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I think we should keep in mind though that the 40k codex that where rapid release last year where just rule with a lot of reused assets ( like the cover art was basically the cover from last edition) and not much of other stuff, AoS battletome are more extensive require a lot more work to be put in ranging from Background lore writing, rule writing, new artwork, and that not considering think like Playtesting. I don't expect AoS to get the same exact treatment as 40k did last year.

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34 minutes ago, novakai said:

I think we should keep in mind though that the 40k codex that where rapid release last year where just rule with a lot of reused assets ( like the cover art was basically the cover from last edition) and not much of other stuff, AoS battletome are more extensive require a lot more work to be put in ranging from Background lore writing, rule writing, new artwork, and that not considering think like Playtesting. I don't expect AoS to get the same exact treatment as 40k did last year.

And that treatment was what exactly?

codex for each Chapter?

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5 hours ago, Laststand said:

I think its likely that many of the older factions without a battletome will stay that way for a number of reasons. 1. Tightening up intellectual property (anyone can sell knights, only GW can sell stormcast, orks and elves changed to Orruks and aelves). 2. It makes no business sense to put huge amounts of work into a battletome and maybe 1 or 2 new models so that guy with 3,500pts of brettonians can play them again when you are in the business of selling models. Far better to launch a new faction or update something already supported (i.e. dark elves must largely disappear when malerion's shadow aelves arrive. Ironjawz and KO who need life support)

What I can see happening is certain key factions like skaven, making a big comeback as they have wide appeal, great lore, a presence in the story thread of AOS and a ton of models that are either hard to collect or resin/metal. They, like grots have the potential to sell huge amounts of new and updated models.  

At some point there is also prob going to be an anti nagash death faction and that could mark tomb kings return, perhaps half flesh, half bones.

 

 We also have to remember that 2018 was battletome rapid fire for 40k and they could easily be planning the same for supported AOS factions this year. 

Up to a month ago I would have agreed that anything with a huge amount of old models and no battletome will stay that way, as they don't want to do all the work revitalising a range only for people to just use old collections. How ever Gloomspite has dispelled that. Night goblins are one of those factions that a very high number of players have a lot, even if tucked away at the back of the closet. They have been the main army for at least two editions of fantasy, they were crazy popular in the late 90s due to being one of the first multi part kits made, not to mention the crazy range of models that were brought up for 40k and gorkamorka during the same period.

Gloomspite have shown that GW can put out a new range of models, models which people own loads off and still sell out of them (troggs were OOS this morning online, as were several other bits)

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1 hour ago, JackStreicher said:

And that treatment was what exactly?

codex for each Chapter?

Releasing a lot of codi without new models. 40K could get away with this because it has a huge amount of useable models and a established background.

AoS cant do that. They have to redesign old models, update current ones (bigger box sizes, new bases), explain the factions place in the mortal realms and commission new artwork. 

The 40K treatment would also mean that people would have to buy a new battletome for their army in a year or so as GW wont release a new range of models without a new Battletome. 

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1 minute ago, Gecktron said:

Releasing a lot of codi without new models. 40K could get away with this because it has a huge amount of useable models and a established background.

AoS cant do that. They have to redesign old models, update current ones (bigger box sizes, new bases), explain the factions place in the mortal realms and commission new artwork. 

The 40K treatment would also mean that people would have to buy a new battletome for their army in a year or so as GW wont release a new range of models without a new Battletome. 

Thx!

 

well they could do it with the SCE =}

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I think that the Squatting was made at the begining of AoS (Tomb Kings and Brettonia).

All other armies will have an update (sooner or later), but some units will be lost in the process. They can still make "legends" warscroll's for them, and even make some white dwarf rules to create exclusive armies from <random zone/city/whatever> that doesn't work like other armies (something like freecites, End Times armies, or even old campaigns and supplements).

One of the hardest things is try to maintain all armies relevant but we saw with legions of Nagash, Beasts of Chaos, etc... that they can just group some factions under one banner so that's not a problem anymore.

If they want, they can even create a new "Ravening Hordes" supplement for old kits.

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32 minutes ago, Beliman said:

I think that the Squatting was made at the begining of AoS (Tomb Kings and Brettonia).

All other armies will have an update (sooner or later), but some units will be lost in the process. They can still make "legends" warscroll's for them, and even make some white dwarf rules to create exclusive armies from <random zone/city/whatever> that doesn't work like other armies (something like freecites, End Times armies, or even old campaigns and supplements).

One of the hardest things is try to maintain all armies relevant but we saw with legions of Nagash, Beasts of Chaos, etc... that they can just group some factions under one banner so that's not a problem anymore.

If they want, they can even create a new "Ravening Hordes" supplement for old kits.

I am pretty sure they‘ll tackle it with city Allegiances. Personally I would like and dislike this because it would grant each city flavor while robbing each Faction of it‘s flavor.

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19 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

I would like that release, but how is that a "fact" at all?

