Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
RuneBrush

The great big Generals Handbook 2019 Discussion Topic

Recommended Posts

I can understand that.  Though I looked at the narrative event organizer events (there was one at adepticon) and a lot of the guys there were just running tournament lists like that and that seemed fine.  Which always confused me for the longest time because the only difference I saw in their events and tournament events were they were running special scenarios.  The lists and expectations were roughly the same though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Dead Scribe said:

I can understand that.  Though I looked at the narrative event organizer events (there was one at adepticon) and a lot of the guys there were just running tournament lists like that and that seemed fine.  Which always confused me for the longest time because the only difference I saw in their events and tournament events were they were running special scenarios.  The lists and expectations were roughly the same though.

I didn't play at Adepticon, but I do routinely play at local narrative events (e.g. Prime Dominion, Animosity, and NOVA) and the presence of "tournament lists" is significantly depressed... heck, even the tournament factions are absent.

Last year at NOVA 2018 in the AOS Narrative we had:
Nurgle x2 (pretty competitive but not tournament winning)
Myself as Slaanesh (before the battletome obviously)
Norsca (Slaves to Darkness)
Stormcast Eternals
Spiderkin (or whatever the grots on spiders are called)
Seraphon
... balls, I can't even remember the rest.

The point is that we had a ton of fun. The lists were 500 points for the prologue, 1000 points for the main battles, and 1500 points for the final battles before the last scenario, if I recall correctly. You got a custom hero you could spend in-universe currency to improve, and a custom "airship" that you could also spend the currency on upgrades for. The final mission was an airship race that culminated in the confrontation of a Godbeast descending from the heavens above... 

*ahem* sorry. I really enjoyed it. I guess the point is that the Adepticon stuff you cite is contrary to my own experience with narrative games, and if true, means I likely would not have enjoyed the event.

Edited by Unit1126PLL
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t know what kind of player I am honestly. 

I guess I hope armies can be point coated in a way to get a functional sliver of the armies as advertised and win at least some of my games. 

What I mean by as advertised is all the artwork in the Battletomes of mixed forces all together and marching to war. 

Idoneth pictures aren’t exclusively eels, it’s eels and sharks and leviadons and heroes and Thrall’s and reavers. I want to play that and not get absolutely wrecked every single time I play. 

I also want players who have that mindset of just bringing what’s cool and varied armies instead of the cutting edge min/max choices 🤷‍♂️

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I don’t know what kind of player I am honestly. 

I guess I hope armies can be point coated in a way to get a functional sliver of the armies as advertised and win at least some of my games. 

What I mean by as advertised is all the artwork in the Battletomes of mixed forces all together and marching to war. 

Idoneth pictures aren’t exclusively eels, it’s eels and sharks and leviadons and heroes and Thrall’s and reavers. I want to play that and not get absolutely wrecked every single time I play. 

I also want players who have that mindset of just bringing what’s cool and varied armies instead of the cutting edge min/max choices 🤷‍♂️


You're likely someone who'll get more out of the game's Narrative play style!

Think of it this way: Matched Play is MMA. Narrative is Pro Wrestling.

MMA is two people doing similarly structured, hyper optimised things with a focus on extreme efficiency and making life as not nice for the other person as humanly possible.

Pro Wrestling is two dudes putting on a show. It is a social contract to get in a fake fight with someone you've maybe only just met, and to make it as entertaining as you possibly can.

Does this mean Narrative play is fake? Heck yeah it does, Narrative Play is putting on a show, telling a story, just for the two of you, and for a show to truly become a Spectacle, it usually has to be worked.

Being good at this kind of game is a skill unto itself. It entails pulling each other's punches, giving the other guy breathing room so you don't pull the AoS equivalent of stiffing him in the nose and having him bleed all over everything for the rest of the match. It involves an inherent degree of trust in your 'opponent' to do the same thing. It might also involve not being too obvious about doing these things lest you start making your opponent feel bad because it's obvious you're going easy!

It's certainly not for everyone: most competitive minded people simply cannot comprehend the narrative approach when you try and sell it to em. But there's a pretty damn big subsection of the playerbase that can enjoy it, I suggest you go find em.

 

  • Like 13
  • Thanks 2
  • LOVE IT! 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No need to make a straight line between narrative and competative. I mostly play competative and at tournaments but almost every game has narrative elements. Eg: You make a joke about something unjusioal happening like roling a double six with your gobbo mage to unbind the opponents LoC 11 casting. Small pockets of narrative can loosen the tention that could build up during competative gaming and I for one liket that.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, soak314 said:


You're likely someone who'll get more out of the game's Narrative play style!

Think of it this way: Matched Play is MMA. Narrative is Pro Wrestling.

MMA is two people doing similarly structured, hyper optimised things with a focus on extreme efficiency and making life as not nice for the other person as humanly possible.

