What advice would you give when playing AGAINST your own faction?

[Johnny Pestilens]

Skaven -

Monks: Shoot them, Spellcast them off, drop a heavy book on them...keep them at range and that's half the battle. Whittle the unit size down enough and they become much less killy.

Furnace/Bell: Ignore it, it's a trap, the Furnace in particular is more deadly than you realize and both are annoyingly survivable. Focus on the models around them and get them below 10 models within 6' and then they can't move, problem solved. Unless they are sat on an objective, then go and swarm them with bodies.

Grey Seer: Kill him asap, he's squishy but is the best caster!

Gnawholes: Mostly a distraction, unless the Skaven player us real good at packing bodies round them, you only have to worry about 1 model popping up, 9' away. You'll be fine!

[XReN]

For my FEC list:

Zone out summons/ghoul patrol when deploing, you don't want 700 points popping up in your backline

Prioritise killing heroes first and really focus them, if you can shoot down arch regent before he summons and buffs - you are already at a good start

NEVER let a Chalice of Ushoran to simply sit in the middle of a brawl and negate all damage done to my troops

Screen properly, monsters deal a lot of damage and have a lot of reach with maw attacks

Do not underestimate summoned KNIGHTS speed, a unit summoned from my table edge turn 1 is almost guaranteed to get into combat in your deployment zone turn 3

As more general tips:

Don't be greedy and finish units off, they can't  be returned.

Don't overextend, FEC can pick you off unit by unit easily

If you struggle heavily, bring counters like doppelganger cloak (vs Gristlegore), dedicated anti-horde units, good dispells, movement penalties, good shooting.

[Fisherdwarf]

Against Free Peoples, you want to be mobile and play for objectives. We usually have to set up formations of units in order to get any use of our synergies like Great Companies and Hold the Line. This makes the army very static, and it is difficult for me to take defended positions effectively. Force me to charge you: I lose most of my buffs and synergies.

Fear the Griffon. With a good threat range and powerful offense as a base, it's a heavy hammer to smash you against the infantry anvil. With an artefact (gets a 2+ save) and a CP (+1 to hit and charge), it will munch your general/behemoth. If it runs Broken Shackles artefact it will retreat into your backline and end your fun. No defense against MWs, though, so try and slip some through before it gets to you.

Kill the Freeguild General(s). Hold the Line is an incredible power multiplier that affects large portions of the army.  They can get strong saves with cover and traits, but at 5 wounds they're fairly vulnerable. Get them with magic or accurate shooting asap.

Do not underestimate Hold the Line. +1 to hit AND wound for THREE units. Yeah, I can't move, but if you charge me that's not a problem. Big blocks of swordsmen are also a lot tankier than you think, making sure I get to hit you back. I've heard Free Peoples being compared to a sturdy shield that, when struck, turns into a cannon. Also, Hold the Line is all attacks, making handgunners and crossbowmen deadly.

Always try to remember my charge reactions. Those unit formations are there for a reason. Unless I make a mistake, you can't charge any of my units without getting shot doing it. Look up the rules and restrictions in the GHB and try to figure out a way to work around it. Or take the damage and hope for the best.

[Nos]

Stormcast:

Stormcast are Come at Me Bro, the Army. Arguably even kinkier than Slaanesh because *we want you to hit us, hit us harder, more*. Straight up love being in fights. If you kill us before we can fight you or move somewhere we can’t fight you, we are sad.

MW- MW’s are the bane of any high, cost high armour, small number of models unit, so an army made up of them doesn't do so well 

Manoeuvre and Attrition- SC in general hit hard In/win most pound for pound fights. They also hold up well even in pretty unfavourable combats, but they do so at the cost of being very expensive punching bags. 

If you can trap a unit in a fight  it generally won’t have the model number to contest anything, and due to the cost of SC a unit that isn’t blowing things apart is a lost investment, unless it’s a screen, and they tend to be pretty obvious (5 Man Liberators, and Aetherwings especially, best screening unit in game).

