and stronger/more elite than me, but I had numbers.  It ended up being very close but me returning fighters closer to the action with the necromancer was the only thing that gave me a win.

The prefector can't survive outnumbered.  He can dish a lot of damage out with that hammer, but he can't hold the line on his own.  My opponent basically tried to hold a choke point with just him at one point and he got dragged down in two activation.  The legionaires with shields would have been a better choice to double move there.

Having played games where the twist messes with toughness or strength, I think the Signifier might actually be very powerful.   It's certainly possible that lots of warbands already have a preponderence of S3 so it seems like going up one higher toughness isn't good against their attacks (as it changes nothing, they still need 5+) but it seems to me that the fighters within the warbands that have a lot of S3 who also have good damage output are not S3.  They're the special fighters that are not just basic grunts. 

So the Signifier might not do much to help your fighters deal with skeletons with swords, but it's the grave guard with the S4 and S5 halberds and the cursed blade abilities that you really want to have hit equal or lower strength.  They do a ton of damage.  Similarly a grot might not be impacted by the ability, but those nasty squigs certainly are.

Throwing bolas is actually pretty good.  There have been loads of times in the games I've played where I get my guys knocked down to 1 or 2 health left.  A ranged attack that doesn't take an activation is actually really good.  Especially when you know it can take out a fighter.  It's also good though to just send out some attrition on undamaged targets early on.

Edited August 6, 2019 by Nin Win

[Antonio Rodrigues]

1 hour ago, Nin Win said:

I've played against them with legions of nagash.  They were both faster and stronger/more elite than me, but I had numbers.  It ended up being very close but me returning fighters closer to the action with the necromancer was the only thing that gave me a win.

The prefector can't survive outnumbered.  He can dish a lot of damage out with that hammer, but he can't hold the line on his own.  My opponent basically tried to hold a choke point with just him at one point and he got dragged down in two activation.  The legionaires with shields would have been a better choice to double move there.

Having played games where the twist messes with toughness or strength, I think the Signifier might actually be very powerful.   It's certainly possible that lots of warbands already have a preponderence of S3 so it seems like going up one higher toughness isn't good against their attacks (as it changes nothing, they still need 5+) but it seems to me that the fighters within the warbands that have a lot of S3 who also have good damage output are not S3.  They're the special fighters that are not just basic grunts. 

So the Signifier might not do much to help your fighters deal with skeletons with swords, but it's the grave guard with the S4 and S5 halberds and the cursed blade abilities that you really want to have hit equal or lower strength.  They do a ton of damage.  Similarly a grot might not be impacted by the ability, but those nasty squigs certainly are.

Throwing bolas is actually pretty good.  There have been loads of times in the games I've played where I get my guys knocked down to 1 or 2 health left.  A ranged attack that doesn't take an activation is actually really good.  Especially when you know it can take out a fighter.  It's also good though to just send out some attrition on undamaged targets early on.

Thanks for the comprehensive report! 👏👏👏👏

Would you mind sharing the warband list/roster you used - apart from the signifier and the two shield legionaries?

thanks!

AJ

[FaBa]

Aloha

I played now around 10 games with these guys only against untamed beasts.

First of all i noticed was, that the dwarf is to slow at all .... in our games it was all about moving around an the dwarf is for that kind of gameplay absolutely too slow

The Oger is a massive beast ... nobody will attack him because of his high toughness and high amount of HP so you just field him because of his dmg... his ability is also quite good and to be honest the same as the untamed beast have with their .... lion (?) type of thing .... but the main advantage is here, that he hase a move characteristic of 8 and not 4! This means the change to bring the flat damage from your ability to where you want/need it is much higher with the lion than with your oger. Because of this i lost my game againt my girlfriend yesterday 😭

In my opinion, the one which really shines in the roster of the iron golems is the *have a look to the names* Drillmaster!
To have an overview of the attributes of all chars: 

As you can see the Drillmaster cost the same as the Prefector (the guy in the middle of the last row) has overall the quite the same stats except you get +1 move  (which is awsome)/ + 1A  / a seconde range attack (could be handy sometimes) an just sacrifice 1 crit dmg which is compensatet in my opinion by the +1 A! 

