The weird state of AoS Forgeworld

[Eevika]

I have lately been wondering what is going on with Forgeworld and AoS. There has been I think two releases in the past 2 years one of those being Stormcast heads and one being a Massive dragon that was most likely designed before AoS even launched. The support we are getting from FW is really lacking and its showing on both the rules side and the model side. I was recently looking at cool monsters to add to my swamp based Troggoth army and took a look at the Merwyrm looks great fits the theme and everything but then I realise. Monsters of destructions are not available as allies you can only take them in GA destruction. It's no wonder if forgeworld AoS sales are low if Dread Maw, Magma Dragon, Basilisk and Merwyrm are not available to anything but the Grand Alliance they are absolutely amazing looking models and I bet people would buy them if they could use them. 
 

Now there is some good stuff Legion of Azgor is a huge success in my opinion and I think thats great but the it seems like the other Forgeworld army for AoS is not coming I'm talking about Fimir. There are two models for them the Noble and the Warriors and there was plans to make it a full range they even teased 2-3 new models for them back in 2013-2014 but nothing came of that. It's kinda sad as a huge lover of Forgeworld to see that support for AoS seems to have completely stopped and all the attention is 30k  and 40k.  

PS. I think everyone should show more support to Forgeworld maybe they give us new models if we show our interest? I currently own 6 kits from them and so far all the horror stories most people tell about resin has not been true. Sure you need to use greenstuff when you join two massive pieces together but its a fun modelling project and the models stand out on the table like nothing else. 

[RuneBrush]

Forge World are kind of in a strange place for both AoS and 40k.  Last year there were specialist FW teams formed (3 people per team and one team for each game system), however they have both been broken down/incorporated into the main studio design teams responsible for each game system. 

40k has a benefit in that a lot of the models made for Age of Darkness (30k) can have rules created for 40k, however this doesn't  exist for AoS.

One contributing factor is that plastic technology has come on in leaps and bounds, so what previously could only be done in resin (i.e. super large models) is now regularly done in plastic.  The plastic Great Unclean One is actually larger than the Forge World one as an example.  There are oddball exceptions (the gigantic Khorne dragon), but I personally can't see very much new content coming out for AoS.  What I'm hoping is we might see LoA and Fimir be properly adopted by the main studio and get a proper plastic range - either that or mercenary companies created for the models that do exist.

[JPjr]

Honestly, and I could well be wrong, but I get the feeling we just won't get that much out of them any more, or at least for a while. I would assume they're operating on vastly more limited resources than the main Citadel design team and right now 30K is obviously their bread & butter and focus for the moment.

Throw in Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Adeptus Titanicus and Middle Earth and it's hard to see how they'd find the time to do much more than the very odd upgrade pack or one off special mini. And, of course, going forward the launch of Apocalypse will, if anything, divert any fresh spare capacity towards making more massive models for 40K, so yeah ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Plus it's not like Citadel can't and don't knock out pretty OTT models for most factions themselves these days anyway, so maybe that time is effectively done.

Away from the actual models though you're 100% right on the rules side. I rarely bother looking at FW but every now and then I do and they do have all these great monsters that they seem remarkably keen not to make at all useful.

They really should spend a week or two just going through the lot, rejigging warscrolls and giving them multiple keywords that allow them to be taken as part of specific (and indeed multiple specific) factions. Things like the Merwyrm would be great for Idoneth, Bonesplitterz would be a natural home for loads of other monsters etc etc. 

That they don't do this is one of those very odd (and rare) "let's leave a big potential pot of money on the table" decisions that GW sometimes makes.

 

EDIT: It will be VERY interesting to see if they provide AoS rules for the upcoming 'Ruinstorm' Daemons. The ones we've seen teased have no discernible 'futuristic' elements to them and in theory they'd be perfectly timed to bolster a potential big Everchosen/StD/Darkoath/Chaos Undivided push. But I've yet to see anything suggested that that may be the case.

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by JPjr

[novakai]

they where suppose to rearrange the rules around for the FW monster like being able to take Merwyrm into an IDK army but they have yet to do so. 

Also they supposedly show a new model of a Fimir  hag character like 4 years ago before AoS started but it been pretty much forgotten at this stage.

TBH even though I want to see cool new monster comming from them, I think they have given up on AoS in general so I doubt support would really help them. it already dubious to buy from them to begin with when they are not consistent with keeping their models in production and supporting them. their has been many times where they have discontinue models on the fly and going to Last chance to buy with only speculation that their molds have crack. I feel like your just buying models from them for boutique and art purposes and rule support is tertiary or lower

[Eevika]

18 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

One contributing factor is that plastic technology has come on in leaps and bounds, so what previously could only be done in resin (i.e. super large models) is now regularly done in plastic.  The plastic Great Unclean One is actually larger than the Forge World one as an example.  There are oddball exceptions (the gigantic Khorne dragon), but I personally can't see very much new content coming out for AoS.  What I'm hoping is we might see LoA and Fimir be properly adopted by the main studio and get a proper plastic range - either that or mercenary companies created for the models that do exist.

