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2 hours ago, Matrindur said:

Did they ever actually say The Old World is going to be a normal 28mm game?  Could it turn out to be something like Epic was for 40k?

The smaller scale would both make it need less sculpting work as it would be hard for Forgeworld to make as many new kits as you would need for all those old armies and I can't see them using too many old models again as they would want you to buy new stuff.

It would also make it way less expensive to get together full armies, I wasn't in the hobby when Fantasy was still around but as far as I know a reason it died was that it had a pretty high hurdle of entry in cost and number of models which a smaller scale would help to alleviate. 

Maybe not as small as Epic was but still smaller than 28mm?

If the Old World is in Epic scale then I would be interested.  AOS gives me what I need for 30mm? scale, both painting and playing.  If I could field a true army of hundreds of figures in small scale, however, that would offer a completely different play style and hobby experience.  I could even cope with a rank and file rules system if it was not overly complicated.  It's a long way off, though, so no need to worry about it at the moment.

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3 hours ago, Matrindur said:

Did they ever actually say The Old World is going to be a normal 28mm game?  Could it turn out to be something like Epic was for 40k?

The smaller scale would both make it need less sculpting work as it would be hard for Forgeworld to make as many new kits as you would need for all those old armies and I can't see them using too many old models again as they would want you to buy new stuff.

It would also make it way less expensive to get together full armies, I wasn't in the hobby when Fantasy was still around but as far as I know a reason it died was that it had a pretty high hurdle of entry in cost and number of models which a smaller scale would help to alleviate. 

Maybe not as small as Epic was but still smaller than 28mm?

It won't be Epic scale - they'd just have announced they were remaking Warmaster if that was the case.

CMON's A Song of Ice & Fire showed you can do a rank-and-file game at 30mm at a pretty low cost for a non-skirmish game - inevitably TOW will be more expensive by virtue of GW being GW, but it doesn't have to be as eyewateringly expensive as 8th WHFB was, nor should it.

Edited by Clan's Cynic
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I was assuming (correct me if I’m wrong) the Old World would essentially be them bringing all the old Warhammer Fantasy sculpts out of retirement and letting Forgeworld handle it all, as well as pulling any old factions from AoS like the Phoenix Guard etc. I know they are adding factions like Kislev but I can’t imagine that will be anywhere near the pace or scale at which AoS and 40k get releases. As for existing factions the easiest thing for them is just reprinting the old sculpts on square bases again and then periodically adding some new units or heroes now and again. 

Anyway it could be good news for Cities of Sigmar as they would almost definitely get a completely new range refresh if most of their current models get pulled into TOW! (Or GW just savagely deletes them from existince)

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I think it's going to be brand new kits at a larger scale purely to dissuade people with old WHFB collections from just bringing their stuff out of the closet, blowing off the dust and only buying the new rulebook - there won't be anything stopping you from actually doing that, but they'll want all the newblood and returnees to "this is the new scale, so buy this new stuff." 

Kind of like how loads of people complained about Primaris and then bought them anyway - because the bigger scale looked weird next to their old models and they knew going forward, every new thing was going to be matching it.

Edited by Clan's Cynic
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7 hours ago, Charleston said:

I´m afraid that the project is already doomed to frustration by the community from day one. People currently hype it and create expectations. There is no way GW will satisfy everyone. The more GW heats the hype train, the more frustration we will see day one. All could be stopped/prevented with a simple design manifesto, telling us what the heck we are actually about to expect

Agreed. For example, me!

If this isn't 6-10mm scale Epic armies in mass combat, but rather just a second 32mm scale game, I can't see getting in.

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1 hour ago, Clan's Cynic said:

It won't be Epic scale - they'd just have announced they were remaking Warmaster if that was the case.

It can be the most amazing scale ever (6mm) and not be the rules catastrophe of the worst GW game ever (Warmaster).

 

They are not linked.

 

Gimme Epic Warhammer!!!

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33 minutes ago, NotAWzrd said:

I was assuming (correct me if I’m wrong) the Old World would essentially be them bringing all the old Warhammer Fantasy sculpts out of retirement and letting Forgeworld handle it all, as well as pulling any old factions from AoS like the Phoenix Guard etc. I know they are adding factions like Kislev but I can’t imagine that will be anywhere near the pace or scale at which AoS and 40k get releases. As for existing factions the easiest thing for them is just reprinting the old sculpts on square bases again and then periodically adding some new units or heroes now and again. 

