Thoughts on grave guard

[LJ26]

With grimghasts out what are peoples thoughts on GG? They're worse in every way except that they do better against single model units. Do you have to run 30 or is 20 enough? What ever kills 20 will probably kill 30 right? I'm trying to find silver lining after all our nerfs. Also... As an aside. Slaanesh Summoning is bonkers. Saw a friend summon back 1k pts at bottom of 2 after getting doubled by gristlegore. Summoned another 1k by games end and won

[ACBelMutie]

I don't agree about Grimghast. They are still better than Grave Guard because of the 4++ save and movility (8 Vs 4).

Greetings

[Sception]

Id be inclined to run 30 if you run any at all, probably with cogs and careful gravesite use to try and get some surprise charges in, but they still compare poorly to any other elite infantry in the game at the same points cost, and skeletons are still a lot cheaper for pretty much everything grave guard are minus the rend.  Grimghasts even at 2 points more per model still look better with reach and fly 8 and ethereal 4+, and grimgjasts don't even look very good to begin with right now.

I'll still run them myself.  Partially because I love the models, and because I'm not convinced that the legions even have a top tier competitive list under ghb19.  Maybe not even a mid tier one.  If I'm going to lose anyway, I might as well lose with what I like.

Though by that logic maybe it's time to pull out the chariots and run some tomb kings...

[gearfrea]

Grimghast even with the points increase are still the way to go imo. GG don't match up if you do a side by side comparison. Also don't agree with Sception personally, I still think LoN can be quite powerful. All the major factions took a hit and there are still some points changes coming up for things like Skaven and FEC which are the most abusive armies in the meta currently. 

 

Here is the list I am currently working on if you're interested:

Neferata /w Overwhelming Dread

Necromancer  - Fading Vigour

Necromancer - Decrepify

VLoZD [General] - Aura of Ages - Ethereal Amulet - Amethystine Pinions 

3x 5 man units Dire Wolves

40x Skeletons /w spears

20x Grimghast Reapers

Gemenids of Uhl-Ghsh

1x Command Point

Idea is to use Nefs command ability along with things like Overwhelming Dread, Fading Vigour and Gemenids to debuff units into near uselessness (-2 to hit, -2 Attacks). Potent against the major power units in the game - blocks of plague monks, sisters of slaughter, evocators, grimghast etc. Decrepify in there because of FEC mostly. Couple this with the spell going off twice on a roll of a 9 and that is some serious debuffing. Still gotta do some testing on how this pans out though. 

Other unit I am looking at including are some corpse carts for the +1 to casting as the list needs its spells to hit. Also umbral spellportal for extra range. Hope this helps

[Evil Bob]

On 6/26/2019 at 7:58 PM, Sception said:

Snip

but they still compare poorly to any other elite infantry in the game at the same points cost, and skeletons are still a lot cheaper for pretty much everything grave guard are minus the rend.  Grimghasts even at 2 points more per model still look better with reach and fly 8 and ethereal 4+, and grimgjasts don't even look very good to begin with right now.

Snip

Basically that.

 I don’t know how well the point change may interact with fellow older warscrolls.  New warscrolls will destroy them via power-creep.

Even optimizing them through GHoN doesn’t draw me for standard Match Play games of AoS.  They might work in Meeting Engagements, the chatter in the GHoN thread is pretty interesting.  If my local hobby group will play that game mode I’ll pull them from storage for testing.

The Devs really need to decide on their role and rework the warscroll just like they did for Deamonettes and Fyreslayers.

[Saxon]

7 hours ago, Evil Bob said:

Basically that.

 I don’t know how well the point change may interact with fellow older warscrolls.  New warscrolls will destroy them via power-creep.

Even optimizing them through GHoN doesn’t draw me for standard Match Play games of AoS.  They might work in Meeting Engagements, the chatter in the GHoN thread is pretty interesting.  If my local hobby group will play that game mode I’ll pull them from storage for testing.

