The Rumour Thread

[Kramer]

7 hours ago, Fulkes said:

Yeah Dwarves are known for their booze, not their cooking.

Well that’s going in the book. 

[Lord Panther]

18 hours ago, Clan's Cynic said:

Looks like the one with the shield is a different, more skeletal model to the axe-wielder.

Looks like you're right. It goes Witch Hunter, this guy, Axe guy. 

 

I did some adjustments: 

This pic below looks like a skeleton hand to me.

[zilberfrid]

7 hours ago, FFJump said:

If that's a halfling, that'd be very interesting. Has there been any mentions of halflings in the lore for Age of Sigmar? Not only is that the first halfling model for AoS if that's the case, he'd also be the first Slaaneshi halfling model in both AoS and Warhammer Fantasy as far as I know. Only reason I thought he might be a duardin was because of that, but he definitely looks more like a halfling and a halfling would fit with the gluttony theme.

A new Warhammer Quest would be a good place to introduce them.

Favourite Warhammer quest hero list:

Female Kharadron and/or Fyreslayer

Halfling Vampire hunter

LuminethMage (or just a Lumineth Mage)

Kroxigor (or gryph hound, if we must have a Stormcast hero)

With nordic undead whalers and vampies as enemies. These have zombie orcs, dwarves, elves, lizardmen and halflings, with a few classy vampires and and undead walrus/giant lionfish/manatee/porpoise/eel/shark as bosses

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

10 hours ago, FFJump said:

This guy is interesting. First Slaaneshi Duardin model or first Slaaneshi (and AoS in general) halfling model? Can't tell if he has a beard or not.

The small guy with the archers is called a "Blissbarb Homunculus", which is a real word that refers to small humans (by literal translation) and artificially created people (historically). So this guy might not be a halfling, dwarf or anything we have previously seen.

[Baron Klatz]

19 hours ago, KingBrodd said:

Could even be like Celennar and be camel in all design with a foxes head, could look incredible!! 

This is my bet. Mortal Realms rule of thumb is 98% of animals are eldritch mix-and-matched critters unless undead(then the Ossiarchs solve that manually with bone chimera).

With how much spirit foxes are mentioned for the aelemental wind temple my thinking is fox hybrids to both play off of Hysh's geomantic deserts(probably why the Slaanesh have Persian & Arabian elements as enemies there) and to keep building the oriental aelven themes with kitsune foxes.

Shout-out to Gecktron for posting these images on discord and how I think they'll tie-in to being long-legged maned wolf-fox-llamas with the wind lumineth wearing appropriate fox helms as they glide through the deserts of the realms.*

*(which also fits a Ghur Excelsis confrontation build-up since it's  a lot of wastelands and mountains there. It's all coming together.)

Edit: ooh, a homunculus would explain the odd frame and lack of hair on the feet halflings have. Fits perfectly with the mutant & opulent pseudo-persian vibes too!

Edited January 2, 2021 by Baron Klatz

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

5 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

This is my bet. Mortal Realms rule of thumb is 98% of animals are eldritch mix-and-matched critters unless undead(then the Ossiarchs solve that manually with bone chimera).

With how much spirit foxes are mentioned for the aelemental wind temple my thinking is fox hybrids to both play off of Hysh's geomantic deserts(probably why the Slaanesh have Persian & Arabian elements as enemies there) and to keep building the oriental aelven themes with kitsune foxes.

Shout-out to Gecktron for posting these images on discord and how I think they'll tie-in to being long-legged maned wolf-fox-llamas with the wind lumineth wearing appropriate fox helms as they glide through the deserts of the realms.*

*(which also fits a Ghur Excelsis confrontation build-up since it's  a lot of wastelands and mountains there. It's all coming together.)

I was wondering if that's the paw of a "long legged riding beast", like in that piece of Lumineth fluff some people have quoted.

