soak314 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 2 hours ago, Ravinsild said: I don’t know what kind of player I am honestly. I guess I hope armies can be point coated in a way to get a functional sliver of the armies as advertised and win at least some of my games. What I mean by as advertised is all the artwork in the Battletomes of mixed forces all together and marching to war. Idoneth pictures aren’t exclusively eels, it’s eels and sharks and leviadons and heroes and Thrall’s and reavers. I want to play that and not get absolutely wrecked every single time I play. I also want players who have that mindset of just bringing what’s cool and varied armies instead of the cutting edge min/max choices 🤷♂️ You're likely someone who'll get more out of the game's Narrative play style! Think of it this way: Matched Play is MMA. Narrative is Pro Wrestling. MMA is two people doing similarly structured, hyper optimised things with a focus on extreme efficiency and making life as not nice for the other person as humanly possible. Pro Wrestling is two dudes putting on a show. It is a social contract to get in a fake fight with someone you've maybe only just met, and to make it as entertaining as you possibly can. Does this mean Narrative play is fake? Heck yeah it does, Narrative Play is putting on a show, telling a story, just for the two of you, and for a show to truly become a Spectacle, it usually has to be worked. Being good at this kind of game is a skill unto itself. It entails pulling each other's punches, giving the other guy breathing room so you don't pull the AoS equivalent of stiffing him in the nose and having him bleed all over everything for the rest of the match. It involves an inherent degree of trust in your 'opponent' to do the same thing. It might also involve not being too obvious about doing these things lest you start making your opponent feel bad because it's obvious you're going easy! It's certainly not for everyone: most competitive minded people simply cannot comprehend the narrative approach when you try and sell it to em. But there's a pretty damn big subsection of the playerbase that can enjoy it, I suggest you go find em. 13 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigwarus Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 No need to make a straight line between narrative and competative. I mostly play competative and at tournaments but almost every game has narrative elements. Eg: You make a joke about something unjusioal happening like roling a double six with your gobbo mage to unbind the opponents LoC 11 casting. Small pockets of narrative can loosen the tention that could build up during competative gaming and I for one liket that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pseudonyme Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 10 hours ago, soak314 said: You're likely someone who'll get more out of the game's Narrative play style! Think of it this way: Matched Play is MMA. Narrative is Pro Wrestling. MMA is two people doing similarly structured, hyper optimised things with a focus on extreme efficiency and making life as not nice for the other person as humanly possible. Pro Wrestling is two dudes putting on a show. It is a social contract to get in a fake fight with someone you've maybe only just met, and to make it as entertaining as you possibly can. Does this mean Narrative play is fake? Heck yeah it does, Narrative Play is putting on a show, telling a story, just for the two of you, and for a show to truly become a Spectacle, it usually has to be worked. Being good at this kind of game is a skill unto itself. It entails pulling each other's punches, giving the other guy breathing room so you don't pull the AoS equivalent of stiffing him in the nose and having him bleed all over everything for the rest of the match. It involves an inherent degree of trust in your 'opponent' to do the same thing. It might also involve not being too obvious about doing these things lest you start making your opponent feel bad because it's obvious you're going easy! It's certainly not for everyone: most competitive minded people simply cannot comprehend the narrative approach when you try and sell it to em. But there's a pretty damn big subsection of the playerbase that can enjoy it, I suggest you go find em. Best analogy ever ! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickybluetoffee Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 (edited) There’s a wide variety of people who play narrative, matched and open play - many play all 3. The beauty of AoS2 imo is that the difference rules-wise between them are so few that you can easily jump between them or mix them up without getting confused. While there’s been a lot of chat here about top tier competitive tournament players it’s worth considering that lots of people go to these events who don’t just always go for the top tier lists and happily enjoy seeing how far they can get with an unusual list. I always enjoy hearing their stories. On the flip side I know of lots of narrative players who aren’t into events but who love creating stories on their casual games. Whats great about the General’s Handbook is that the new content and ideas are so easily ported between all the different ways to play that it’s easy to mix and match to create truly unique games, however you want to enjoy them. (I wish GW could do that with their other game systems as well). Edited June 27, 2019 by stickybluetoffee 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agis Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 Hello Wargammers, At least