The Devs really need to decide on their role and rework the warscroll just like they did for Deamonettes and Fyreslayers.

I have played a few games with them mainly because i need to fill out 2k points as my painting has been slow. With great wight blades they're pointless as shields do nothing. Everything has rend these days so no point. 

What i have found is opponents tend to fear grave guard and will target them because of the rend and potential for double damage. Its not a bad thing when you want to get your big block of skellies into combat with 4 attacks each! Also once you get skellies in, people tend to forget about GG so they can be good for knocking units off objectives. 

That being said Grimghast are better in every way.

[soots]

It definitely helps make the decision harder to go Deathmarch or go Grimghast.

Im swaying to deathmarch to get my 25" charging recycling blackknights

[Charlo]

Deathmarch is one of the only viable LoN Battalions so it would be good to take advantage of it IMO.

[Winstiford]

I am returning to the game after a ~10 year break from the hobby, and always wanted to build an army around these guys. I have many questions, which are better suited to its own thread (which can wait for another day), but I am eager to get started assembling my newly purchased models. So, a couple of quickies on this unit:

1. What is the best way to equip these fellas in a Legion of Night army?

I am leaning towards great blades for looks, but those shields with the "bait" perk are extremely tempting.

2. What is the best regiment size?

I really want a big block, which sounds like the best option from Sception above (30), but running a 2 or 3 smaller 10 man units (mainly for colour scheme purposes, i have so many ideas!) is again tempting.

I dont plan on playing tourneys or anything, wouldnt be using GG as my "build around" if I did, but still want a respectable army at the end of the day.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Death1942]

12 hours ago, Winstiford said:

I am returning to the game after a ~10 year break from the hobby, and always wanted to build an army around these guys. I have many questions, which are better suited to its own thread (which can wait for another day), but I am eager to get started assembling my newly purchased models. So, a couple of quickies on this unit:

1. What is the best way to equip these fellas in a Legion of Night army?

I am leaning towards great blades for looks, but those shields with the "bait" perk are extremely tempting.

2. What is the best regiment size?

I really want a big block, which sounds like the best option from Sception above (30), but running a 2 or 3 smaller 10 man units (mainly for colour scheme purposes, i have so many ideas!) is again tempting.

I dont plan on playing tourneys or anything, wouldnt be using GG as my "build around" if I did, but still want a respectable army at the end of the day.

Thanks in advance.

 

I can only speak about a competitive front as that is what I play.  The shields aren't great as there is so much rend these days (and you go to 4+ to wound), also consider that grave guard are summonable and so you can bring them back for 1cp.  For those reasons I think taking the great blades are a better shout as they will hit harder and their situational defensive boost from the shields doesn't really matter as much if they can come back to life.

Regiment size is typically min or max and nothing in between.  I think due to the ability to bring back a unit for 1cp I would always lean towards the biggest unit possible.  These guys are either going to be the big centre block that is hard to shift (shields) or your big anvil (blades with buffs) and you want to maximise its potential by taking the biggest unit available.  I find that taking small units only works well for really fast units (black knights, direwolves, various nighthaunt units) because they can quickly threaten objectives and so their min size isn't as much of a hindrance to their output in the game because I am not expecting them to kill anything.

I really want a unit of graveguard and I plan on modelling them to be mostly blades with some shields because I like the look.  I think rule of cool should definitely be considered as well and for that I think the shields look the best by far.

[Winstiford]

8 hours ago, Death1942 said:

I can only speak about a competitive front as that is what I play.  The shields aren't great as there is so much rend these days (and you go to 4+ to wound), also consider that grave guard are summonable and so you can bring them back for 1cp.  For those reasons I think taking the great blades are a better shout as they will hit harder and their situational defensive boost from the shields doesn't really matter as much if they can come back to life.

Regiment size is typically min or max and nothing in between.  I think due to the ability to bring back a unit for 1cp I would always lean towards the biggest unit possible.  These guys are either going to be the big centre block that is hard to shift (shields) or your big anvil (blades with buffs) and you want to maximise its potential by taking the biggest unit available.  I find that taking small units only works well for really fast units (black knights, direwolves, various nighthaunt units) because they can quickly threaten objectives and so their min size isn't as much of a hindrance to their output in the game because I am not expecting them to kill anything.