Interestingly, the Critters and Keys raven and rat are standing on ruins similar to the ones in this picture. Would be quite a twist if they were from Lumineth models.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Neil Arthur Hotep

[Enoby]

I reckon it's going to be a 'pure' version of the Mindstealer Sphiranx, which lore-wise come from Hysh.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Enoby

[Austin]

So, new models are great for sure.  BUT- does this Lumineth business not make people at all perturbed? 

All this is assuming the new models are in fact Lumineth.  Am I the only one who thinks that is a less than ideal business practice? 

If we all assume, and I think this has been taken as truth for a while, that models are made well in advance of release, why in the world weren't these models in the army book?  I thought that Slaanesh was a bit close, hard to  believe that the mortals weren't in development then, but if this pans out it will be a new level.  Although we have people on these forums who claim the Lumineth was a complete release, all you have to do is read the book to know it isn't, and this potential new release proves it.

It sure looks to  me like GW is trying to find the minimum sized release and squeeze money out of people with multiple book releases.  So you can be happy with new models, but I would rather GW doesn't try to nickel and dime us (hundred and thousand us it more like it haha).  Just a thought.  The answer of course is to print books with models they are still working on....and quit running scared from the Chapterhouse saga.

[Baron Klatz]

Depends how they handle it. Could be a new tome or they just put them in one of the Broken Realms books and White Dwarfs for their non-free rules that get added to a Lumineth tome update in the future(probably when all 4 temples are done).

[Charleston]

11 minutes ago, Austin said:

So, new models are great for sure.  BUT- does this Lumineth business not make people at all perturbed? 

All this is assuming the new models are in fact Lumineth.  Am I the only one who thinks that is a less than ideal business practice? 

If we all assume, and I think this has been taken as truth for a while, that models are made well in advance of release, why in the world weren't these models in the army book?  I thought that Slaanesh was a bit close, hard to  believe that the mortals weren't in development then, but if this pans out it will be a new level.  Although we have people on these forums who claim the Lumineth was a complete release, all you have to do is read the book to know it isn't, and this potential new release proves it.

It sure looks to  me like GW is trying to find the minimum sized release and squeeze money out of people with multiple book releases.  So you can be happy with new models, but I would rather GW doesn't try to nickel and dime us (hundred and thousand us it more like it haha).  Just a thought.  The answer of course is to print books with models they are still working on....and quit running scared from the Chapterhouse saga.

GW noticed that thay can milk the cash cow better when they force multiple book releases on each faction. Thus, releasing half factions and forcing players to buy two books to have full access is a logical consequence. Hedonites are the other approach: Release two waves with two battletomes. Later one has the advantage of less stuff to be carried around for the player. PA and Broken Realms are also just a way to lure people into buying rulebooks, which meanwhile loose value so fast that more and more people start using online resources, mostly "free" ones that are not provided by GW.

In general, GW is always experimenting on how to sell stuff in an efficient way. Thats what the company is for: Making money. It´s an important thing to keep in mind.  That´s btw also why new units are mostly stronger than older ones, to keep them attractive in sales. Also, as stated in the powercreep: GW creates rulewise frustration/imbalance on purpose. It´s something that defines 40k since ages already: Unit A is good, Unit B is trash. Both can even be sold in a single box. People build Unit A, then the next edition/faq/addon nerfs Unit A and makes Unit B incredibly good. People who are into competetive mindsets see Unit A now as worthless and buy the kit again to assemble as Unit B now, increasing sales...This does not only has to be right about internal balance of units within a faction, it can also be about factions. Many players who play sub-tier-factions know the temptation of buying into a new army that gameplaywise is more attractive... I should write a blog post about this actually.

Talking about experiments, another one that defined many AoS factions was keeping neccessary Battlelines in quite expensive boxes with inclusion in as few bundle boxes as possible. Witch Aelves and Kharadron Arkanaut Companies are an example, Lumineth are also quite dependable on wardens so far. Althrough bonereapers break the pattern here due to the heavy discount in the dual box during introduction.

[Austin]

12 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

Depends how they handle it. Could be a new tome or they just put them in one of the Broken Realms books and White Dwarfs for their non-free rules that get added to a Lumineth tome update in the future(probably when all 4 temples are done).