Pro Wrestling is two dudes putting on a show. It is a social contract to get in a fake fight with someone you've maybe only just met, and to make it as entertaining as you possibly can.

Does this mean Narrative play is fake? Heck yeah it does, Narrative Play is putting on a show, telling a story, just for the two of you, and for a show to truly become a Spectacle, it usually has to be worked.

Being good at this kind of game is a skill unto itself. It entails pulling each other's punches, giving the other guy breathing room so you don't pull the AoS equivalent of stiffing him in the nose and having him bleed all over everything for the rest of the match. It involves an inherent degree of trust in your 'opponent' to do the same thing. It might also involve not being too obvious about doing these things lest you start making your opponent feel bad because it's obvious you're going easy!

It's certainly not for everyone: most competitive minded people simply cannot comprehend the narrative approach when you try and sell it to em. But there's a pretty damn big subsection of the playerbase that can enjoy it, I suggest you go find em.

 

Best analogy ever !

  • Like 1
  • LOVE IT! 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

There’s a wide variety of people who play narrative, matched and open play - many play all 3. The beauty of AoS2 imo is that the difference rules-wise between them are so few that you can easily jump between them or mix them up without getting confused.

While there’s been a lot of chat here about top tier competitive tournament players it’s worth considering that lots of people go to these events who don’t just always go for the top tier lists and happily enjoy seeing how far they can get with an unusual list. I always enjoy hearing their stories.

On the flip side I know of lots of narrative players who aren’t into events but who love creating stories on their casual games.

Whats great about the General’s Handbook is that the new content and ideas are so easily ported between all the different ways to play that it’s easy to mix and match to create truly unique games, however you want to enjoy them.

(I wish GW could do that with their other game systems as well).

Edited by stickybluetoffee
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Wargammers,

At least one question unclarified (for me):

Is it correct, if i hire for example Mazarall the Bucher or a(n) (Forgeworld) Exalted Greater Daemon of Khorne (Monstrous Arcanum units, see Pitched Battle Profile) for a Blades of Khorne army (contain other models only with mark/keyword of Khorne); - meaning the Khorne Allegiance entirely unavailable, but instead must be used the general Grand Allegiance Chaos rules in Matched Play? 
---
The "Monstrous Arcanum" not an ally and any unit not to be a mercenary to BOK, right? Furthermore: mercenary units don’t count to your allegiance, can’t be your general, cannot use or benefit from your allegiance abilities and can’t be a named character and in pitched battle, your allies points allocation must be shared between allies and mercenaries. 

(In 2018 Blades of Khorne battletome Allegiance: wrote this: "If all the starting units and warscroll battalions in your army follow KHORNE  - including any units that you assign the Khorne keyword to during set-up - then your army has the KHORNE allegiance.")

Its - above - relevant now, in GH2019?

Thanks,

Agis

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Agis said:

Hello Wargammers,

At least one question unclarified (for me):

Is it correct, if i hire for example Mazarall the Bucher or a(n) (Forgeworld) Exalted Greater Daemon of Khorne (Monstrous Arcanum units, see Pitched Battle Profile) for a Blades of Khorne army (contain other models only with mark/keyword of Khorne); - meaning the Khorne Allegiance entirely unavailable, but instead must be used the general Grand Allegiance Chaos rules in Matched Play? 
---
The "Monstrous Arcanum" not an ally and any unit not to be a mercenary to BOK, right? Furthermore: mercenary units don’t count to your allegiance, can’t be your general, cannot use or benefit from your allegiance abilities and can’t be a named character and in pitched battle, your allies points allocation must be shared between allies and mercenaries. 

(In 2018 Blades of Khorne battletome Allegiance: wrote this: "If all the starting units and warscroll battalions in your army follow KHORNE  - including any units that you assign the Khorne keyword to during set-up - then your army has the KHORNE allegiance.")

Its - above - relevant now, in GH2019?

Thanks,

Agis

 

If the unit has the key word khorne you can use them in a blades of khorne army. They are not mercenaries, allies or whatever else.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Retro said:

If the unit has the key word khorne you can use them in a blades of khorne army. They are not mercenaries, allies or whatever else.

Adding to that: Monstrum Arcanum is not an faction. It doesnt matter where the rules are coming from. All that matters are the keywords. Everything that has (or can get) the KHORNE keyword can be part of a Blades of Khorne army. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Gecktron said:

Adding to that: Monstrum Arcanum is not an faction. It doesnt matter where the rules are coming from. All that matters are the keywords. Everything that has (or can get) the KHORNE keyword can be part of a Blades of Khorne army. 

First of all, thanks 4 the quick answers ;)

@Gecktron:And this equal to, the part of the Blades of Khorne Allegiance, right?

