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10 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

All depends on the points cost for the Troggoth, it's slow and not a monster but deals some serious damage (averages 12.5 wounds against 4+ armour).  If points cost is closer to 200 than 300, I think it'll see play.

Can't argue with the Killbow in the current meta, but still unless your playing against prime targets (15W+) it's damage output is similar 3 Boltboyz and it is less flexible. The thought of 4 Vs a Sons army is tasty though.

Killaboss on Great Gnashtoof is 200 points. The Killaboss is quiker, while the Breaka is very slow with better survival and more damage output. I would guess around 250 points...

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4 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

Interesting. I would not consider him above 200. He deals comparable damage to a unit of Grave Guard with great weapons (at 10 attacks) and fills a similar role, but those guys are only 140. But maybe there will be synergies in the book that make him worth it.

I'd put it at high 200s, maybe 300.

Take one as a suicide alpha strike and use it with this:
OrrukWarscrolls Sep09 SupaSneaky

Edited by Dolomedes
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3 minutes ago, Magnus The Blue said:

12 wounds, 4+ Save and regeneration: not sure how that is below average?

12 wounds is OK, but 4+ is low for monster heroes. He has regeneration, but he also needs to self damage in order to unlock his offensive potential, so that's a wash. I agree that this guy is below average defensively in for his unit type, though only a little.

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4 minutes ago, JanGret said:

Killaboss on Great Gnashtoof is 200 points. The Killaboss is quiker, while the Breaka is very slow with better survival and more damage output. I would guess around 250 points...

I'd say survival is comparable (if anything Killa boss is more survivable with 3+ save) and Killaboss has a great anti-battleshock buff.  So in my mind they should be similar points.

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9 minutes ago, Dolomedes said:

OrrukWarscrolls Sep09 SupaSneaky

This is what you use on the Breaka boss. Note it doesn't say you can't move and charge after setting up again. That's getting in turn one if you roll a 4 inch charge, and it's likely to clean out whatever it goes into. Pretty scary alpha strike.

This is a really good strategy to waste points. Killaboss has no staying power, even if you give him an Amulet of Destiny he will probably die the turn he charges or immediately afterwards.

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5 minutes ago, Dolomedes said:

I'd put it at high 200s, maybe 300.

Take one as a suicide alpha strike and use it with this:
OrrukWarscrolls Sep09 SupaSneaky

I don't know, really. Compare this guy to the Steam Tank Commander or something. When I look at the Mirebrute, I can't definitively say that he's unequivocally better, and the Steam Tank is only 230 points and not even really that good.

Of course, you can't always compare points across armies 1 to 1, but still.

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2 minutes ago, PJetski said:

This is a really good strategy to waste points. Killaboss has no staying power, even if you give him an Amulet of Destiny he will probably die the turn he charges or immediately afterwards.

For sure - it's a suicide Alpha Strike. Go for a low drop list and send him in to delete something. It could easily be a turn one 'Bring it down!' or 'Linebreaker'. Of course, you'd probably want to set it up so it doesn't just melt to 'Unleash hell'. Depending on the points cost, and your opponent's army, I think that's a powerful tool to have in a list.

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2 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

Considering the Mirebrute's Keywords, I am not sure if Games Workshop and I agree on the definition of 'Monster'...

Its only fair, all the gloomspite gitz throggoth also arent monsters. (although i still agree with u)

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9 minutes ago, Iksdee said:

Its only fair, all the gloomspite gitz throggoth also arent monsters. (although i still agree with u)

I mean that just furthers my point... troggoths are all pretty monstrous in my opinion. 

Plus it seems like the term monster is defined largely by human terms as I am pretty certain that a Grot or Skink would consider a lightening wreathed paladin with wings of light to be a monster. 

Edited by Neverchosen
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3 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

I mean that just furthers my point... troggoths are all pretty monstrous in my opinion. 

Plus it seems like the term monster is defined largely by human terms as I am pretty certain that a Grot or Skink would consider a lightening wreathed paladin with wings of light to be a monster. 

Also if i'm not mistaken they used to be monsters in fantasy. Dont really know what changed this.

Edited by Iksdee
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3 hours ago, Ratboy genius said:

The shrine wasn't very big and it hasn't popped up to my knowledge in the rest of the KB line, seems reasonable that it could have just been slapped on after

 

I strongly doubt "slapping" something unto an already finished model/sprue is a simple task. And if we are accusing GW of laziness (which, fair enough), then why would we expect them to go through the trouble of adding a Kruleboyz altar? Either way, it's clearly not enough of a smoking gun - after all, we are having this conversation :P. I think Gobsprakk manipulating Kragnos is very intriguing but of course that detail could have been added later... Who knows how any of this stuff gets made?