one question unclarified (for me): Is it correct, if i hire for example Mazarall the Bucher or a(n) (Forgeworld) Exalted Greater Daemon of Khorne (Monstrous Arcanum units, see Pitched Battle Profile) for a Blades of Khorne army (contain other models only with mark/keyword of Khorne); - meaning the Khorne Allegiance entirely unavailable, but instead must be used the general Grand Allegiance Chaos rules in Matched Play? --- The "Monstrous Arcanum" not an ally and any unit not to be a mercenary to BOK, right? Furthermore: mercenary units don’t count to your allegiance, can’t be your general, cannot use or benefit from your allegiance abilities and can’t be a named character and in pitched battle, your allies points allocation must be shared between allies and mercenaries. (In 2018 Blades of Khorne battletome Allegiance: wrote this: "If all the starting units and warscroll battalions in your army follow KHORNE - including any units that you assign the Khorne keyword to during set-up - then your army has the KHORNE allegiance.") Its - above - relevant now, in GH2019? Thanks, Agis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retro Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 6 hours ago, Agis said: Hello Wargammers, At least one question unclarified (for me): Is it correct, if i hire for example Mazarall the Bucher or a(n) (Forgeworld) Exalted Greater Daemon of Khorne (Monstrous Arcanum units, see Pitched Battle Profile) for a Blades of Khorne army (contain other models only with mark/keyword of Khorne); - meaning the Khorne Allegiance entirely unavailable, but instead must be used the general Grand Allegiance Chaos rules in Matched Play? --- The "Monstrous Arcanum" not an ally and any unit not to be a mercenary to BOK, right? Furthermore: mercenary units don’t count to your allegiance, can’t be your general, cannot use or benefit from your allegiance abilities and can’t be a named character and in pitched battle, your allies points allocation must be shared between allies and mercenaries. (In 2018 Blades of Khorne battletome Allegiance: wrote this: "If all the starting units and warscroll battalions in your army follow KHORNE - including any units that you assign the Khorne keyword to during set-up - then your army has the KHORNE allegiance.") Its - above - relevant now, in GH2019? Thanks, Agis If the unit has the key word khorne you can use them in a blades of khorne army. They are not mercenaries, allies or whatever else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecktron Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 44 minutes ago, Retro said: If the unit has the key word khorne you can use them in a blades of khorne army. They are not mercenaries, allies or whatever else. Adding to that: Monstrum Arcanum is not an faction. It doesnt matter where the rules are coming from. All that matters are the keywords. Everything that has (or can get) the KHORNE keyword can be part of a Blades of Khorne army. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agis Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 11 hours ago, Gecktron said: Adding to that: Monstrum Arcanum is not an faction. It doesnt matter where the rules are coming from. All that matters are the keywords. Everything that has (or can get) the KHORNE keyword can be part of a Blades of Khorne army. First of all, thanks 4 the quick answers @Gecktron:And this equal to, the part of the Blades of Khorne Allegiance, right? From GH2019 (Pitched Battle Profiles): "ALLIES At the end of each Grand Alliance section you will find an Allies table that lists the eligible allies for the factions that belong to that Grand Alliance. A unit that has any of the keywords listed on the Allies table on its warscroll can be taken as an allied unit by an army from that faction. For example, a Stormcast Eternals army can take any unit with the ORDER keyword as an allied unit." The Question is: That unit/model which share with the same Keyword, for example: Mazarall the Burcher from Monstrous Arcanum is part of the Blades of Khorne Allegiance AND Army? ....Or Colossal Squig to Gloomspite Gitz OR Skaven Warlord on Brood horror to Skaventide army...and so on, remain part of the Allegiance. Not an ally or whatever else, because M.A. not a faction neither in Matched Play. Where (page) can I find this rule in up2date GH2019 or/and official Corebook? BR, Agis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelfric Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 On 6/25/2019 at 4:23 PM, Dead Scribe said: Its a difficult proposal for a lot of people to decouple from competitive mindsets in games like this. It does take a certain type of person to be able to enjoy the game in a non competitive "open" format I've found. Occasionally, a friend and I play a game where we write each other's lists going for the worst unit options based on models available. It's amazing how quickly you run out of poor units and are forced to give your opponent better and better ones. Have some parameters like, say, a minimum of 2 heroes or maximum of 2 of each warscroll for example and you're good to go. It can make for very interesting and challenging games - Ah, the Day my General was an Orruk Bully . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gecktron Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Agis said: First of all, thanks 4 the quick answers @Gecktron:And this equal to, the part of the Blades of Khorne Allegiance, right? From GH2019 (Pitched Battle Profiles): "ALLIES At the end of each Grand Alliance section you will find an Allies table that lists the eligible allies for the factions that belong to that Grand Alliance. A unit that has any of the keywords listed on the Allies table on its warscroll can be taken as an allied unit by an army from that faction. For example, a Stormcast Eternals army can take any unit with the ORDER keyword as an allied unit." The Question is: That unit/model which share with the same Keyword, for example: Mazarall the Burcher from Monstrous Arcanum is part of the Blades of Khorne Allegiance AND Army? ....Or Colossal Squig to Gloomspite Gitz OR Skaven Warlord on Brood horror to Skaventide army...and so on, remain part of the Allegiance. Not an ally or whatever else, because M.A. not a faction neither in Matched Play. Where (page) can I find this rule in up2date GH2019 or/and official Corebook? BR, Agis Forget Monstrum Arcanum completly. That doesnt matter. The book where something is published in doesnt matter AT ALL. Only keywords matter. Everything with keyword KHORNE can be part of a Khorne army/allegiance. A Chaos Warrior with the Mark of Khorne, Skarbrand and the FW Blood Thirster are all equaly part of a Khorne force. Same goes for every other Keyword like SKAVENTIDE or GLOOMSPITE GITS. You can find that in every Battletome at the start of the allegiance part where they define what keywords determine your allegiance. Edited June 29, 2019 by Gecktron 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agis Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 9 hours ago, Gecktron said: Forget Monstrum Arcanum completly. That doesnt matter. The book where something is published in doesnt matter AT ALL. Only keywords matter. Everything with keyword KHORNE can be part of a Khorne army/allegiance. A Chaos Warrior with the Mark of Khorne, Skarbrand and the FW Blood Thirster are all equaly part of a Khorne force. Same goes for every other Keyword like SKAVENTIDE or GLOOMSPITE GITS. You can find that in every Battletome at the start of the allegiance part where they define what keywords determine your allegiance. Ok. I'm found it in Corebook-> Allegiance Abilites p242: "An army can have allegiance to a faction instead of a Grand Alliance if all the units in the army have the keyword for that faction, including any units that you assign a keyword to during set-up. For example, if all of the units in an army have the STORMCAST ETERNAL keyword, then the army can have allegiance to the Stormcast Eternals faction, and would be referred to as a Stormcast Eternal army." ...and thanks for your help Gecktron. BR, Agis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skumbaagh Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Is it me missing something or did the khorne dragon (vorgaroth) loose its matched play points? Can't find it in the profiles.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tohshi Ydithe Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 Okay didn't see this mentioned but they changed the rules on battalions. Now if you can have the models you can have the battalion. Thoughts? This makes the 'meta' factions way better. (Those factions made up of multiple different armies, such as lethisian defender or Legion of Grief from forbidden power) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ppetford Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 How do you mean @Tohshi Ydithe? You could always take any battalion that's available to your army's allegiance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qrow Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 52 minutes ago, Tohshi Ydithe said: Okay didn't see this mentioned but they changed the rules on battalions. Now if you can have the models you can have the battalion. Thoughts? This makes the 'meta' factions way better. (Those factions made up of multiple different armies, such as lethisian defender or Legion of Grief from forbidden power) Where is this said? As a LoG player, I would love to be able to quote this and take battalions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMMachine Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 2 hours ago, Tohshi Ydithe said: Okay didn't see this mentioned but they changed the rules on battalions. Now if you can have the models you can have the battalion. Thoughts? This makes the 'meta' factions way better. (Those factions made up of multiple different armies, such as lethisian defender or Legion of Grief from forbidden power) Do you have a reference for this. The wording for Warscroll Battalions in Pitched Battle hasn't changed in years and we still have the Following FAQ points: Corerules FAQ page 8 Quote Q: The rules say that a warscroll battalion can include allies and that they don’t count against the number of allies in the army. Does this rule only apply to battalions that share the same allegiance as the army, but that have units from two different factions (a battalion in a Daughters of Khaine army that has Daughters of Khaine and Stormcast Eternals units, for example)? A: Yes. The faction a warscroll battalion belongs to is shown on its warscroll, above the title of the battalion. In addition, the battalion is assumed to belong to the Grand Alliance that its faction is a part of. Warscroll battalions that share the same allegiance as an army can always be taken as part of the army, and if they include any allied units, these units do not count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (or against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). An army can include a warscroll battalion of a different allegiance to the rest of the army, but if it does so the units in it do count against the limits on the number of allies the army