And the skill from the drillmaster is really badass! .. okay it costs a quad ... but every enemy model suffers the amount of the quad as dmg in a circle of 3" around the Drillmaster.... BÄM ^^ 

And that makes me a little sad ... because you only have 9! different characters in the warband and one have to be the leader ... so you only have 8. And you still have some crappy choices
I mean ... if you give him such a big hammer like the leader ... why not giving him strength 5 ... and the ability which only both of them use (the black skull... star ...thing) gives them a dmg boost for ... lets say +1/+1 ... would be quite more potent ....

 

But after all ... i like the game ... i like the warband... but if you want to play competetive you really need more boxes of iron golems

 

 

 

[Nin Win]

On 8/6/2019 at 7:17 PM, Antonio Rodrigues said:

Thanks for the comprehensive report! 👏👏👏👏

Would you mind sharing the warband list/roster you used - apart from the signifier and the two shield legionaries?

thanks!

AJ

I was running necromancer, 3 grave guard 9 skeletons.  Opponent was running the Iron Golems starter with the prefector hammer guy and the basic guy with the flail instead of two hammers.

[Acid_Nine]

Yea, I think I am going to replace the dorf with a Bola legionare. he's a bit faster and does the same amount of damage more or less, but so far I seen the dwarf to jack and diddly in almost every battle report orgame I played except the miniwargaming vid. 

[Grimrock]

The dwarf actually won the game in my first match. It was lagging behind sure, but that kept it alive long enough to rush forward and scoop up the treasure right at the end of the third round after the ogre carrying it died. He was even alive with 2 health left after an early game harpoon throw so if he had been a legionnaire it would have been game over.

[B.C.D.]

What do you guys think of running a Dominar, a Signifier and 3x Ogor Breachers? 1000points on the nose

[Lior'Lec]

     @B.C.D. I think you’ll be too low on bodies unless your opponent is also running a highly elite team as well. From what I’ve seen in play the best warbands tend to have a mix of both strong elites and cheaper horde units. Admittedly, I haven’t played as many games or with as many factions as some of the others on here so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

[Zamik]

On 8/8/2019 at 2:03 AM, FaBa said:

😭In my opinion, the one which really shines in the roster of the iron golems is the *have a look to the names* Drillmaster!
As you can see the Drillmaster cost the same as the Prefector (the guy in the middle of the last row) has overall the quite the same stats except you get +1 move  (which is awsome)/ + 1A  / a seconde range attack (could be handy sometimes) an just sacrifice 1 crit dmg which is compensatet in my opinion by the +1 A! 

And the skill from the drillmaster is really badass! .. okay it costs a quad ... but every enemy model suffers the amount of the quad as dmg in a circle of 3" around the Drillmaster.... BÄM ^^ 

And that makes me a little sad ... because you only have 9! different characters in the warband and one have to be the leader ... so you only have 8. And you still have some crappy choices
I mean ... if you give him such a big hammer like the leader ... why not giving him strength 5 ... and the ability which only both of them use (the black skull... star ...thing) gives them a dmg boost for ... lets say +1/+1 ... would be quite more potent ....

 

But after all ... i like the game ... i like the warband... but if you want to play competetive you really need more boxes of iron golems

 

 

 

It really annoys me that the Armator doesn't get a unique ability of his own. It's not even worth having him throw bolas. I'm already looking for proxies for additional Drillmasters because speed counts! I lost a game this weekend to my friend's Cypher Lords because the last person I had to kill in his Dagger burned a quad to leap up on the bell tower in round 4, and there was nothing I could do about it!

[Shearl]

I've played a few games so far with my Iron Golems.

The ogor is great, he does good damage reliably and your opponent is often afraid to tangle with him. 

My issues with the warband stem mostly from the fact our quad is situational, while several other warbands' quads are usable by all their units. The other is that I feel our Dominar is kinda underwhelming, I feel like he should either have an extra attack or toughness.

[FaBa]

Aloha

Somebody did a math video about the iron golems .... pls keep in mind.... not all of his numbers seems to be correct.