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6 hours ago, Black_Templar_Lad said:

That is a phenomenal idea mate. You definitely need to post your Mannaroth Kragnos if you do it!

Yeah i've planned it out a few times, Id need Kragnos, a Bloodthirster, a Stonehorn, the feet from a 40K squiggoth, and then I realize that in $600+ models and bits just to convert a model that I don't really like  much anyhow. At that point I may as well just go start a non-destruction army, probably an order faction so I can feel some of that GW love. Elves/Stormcast perhaps? 🤪

What, what am I saying? Leave my beloved greenskinz? What  foul trickery of the chaos gods is this! TIime to go order some kruelboyz behemoths and get a painting! 😁

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Gothmaug said:

Yeah i've planned it out a few times, Id need Kragnos, a Bloodthirster, a Stonehorn, the feet from a 40K squiggoth, and then I realize that in $600+ models and bits just to convert a model that I don't really like  much anyhow. At that point I may as well just go start a non-destruction army, probably an order faction so I can feel some of that GW love. Elves/Stormcast perhaps? 🤪

What, what am I saying? Leave my beloved greenskinz? What  foul trickery of the chaos gods is this! TIime to go order some kruelboyz behemoths and get a painting! 😁

 

 

Not sure how you feel about 3rd party models (or resin) but Drakon from creature caster seems like a decent enough proxy for the image you posted. Still might need some bits to make it a little closer to your desired effect. I would post a link but I don't really know the rules for 3rd party models on the forum. 

Edited by Neverchosen
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25 minutes ago, Neverchosen said:

Not sure how you feel about 3rd party models (or resin) but Drakon from creature caster seems like a decent enough proxy for the image you posted. Still might need some bits to make it a little closer to your desired effect. I would post a link but I don't really know the rules for 3rd party models on the forum. 

OOoh! he's perfect! With a head swap or a bit of sculpting he'd be spot on! I play locally, there's' not much in GW presence nearby where I am, so Proxy models are just fine. There's a pretty large conversion community around here. 

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7 minutes ago, Gothmaug said:

OOoh! he's perfect! With a head swap or a bit of sculpting he'd be spot on! I play locally, there's' not much in GW presence nearby where I am, so Proxy models are just fine. There's a pretty large conversion community around here. 

Glad to be of help and I have my eyes on the model for a Shaggoth/Be'lakor proxy just in case the rumour of a merged BOC and S2D army comes to fruition. But I am not a huge fan of Resin...

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I dont think the Troll boss has to be a good fast charger to be good. I can easily see him in a list with lots of Boltboyz ballistas, Grotz for screens and then the Troll Boss for a counterattack punch at anything that gets too close

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2 hours ago, Magnus The Blue said:

They do look good and I love the love the redeploy but Hexing Gotrek is going to be tough with 12" range and 7+ to cast.  Get the feeling our magic will be like Ogors: some great spells but hard to cast and not much to boost casting rolls.

Spell portal

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I can tell none of ya'll play Dankholds. With a 4+ save he's going to die in a heartbeat, and he only gets a decent amount of attacks by hurting himself--he'll last maybe a single round in combat and then fall over. He has no other support abilities. And from lots of troll experience, 4+ troggoth regen is garbo. His lowish bravery will also prevent him from Heroic Healing a lot of the time, so you can't count on that.

Now, maybe there are some amazing mount traits and/or artifacts that can help (certainly an amulet of destiny to soak up those mortals he's doing to himself), but the base warscroll isn't inspiring. He's basically a less supportive, bit more hitty (but self-destructive) troggboss. I might even argue the Troggboss is better due to all of his other myriad abilities (like squishing models, CA, etc); and nobody's banging down the doors about how good those guys are.

He's worth maybe 200 points. He certainly isn't as good as a unit of ironguts. But he'll be priced at 300 and nobody will use him or he'll be an expensive battleline unlocking tax...because...Destruction. Once again, points and further tome rules are everything.

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Not being a monster is strange, but people comparing him to units of 5+ models are missing the mark - single entities are never as points efficient in terms of output or wounds as squads. Also, 4+ saves are very reasonable in an edition where you can easily get him to 3+ ignoring rend -1. Not everything has to be as tanky as Archaon or Nagash.

 

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