I do totally get this and I agree that plastic models look fantastic now days. I just kinda wish we could still get those exiting one off releases of super cool models. Also forgeworld models do have that extra level of texture that I havent seen in much plastic only the Guo really gets close to that. 

[RuneBrush]

10 minutes ago, novakai said:

they where suppose to rearrange the rules around for the FW monster like being able to take Merwyrm into an IDK army but they have yet to do so. 

Also they supposedly show a new model of a Fimir  hag character like 4 years ago before AoS started but it been pretty much forgotten at this stage.

That was the plan back when FW had a dedicated team, now that they don't, any rule changes need to be done by the main design studio.  Now to their credit, we are seeing things being updated as battletomes are being done - if you cast your mind back to when Gloomspire came out, we got a number of changes on things like the Troggoth Hag and the points are being included within pitched battle profiles.

[Ghark]

I'm very puzzled regarding Forgeworld.

I totally get that now GW does better quality kits for cheaper. But it was not only the miniatures that I liked from FW.

It was their ability to explore things in the 40K universe (and in a certain extent in the World That Was) which were more nichey and to produce books which were very rich narratively speaking.

I mean, they added new flavour units to every 40K race and they did add great monsters to the Old World (and now to AoS). Take a look at all the cool tyranids monsters, the cool necron constructs or the awesome Tau armors.

But that was a long time ago. Now they are just IMHO 30K marine producers, they do not add extra flavour to GW's universes anymore. Yes specialist games are cool. But still, I prefered flavour over extra 30k minis (though they are mostly all great).

[Melcavuk]

Likely entirely unrelated but last time I went around the exhibition at WHW that Magma Dragon had been moved into the Fyreslayer army display and the Merwyrm was in the Idoneth. 

Its only display but presumably the brief to relocate them into those specific displays came from somewhere.

[Eevika]

20 minutes ago, Melcavuk said:

Likely entirely unrelated but last time I went around the exhibition at WHW that Magma Dragon had been moved into the Fyreslayer army display and the Merwyrm was in the Idoneth. 

Its only display but presumably the brief to relocate them into those specific displays came from somewhere.

Yeah I bet they had planned to change the rules but something happened and the rules change was forgotten

[zilberfrid]

For Freeguild, it's not a lot better.

Now, I really like Manann's Blades as alternate guard models, but they are not complete models, at almost double the price, for no change in rules. I would need to take the swords and shield arms from a guard unit, and put them on these. I would be better served to buy more greatswords and use them as guard units, cheaper, more useful bits and could be built as another troup type, and they would have the fancier clothes extend to their arms (which is what I would want from a premium mini). They also do not include banner or musician options. Had they included swords and shield arms, I would probably purchase this set.

I really like the Ironsides as alternate models for guards, the Ironsides models are well armoured, but the rules do not reflect this if you use them as handgunners or crossbowmen (they could make nice halberdiers or pikemen). They also do not have any weapons, so again, an incomplete unit for the price of two complete ones that do have spare bits. They also do not include banner or musician options. Had they made these into bayonetted handgunners to use as Militia guard, I would probably purchase this set.

Then there is Elspeth on the Carmine dragon, that does not have a warscroll.

We have Lietpold, a nice looking general on horse, but equipped with a great weapon and no shield, which is not the way you want to run generals.

Then we have the three generals, one not reflecting the level of armour at all (being more of a flagellant), two equipped with great weapons (which, again, noone does), and one really nice and usable one (not optimal, but at least not terrible).

 

Edited July 10, 2019 by zilberfrid

[Overread]

Yeah magma dragon and Myrewyrm are almost no brainer moves into those armies, but for some reason that message hasn't pushed through to the GW rules team to make the change. Also its interesting to note that many of the greater demons from FW have rules that are not "as good" as their GW counterparts - mostly because they lose command abilities. 

It's very strange also because GW doesn't always seem that keen to push the FW models. They didn't really push the vermindlord, horror nor wolfrats when they were launching skaven for example. In a way its almost like some parts of GW would rather FW wasn't there and was gone, whilst other parts want it to continue. You can almost see some kind of power struggle going on internally as FW seems to jump around from having lots of resources being allocated to having them taken away or moved or shifted. The Specialist games doing really well has clearly thrown some spanners, but also boons, into the works. 

 

That said FW hasn't really been putting out much for 40K that isn't marines or "HH" (basically more marines); though the odd new kit like the Necron Titan does make it out. Yet if you look at Orks, Tyranids, Eldar - many of the kits are older. AoS just doesn't seem to have had much love at all and even Old World didn't get much either. 