From GH2019 (Pitched Battle Profiles): "ALLIES
At the end of each Grand Alliance
section you will find an Allies table
that lists the eligible allies for the
factions that belong to that Grand
Alliance. A unit that has any of the
keywords listed on the Allies table
on its warscroll can be taken as an
allied unit by an army from that
faction. For example, a Stormcast
Eternals army can take any unit
with the ORDER keyword as an
allied unit."

The Question is: That unit/model which share with the same Keyword, for example: Mazarall the Burcher from Monstrous Arcanum is part of the Blades of Khorne Allegiance AND Army?

....Or Colossal Squig to Gloomspite Gitz OR Skaven Warlord on Brood horror to Skaventide army...and so on, remain part of the Allegiance. Not an ally or whatever else, because M.A. not a faction neither in Matched Play.

Where (page) can I find this rule in up2date GH2019 or/and official Corebook?

BR,

Agis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/25/2019 at 4:23 PM, Dead Scribe said:

Its a difficult proposal for a lot of people to decouple from competitive mindsets in games like this.  It does take a certain type of person to be able to enjoy the game in a non competitive "open" format I've found.

Occasionally, a friend and I play a game where we write each other's lists going for the worst unit options based on models available.  It's amazing how quickly you run out of poor units and are forced to give your opponent better and better ones.  Have some parameters like, say, a minimum of 2 heroes or maximum of 2 of each warscroll for example and you're good to go.  It can make for very interesting and challenging games - Ah, the Day my General was an Orruk Bully :).

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Agis said:

First of all, thanks 4 the quick answers ;)

@Gecktron:And this equal to, the part of the Blades of Khorne Allegiance, right?

From GH2019 (Pitched Battle Profiles): "ALLIES
At the end of each Grand Alliance
section you will find an Allies table
that lists the eligible allies for the
factions that belong to that Grand
Alliance. A unit that has any of the
keywords listed on the Allies table
on its warscroll can be taken as an
allied unit by an army from that
faction. For example, a Stormcast
Eternals army can take any unit
with the ORDER keyword as an
allied unit."

The Question is: That unit/model which share with the same Keyword, for example: Mazarall the Burcher from Monstrous Arcanum is part of the Blades of Khorne Allegiance AND Army?

....Or Colossal Squig to Gloomspite Gitz OR Skaven Warlord on Brood horror to Skaventide army...and so on, remain part of the Allegiance. Not an ally or whatever else, because M.A. not a faction neither in Matched Play.

Where (page) can I find this rule in up2date GH2019 or/and official Corebook?

BR,

Agis

Forget Monstrum Arcanum completly. That doesnt matter. The book where something is published in doesnt matter AT ALL. Only keywords matter. 

 

Everything with keyword KHORNE can be part of a Khorne army/allegiance. A Chaos Warrior with the Mark of Khorne, Skarbrand and the FW Blood Thirster are all equaly part of a Khorne force. 

Same goes for every other Keyword like SKAVENTIDE or GLOOMSPITE GITS. 

You can find that in every Battletome at the start of the allegiance part where they define what keywords determine your allegiance. 

Edited by Gecktron
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Gecktron said:

Forget Monstrum Arcanum completly. That doesnt matter. The book where something is published in doesnt matter AT ALL. Only keywords matter. 

 

Everything with keyword KHORNE can be part of a Khorne army/allegiance. A Chaos Warrior with the Mark of Khorne, Skarbrand and the FW Blood Thirster are all equaly part of a Khorne force. 

Same goes for every other Keyword like SKAVENTIDE or GLOOMSPITE GITS. 

You can find that in every Battletome at the start of the allegiance part where they define what keywords determine your allegiance. 

Ok. :) I'm found it in Corebook-> Allegiance Abilites p242: "An army can have allegiance to a
faction instead of a Grand Alliance
if all the units in the army have the
keyword for that faction, including
any units that you assign a keyword
to during set-up. For example, if
all of the units in an army have the
STORMCAST ETERNAL keyword, then the army can have allegiance to
the Stormcast Eternals faction, and
would be referred to as a Stormcast
Eternal army."

...and thanks for your help Gecktron. :)

BR,

Agis

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it me missing something or did the khorne dragon (vorgaroth) loose its matched play points? Can't find it in the profiles.. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay didn't see this mentioned but they changed the rules on battalions. Now if you can have the models you can have the battalion. Thoughts? 

 

This makes the 'meta' factions way better. (Those factions made up of multiple different armies, such as lethisian defender or Legion of Grief from forbidden power)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, Tohshi Ydithe said:

Okay didn't see this mentioned but they changed the rules on battalions. Now if you can have the models you can have the battalion. Thoughts? 