The “human element” or having/ showing the side of humanity in any setting is something we’re all grounded by, because we’re humans. It gives a better perspective of struggle in a world(s) full of things that are better than them.

while not “under dogs” the human feel is a key role and attractive to many for this reason. Monsters, mutants and beasts are nice, but we need some humanity mixed in 

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34 minutes ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

The “human element” or having/ showing the side of humanity in any setting is something we’re all grounded by, because we’re humans. It gives a better perspective of struggle in a world(s) full of things that are better than them.

while not “under dogs” the human feel is a key role and attractive to many for this reason. Monsters, mutants and beasts are nice, but we need some humanity mixed in 

I get that, I meant the "fact" that this army would be the biggest seller.

It might be, but it's hardly a fact.  If it were, it would be the next army GW put out, don't you think?

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2 hours ago, Sleboda said:

I get that, I meant the "fact" that this army would be the biggest seller.

It might be, but it's hardly a fact.  If it were, it would be the next army GW put out, don't you think?

I think GW has a long term release plan and It seems a bit like they are using the fluff to slot in the releases.  I expect that they are not likely to change things other than slide a book up or down by one slot.

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1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:

I think GW has a long term release plan and It seems a bit like they are using the fluff to slot in the releases.  I expect that they are not likely to change things other than slide a book up or down by one slot.

I completely agree. That said, if it were an actual fact that any particular army would be the best selling one, you can bet they would put that one out ASAP (or at least just prior to an earnings statement 😉).

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21 hours ago, Enoby said:

I doubt anyone will ever know, but I wonder how many people have gone off the idea of starting AoS because they don't know if the army they like will be forgotten about. I know I would be more hesitant to buy models if I thought my army would never be blessed with a battletome. 

Ha, this is 100% me. I detest the new factions and lore but quite like the system. I’ve started collecting high elves, dispossessed, greenskins/gitmob and wanderers only to sell them all off and abandon them because I don’t know how many years I’ll need to wait for decent rules and model range and merging back these ridiculous mini factions. 

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7 hours ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

The “human element” or having/ showing the side of humanity in any setting is something we’re all grounded by, because we’re humans. It gives a better perspective of struggle in a world(s) full of things that are better than them.

while not “under dogs” the human feel is a key role and attractive to many for this reason. Monsters, mutants and beasts are nice, but we need some humanity mixed in 

I agree that I'd like to see a 'default human' faction, but I don't think the idea that they'd be super popular holds much water. The Empire were never WHFB's most popular faction, and the Imperial Guard are nowhere near 40k's. 

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The only "most popular" faction for 40K is Space Marines - everything else pales in comparison. However Imperials sell very strongly in general - heck look at FW they mostly produce Space Marine and Imperial content in buckets - they wouldn't do that if there wasn't a market for it to feed.

Fantasy, esp in its latter years, just didn't get the marketing to really push it forward. I think that armies like Bretonians and Empire also started to feel a touch more retro in a market that was steadily advancing away from more historical and toward more epic fantasy (you can blame computergames for that probably). 

I think the idea that a human faction would be unpopular is not really holding water - Stormcast are basically just humans in big armour and they sell well. It's often more about marketing; model design; communication of themes; updated sculpts etc... Heck lets be honest the only real difference between your average Aelf and human is pointy ears and a slightly thinner body build overall (and I mean slight). 

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Even if they didn’t make a huge free people’s release I think the setting would massively improve if more focus was given to a normal human faction. It grounds the whole setting. I’ve never owned a human army but it’s still my point of comparison to the ones I do own; my skeletons feel terrifying cause I know if I had to fight them it would be terrifying, my nurgle are disgusting as they would disgust any sane person, my Orcs seem savage and cruel compared to human soldiers fighting to protect their civilised homes. Giant immortal thunder warriors just can not provide this anchor (in my opinion, obviously!)

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Humans also forces GW to write stories within a sane timeframe. At present you've got Aelves and Dwarves and Stormcast and Demons - all of which can live for hundreds of years. Humans get a tiny slot and that forces the stories to focus down far more so on a niche in time so that you can have heroes arise and such. It also fits ithings into a timescale that most people can more readily identify with. 

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On 1/18/2019 at 10:01 AM, Yoshiya said:

Whilst I don't think they are a priority, I think if the current trends continue then Slyvaneth may be due for a minor update to their allegiance ability. The core of their identity is that they had a unique terrain piece they interacted with but so far every release looks to be included a major terrain piece (for a grot focused armies and beast of chaos I'd say the terrain pieces are almost as core to their design as well) that gives considerable buffs. At this rate the only unique things about the ability with be the teleport and the ability to make more than one (though with multiple boats or loonshrine sized pieces it becomes harder to place them).

I'm not saying they need a buff, just something to keep their identity intact and as such something like a very minor extra to their allegiance would be good (not really sure what but personally I see their core themes as trees, healing and magic so something that interacts with one of them).

Wyldwoods are crazy good, they don’t need anything. I do tvthink the terrain piece was meant to be their “thing” so much as it was the test case for armies having a terrain piece as part of their faction design.  Sylvaneth remain a strong faction since their inception. You never know with GW of course but from a pure logic perspective they’re probably the least faction in need of anything along with Stormcast I would say. They play well, great models, they have a real character, their place in the Lore is well established etc. 

