TheCovenLord Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, HollowHills said: Anyone wish that skaven went up more? The horde spam is just not engaging to play against. Especially with the death frenzy spell. I agree. The deal mortal wounds on death (plague monks) coupled with fighting back on deaths is very un-interactive. It is a deterrent to tactical combat moves to deal with them. And to be frank, an insult added on top of their hyper-efficient combat profile which guarantees whatever they touch dies. Damned if you do, damned if you don't at a super cheap price tag so maxed units are always taken. "But just take shooting/spells" not all armies are good at damaging spells which skaven can always unbind and most shooting beyond Rukk (which has to wipe the unit or else they are easily within charge range) and celestar/longstrike/other skaven spam (which is order only) is pretty lackluster. Edited July 8, 2019 by TheCovenLord added plague monks disclaimer for mortal wounds on death 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kamose Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 32 minutes ago, discoking said: Thats gonna be pretty funny the 1st time a giant stuffs Nagash into his bag "...and Groog the gargant did stuff the wounded Archaon into his bag thus saving the entire universe!" - Realmgate Wars 8: Realm Harder 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prochuvi Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Belper said: They already have 'wholly within' on their auras except for the Haggnarr CT. And if you're going to change hagnarr to 'wholly' we need the bubble up to 14" at least. Sure as the hag quuen prayer that is within 3" ? That is the first and major thing to changue to wholy within 8" to be balanced. A unit of 30 daugthers doing a konga can have this buff even if one model of the unit is at 20" of the hag quuen So it is false that every buff of dok is wholy within Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanzou Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 with the 14 inch flight + charge, won't the FEC double strike still dominate the competition? How could you respond to that if they can get in and immediately double strike on their turn regardless? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themortalgod Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Zanzou said: with the 14 inch flight + charge, won't the FEC double strike still dominate the competition? How could you respond to that if they can get in and immediately double strike on their turn regardless? Bubble wrap everything in worthless brimstone horrors then zap that ****** into the ground after he wrecks your horrors. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The World Tree Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 6 minutes ago, Zanzou said: with the 14 inch flight + charge, won't the FEC double strike still dominate the competition? How could you respond to that if they can get in and immediately double strike on their turn regardless? Deploy properly? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampHeart Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Zanzou said: with the 14 inch flight + charge, won't the FEC double strike still dominate the competition? How could you respond to that if they can get in and immediately double strike on their turn regardless? You screen appropriately and deploy understanding their movement? Or you take things that also play in the activation wars (if you play Chaos you have access to a GBS and the Taurus at all times). Honestly at the top end most people have been dealing with them already (you can see their downward shift in dominance from their release until now, especially with things like Skaven and FS entering the meta). That said even playing against them with BoC I always found they were manageable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanzou Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, The World Tree said: Deploy properly? Was just a genuine question! 7 minutes ago, themortalgod said: Bubble wrap everything in worthless brimstone horrors then zap that ****** into the ground after he wrecks your horrors. Thanks haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qaz Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 25 minutes ago, Zanzou said: with the 14 inch flight + charge, won't the FEC double strike still dominate the competition? How could you respond to that if they can get in and immediately double strike on their turn regardless? Well... they won't be able to do everything now considering you can only buy 1 cp and they would be inclined to spend 1-2 CP in their first turn for summoning. Hence gristlegores will only have 1 CP each round to strike again. So yes, something will double strike you and murder a unit, with proper deployment and screening, hopefully it's a throwaway unit, not your key unit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amysrevenge Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 And, unless you've got your own Start of the Combat Phase unit, normal Feast Day FEC can do the same thing, they just are compelled to choose the TG to fight first (and then go again for free) before you go. Really brings Gristlegore down to par with the other builds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drofnum Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 21 minutes ago, Qaz said: Well... they won't be able to do everything now considering you can only buy 1 cp and they would be inclined to spend 1-2 CP in their first turn for summoning. Hence gristlegores will only have 1 CP each round to strike again. So yes, something will double strike you and murder a unit, with proper deployment and screening, hopefully it's a throwaway unit, not your key unit. They dont really need more than 2 CP generally. Everything but the general is usually in range of the throne for a free summon, then the general has 2 for his summon and feeding frenzy. The CP change doesnt really hurt FEC much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogwai Man Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 FEC will still be dominating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampHeart Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 9 minutes ago, Mogwai Man said: FEC will still be dominating. You mean like they've been for the last few months with HoS, Skaven, and FS in the meta? I.E. they've been quickly unlocked and people have learned to deal with them appropriately? