My wishlist for Stormcasts

[boombyeyeah]

Since its way too hot to work, here is my wishlist for changes in the next Stormcast Battletome, i will try to talk about changing units to fit more in lorewise than just talk about points adjustments.

Liberators: The most common SC unit, the old Posterboy, if taken at all we see them in small groups of 5 waiting on an objektive to die.
More lorelike would be large shieldwalls in which enemies shatter wave after wave.
To make them more attractive in large groups, my suggestions:
Sigmarite Shieldwall:"Almost nothing can break through of overlapping sigmarite shields": If this unit contains 10+ models, you can reroll saverolls of 1, or all saverolls if it is equipped with shields.

Fighting as one:" countless trainingsessions in the Gladitorium allow these warriors to switch between inpenetrable shieldwall and righteous assault in an instant": If this units contains: 10+ models, add one to the range of its melee weapons.
This would allow them to fight in two ranks.
To compensate these buffs, i would delete "Lay low the Tyrants". We should use our elite units to kill other elites anyway.

Judicators: They are more or less fine, but i would change the role of special weapons, the Xbow should be a monster hunter weapon and the cluster bomb like skyboltbow be more effektive against hordes.
Thunderbolt Xbow: always hits Monsters for d3 MWs. Skybolt Bow: does 2 woundrolls against units with 5+ models, 3 against 10+, 4 against 15, 5 against 20, 6 woundrolls against units with 25+ modells.

Prosecutors: Perfect candidates lorewise for a "fight first" mechanic, maybe give the Prime an extra attack with the greatweapon back.

Paladins: Well, i think most will agree that they still cannot compete with evocators, i would like to see some armor buff to represent their heavy bulky armor, and/or some special overcharge ability (what are those sigmaresk-jetpacks on their backs for?). And Bravery 8!

Dracothian Guard: maybe increase wounds per model to 6 as they look more bulky than gryphchargers, and i would change tempestors distruptive fire to "the targeted unit fights at the end of the following combat phase". This is some tool against all those "fight first" armies.

Celestant Prime: He needs Protection against Mortal Wound, i plegde for a 5+ extra save!

Gryph Hounds: Increase the ranges of Warning Cry and Loyal Compagnions, reduce units size to 3 models, reduce points.

Castigators: Make d3 woundrolls on 6s work against every enemy.

Vanguard-Hunters: They could use there large coats for cover against shooting attacks.

Vanguard Palladors: The fastest known animal deserves a +1 Charge.


So some bigger, some smaller changes to make unused units more interessting. What do you think of this?

[CommissarRotke]

right now I can really only speak to the gryph hounds and the castigators which is: yes please. Prime feels like it needs more than just MW protection at 340pts.

Overall, some actual MW protection, fight first, and forcing enemies to fight last is definitely needed.

[HammerOfSigmar]

Well, I prefer them change the "ride the wind" rule to move 6d6" with temporal fly ability, need to be 6" away from any enemy unit but can charge in the charge phase. Actually, considering their pathetic close combat damage output, GW can really consider just remove the cannot charge limit for the current verion "ride the wind" rule.

[XReN]

For libs - I would never give up Lay Low the Tyrants because it's just a cool rule and reminds me of days of Vanguard Wing, when a single Liberator Prime with greatweapon was able to send enemy heroes into shadow realm

Celestant Prime should have the only 2+ save by default in AoS

Castigators should be able to shoot out of LoS and without Look out Sir penalty, because they have grenade launchers essentially

Prosecutors, agree with Prime, also should be battleline and cost 80 points and have 2" reach on grandaxe

Paladins, +1 attack across the board, maces stunning enemies for -1 to hit

Drachotian guard, bring back their old rules and battalions

Palladorks - rework, nothing can save this pathetic unit

Hunters, an ability to make reactive actions in opponent's charge phase like shooting or moving D6 directly from closest enemy unit

Knight-Venator - make his arrow auto MWs if hits

Knights Questor - fight first, better profile, specialised weapon for anti-horde, anti-hero, anti-monster

[CommissarRotke]

@XReN these all sound pretty sick, and Dracoths were even better?? I flippin love the Pallador models, but it seems even the javelins can't save them

[chord]

1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

@XReN these all sound pretty sick, and Dracoths were even better?? I flippin love the Pallador models, but it seems even the javelins can't save them

Agreed the a palladors need to be able to charge after ride like the wind

[boombyeyeah]

Would you like a charge after teleport but at 9 inch more than the current rule?

@XReN I like your ideas, especially Hunters that can react somehow in the enemies turn would be cool, same would be nice for palladors too

[CommissarRotke]

It does feel like all Vanguard Chamber units should have an Overwatch rule since...that's the entire point of a vanguard.