can have (and the points for the battalion and the units in it count against the points limit that can be spent on allies in a Pitched Battle). And this one. Quote Q: Some warscroll battalions included in battletomes do not have a faction listed above their title. How do I determine which faction they belong to for the purposes of allegiance abilities? A: The battalion belongs to the battletome’s faction. For example, the warscroll battalions in Battletome: Stormcast Eternals are part of the Stormcast Eternals faction. Both FAQ points basicly say that Battalions would be Allies in case of Lethisian Defender or Legion of Grief because there are no rules that say that the Battalion will be part of those Allegiances, like in the case of Legions of Nagash or the Errata of Beasts of Chaos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qrow Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 16 minutes ago, EMMachine said: Do you have a reference for this. The wording for Warscroll Battalions in Pitched Battle hasn't changed in years and we still have the Following FAQ points: Corerules FAQ page 8 And this one. Both FAQ points basicly say that Battalions would be Allies in case of Lethisian Defender or Legion of Grief because there are no rules that say that the Battalion will be part of those Allegiances, like in the case of Legions of Nagash or the Errata of Beasts of Chaos. Page 54 of the 2019 GHB under the battalions section. The GHB, being the latest publication, takes precedence over previous FAQs as far as I am aware; so until they reiterate those points in a new errata, Tohshi is correct. Correction: it is worded exactly the same as the 2018 GHB, and will probably see the same errata as the previous one. Kinda dumb for GW to not actually fix the wording in the 2019 version. Edited June 30, 2019 by Qrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMMachine Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Qrow said: Page 54 of the 2019 GHB under the battalions section. The GHB, being the latest publication, takes precedence over previous FAQs as far as I am aware; so until they reiterate those points in a new errata, Tohshi is correct. The problem here is those rules basicly have the same wording since the first Generals Handbook (2016). There is no mentioning in those rules how they work with Allegiance only how they worked with the pitched Battle Point system. Edited June 30, 2019 by EMMachine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qrow Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, EMMachine said: The problem here is those rules basicly have the same wording since the first Generals Handbook (2016). There is no mentioning in those rules how they work with Allegiance only how they wórked with the pitched Battle Point system. Yeah, I was writing a correction in my previous post when your reply came through. It's really disappointing that GW doesn't incorperate their FAQs into the newer versions of the rules. I mean, that is a very basic expectation when releasing an updated set of rules; any changes or clarifications made to older versions should be present natively in the newer version. Small gripe, but still frustrating. Edited June 30, 2019 by Qrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EMMachine Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Qrow said: Yeah, I was writing a correction in my previous post when your reply came through. It's really disappointing that GW doesn't incorperate their FAQs into the newer versions of the rules. The mainproblem is those FAQ points doesn't have to do anything with Pitched Battle. They are basicly answers for Page 17 of the Corerules (Allegiance Abilities, subpoint battalions). I really hate it either when they basicly change rules with an FAQ instead of using the Errata for this, changing the wording of the rule when they certainly have missed something. Edited June 30, 2019 by EMMachine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qrow Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 1 minute ago, EMMachine said: The mainproblem is those FAQ points doesn't have to do anything with Pitched Battle. They are basicly answers for Page 17 of the Corerules (Allegiance Abilities, subpoint battalions). I really hate it either when they basicly change rules with an FAQ instead of using the Errata for this, changing the wording of the rule. My god, that is terrible. I just really want the forbidden power FAQ to come out, there are so many questions about the legion of grief that dramatically impact on the way it is played and we have no answers to any of them yet. At this rate I'm not honestly sure if we will see the FP errata before the july errata for the newer battletomes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kramer Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 Just a quick question with the three new command abilities it doesn’t specify the old are still in place. They are still available through the core rules right? The new abilities are just matched play ‘ on top of the normal’ abilities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mogwai Man Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 8 hours ago, Kramer said: Just a quick question with the three new command abilities it doesn’t specify the old are still in place. They are still available through the core rules right? The new abilities are just matched play ‘ on top of the normal’ abilities Yes they are still available for use via the core rules of the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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