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Qaz said: Well... they won't be able to do everything now considering you can only buy 1 cp and they would be inclined to spend 1-2 CP in their first turn for summoning. Hence gristlegores will only have 1 CP each round to strike again. So yes, something will double strike you and murder a unit, with proper deployment and screening, hopefully it's a throwaway unit, not your key unit. Wow, someone actually aware of FEC CP starvation, especially in Gristlegore lists Edited July 8, 2019 by XReN 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 1 hour ago, Zanzou said: with the 14 inch flight + charge, won't the FEC double strike still dominate the competition? How could you respond to that if they can get in and immediately double strike on their turn regardless? Even if FEC will pull an alpha strike on you with 2 monsters fighting twice before you, it is very possible to screen against it and kill the general on counter-charge. Or give him alpha strike of your own. It's only 1 monster, that now can't mess you up in your turn, there isn't much he can do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogwai Man Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, SwampHeart said: You mean like they've been for the last few months with HoS, Skaven, and FS in the meta? I.E. they've been quickly unlocked and people have learned to deal with them appropriately? Those are the obvious rivals to them. They'll still be trading punches within that weight class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prochuvi Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 3 hours ago, Mogwai Man said: FEC will still be dominating. Yes agree with you, this faq havent changued nothing about the free sumon(3000 points of fec vs other 2000of other army is so balanced) Also nothing about cant stack the +3 attacks spell with the attack twice etc etc They only did minor nerfs in points that are neutered by buffs to units. Only the little nerf to the attack first can be seen as nerf,but wont be enougth to bring fec out of the top spot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dead Scribe Posted July 8, 2019 Author Share Posted July 8, 2019 Its still all about what list you bring to the table. So many players defeat themselves by just bringing trash lists or lists that aren't optimal enough, and then get mad when they get beat by a list that is. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skreech Verminking Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 43 minutes ago, prochuvi said: Only the little nerf to the attack first can be seen as nerf,but wont be enougth to bring fec out of the top spot Well those minor nervs makes it possible for us to charge the always attacking first ghoul king, without having to fear that he attacks first twice. meaning I don’t have to be scared of an indestructible terrorgheist which i can basically never face with any unit that costs more then them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satyrical Sophist Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 1 hour ago, prochuvi said: Yes agree with you, this faq havent changued nothing about the free sumon(3000 points of fec vs other 2000of other army is so balanced) 530, 540, 630, 740. Those are the amounts of summoning I can find in winning FEC lists ( it usually seems like a regent, a king on terror geist and one on zombie dragon, sometimes another foot king or regent). That's also assuming you always go for the highest points worth of summonable units, so ghouls for regents, Varghulfs for dragons and flayers for terror geist. The only list that can get anywhere near 1000 points of summoning would be very very arch regent heavy and be at the risk of getting murdered in the first turn. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mayple Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dead Scribe said: Its still all about what list you bring to the table. So many players defeat themselves by just bringing trash lists or lists that aren't optimal enough, and then get mad when they get beat by a list that is. I absolutely agree! I also think the sentence "So many players defeat themselves by..." really hits the nail on the head regarding a vast majority of losses players experience. It is rare to truly be defeated by the opponent, and much more common to be ones own worst enemy, so to speak. I'd go as far as to say that if you can avoid defeating yourself, in whichever shape or form that comes in (Poor listbuilding/ bad mentality/lack of a plan/defeatist attitude/etc) -- One would increase their chances of winning every single game drastically. Edited July 9, 2019 by Mayple 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XReN Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 5 hours ago, Skreech Verminking said: Well those minor nervs makes it possible for us to charge the always attacking first ghoul king, without having to fear that he attacks first twice. meaning I don’t have to be scared of an indestructible terrorgheist which i can basically never face with any unit that costs more then them. Very much true, one of my first games with new FEC was against my friend playing Skaven, his entire left flank was running away from my general because he couldn't touch him with anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tropical Ghost General Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Anyone else noticed that faction terrain was 3" from an objective and is now 1"? Seems a shame to allow faction terrain to camp fully on top of objectives again, especially for those factions that don't (and won't) get terrain pieces. Also as a side note, FEC summoning is nothing compared to Slaanesh summoning. It's limited and costs CP to use and the summoned units aren't great, it's not kill a KoS, return a KoS sillyness that Slaanesh have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 7 hours ago, prochuvi said: Yes agree with you, this faq havent changued nothing about the free sumon(3000 points of fec vs other 2000of other army is so balanced Seraphon can easily do that as well ... isn’t the end all. And Slaanesh gets close to that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HollowHills Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Most FEC summoning isn't that great too be fair. I'm not scared of some ghouls etc. Given they were already struggling a bit vs the newer books I don't think FEC are going to dominate from now on. Skaven will still be too good, but at least the top lists have seen a fairly good bump in points. Slaanesh and fyreslayers will remain strong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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