[HammerOfSigmar]

If the pallador need to be 9" away and have no buff for charging, it will remain almost useless. To be honest, I will it is even worst, currently, you can still use the pistol to do some shooting, just cannot charge to do close combat. If changed to 9", no pistol shooting anymore, you basically do nothing in that turn since the chance to get a 9" charge without any buffs is less than 30%.  7" or 6" will be much better and make pallador a viable choice.

Edited June 27, 2019 by HammerOfSigmar

[CommissarRotke]

11 minutes ago, HammerOfSigmar said:

If the pallador need to be 9" away and have no buff for charging, it will remain almost useless. To be honest, I will it is even worst, currently, you can still use the pistol to do some shooting, just cannot charge to do close combat. If changed to 9", no pistol shooting anymore, you basically do nothing in that turn since the chance to get a 9" charge without any buffs is less than 30%.  7" or 6" will be much better and make pallador a viable choice.

it'd probably be 6" since they're mostly going by 3's for lengths

[chord]

1 hour ago, boombyeyeah said:

Would you like a charge after teleport but at 9 inch more than the current rule?

 

No  still charge at 6" away.  It's still a 50-50 shot to charging 

[ledha]

personnaly, before changing warscroll, i'd add a allegiance ability to the stormcast.

- One if your army is full warrior

- One if your army is full vanguard

-One if your army is full sacrosanct

- One if your army is full extremis.

Etc...

Stormcast are supposed to sometime fight as chambers, but in the current rulees, one chamber can't be played (extremis), another has too many crippling weaknesses to be played alone (vanguard) and another is meh (warrior).

It could be giving retreat+shoot to everyone if you play full vanguard (so they can properly harass), a +1 to cast and unbind if you play full sacrosanct (so your caster are actually efficient), giving run+charge to extremis (so your full cavalry army doesn't rely on a footslogging hero from another chamber to do what it's supposed to do) or a 6++ if you play full warriors (or a baseline staunch defenders for everyone).

Nothing for a mixed army, because everyone can cover each other weaknesses.

Also, NOT GIVING POINT DROP but boosting the warscrolls. I didn't played stormcast to be as numerous as everyone. I want to fight at 1v3 and be able to win. I want elite warriors. Why the hell are 6 gryph-hound as expensive as 10 arbdoys ??? Why are liberators 100 pts each ? Keep the point cost, slap one more wound and/or attack to everyone and half of the work is done.

Also, rework the celestant prime. His special rule sound cool but a model that need to NOT BE HERE to be powerful enough to have some impact is complete retardation.

[chord]

9 minutes ago, ledha said:

 

Also, rework the celestant prime. His special rule sound cool but a model that need to NOT BE HERE to be powerful enough to have some impact is complete retardation.

I agree 110%.  They must hate the Celestant Prime.  At least drop his points to 200.  Or make him worth his current point value.  Maybe reduce bravery by 1 on all enemy units while prime is in the celestial realm.  They are worried he is going to drop down and whup them.  

Edited June 27, 2019 by chord

[armisael]

They should rework Stardrake rule also.  He can’t fight one in one with any other monster in the game.

[XReN]

16 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

@XReN these all sound pretty sick, and Dracoths were even better?? I flippin love the Pallador models, but it seems even the javelins can't save them

Well, I went wyld, that's what such threads are for, yes? 

And about dracoths, yes, Fulminators and Tempestors were better, they had a supperior breath attack - 6" d3 shots 3+ to hit, 1 MW or 2 MWs if the target is 3" or closer, Tempestors were giving a unit they shot with crossbows a -1 to hit penalty for all attacks, not only ranged

Battalions were also good,

Lightning Echelon allowed you to do a Linebreaking Assault in the charge phaseonce per game, so the units in battalion charged immediately a second time, moving through enemy units as they did a second charge and dealing 1 MW to units they charged through. And Fulminators shared their shooting defence ability on Tempestors

Thunderwave Echelon made you roll a die for each model fleeing from enemy unit and on 5+ another model were fleeing as well

And once per game they could attack a second time

[XReN]

12 hours ago, ledha said:

personnaly, before changing warscroll, i'd add a allegiance ability to the stormcast.

- One if your army is full warrior

- One if your army is full vanguard

-One if your army is full sacrosanct

- One if your army is full extremis.

Etc...

Stormcast are supposed to sometime fight as chambers, but in the current rulees, one chamber can't be played (extremis), another has too many crippling weaknesses to be played alone (vanguard) and another is meh (warrior).