But he comes to the same conclusion as i when he is talking about the Drillmaster compared to others ...
 

 

[Azlak the Damned]

On 8/8/2019 at 4:37 PM, Acid_Nine said:

Yea, I think I am going to replace the dorf with a Bola legionare. he's a bit faster and does the same amount of damage more or less, but so far I seen the dwarf to jack and diddly in almost every battle report orgame I played except the miniwargaming vid. 

I wouldn't underestimate the Armator. In the 3 games I've played he's wiped out an enemy model each time. In the last game I played he killed two Untamed Beasts in one activation, dealing 9 and 13 wounds. I usually burn a double to give him 5 attacks, and with damage 1/4 those crits really do damage to the enemy.

[TribalFox]

His mouv characteristic is a bit weak, this is his true weakness imo. In addition the Iron Golems have already some solid degat dealer profile (Ogor, Dominar, DrillMaster) and some good and cheap peon (legionnaries). Armator seems to be thorn betwen this two roles, and we generally like more the specialsed profiles. He is the 1st i will replaced when i will get a second box of iron golem.

 

(excuse my english, i'm a french user ^^)

[RaiderX]

You'd do well with any fighters if you roll that many crit.

Points for stat wise The Armator is amongs the worst fighters in the game, with no ability on top. And his sluggish 3" MV certainly didn't help.

[Acid_Nine]

Honestly the last two times I played these guys I feel like I was missing something. I don't know if it was numbers or attacks, but for some reason I just thought it was wierd.

Maybe it's too many points on slow models like ogers or dwarfs in a heavy movement games, or lacking the extra couple guys to do work. Maybe I should try to get my hands on another drill master or two.

[Azlak the Damned]

On 8/16/2019 at 3:21 PM, RaiderX said:

You'd do well with any fighters if you roll that many crit.

Points for stat wise The Armator is amongs the worst fighters in the game, with no ability on top. And his sluggish 3" MV certainly didn't help.

I'll keep in the mix. I like having variation in my warband. Generally my opponents tend to go for my Leader, Drillmaster etc and ignore the Armator, so I can normally sneak him in for a couple of decent attacks.

[Gobsmakka]

On 8/16/2019 at 10:21 AM, RaiderX said:

Points for stat wise The Armator is amongs the worst fighters in the game

Was this supposed to be a joke? 

[Lior'Lec]

     Have a some edge highlighting and finishing touches to do but these babies will be done and ready for combat this evening. Should’ve been finished with them a week ago buuuut... I hated my first paint scheme so decided to strip them and start over (even though it looked great in my head). Now I just gotta decide which warband to start on next...

Edited August 23, 2019 by Lior'Lec
Typo

[RaiderX]

16 hours ago, Gobsmakka said:

Was this supposed to be a joke? 

Do explain why you think he's good.

[Gobsmakka]

I mean, if you  said he was a bad points for stats it should be on you to support your assertion, but lets work through this together anyway.

The armator is above average in every category except movement.
1. He is 7.5 points per wound, The average game-wide is 8.63 with a standard deviation of 2.21
2. If you calculate the average damage from attacks and the probabilities of damage from S2-S5 attacks along with the distribution of the various strength values against Toughness 4 (which he is) you get to a figure of 10.75 Average attacks to kill, and devide his points by this you get 8.37 points per average attack to kill. The average in the game is 9.99 with a standard deviation of 2.33. He is above average in effective durability for the points.
3. In terms of average damage output he is above average (slightly). given the distribution in game between the various toughness levels his damage output averages at 4.06, the average in the game is 4.03 with a standard deviation of 1.95.
4. His points per average damage output is one of the absolute best in the game at 22.16 points per average damage. The average in the game is 37.8 with a standard deviation of 15.53

The literal only drawback is move 3. He stacks up well even against other move 3 fighters in points per durability and damage metrics and notably is above average in all categories.

[RaiderX]

At 1 damage min he won't be killing anything unless he crit, which made his S4 completely pointless

At 90 points he is more expensive than many sub-100 fighters

When you look at the other warband, you can see they had much better and cheaper sub-100 fighter in comparison : Venomblood, Spear cabalist, Mindbound, and even the Awakened One, because they're so cheap.