SC don’t have much in the way of reliably getting to where they need to either and a very under par Summoning option. Movement is the one thing you can control/mess up more than anything else and the second the board gets wide and I have to walk places with an army not suited for getting around, I start to worry. 

Basically commit to a long attritional game and most armies have more advantages than SC . I’ve beaten aggressive DOK and FEC armies which went for a quick wipe simply because SC are really good in fights, especially defensive fights, and the dice went well and I fronted up. But when the same armies play objectives and make me have to move and work, that’s far harder.

 

Edited June 19, 2019 by Nos

[Coyote]

*This* kind of thread is what I’ve missed most, can we ha Tactic vs forum with a thread for each Army?

[Carnelian]

This is a great thread. Reading it reminds me what a cool and varied game we have! 

[Coyote]

In the old days, there were Websites dedicated by fans for each army and each of those pages (various degrees of depth) went in great depth debating analysis for everything.  Sine restarting the hobby, this site is the best and only regular site I’ve found for my addiction.  There are forums dedicated for each army, but difficult to find more pure strategy “against” certain armies without going deep.  

That’s why this thread is awesome, and almost wish I could see “So you buddy just picked up (Insert Army) and now wants to throw down...”.

Or “What to expect when playing (Insert Army)”. Would help to prepare for tournaments.

[Televiper11]

Best tactic against Legion Of Azgorh? Forfeit immediately! (jk)

In all seriousness, take out our artillery stat.

[Qrow]

11 minutes ago, Televiper11 said:

Best tactic against Legion Of Azgorh? Forfeit immediately! (jk)

In all seriousness, take out our artillery stat.

And shoot the fireborn; they have terrible bravery and are faster than most of our heroes, so it can be difficult to keep them in range for inspiring presence. Even just one dead fireborn can cause another 4 wound model to disappear from a bravery role of 6. However, if they get into combat they will hurt you.

[Televiper11]

1 minute ago, Qrow said:

And shoot the fireborn; they have terrible bravery and are faster than most of our heroes, so it can be difficult to keep them in range for inspiring presence. Even just one dead fireborn can cause another 4 wound model to disappear from a bravery role of 6. However, if they get into combat they will hurt you.

This is particularly true if you have a horde army. Also if I bring my Chaos Sorcerer Lord ally, kill him quick as his spell buffs the Fireborn and makes them truly devastating.

[TheCovenLord]

Darkling Covens:

 

Ignore the sorceress on dragon if there is one. She is absolutely just a distraction and melts like butter. She is not tanky (5+ save) and her own attacks are pathetic. The dragons breath attack is worse on average than normal dragon breath and her dragons attacks suffer from hitting on 4's. Her known spell is worse than the on-foot version and due to her movespeed she is rarely in range of sacrifice to boost her casting. 

 

Do not engage blobs of executioners in combat without whittling them down a bit. 6's for 2 mortals is nothing to sneeze at. Be aware, it is old wording so bonuses to hit, like the hurricanum I ally in,  give huge effectiveness leaps. 

 

Target the sorceresses and hurricanum. Hurricanum is keeping my troops hitting on 2's and bumping that mortal output from the executioners as well as generating some ranged attacks/spells. The sorceresses are pretty cost effective and their known spell is a mortal and -1 to hit for an enemy unit which is desperately needed for how squishy your units are.

 

Tie up the block(s) of black guard I use to hold objectives before they hit that objective. They have a large unit size and are tough to make run with all the bonuses DC gets to leadership (ie: sac one dude for immunity and +2 bravery for other units in range, high natural bravery etc.)

 

I only use bleakswords for chaff or sacrifice fodder. They melt like butter and their output is always subpar. Ignore them for the most part unless you really struggle to unbind in which case shoot them off the board. 