It could be giving retreat+shoot to everyone if you play full vanguard (so they can properly harass), a +1 to cast and unbind if you play full sacrosanct (so your caster are actually efficient), giving run+charge to extremis (so your full cavalry army doesn't rely on a footslogging hero from another chamber to do what it's supposed to do) or a 6++ if you play full warriors (or a baseline staunch defenders for everyone).

Nothing for a mixed army, because everyone can cover each other weaknesses.

Also, NOT GIVING POINT DROP but boosting the warscrolls. I didn't played stormcast to be as numerous as everyone. I want to fight at 1v3 and be able to win. I want elite warriors. Why the hell are 6 gryph-hound as expensive as 10 arbdoys ??? Why are liberators 100 pts each ? Keep the point cost, slap one more wound and/or attack to everyone and half of the work is done.

Also, rework the celestant prime. His special rule sound cool but a model that need to NOT BE HERE to be powerful enough to have some impact is complete retardation.

Those that you called "warrior" are actually Strike chambers and they consist of Warrior, Exemplar and Harbringer chambers

And I really like the chamber-based battle trait idea, I'd say, for Strike Chambers it should be +1 CP at the begining of the game if general is Lord-Celestant, 6++ to Liberators and Paladins and reroll 1s to wound with missle weapons for Judicators and Prosecutors if enemy unit is within 3" of Liberator or Paladin unit

[Mikosan]

19 hours ago, chord said:

I agree 110%.  They must hate the Celestant Prime.  At least drop his points to 200.  Or make him worth his current point value.  Maybe reduce bravery by 1 on all enemy units while prime is in the celestial realm.  They are worried he is going to drop down and whup them.  

Yeah I really don't get what they are seeing with his rules to merit 340 points.  Have they really not noticed that nobody is taking him to events, like ever.  Keeping him off the table in order to get a couple more attacks is just maddening to me. For 340 he should just get 6 attacks base and a 5++ save.  Rend -3 and damage 3 was great 3 years ago but the game has moved on and 8 wounds with no save after save or MW protection is just a nut punch.  Maybe come up with a whole new thing to replace the celestial realm power up too, it is just a dumb rule imo.  I want him on the table, its why I bought and painted him up, lol.  I let them know all this at length in the community survey but they didn't listen, I couldn't have been the only one.

Having said all that, hands down my favorite SC model  

[CommissarRotke]

8 hours ago, XReN said:

Those that you called "warrior" are actually Strike chambers and they consist of Warrior, Exemplar and Harbringer chambers

And I really like the chamber-based battle trait idea, I'd say, for Strike Chambers it should be +1 CP at the begining of the game if general is Lord-Celestant, 6++ to Liberators and Paladins and reroll 1s to wound with missle weapons for Judicators and Prosecutors if enemy unit is within 3" of Liberator or Paladin unit

Went to the wiki to double check this, we have THREE more unopened chambers

• Ruination Chamber
• Covenant Chamber
• Logister Chamber

-Ruination sounds like it must be Artillery, possibly larger city-destroying spells? Maybe some actual behemoths from Azyr's wilds too.
-Covenant immediately strikes me as a Sisters mirror, probably a healing chamber? Whatever it is, I'm down for all ladycast armies.
-Logister may not have a board presence besides support heroes, as logistics is more battle table than battle field.

I really need Ruination and Covenant chambers to be opened...

[ledha]

23 hours ago, XReN said:

Those that you called "warrior" are actually Strike chambers and they consist of Warrior, Exemplar and Harbringer chambers

And I really like the chamber-based battle trait idea, I'd say, for Strike Chambers it should be +1 CP at the begining of the game if general is Lord-Celestant, 6++ to Liberators and Paladins and reroll 1s to wound with missle weapons for Judicators and Prosecutors if enemy unit is within 3" of Liberator or Paladin unit

Well, the main stormcast chamber i've found is the warrior chamber( they have a mega bataillion), so i used this. They never use the name "strike chamber" in the battletome, which is even bigger, and in the same way, we talk about extremis or sacrosanct chamber, not "tempest" chamber, which regroup vanguard/extremis/sacrosanct.

Thanks for the hindsight anyway ❤️

Edited June 29, 2019 by ledha

[The World Tree]

One of the things I find most peculiar about SCE is Scions of the Storm. It was actively bad in AOS1, now decent. However, they still don't capture the image and feel of an elite strike force. I'd much prefer if you declare pre-deployment who's deploying in the sky and the only 'drops' you have are those that actually deploy on the table at the beginning. It is a small change (and has a downside - your opponent will see what is going up/down) that gives SCE a slightly greater chance to finish deploying first, with the inherent tactical advantages for that. It feels more like a strike force that takes the initiative than a conventional force.

The alternative to this would be better battalions, perhaps ones with very minor advantages like GG's.

Edited June 29, 2019 by The World Tree