I really want a unit of graveguard and I plan on modelling them to be mostly blades with some shields because I like the look.  I think rule of cool should definitely be considered as well and for that I think the shields look the best by far.

Thanks Death.

I know I will  order another box of 'em, bought the last 2 on the shelf at my local store and 30 sounds like the ideal... BUT after busting a box open and seeing the actual detail on the shields, holy ******, images do not give fair justice to the detail on those shields! I might have to follow the rule of cool, especially as I dont plan on playing at the competitive level, I think I might run with shields despite being the worse option. After seeing all the components the modder in me is coming out (maybe I need to order 2 more boxes, 'cos I know im gonna have at least a couple resigned to the bits box)...

[Death1942]

I have always subscribed to the rule that if you say a unit is armed with X but visually it has Y and you have no other of that unit with a different weapon then you should be able to run them as whatever weapon you want.  If you also play that way (and most people I have come across play that way) then I suggest you go all shields and when you use them in game just tell your opponent that they are actually great blades.

[AHexInScarletRed]

What about having some GG with Sword and Shield - and Greatblades on their back, while others have it vice-versa? 

[Saxon]

2 hours ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

What about having some GG with Sword and Shield - and Greatblades on their back, while others have it vice-versa? 

The shields only work against weapons with no rend so they're practically useless in 2019  

[lare2]

Just a note on the shields, in Legion of Night you'll have those bad lads on a 3+ save (in your terf) against zero rend. Not too shabby on a 30 strong horde of incredibly stabby skellies. 

 

[Charlo]

5 hours ago, lare2 said:

Just a note on the shields, in Legion of Night you'll have those bad lads on a 3+ save (in your terf) against zero rend. Not too shabby on a 30 strong horde of incredibly stabby skellies. 

True, but not a lot that will be storming your deployment zone has - rend! 

[lare2]

4 hours ago, Charlo said:

True, but not a lot that will be storming your deployment zone has - rend! 

Aye. To be honest, I run the great blades and then only 10 as a deathmarch tax. Skelly saves, I basically see DM as an unrendable save. Most games consist of me saying 'straight to damage.'

Dying's what we do best though. If you're not dying playing death, you're playing death wrong!

Edited July 15, 2019 by lare2

[Winstiford]

20 hours ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

What about having some GG with Sword and Shield - and Greatblades on their back, while others have it vice-versa? 

Thank you kind sir, I think you (almost) solved my predicament. I wont do the 50/50 thing as you suggest, but as there are only 2 shields I like, 2 I am "meh" on and 1 i dislike, I think I will just stick a few to the backs of maybe 8-10 models in the 30 man unit while equipping them all with GWB's. I was originally considering converting some of the GWB's into 1-handers, but that didnt sit right with me for the overall look of the army itself that I am looking for.

 

 

Edited July 16, 2019 by Winstiford

[Charsiupao]

Sorry to necro this, but I thought it'd be better than starting a completely new thread for just a couple questions.

I am building my box of 10 Grave Guard now, and I'm going full GWB as much as possible (and yes, the assembly is tricky!) but I'm now down to Seneschal and 4 GWB, and the instructions have room for the Hornblower and Standard Bearer - both of whom use normal blades - and in fact as Grave Guards are a 5-man unit minimum, I can actually assemble two Hornblowers and Standard Bearers. Are they worth assembling for the 6" charge and -1 opponent bravery, or should I go for the full 9 GWBs?

For the Standard Bearer, do the -1 Bravery effects stack if my Grave Guard, Black Knights and Skeleton Warriors are all within 6" of the unit I'm locked in combat with? If they are, then it might be worth considering the standard bearer, but if not, then perhaps I shall let the skeleton warriors carry the standards and I'll just ride off their debuff.