Anyway it could be good news for Cities of Sigmar as they would almost definitely get a completely new range refresh if most of their current models get pulled into TOW! (Or GW just savagely deletes them from existince)

I think this is what is going to happen. A mixture of old a new sculpts being sold at current prices. I believe they ll see if it can generate good profit and invest accordingly, after the initial push. We know they ll be getting Kislev, maybe some other CoS like units. 
 

if it dries out, easy to let it languish like  they did with 30k. I just hope they don’t kill it with bad management like they did with 30k. Also, death to resin.

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32 minutes ago, Clan's Cynic said:

I think it's going to be brand new kits at a larger scale purely to dissuade people with old WHFB collections from just bringing their stuff out of the closet, blowing off the dust and only buying the new rulebook - there won't be anything stopping you from actually doing that, but they'll want all the newblood and returnees to "this is the new scale, so buy this new stuff." 

Kind of like how loads of people complained about Primaris and then bought them anyway - because the bigger scale looked weird next to their old models and they knew going forward, every new thing was going to be matching it.

Hope you are wrong. Plenty of people seem happy to buy new sculpts of old thing to paint and bring variety to their armies. Towards the end of whfb they just weren’t releasing many sculpts, so not much to buy really. 

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Even assuming the scale will be compatible, the world is much different, many heroes are not even born then and some armies will look really different from the WHFB we know... 

And then we have no idea what’s the current state of the old moulds in case they actually want to keep supporting old models. But GW is a miniature company before being a Wargame system company so there’s no way they are going to invest time and energy in a system that can reuse most of miniatures from other games not bringing them fresh revenues. I expect any AOS or WHFB miniature compatible, if at all, to be a proxy at best.
One exception to this rule is Warcry, but it took 1.5 years to expand the game to almost every existing miniature, including metal and resin

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They did say at one of the Warhammer previews the same year Old World was announced that they'd be using square bases. It was during the Q&A though, not in one of  their community previews. And I can't recall if there was any other information divulged. Of course, that could be square bases but with round bases inside those squares or could indicate a 6mm game with square bases too. However, considering the old announcement said Old World would be to Age of Sigmar what Horus Heresy is to 40K, and its being handled by the FW team, I think it's going to be 28mm still.

Horus Heresy was up until 8th edition compatible with 40K. Even now you can still use HH models in 40K, just not the same ruleset and mostly counts-as for other units. HH stuck to 40K's 7th edition ruleset but with tweaks after 40K moved to 8th edition. That kind of comparison implies, like HH, it'll be the same scale but with its own miniatures and rules. I think if it was a smaller scale they would have just returned to Warmaster - or like Adeptus Titanicus - re-use the name Warmaster but with new rules and a slightly bigger scale.

Don't know if they're bringing back any old sculpts.  However, for armies like Skaven, Ogre Kingdoms, Wood Elves, Dark Elves, the Empire, Chaos Dwarfs, Vampire Counts, Warriors of Chaos, Beasts of Chaos, and Daemons of Chaos - their pre-AoS models are still around and kicking. I don't think its as a big an effort as people think to support Old World in addition to AoS and 40K. HH does somewhat rely on units from the 40K line in addition to the HH stuff. Half my own AoS armies are just models I was using for Warhammer fantasy up until it got destroyed. As for generating new sales, like HH, supplement it with new models for some armies, and then exclusive armies (Bretonnia, Kislev, Tomb Kings).

What worries me is that very HH comparison though. As HH does go through bigger periods of time for smaller updates recently. I'd be worried we have to wait a couple years even after its "released" before we start getting new models or rules for other armies. Hopefully first year isn't just Empire vs Empire before we throw just Kislev in a year later lol.

Edited by FFJump
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I hope the old world pleases people when it’s out, I’ve looked into it and I like old world lore but I personally can’t imagine playing it, I’m not too keen on resin and I like how interesting AOS is with races. 

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We don't even know if Old World is being run out of Forge World or GW proper yet right?

I agree with others that to not destroy expectations GW should release a high level design blueprint that answers the main questions:

1. Who is making the game?

2. What scale?

3. Rounds, squares, or a combo approach with movement trays?

4. Will any existing models be usable?

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9 hours ago, Charleston said:

I´m afraid that the project is already doomed to frustration by the community from day one. People currently hype it and create expectations. There is no way GW will satisfy everyone. The more GW heats the hype train, the more frustration we will see day one. All could be stopped/prevented with a simple design manifesto, telling us what the heck we are actually about to expect

With how vague they've been about the details, I'm wondering if even GW knows what's going to be released.