Broken Realm books are as expensive as codexes.... I guess my point there is that Broken Realms or something like that could be good for factions that haven't seen love for a while (my own IDK for example) and it seems legit.  But a Broken Realms soon in time to the (half baked) release of a faction is no better than a new army book.  MAYBE its a tiny  bit better because it likely has new lore versus the recycled army books.

[alghero81]

25 minutes ago, Austin said:

So, new models are great for sure.  BUT- does this Lumineth business not make people at all perturbed? 

All this is assuming the new models are in fact Lumineth.  Am I the only one who thinks that is a less than ideal business practice? 

If we all assume, and I think this has been taken as truth for a while, that models are made well in advance of release, why in the world weren't these models in the army book?  I thought that Slaanesh was a bit close, hard to  believe that the mortals weren't in development then, but if this pans out it will be a new level.  Although we have people on these forums who claim the Lumineth was a complete release, all you have to do is read the book to know it isn't, and this potential new release proves it.

It sure looks to  me like GW is trying to find the minimum sized release and squeeze money out of people with multiple book releases.  So you can be happy with new models, but I would rather GW doesn't try to nickel and dime us (hundred and thousand us it more like it haha).  Just a thought.  The answer of course is to print books with models they are still working on....and quit running scared from the Chapterhouse saga.

Well look at it on the other side, unless this causes a battletome spam race, the rules for new miniatures are available for free on GW website, new battalions, subfactions, etc can appear either in a campaign book or even cheaper in a White Dwarf. Both are available digitally. Sure you don’t have the “one place to rule them all” but if we get past this topic we then start seeing that armies can get updates faster than once every 10 years like they did in the past. If all armies would get a little bit but more frequently, then you would avoid the Big Bang of a massive release with all pros and contro. 
I personally prefer smaller releases, it’s also easier to spend little more frequently than justify a big expense from time to time, but in particular if this really becomes the new model, we could see new models for most armies every 2/3 years. Imagine Idoneth, Fyreslayers even Cities getting something so often instead of languishing... something more than Warcry/WU warbands, that even if amazing they are 99% of the case just proxies.

[alghero81]

9 minutes ago, Charleston said:

In general, GW is always experimenting on how to sell stuff in an efficient way. Thats what the company is for: Making money. It´s an important thing to keep in mind.  That´s btw also why new units are mostly stronger than older ones, to keep them attractive in sales.

That’s why Glaivewraith Stalkers despite potentially being the first Skaven undead they are just garbage with uninteresting lore. They could fix them easily with 2 wounds to make them elite, rend on charge, etc but why fixing an 8£ unit?

[Baron Klatz]

4 minutes ago, Austin said:

MAYBE its a tiny  bit better because it likely has new lore versus the recycled army books.

New lore, rules for multiple new factions, matched play updates and lots of new scenarios and battles for Matched, Narrative and Open play.

I count that as a lot better. How much these campaign books have jam-packed in them is why Wrath of the Everchosen was top of the best-sellers list all year long until Broken Realms took over.

9 minutes ago, alghero81 said:

I personally prefer smaller releases, it’s also easier to spend little more frequently than justify a big expense from time to time, but in particular if this really becomes the new model, we could see new models for most armies every 2/3 years.

Same. That so much rule-wise is free warscrolls and easy to get between digital and the warhammer-community showing some of the juicier traits makes it all the better, IMO.

[alghero81]

10 minutes ago, Austin said:

MAYBE its a tiny  bit better because it likely has new lore versus the recycled army books.

Consider the battletome was meant to be released in April so really it’s almost a year later, with a bit more time they could even fix what didn’t work in the battletome with these small expansions. I understand they are not for everyone but for me just for the lore they are auto-buy, the rules being just the cherry on the cake 

[Austin]

20 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

New lore, rules for multiple new factions, matched play updates and lots of new scenarios and battles for Matched, Narrative and Open play.