 

The army really struggles with opponents with bonuses to unbind (nagash/arkhan), units that 'explode' on death like plague monks or witch aelves shields as the executioners are precious killing power in an army of noodle arms.  Movement shenanigans like shackles and vortex are very tough to beat out as it messes with our high movement and the 1/turn run and charge and so is gristlegores/slaanesh strike first ability which demolishes our expensive troops before they can swing in. All of our troops worth taking are expensive and losing them to cheap mortals/shooting/not choosing engagements usually leads to a loss as each model lost that isnt bleaksword chaff is significantly more valuable than other battleline troops. 

Edited June 21, 2019 by TheCovenLord

[Televiper11]

Order Draconis:

You want to avoid our charges at all cost. Opponents who bring Soulsnare Shackles and/or Prismatic Palisade do well at this. Put a lot of tarpitting chaff up front to bog us down. I usually only carry one ally wizard -- kill him quick!

[Lucky Snake Eyes]

For my slaanesh:

- Shoot the heroes, you can go for spells but if an enrapturess and/or epitome are in range your gonna have some trouble getting off your damage spells short of running nagash himself

- you don't need rend, but piling in first with high damage or high volume weapons dumpster 90% of our units due to poor saves and us no longer having as many hit debuffs as we used to

- mind your positioning around our heroes, either go in with multiple units so only one gets locus, or tie them up with something expendable with single wound models while your damage dealers mess up our battleline

 

For Legions of Nagash:

- for magi heavy lists, kill the mortis engine and corpse carts to remove some of the +1's

- snipe necros as they are a force multiplier

- melee arkhan as his bones are brittle

- for vampire heavy lists, swamp the heroes in chaff

- counter skeleton spam with stuff like Hearthguard berserkers who can counter swarm and dumpster with the right support

 

For Kharadron overlords:

- we're deceptively vulnerable to shooting

- Our boats have trash saves and are only propped up by a multitude of small heals

- with the exception of endrinriggers and brokk, we can't stab worth ******

-hit debuffs ruin our ships due to them having single shot cannons with 4+ to hit, we spend too much effort trying to buff our hit chances so killing off lord ordinator allies or our mhornar general makes our ships close to useless

- be ready for the clown car, once we drop 80% of our army on one objective using a boat, just run fast units onto other objectives because 90% your cav will kill whatever we left on the other objectives and it will take too long for the rest of our army to turn and kill you while we're tied up putting lackluster shooting into your main troops

 

[Warfiend]

Against Ironjawz there are a few things that are VERY important....

1 > Forget objectives, lets be real here, objectives are overrated and any Ironjawz player worth his salt will understand this. By not doing what he thinks you're going to do you will throw him off balance increasing your odds.

2 > Leave enough space between your units, You know that big burly dragon-thing most Ironjawz players field; it's big, and thus Ironjawz players believe having a lot of space to move this beast around is a good thing, but they're wrong, it gets tired easily. If you leave enough space between your units it'll be asleep by the end of turn 3. PS protip: If you have a lot of low wound count heroes line them all in a straight line, 2-4 inches between each of them depending on their base size; this will confuse the Mawkrusha.

3 > Don't bother with mortal wounds, or magic... Ironjawz are the strongest and toughest of orruks, they shrug of mortal wounds like they're nothing. When this happens any victory that can be achieved no matter how great will feel very minor. Same goes for magic, take it but don't use it, all in order to confuse your opponent.

4 > Gitz are irrelevant, sometimes Ironjawz players like to bring some mushroom hatted Gitz with them, but their only purpose is to generate Command Points and cast weak magic. Orruks are stupid and loud; most often their commands are not heard, other times they are simply ignored. In short, just ignore the Gitz.

Anyways with these four simple tips anyone should be able to reliably beat Ironjawz...

Edited June 21, 2019 by Warfiend

[Chumphammer]

Anymore tips on Skaven tide?

Like how to deal with Stormfiends lol

[Euphanism]

Maggotkin of Nurgle Official CDC Survival Guide

•  Be careful not to let anything valuable get within 3" of a Plaguebearer horde, or be prepared to have it stuck there all game. They hit like wet noodles without spell buffs, but in packs of 30 they are -1 to hit (-2 in shooting) and have the standard Nurgle 5+ save if anything makes it past their first save.

