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4 hours ago, EddieWouldGo said:

So much for the "year for destruction" i guess.

It's only March. There's more time for the year to happen.

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well beside Looncurse they did went on record to say that Battletomes are coming for each GA which would implied that Destruction is getting one soon.

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6 hours ago, Mutton said:

I think it was silly for people to expect whole new units for the Fyreslayers update.
 

Nobody wants new Stormcasts yet they get new chamber opened every year! 

To be honest I didn't expect FEC to be updated at all and GW kinda impressed me with hero, spells and terrain. It was my fault to consider them pre-AoS temporary faction soon to be forgotten. Wonder if they will update Bonesplitterz as well. 

With BoC and now Fyreslayers GW messed it up. It would have taken them really little effort to bring some new life into those lines just by introducing 1-2 new non-hero units.

Is there a single person that was on the fence with Fyreslayers and after latest announcements wants to start a 2k points army with them? I was and spells, book, scenery don't change a thing for me. I still don't want to glue and paint 90 naked clones to be competetive. It sounds like a torture and I'm mostly a painter rather than gamer with AoS. 

Edited by Aryann

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5 hours ago, EddieWouldGo said:

So much for the "year for destruction" i guess.

When did they call it ‘year of destruction’?

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19 minutes ago, Still-young said:

When did they call it ‘year of destruction’?

They never did. In a seminar last year they said we would see cool new stuff for destruction in 2019. Presumably they meant the gloomspite. 

If we assume the lvo info about new battletomes for each grand alliance meant in 2019, then that promise is already fulfilled with the fyreslayers announcement.  If we assume it means post Lvo, then we have another destruction battletome and interestingly another death battletome this year.

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22 minutes ago, Chikout said:

They never did. In a seminar last year they said we would see cool new stuff for destruction in 2019. Presumably they meant the gloomspite. 

If we assume the lvo info about new battletomes for each grand alliance meant in 2019, then that promise is already fulfilled with the fyreslayers announcement.  If we assume it means post Lvo, then we have another destruction battletome and interestingly another death battletome this year.

Yeah, that’s what I suspected. It’s like when the community a year or so ago decided it was ‘year of the xenos’ and then got annoyed at GW who had never made such a claim. 

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4 minutes ago, Still-young said:

Yeah, that’s what I suspected. It’s like when the community a year or so ago decided it was ‘year of the xenos’ and then got annoyed at GW who had never made such a claim. 

still going to be angry about it! The nerd rage is high on the hype train here ;) 

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2 hours ago, Mutton said:

It's only March. There's more time for the year to happen.

So much this!!!  We're only just a quarter of the way through the year and the amount of AoS releases we've had is already huge - let's not write this year off as being rubbish folks 😄

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I mean the REAL big issue with Fyreslayers is their horrible IRL pricing. The book can maybe alleviate it by changing them to a mid-elite army ala Ironjawz instead of a semi horde army that they are atm but aside from that you can't sell me them.

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I'm pretty sure there are still  some battletomes planned for this year. Ironjawz from Destruction is a sure thing as they are as old as Fyreslayers. Sylvaneth due to vs Gloomspite box. Seraphon probably and maybe Kharadron Overlords with Tzeentch. And also it's high time for Darkoath to emerge. 

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I have said this in other threads, I believe we will see book releases on a par with last year's 40k codex schedule....... fast and furious

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3 hours ago, Aryann said:

Nobody wants new Stormcasts yet they get new chamber opened every year! 

To be honest I didn't expect FEC to be updated at all and GW kinda impressed me with hero, spells and terrain. It was my fault to consider them pre-AoS temporary faction soon to be forgotten. Wonder if they will update Bonesplitterz as well. 

With BoC and now Fyreslayers GW messed it up. It would have taken them really little effort to bring some new life into those lines just by introducing 1-2 new non-hero units.

Is there a single person that was on the fence with Fyreslayers and after latest announcements wants to start a 2k points army with them? I was and spells, book, scenery don't change a thing for me. I still don't want to glue and paint 90 naked clones to be competetive. It sounds like a torture and I'm mostly a painter rather than gamer with AoS. 

Plenty people want new Stormcast. They wouldn’t sell and GW wouldn’t make them otherwise.

That doesn’t mean from your wider point re Fyreslayers is wrong but you weaken your argument by referencing an erroneous point.

The real issue with Fyreslayers is the price point I think. Just don’t get enough bang for your buck. There’s already plenty arguments against collecting them but the fact they’re so expensive hardly helps.