I count that as a lot better. How much these campaign books have jam-packed in them is why Wrath of the Everchosen was top of the best-sellers list all year long until Broken Realms took over.

Same. That so much rule-wise is free warscrolls and easy to get between digital and the warhammer-community showing some of the juicier traits makes it all the better, IMO.

I really liked Wrath of the Everchosen.  I am not against those types of books at all, the opposite in fact.  I am opposed to releasing half factions and charging twice for a rule book.

[Greybeard86]

13 minutes ago, Austin said:

I really liked Wrath of the Everchosen.  I am not against those types of books at all, the opposite in fact.  I am opposed to releasing half factions and charging twice for a rule book.

I really don't understand why they keep selling rule books that are constantly outdated. Sell LORE BOOKS, and make the associated rules free content that simply gets updated. Of course, I understand the business aspect, but who is actually keeping up with those books as opposed to finding pdfs online?

Lore books with expansions, as they introduce new content, seem like a better option to me from the consumer's standpoint.

[Baron Klatz]

That was basically the AoS strategy back in 2015. Tomes were just lore books with the Warscroll library that you could get for free regardless and the campaign books were more lore with a few battleplans thrown in.

Seeing how the popularity and success shot up when they put new rules and updates in those books the next year pretty much shows why that isn't happening anymore.  

30 minutes ago, Austin said:

I really liked Wrath of the Everchosen.  I am not against those types of books at all, the opposite in fact.  I am opposed to releasing half factions and charging twice for a rule book.

I can understand that but once again, it depends how they handle it.

Could be the Lumineth tome again with some few lore and unit add-ons (hopefully they'd completely revamp it with a new continent of lore and a bunch of tricked out new traits & spells if that happened), could be Broken Realms & White Dwarf which would go along swimmingly for the update.

We need to wait and see but a 1 year update release isn't likely unless this temple is huge instead of just a small sub-faction.

42 minutes ago, alghero81 said:

I understand they are not for everyone but for me just for the lore they are auto-buy, the rules being just the cherry on the cake 

Haha, this forum is torture on how few likes you can hand out.

Absolutely agreed.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Baron Klatz

[Greybeard86]

1 minute ago, Baron Klatz said:

That was basically the AoS strategy back in 2015. Tomes were just lore books with the Warscroll library that you could get for free regardless and the campaign books were more lore with a few battleplans thrown in.

Seeing how the popularity and success shot up when they put new rules and updates in those books the next year pretty much shows why that isn't happening.  

This, to me, points to the fact that the lore books were not good enough to merit buying. Paywalling the rules to make up for it doesn't seem to be the answer.

I mean, of course it results in more sales, but so would putting a wall around a well in the desert.

[Baron Klatz]

Oh the lore books were great and I loved the campaigns like Quest for Ghal Maraz. But pretty maps and new lore doesn't bring in the crowds like a competitive edge does.

Besides there's new lore books for that now. Soulbound.

Edit: Ooh, that does make me hope we get a new Core Book for AoS 3. The 2018 one was phenomenal. ❤️

Edited January 2, 2021 by Baron Klatz

[ArkanautDadmiral]

11 minutes ago, Greybeard86 said:

I really don't understand why they keep selling rule books that are constantly outdated. Sell LORE BOOKS, and make the associated rules free content that simply gets updated. Of course, I understand the business aspect, but who is actually keeping up with those books as opposed to finding pdfs online?

Lore books with expansions, as they introduce new content, seem like a better option to me from the consumer's standpoint.

I agree with this, I’d actually be more inclined to buy other factions lore books too if that was the focus.

[Sance]

I'm afraid this will increase the entry fee for new players at AoS.
You have to buy the battletome of your army + the appropriate broken realm book + the possible white dwarf magazine.

That's still a lot of paper and money just to have the rules to build your army.

For me the interest of AoS was the accessibility, the fact of having the warscrolls and the rules of the game for free on the internet.

What the heck, the Lumineth battletome came out not long ago. So yeah it's nice to expand the army, having more miniatures and choices is always cool. But hey, if they knew the Air Temple was coming out this year, they should have included it in the book.