 

This makes the 'meta' factions way better. (Those factions made up of multiple different armies, such as lethisian defender or Legion of Grief from forbidden power)

Where is this said? As a LoG player, I would love to be able to quote this and take battalions

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tohshi Ydithe said:

Okay didn't see this mentioned but they changed the rules on battalions. Now if you can have the models you can have the battalion. Thoughts? 

  

This makes the 'meta' factions way better. (Those factions made up of multiple different armies, such as lethisian defender or Legion of Grief from forbidden power)

Do you have a reference for this. The wording for Warscroll Battalions in Pitched Battle hasn't changed in years and we still have the Following FAQ points:

Corerules FAQ page 8

Quote

Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies
and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the
army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the
same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two
different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army
that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units,
for example)?
A: Yes. The faction a warscroll battalion belongs to is
shown on its warscroll, above the title of the battalion.
In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the
Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of. Warscroll
battalions that share the same allegiance as an army
can always be taken as part of the army, and if they
include any allied units, these units do not count against
the limits on the number of allies the army can have
(or against the points limit that can be spent on allies
in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll
battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the
army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the
limits on the number of allies the army can have (and
the points for the battalion and the units in it count
against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a
Pitched Battle).

And this one.

Quote

Q: Some warscroll battalions included in battletomes do not
have a faction listed above their title. How do I determine which
faction they belong to for the purposes of allegiance abilities?
A: The battalion belongs to the battletome’s faction.
For example, the warscroll battalions in Battletome:
Stormcast Eternals are part of the Stormcast
Eternals faction.

Both FAQ points basicly say that Battalions would be Allies in case of Lethisian Defender or Legion of Grief because there are no rules that say that the Battalion will be part of those Allegiances, like in the case of Legions of Nagash or the Errata of Beasts of Chaos.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

Do you have a reference for this. The wording for Warscroll Battalions in Pitched Battle hasn't changed in years and we still have the Following FAQ points:

Corerules FAQ page 8

And this one.

Both FAQ points basicly say that Battalions would be Allies in case of Lethisian Defender or Legion of Grief because there are no rules that say that the Battalion will be part of those Allegiances, like in the case of Legions of Nagash or the Errata of Beasts of Chaos.

Page 54 of the 2019 GHB under the battalions section. The GHB, being the latest publication, takes precedence over previous FAQs as far as I am aware; so until they reiterate those points in a new errata, Tohshi is correct.

 

Correction: it is worded exactly the same as the 2018 GHB, and will probably see the same errata as the previous one. Kinda dumb for GW to not actually fix the wording in the 2019 version.

Screenshot_20190630-205857_Adobe Acrobat.jpg

Edited by Qrow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Qrow said:

Page 54 of the 2019 GHB under the battalions section. The GHB, being the latest publication, takes precedence over previous FAQs as far as I am aware; so until they reiterate those points in a new errata, Tohshi is correct.

Screenshot_20190630-205857_Adobe Acrobat.jpg

The problem here is those rules basicly have the same wording since the first Generals Handbook (2016). There is no mentioning in those rules how they work with Allegiance only how they worked with the pitched Battle Point system.

Edited by EMMachine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

The problem here is those rules basicly have the same wording since the first Generals Handbook (2016). There is no mentioning in those rules how they work with Allegiance only how they wórked with the pitched Battle Point system.

Yeah, I was writing a correction in my previous post when your reply came through. It's really disappointing that GW doesn't incorperate their FAQs into the newer versions of the rules.

I mean, that is a very basic expectation when releasing an updated set of rules; any changes or clarifications made to older versions should be present natively in the newer version. Small gripe, but still frustrating.

Edited by Qrow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Qrow said:

Yeah, I was writing a correction in my previous post when your reply came through. It's really disappointing that GW doesn't incorperate their FAQs into the newer versions of the rules.

The mainproblem is those FAQ points doesn't have to do anything with Pitched Battle.

They are basicly answers for Page 17 of the Corerules (Allegiance Abilities, subpoint battalions). I really hate it either when they basicly change rules with an FAQ instead of using the Errata for this, changing the wording of the rule when they certainly have missed something.

Edited by EMMachine

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, EMMachine said:

The mainproblem is those FAQ points doesn't have to do anything with Pitched Battle.

They are basicly answers for Page 17 of the Corerules (Allegiance Abilities, subpoint battalions). I really hate it either when they basicly change rules with an FAQ instead of using the Errata for this, changing the wording of the rule.

My god, that is terrible. I just really want the forbidden power FAQ to come out, there are so many questions about the legion of grief that dramatically impact on the way it is played and we have no answers to any of them yet.

At this rate I'm not honestly sure if we will see the FP errata before the july errata for the newer battletomes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a quick question 

with the three new command abilities it doesn’t specify the old are still in place. They are still available through the core rules right? 

The new abilities are just matched play ‘ on top of the normal’ abilities 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...