Edited by Nos
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6 hours ago, Kyriakin said:

The Fyreslayer, FEC and Skaven situations are all slightly different, though.

(a) FEC are a fringe faction, which is even on the periphery of their own Grand Alliance and is formed from a small part of a single WHFB army. While the continued lack of specific courtier models and not replacing the crappy Vargulf sculpt is a shame, FEC players are probably happy to just get a book. See also: Beasts of Chaos.

(b) Skaven represent the entirety of a complete WHFB army, and are an iconic GW concept. However, their range is an absolute mess, and needs revolution rather than evolution. Clearly, GW didn't feel now was the right time for such a huge undertaking, and released a book to keep players with existing Skaven collections happy until GW can pump huge resources into turning the Skaven model range around (Year of the Rat?). I don't think the book is aimed at encouraging people to start new Skaven armies from scratch. Seraphon will likely follow the same path for the time being.

(c) Fyreslayers are a wholly new range, but one that, by most available evidence, was not a good seller. I think they have gas in the engine if they expanded the range to lean more into the "Fyre" gimmick (e.g. plastic Kdaai Fireborn), but maybe GW feel this is Throwing Good Money After Bad.

The good money after bad thing is exactly my point.  GW creates that situation.  If the army isn't selling, it is either rules or models.  In the case of Fyreslayers its possible I suppose it was both, but don't you think that a horde army with only two/three variations that you need 90 of and costs a ton might have selling problems?

I guess the overall point I am making about old bad GW is that they are clearly still terrified about the Chapterhouse court case and refuse to create new units in battletomes without models.  This is really the problem especially when they (allegedly) have production issues, so they are likely trying to do fans a favor with these interim battletomes (and make money).  What GW is missing though is that not creating new units isn't stopping third parties from doing resculpts or from creating their own units.

If GW said, hey- in four/five/seven months we are releasing a Seraphon battletome and along with that there will be X models.  Ok awesome.  Guess what I won't be doing, buying the not Seraphon alternatives because I know GW will make amazing models.  The people who do buy those alts early, would have done it anyway.  But because  some part of GW is still so secretive about releases, they are totally missing the opportunity to allow customers to show loyalty to the brand (and most of us are rather loyal/devoted/obsessed).

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5 hours ago, Sleboda said:

TK had fantastic model support. A great range of new kits, and even a piece of FW scenery.

They were done by one of the worst rules sets ever written by GW. Yes, people love the models. It's why they bought many initially. Then word got out that the rules were utter trash, and new players opted to start with better armies despite the models - thus a quick death.

Sometimes, rules can kill. That's why I think GW appears to be in a rush to update older AoS books even without much in terms of models. It keeps their rules interesting until they can get a proper redo.

Rules definitely kill. Not necessarily the strength, but the feel (although both certainly help). Having a distinct rules identity that actively manifests in the gameplay makes the game and the army better. Skaven play EXACTLY as they are described in the lore. Daughters too. Problems arise with one-dimensional army lists that force you to play in an odd way. Stormcast in AOS1 are a great example of this - Vanguard Wing was the only way to play competitively but was a dumb exploit.

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7 minutes ago, Nos said:

Plenty people want new Stormcast. They wouldn’t sell and GW wouldn’t make them otherwise.

I am just referring to community feedback and exaggerate intentionally.

It's a viciouc circle with Stormcasts. They sel well because they have great, constant support with models and books and they receive new models because they sell well. I am absolutely sure that the same case would be with pretty any other army if it received same support, name it Ironajwz or Idoneth. If they got original and cool new minis every year they would have been as popular as Stormcasts.

When they leave Fyreslayers unsopported with minis they will be unsupported by clients' purchases.  The message I received from GW about Fyreslayers from Adepticon: No new minis until maybe AoS v.3.0. Maybe never if they remain unpopular.

13 minutes ago, Nos said:

The real issue with Fyreslayers is the price point I think. Just don’t get enough bang for your buck. There’s already plenty arguments against collecting them but the fact they’re so expensive hardly helps.

I'm not really convinced with the price argument. We all know how costly this hobby is. Whenever I start a new army I am aware it will take 1100-1300 PLN for me to gather 2k army. It makes really no difference for me to spend additional 200-300 PLN for a more expensive Fyreslayer models to reach 2k points. I spend like 2500-3000 PLN a year on AoS so 5-15% more spendings is not the case. As for me it's the monotony of Fyreslayers and the neccesity to paint multiple multiple *same* models. It's just boring.