 

• If you see a Festus, shoot a Festus. Shoot him hard. Otherwise he'll give a unit -1 to saves for the GAME, and if he's backpacking a Great Unclean One (Like Rottigus) he'll also be healing the big guy every turn. If you manage to snag him in melee he'll crumble, but he's usually right next to something far more dangerous in close combat.

 

• Blightkings have exploding attacks on 6s, which means any -1 to hit spell/ability/stiff breeze will turn them into a big boring pile of wasted potential. Especially if they are not run in the battalion that gives them rend. Really cool models though. 

 

• The Thricefold Befoulement battalion (three Great Unclean Ones) is really strong, but it's also more than half of a 2k list. Stick them in a pile of Stabbas or Skinks and they'll never touch an objective and you're free to move about the board waving at them.

 

• Standing next to a Feculant Gnarlmaw (the tree) will possibly cause D3 damage to a unit, but it will also deny Nurgle his sweet, sweet contagion points. It's worth Clanrat or two to prevent any summoning for a turn more.

 

• On the subject of summoning, beware the surprise Beast of Nurgle. He won't do much in damage, but can nab an unoccupied objective, and effectively tie up two units by retreating and attacking each turn. More irritating than deadly but a skilled Nurgle player can use it to lock down two units until you finally kill the sluggo.

 

• Plague Monks are the opposite of everything else Nurgle has - lots of damage with no real survivability. Reduce their numbers to below 30 and they're no where near as deadly though.

 

• Yes, that Verminlord Corrupter does have the Sword of Judgement, and yes, he is coming for your biggest Heros. Screen him or just shoot him down.

 

 

[lordreaven448]

On 6/24/2019 at 3:10 PM, Euphanism said:

Maggotkin of Nurgle Official CDC Survival Guide

•  Be careful not to let anything valuable get within 3" of a Plaguebearer horde, or be prepared to have it stuck there all game. They hit like wet noodles without spell buffs, but in packs of 30 they are -1 to hit (-2 in shooting) and have the standard Nurgle 5+ save if anything makes it past their first save.

 

• If you see a Festus, shoot a Festus. Shoot him hard. Otherwise he'll give a unit -1 to saves for the GAME, and if he's backpacking a Great Unclean One (Like Rottigus) he'll also be healing the big guy every turn. If you manage to snag him in melee he'll crumble, but he's usually right next to something far more dangerous in close combat.

 

• Blightkings have exploding attacks on 6s, which means any -1 to hit spell/ability/stiff breeze will turn them into a big boring pile of wasted potential. Especially if they are not run in the battalion that gives them rend. Really cool models though. 

 

• The Thricefold Befoulement battalion (three Great Unclean Ones) is really strong, but it's also more than half of a 2k list. Stick them in a pile of Stabbas or Skinks and they'll never touch an objective and you're free to move about the board waving at them.

 

• Standing next to a Feculant Gnarlmaw (the tree) will possibly cause D3 damage to a unit, but it will also deny Nurgle his sweet, sweet contagion points. It's worth Clanrat or two to prevent any summoning for a turn more.

 

• On the subject of summoning, beware the surprise Beast of Nurgle. He won't do much in damage, but can nab an unoccupied objective, and effectively tie up two units by retreating and attacking each turn. More irritating than deadly but a skilled Nurgle player can use it to lock down two units until you finally kill the sluggo.

 

• Plague Monks are the opposite of everything else Nurgle has - lots of damage with no real survivability. Reduce their numbers to below 30 and they're no where near as deadly though.

 

• Yes, that Verminlord Corrupter does have the Sword of Judgement, and yes, he is coming for your biggest Heros. Screen him or just shoot him down.

 

Gnarlmaws do d3 damage?