The only 2 good thing about him is that he had 12 wound, which allow in to take 1 or 2 more hit, and he's the only sub-100 hitter for the Iron golem.

So he's :

-Expensive

-Range 1

-Slow and took age to get into combat

-Had to rely on crit just like the other cheap/spammable unit

-Had no special abilities

+Can take 1,2 more hit.

What other 90 points similar fighers out there? Skeleton Shield Graveguard, just as slow, (with abilities that help them move) 2 less wound, but deal 2/4 (3/5 with abilitiy) damage, which make this fighter infinitely more reliable than the Armator.

So how exactly do you make an expensive crit-bait sloth like him work? Pray for better battleplan? I can see that he *might* be useful against some factions and players, but never that great that I feel like i need to take a bunch of them.

Edited August 24, 2019 by RaiderX

[Gobsmakka]

5 minutes ago, RaiderX said:

At 1 damage min he won't be killing anything unless he crit, which made his S4 completely pointless

At 90 points he is more expensive than many sub-100 fighters

When you look at the other warband, you can see they had much better and cheaper sub-100 fighter in comparison : Venomblood, Spear cabalist, Mindbound, and even the Awakened One, because they're so cheap.

The only 2 good thing about him is that he had 12 wound, which allow in to take 1 or 2 more hit, and he's the only sub-100 hitter for the Iron golem.

So he's :

-Expensive

-Range 1

-Slow and took age to get into combat

-Had to rely on crit just like the other cheap/spammable unit

-Had no special abilities

+Can take 1,2 more hit.

What other 90 points similar fighers out there? Skeleton Shield Graveguard, just as slow, (with abilities that help them move) 2 less wound, but deal 2/4 (3/5 with abilitiy) damage, which make this fighter infinitely more reliable than the Armator.

So how exactly do you make an expensive crit-bait sloth like him work? Pray for better battleplan?

The fact that you complain about 1 damage and say that he only deals damage on the crits, while at the same time you fail entirely to mention the number of attacks lends me to believe that you haven't actually done the math here. This is really just a lot of subjective opinions and very light on actual data. The truth is that most damage in the game overall is done by criticals, so your statement is true of basically every fighter. If you're going to compare the armator to the grave guard with shield and assume that the grave guard outperforms him in damage because he has base damage 2 instead of 1, you certainly haven't done the math. These two units are basically tied, 4.06 average damage output from the armator vs. 4.09 average damage output from the grave guard with shield. Why you ask? well, the armator makes 4 attacks per activation vs. the grave guard's 3. You have to actually do the math. The grave guard with shield is 9 points per wound (well below average) and the same toughness, he works out to 10.04 points per average attack to kill (and 8.96 attacks to kill) vs. the armator's 10.75 attacks to kill at 8.37 points per attack. In no uncertain terms, the grave guard with shield is a worse deal in stats for the points than the armator. If you're going to bring special abilities into it then ok, that's a more complicated discussion, but your assertion was that the armator was among the worst fighters in the game in stats per points and you have failed to demonstrate that.

[RaiderX]

I think I care more about "how exactly do you play the Armator" (other than "battle plan and crit", and dumb opponent on top) more than "point per wound" Because Move, weapon's range and ability (damage, movement,....) is also an important factor in point cost. You could give me a 90 pts 20 wound sloth with 1 move and no ability to move, and I'd still call it bad

The grave guard can actually move faster than the Armator, and his +1 damage ability make it reasonable to justify for his 90 pts cost.

Edited August 24, 2019 by RaiderX

[Apologetic Canadian]

Given the limitations of the starter set (and most likely the warband box), has anyone found a decent way to convert the odd Legionary or other model into a Drillmaster? A lot of posts I've glanced over have suggested that Drillmaster x3-4 and Legionary x3-4 are the "go to" 1,000pt competitive list, but with only one Drillmaster per set, that seems like it would be an expensive undertaking unless there's a good conversion guide out there.