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21 minutes ago, Aryann said:

The message I received from GW about Fyreslayers from Adepticon: No new minis until maybe AoS v.3.0

I would always take anything like this with a large pinch of salt, I've lost count of the number of times I've heard or been told "no idea" for it to appear within the next year.  GW staff are super careful about admitting anything coming out before it's been released.

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16 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

I would always take anything like this with a large pinch of salt, I've lost count of the number of times I've heard or been told "no idea" for it to appear within the next year.  GW staff are super careful about admitting anything coming out before it's been released.

It's highly unlikely GW will release new units *just* after bringing new battletome and even more unlikely Fyreslayers will receive next battletome in a year or two. Not popular enough. 

I would love GW to seperate model releases from battletomes but so far there are no signs of that.

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48 minutes ago, Austin said:

I guess the overall point I am making about old bad GW is that they are clearly still terrified about the Chapterhouse court case and refuse to create new units in battletomes without models

I'd like to see however more of an approach like they did with the Grey Knights Grandmaster Dreadknight, where they took one model, bashed it with another and hey presto - new rules but with existing models.

For instance, a slaughterpriest of khorne on  warshrine, replacing the shrine master, or darkoath warqueen or chaos lord on mammoth for instance.

or a character on a dragon / chimera / mammoth / beachball.  Its no real cost for the mothership with new investment but would add a different lease of life or angle on some models, and just keeps things simple as well.

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1 minute ago, Kaleb Daark said:

I'd like to see however more of an approach like they did with the Grey Knights Grandmaster Dreadknight, where they took one model, bashed it with another and hey presto - new rules but with existing models.

They did that excessively around the time the first Generals Handbook dropped. The Flesh-Eater courts got the Ghoul King on Zombie Dragon, Crypt Flayers and all the different Courtiers besides the Varghulf. Same goes for the mounted BCR Ogors and a few units for the Bonesplitter Orruks. 

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37 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

I would always take anything like this with a large pinch of salt, I've lost count of the number of times I've heard or been told "no idea" for it to appear within the next year.  GW staff are super careful about admitting anything coming out before it's been released.

Aye if its not in a formal press release they basically can't and won't say anything. Furthermore don't forget that GW is heavily internally compartmentalized to further cut down on possible leaks. So if the staff member you ask isn't directly involved in the early stages then they might not even have a clue and are only able to surmise based upon what they've heard around the office. The new models could be around the next corner, but if that staffer is in the wrong department they just won't be aware of it till later. 

I do sometimes wonder if letting their design studio lead on many things does result in gaps that management might prefer filled - ergo no one on the team wants to make a Fyreslayer so we get an unnaturally long gap - but we've only ever had rough ideas how this area of GW really works (we've net to snare one of the design team online in the forums ;))

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1 hour ago, Aryann said:

I am just referring to community feedback and exaggerate intentionally.

It's a viciouc circle with Stormcasts. They sel well because they have great, constant support with models and books and they receive new models because they sell well. I am absolutely sure that the same case would be with pretty any other army if it received same support, name it Ironajwz or Idoneth. If they got original and cool new minis every year they would have been as popular as Stormcasts.

When they leave Fyreslayers unsopported with minis they will be unsupported by clients' purchases.  The message I received from GW about Fyreslayers from Adepticon: No new minis until maybe AoS v.3.0. Maybe never if they remain unpopular.

I'm not really convinced with the price argument. We all know how costly this hobby is. Whenever I start a new army I am aware it will take 1100-1300 PLN for me to gather 2k army. It makes really no difference for me to spend additional 200-300 PLN for a more expensive Fyreslayer models to reach 2k points. I spend like 2500-3000 PLN a year on AoS so 5-15% more spendings is not the case. As for me it's the monotony of Fyreslayers and the neccesity to paint multiple multiple *same* models. It's just boring.

People often refer to the Stormcast as the AOS posterboys, and they are, but this serves a purpose.

Every story needs a protagonist, every product needs a visual aid. Stormcast serve as both.
 
Sigmar and his Stormcast are the principle anchor that keeps all of the rest of the Mortal Realms together, just as the Empire was in Warhammer. It provides a centre from which to understand everything and holds everything together. The story of Sigmar is very relatable Western pagan myth; Zeus/Odin, chief of the Gods try to keep disparate personalities together and survive their scheming while watching over/judging free people. Most epics also have a human protagonist doing the same; Ned Stark in GOT, Gandalf in LOTR etc.
 