Edited June 25, 2019 by lordreaven448

[Euphanism]

15 hours ago, lordreaven448 said:

Gnarlmaws do d3 damage?

Yep, at the start of the Hero phase, any unit within 3" takes 1 mortal wound on a 4+ unless they have the Nurgle keyword. Its a pretty low risk though for the fact that you're denying the Nurgle player D3 contagion points during his turn.

Edited June 26, 2019 by Euphanism

[Unit1126PLL]

Against my Ironweld Arsenal list, which is different from @Double Misfire's in a few significant ways:

1) Ignore the cannons. Seriously, unlike @Double Misfire, the cannons in my army are a red herring and rarely do much of the heavy lifting. Instead:

2) Kill the Steam Tanks or their support elements. Eliminating the Lord Ordinator and/or the Celestial Hurricanum will shut down the Steam Tank Deathstar in a hurry. The tanks themselves do most of the heavy lifting.

[Planar]

Nighthaunt

- Mostly I will avoid to fight you. I am weak in face to face combat unless I create very favourable odds through hero support and use of command points.  Instead I prefer to use my mobility and numbers to win games on objectives. Every fight you lock me in is a problem for me. If you let me create the conditions and pick my fights I can be very dangerous. If you deny me that, I am trash at fighting.

- Even my best units are glass cannon that will crumble if they fail to destroy you in the first charge.

- KILL my Dreadblade Harrow general. He will be partying around teleporting huge units all over the table and dictating board control. This is how I win games, by avoiding big fights and by being faster and more numerous than most opponents.

- Trick me to play in open boards with sparse terrain (good luck with GH19). The more packed with terrain the board is, the best for my high mobility all flying army. I win games mostly due to mobility and board control. Packed terrain amplifies that

-Keep your armored guys away from my myrmour bansheess

-Do not be afraid of my resurrection abilities. They are largely ineffective and will not do much. I have learned not to count on them, s don't spent too much effort countering them. this is not a LoN army. Maybe they only exception to this is when you see Lady O babysitting my Spirit Hosts. In that case simply shoot her down, she is very squishy and goes down easily.

- Also don't be afraid of my bravery debuffs. They don't do what they are supposed to.

-Did I mention killing my dreadblade harrow general?

[Skreech Verminking]

On 6/24/2019 at 5:00 PM, Chumphammer said:

Anymore tips on Skaven tide?

Like how to deal with Stormfiends lol

Yes, if you think you see a shadow that could fit the image of such a beast, start running!

If you have direct eye contact 

You can basically call yourselves dead.

theres nothing that can save you from  a ratogre aiming his Gatling gun down on you.

your best bet is to pray for something and die painfully happy.

 

In the game Stormfiends have a very low bravery.

kill 2 of them and most of the unit will flee.

If your unlucky the very bulky ratogre unit will be battleshock immune.

still there’s nothing wrong beating them down in combat or the shooting phase.

they may have a ton of wounds each, but if you have a unit that  can deal around 20 or more wounds you’ll be rather save against these guys.

 

 

Edited June 26, 2019 by Skreech Verminking

[Battlefury]

Non demonic Khorne:

1* Shoot the guy with the big bold banner

2* Shoot the priests, they won't resist with their 5+ save

3* Shoot the fat guy with the whip

Mostly, that would already result in GG, but if the Khorne player still resists and your done with shooting, then do this:

4* Is it riding on juggernauts? Charge it before it charges you!

5* Cripple each unit a bit, like 50% and then ignore it.

6* Only go in for the Skull Reapers, when you know, you can slay then all, or at least 3/5

7* Manouver around the Bloodthirsters as long as possible! They are unreliable and won't contest any objective.

8* Don't let the Khorgoraths get your small units! They're a chaff unit that destroys you!

That's basically the 8 rules, that will make Khorne players resignate the most battles.
You should not be afraid of retreating, and you should manouver around the units, as best as you can.

Shoot! Shoot! Shoot!

And if you are Skaven: Warplightning Boretex = instant GG.