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On 1/19/2019 at 10:42 AM, ageofpaddsmar said:

They are falling into one of the things that killed fantasy. There are still armies with no books and books that need an update. 

If theres a another rule change so soon it may make newer books obsolete then there will be more books that need doing. 

When aos 2.0 came out they should have done what 40k did and release aload of temporary updated books for most of the armies

AOS is releasing both books and factions  at a rate Warhammer never came close to. There’s Warscrolls for pretty much everything from Warhammer still.

But it should be pretty clear now that AOS and Warhammer are different things and in the future all factions will be unique and fresh, that’s what it’s building towards. 

But as I say-you still can play with pretty much any models you have in the meantime. The expectation that all armies should be as viable on the tabletop as each other is entirely unrealistic though, nor is it a precedent that is being ignored. Warhammer never had that over its last 4 iterations at least. 

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22 minutes ago, Nos said:

AOS is releasing both books and factions  at a rate Warhammer never came close to. There’s Warscrolls for pretty much everything from Warhammer still.

But it should be pretty clear now that AOS and Warhammer are different things and in the future all factions will be unique and fresh, that’s what it’s building towards. . 

Well it definitely sounds interesting but, weren’t the faction in the old world, also very unic in their own way.

sure some factions still had a similar concept (like knights) but still they were different.

dwarfs where known to be very sturdy slow and good fighters with a high strength.

the empire was a armie that combined everything together, but lacked the skill and strength the dwarf and Elves  had.

Bretonnians, which where a highly elite cavalry armie, combining brute strength, and nobility, which not many factions could.

etc.

 

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52 minutes ago, Nos said:

AOS is releasing both books and factions  at a rate Warhammer never came close to. There’s Warscrolls for pretty much everything from Warhammer still.

But it should be pretty clear now that AOS and Warhammer are different things and in the future all factions will be unique and fresh, that’s what it’s building towards. . 

Well it definitely sounds interesting but, weren’t the faction in the old world, also very unic in their own way.

sure some factions still had a similar concept (like knights) but still they were different.

dwarfs where known to be very sturdy slow and good fighters with a high strength.

the empire was a armie that combined everything together, but lacked the skill and strength the dwarf and Elves  had.

Bretonnians, where a highly elite cavalry armie, combining brute strength, and nobility, which not many factions could.

etc.

 

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3 hours ago, Overread said:

The only "most popular" faction for 40K is Space Marines - everything else pales in comparison. However Imperials sell very strongly in general - heck look at FW they mostly produce Space Marine and Imperial content in buckets - they wouldn't do that if there wasn't a market for it to feed.

Fantasy, esp in its latter years, just didn't get the marketing to really push it forward. I think that armies like Bretonians and Empire also started to feel a touch more retro in a market that was steadily advancing away from more historical and toward more epic fantasy (you can blame computergames for that probably). 

I think the idea that a human faction would be unpopular is not really holding water - Stormcast are basically just humans in big armour and they sell well. It's often more about marketing; model design; communication of themes; updated sculpts etc... Heck lets be honest the only real difference between your average Aelf and human is pointy ears and a slightly thinner body build overall (and I mean slight). 

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not necessarily saying they'd be unpopular, I was just responding to the original idea, stated as 'fact' upthread, that they'd be AOS's most popular faction - IMO they'd be mid-level popular at best, and GW, who has far better data than any of us, probably has good reasons for not having rebooted Freeguild yet 

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GW definitely has a release plan for the next several years. They also want to have major tentpole releases for spring summer and autumn/winter each year. 

A big release of a new mortal human faction could well be one of those tentpoles.  I think GW are doing a decent job of eventually getting to what people want to see in AoS.

There was a big clamour for more death releases,  and now we have two death battletomes and another probably on the way. Death has a major place in the setting and in the tournament scene. It doesn't feel like the fourth grand alliance. 

There was a big clamour for more Aelves. In 2018 we got two great new factions and a bunch of awesome minis. 

More recently there was a big clamouring for something new for destruction and now we have an awesome gloomspite battletome with a fantastic range of minis.

If we look at what is left we have Slaanesh which is coming this year,  Skaven which is coming this year, Light and shadow Aelves and regular humans. 

The fact that it feels that GW is working through a checklist if the most requested factions, makes me think we will see a new human battletome this year or next (probably next year)

The other side of the release schedule is the revamping of existing battletomes. For me Ironjawz are the poster child for this. They are supposed to be the leading faction for destruction but they have under developed fluff, average rules and a small range of minis. 

I will be very surprised if we do not see a new Ironjawz book this year. 

While it would be nice to get some new minis and new battletome for Seraphon and Slyvaneth they are both in an OK place in terms of their rules and minis. 

Fyreslayers could do with a more developed mini range with a choice between infantry and magmadroths. 

Ko definitely have the most broken book currently. They have an amazing aesthetic, fantastic fluff and by all accounts are one of the better selling range of minis in AoS. A new book and a couple of new battleline options would be amazing. 

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