If the centre of AOS was Teclis or Gorkamorka or any other deity other than Sigmar, it wouldn't work, because it would be too much work to make those non-human characters relatable. Teclis or Morathi wouldn't be able to be themselves if they were the focus of most of the fiction because they would either have to becone more human and sympathetic and thus lose their personality, or their alien nature would be too off-putting and complicated for the majority of the audience to go along with them as the centre of anything. 
 
The Stormcast are Sigmar's manifestation, so in a game where he is the lead they're going to crop up very frequently. The Stormcast themselves are designed to be an easy archetype to elaborate on because they're principally a means to tell the story while being relatable. You have Stormcast roman legions, Stormcast riding dragons, Stormcast wizards, Stormcast with dog birds, Stormcast medieval warrior monks, Stormcast scouts, all in the same army, all recognisably different while being the same. They reflect the diversity and fantasy of the Mortal Realms in a way you couldn't communicate with any other faction while still being recognisably what they are. Basically because they're Human and we understand how Human cultures work. 
 
As the Mortal Realms are fleshed out the SC will always be there to help illustrate its character. It's easy to imagine an aesthetic for pretty much any environment or context for the Stormcast to fit in, because they can borrow from pretty much any human civilization in history or in fiction and people will read the shorthand. 
 
Much harder to do that with fantasy races, because the second they depart from their fantasy context people get thrown. Most peoplec want orcs to be orcy, elves to be aloof and secluded , dwarves to live in mountains or be obsessed with gold and craftmanship etc. Not everyone of course, myself included. But if you're building a fantasy IP ignoring the expectations of the overwhelming majority of your audience is folly. There are multiple fantasy liscenses, books, games etc that have tried to focus on a non-human protagonist. By Games Workshop’s standards all of them would have been a crushing failure.
 
On top of all that, SC hit the hobby sweet spot of being easy to paint to a basic degree for beginners while still providing a canvas for expert painters, being easy to learn but difficult to master on the tabletop, of looking great in a unit of 5 or a unit if 20 meaning you don't need millions of them etc.
 
Theres a lot more to it than "They just sell because they're supported better". GW didn’t just pick a random number out of a hat and go “yeah those will be our guys”. They designed a faction specifically to communicate what AOS is as a product and as a fiction. AOS success is in a large part due to how well the Stormcast communicate this. 
 
You can always make the argument that whoever the posterboys are will sell best, but it would take far more work to make that Idoneth or Undead or anyone else who isn't essentially human. And now that Stormcast have so effectively established themselves as a successful ambassador for AOS as a product and a fiction, that's not going to change. 
Edited by Nos
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Just came in and am really wondering if I’ve mistaken this forum for the Stormcast one.

Ah so were talking about the protagonist of the aos range.

well I’m with @Nos on this one although I got the feeling that the focus on the Stormcast factions has been loosened a bit and seems to go more into all of the factions rather then focusing on almost only Stormcast and blades of khorne.

Having some kind of a central point is just sometimes needed, in this case we have the poster-things.

Just sometimes we also have to remeber that a story can get a bit sout if you only focus on that one point and just forget the rest, which more or less happened at the beginning.

I mean nobody really likes the idea of somebody or in this case a specific faction to get everything and beeing updated every year, when another armie still sticks in the age of having been forgotten.

Anyways back to the rumors and other kind of sweet nonsense kind of talk.

5 minutes ago, xking said:

Does anyone know what this is? 

 

AdepticonReveals-Mar27-Spells12yhveg.jpg

Endless spell Maybe???

Terrain Feature for armies who still don’t have one??😅🥶

Or just terrain which looks cool on the table?

or maybe a trap for poster-things, made by the Skavenrace to kill-slay this guys😀.

(I have basically no glue)

 

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16 hours ago, Austin said:

... they are clearly still terrified about the Chapterhouse court case (1) and refuse to create new units in battletomes without models.  This is really the problem especially when they (allegedly) have production issues (2) ...

If GW said, hey- in four/five/seven months we are releasing a Seraphon battletome and along with that there will be X models.  Ok awesome.  Guess what I won't be doing, buying the not Seraphon alternatives (3)

It's interesting that you take one thing that is not a fact at all and frame it as such (1) while a thing they themselves said it's indeed a problem being addressed (2) and framed it was only a possibility.

I don't blame GW for any exasperation they may feel.

(3) You know what else would not get bought in that scenario? Anything. If a player knew that in 4 months a new range of their favorite army was hitting, they very well might skip any other new stuff. Without that knowledge, they might spend on other cool new stuff.

 

We would all love to know, as fans, what is getting released when, but from a business perspective, it's a bad idea. 

Edited by Sleboda

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