 

It's a really sad state of affairs as I agree, FW was there not just for big things but for alternate things. For making critters and beasties that the main studio just never produced. Also whilst GW's plastic is really advanced now, resin still has some advantages in the nature of how its cast and the shapes you can make and the overall fin detailing possible. It's still a viable product. That said with the price rise that went on about a year back I wonder if FW hasn't also been casually priced out of the international market in a bit way as a result of that; which might in itself have caused a huge diminishing of sales for anything that wasn't heavily pushed (Specialist and HH). It didn't help that GW marketed that price rise by advertising it as a shipping price reduction so loads of people waited on orders and built them up only to see prices leap up on the actual models so that the total order was WAY more expensive than under the old shipping.

[kenshin620]

Even 40k they are in an odd state with many of their rules being half dipped in the original Indexes. Though apocalypse has somewhat helped.

(also for some reason the ork warboss on a bike...does not help warbikers?)

[Tropical Ghost General]

I would love to see Death get more FW attention, only one model for an entire grand alliance is super sad 😢

[Acid_Nine]

yea, as a 30k and 40k admec player I should be used to forgeworld being ****** with their rules writing, but it still hurts. At least one faction, monsters of chaos, has some kind of allience to include those in regular games. if they did the same for every monster faction, I think there would be some more sales.

Heck, we have mercenaries now. make FW monsters mercenary companies so that any faction can use them. make a single non-space marine model for once, call it a beast tamer, and allow him and one monster to be included in an army. wouldnt even take up that much space, like the companies in the GH2019.

I would love to have a merwyrm for my idoneth, or have a reason to make a skin wolf focused army like I want to, but so far they are so unsupported it's like "Why bother?"

[Televiper11]

I'm reasonably happy with LoA in terms of model line and rules support. But I hate to think the line is stagnant and that we'll never get that K'Daai Destroyer or other cool things.

[Num]

I can't even play Forgeworld models in my local GW shop so that is that

[Travis Baumann]

Never looked at the Merwyrm before.  That thing is awesome!   I would absolutely love to include that in my Idoneth army even if rules wise it sucked.

I might buy it anyways.  $115 is a bit steep for a non-functional beasty but my force is from Ghur and I already have some weird creatures in it so this would perfect for my force's background story.

[Tropical Ghost General]

23 minutes ago, Num said:

I can't even play Forgeworld models in my local GW shop so that is that

Why is that? If it's an official GW store then they are officially not allowed to ban FW models, it's basically company policy.

[Televiper11]

35 minutes ago, Num said:

I can't even play Forgeworld models in my local GW shop so that is that

Why not? They are perfectly legal to play. The only reason would be if the model's keywords don't work for Matched Play.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Televiper11

[Overread]

10 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

Why is that? If it's an official GW store then they are officially not allowed to ban FW models, it's basically company policy.

Some of the over-seas (non UK) stores can be a little different in how they operate. That said I'd honestly be shocked at any GW store banning FW models unless they were very obvious recasts and then it would only be the recasts not the entire store range. 

Heck if anything the store should encourage them because any ordered through the store count toward the stores sales for the manager. 

[Num]

I have been told that it has to do with the rules, because using some FW models would be quite unfair and unbalanced. So they just decided that they can't be used.

Perhaps they would allow them nevertheless if I happen to come to an event with some. But as I don't own any, and wasn't encouraged to buy any because of this "rule", I have never insisted.

I still feel it's a bit of a shame, because I would have gladly bought their Skaven range.

Edited July 10, 2019 by Num

[Nubgan]

With they would start a character range for AoS, whole forgeworld armies are far too expensive for the majority of gamers.

They bang on about the amount of cool lore they are getting now, to me it would be a great place to start.  

[Tropical Ghost General]

15 minutes ago, Num said:

because using some FW models would be quite unfair and unbalanced.

The same could be said for a fair few armies (Slaanesh, FEC, Skaven, Fyreslayers, etc...). That sucks that that's the reason they give, my heart goes out to you on such a crappy situation

[Dead Scribe]

hahahaha thats such an illogical reason to ban forgeworld given that there is already quite a bit of unbalanced bits in the game that has nothing to do with FW.

[Overread]

FW bans were more common in the old days before GW started making super heavies for the regular game. Because in them days if you took a FW super heavy (not a reaver just something semi-big) then it could almost be unkillable unless your opponent took a very specific counter list. Today its not half as bad because super heavies are normal in the game and thus armies are built around having more toolbox options to tackle them and the superheavy isn't as much in a class of its own. 

I can see it being an old policy or one of those "please agree in the game before you play" situations, but seems really odd for a GW franchise store to outright ban their use in any matches at all. A limited use in tournaments is fine, but a straight up ban is just odd. Personally I'd appeal even if I didn't own any FW - appeal to at least allow their use in casual games