I think they're shooting themselves in the foot by adding an extra ticket to the game, it makes the game less accessible and in the end it becomes like 40k

[ManlyMuppet88]

With all the excitement around the Christmas/New Year Hedonites previews I genuinely forgot about the  Myrmidesh and Sigvald. 

Not everything is totally to my liking but this is definitely the most exciting release GW has had in a while for me.

[Overread]

The problem with splitting lore and rules is that people buy hobby stuff on budget. 

 

Warmachine tried this tactic and very quickly wound up with such reduced sales of lore material that they've basically put it out of production for Warmachine. 

 

The "pro player" only wants rules and doesn't need lore because they've typically bought all the books for years and so have a good idea about the lore in general. For them new lore in the books might be a short story, a summary of the latest campaign (that GW will have marketed hard on their website) and a few snippets on new models appearing in the army for that edition. After that all they want or need are the rules, the rest is repeat. 

However if you listen only to that market segment what happens is your casual and new gamers end up picking up the rules for the game - because that's essential  - but not the lore. Because each time you think of the lore its a choice - lorebook or new models. And new models will often trump the lore book. The result is you end up with more and more generations of gamers with less connection to the games actual lore. 

 

This can be a problem because whilst lore isn't the be-all end-all it is one of the major draws to the game and one of the things many people get hooked on and return for later. 

 

 

It's just the same as how the codex/battletomes also have painted models and short guides on painting and how competitive events encourage/require you to use painted models. You don't need to do that for the pro who has a painted army already; but for newbies and those moving up all that enticement, encouragement and such is essential to ensuring that they do paint their models. 

 

Battletomes and Codex work fantastically as catch-all products. Lore, hobby, rules. The triad of components that hooks different segments of the market together. If you start to cut out bits of the books the prices might not go down - heck they'd likely go up on lore books as in theory they could be bigger. What does happen is you start to make more and more parts optional and separate.

 

 

 

Consider how few gamers read Black Library books regularly. Many might like lore, but when push comes to shove the models win and the lore is to the side. Some might read the odd book, but by and large its not a vast proportion of the gaming market that engages with them and BL books are all about the lore and stories of characters and races. Again we see that the big-rule-book - for all its impracticalities as being a rule book in games - works again as a fantastic artistic and lore resource for ensuring a base level understanding of the setting for the majority of gamers. 

 

 

 

Note I'm 100% all for more lore books and artwork books. I love them and hate that BL often has them printed in only short runs that rarely last beyond a week or two of pre-orders (if that). Mostly because they are never cheap and short notice high cost purchases are a nightmare to budget for. I'm very excited for the new Xenos book being published later this year for 40K and would love more similar books for AoS and 40K to appear. I just know that splitting up the core books ilke Battletomes isn't the way forward. It's because of those Battletomes that I want to dig further into the story and setting. 

[Fulkes]

On 1/2/2021 at 4:56 AM, Sance said:

I'm afraid this will increase the entry fee for new players at AoS.
You have to buy the battletome of your army + the appropriate broken realm book + the possible white dwarf magazine.

That's still a lot of paper and money just to have the rules to build your army.

For me the interest of AoS was the accessibility, the fact of having the warscrolls and the rules of the game for free on the internet.

What the heck, the Lumineth battletome came out not long ago. So yeah it's nice to expand the army, having more miniatures and choices is always cool. But hey, if they knew the Air Temple was coming out this year, they should have included it in the book.

I think they're shooting themselves in the foot by adding an extra ticket to the game, it makes the game less accessible and in the end it becomes like 40k

Let's not forget that most of AoS ended up seeing massive delays on when things where planned on being released and there is usually an 18 month (or more) lead time on every release to start with.

It's easy to look at Lumineth and say it should have been in the book on this end, but the gap between when stuff was finished is too big for that, and no new army is just going to release with 100% of every possible model in it's first book. Even GW's poster boy Primaris Marines have needed several years to flesh their range out.

Edited January 3, 2021 by Fulkes