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1 hour ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

We don't even know if Old World is being run out of Forge World or GW proper yet right?

I agree with others that to not destroy expectations GW should release a high level design blueprint that answers the main questions:

1. Who is making the game?

2. What scale?

3. Rounds, squares, or a combo approach with movement trays?

4. Will any existing models be usable?

Yeah, I personally think that GW will be handling at least a large portion of this game in house based on the pre-release hype on warhammer community. I can personally see forge world getting involved for some of the more niche factions but the overall content of the game being produced by GW. But, I will totally admit that I am not an expert in the manner in which GW has handeled these games in the past e.g. 30K, Bloodbowl, Necromunda.

Edited by Neverchosen

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I just want to point out that Forgeworld operates out of the main GW factory and HQ in Nottingham. Which division its under is more of an internal staff setup than it is purely access to resources/machines for production. FW is already doing plastics with the 40K specialist games (Necromunda, Adepticus Titanicus, Aeronautica). 

 

As for scale GW have given us every reason to think its the same scale as Old World - from references that its akin to 30K for 40K (both same scale) through to using old bases on the marketing and the early preliminary concept sketches for Norsca which suggest the same scale (they are WAY too detailed for 6-15mm). GW has heavily suggested its back to square bases, which will also likely mean rank and file so yes movement trays will be back.

 

And people already swap over 40K and 30K models; its not as widespread because 30K is all resin and marketed by Forgeworld and whilst it got very popular its still a niche within a niche market. If (as everything suggests) Old World is a plastic game its market reach should be far greater. Of course it might be plastic and resin (reisn for characters - plastic for rank and file).

 

 

That said it is still very early days and GW isn't past concept art stages it seems. So everything and anything could change. 

I would draw your attention to this Sandra and Woo comic page which, whilst it relates to software,  I think captures things rather well. Remember we are still somewhere between stages 1 and 2!

2012-11-19-0430-software-engineering-now

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I’ve surprised myself by how uninterested I am in this project. I was a big fan of warhammer fantasy back in the day. I started playing from 3rd edition. I had 3 full army and about 1000 points or so of another 7 or 8 armies. I bought dozens of army books over the years and devoured the lore.  Now I don’t care. AoS is in a much better place as a game than the old game ever was. The lore is fresh and exciting while old world got rather stale over time. The army books from 6th to 8th edition were largely identical in terms of lore. The mechanics were fine but never massively exciting and balance was much worse than AoS at its worst. 

Maybe my feelings will all change when we see the minis, but the fact that a lot of them will be resin really puts me off.

I dont begrude this game existing. By the time it comes out we will be probably be in the third edition of AoS and I will continue to enjoy that. 

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Frankly, GW can do whatever it wants with the lore and models; I'm just excited by the prospect of a (somewhat) mainstream Rank and Flank wargame. I'm a big fan of KoW, but it's pain in the ass to get anyone in my area to play something that isn't a GW product.

For something a bit more on topic, I'm really not a fan of the current marketing for TOW. I get that they probably only announced it when they did to get on the Total War train and to ****** with KoW 3rd Ed, but everything so far has only confirmed that it takes place in... the Old World and that the map is still the same. I guess that's the consequence of announcing something when you only have a logo, but I wouldn't mind if they just waited to show stuff until they actually have something to show.

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I know we already have a thread for discussing OW but it's going on here too....

I will be mildly surprised if OW is day-one compatible with models people already own.  I do NOT expect this to be a game where grognards can blow the dust off their 20 year old armies and immediately start playing - what a catastrophic failure that would be, for people out to sell models!

Maybe - maybe - a model here or there could double up for something for the new game.  But whole units?  I wouldn't drop dead from surprise, but I'd be pretty surprised.  I'd bet against it.

Edited by amysrevenge
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2 hours ago, Nighthaunt Noob said:

We don't even know if Old World is being run out of Forge World or GW proper yet right?

I agree with others that to not destroy expectations GW should release a high level design blueprint that answers the main questions:

1. Who is making the game?

2. What scale?

3. Rounds, squares, or a combo approach with movement trays?

4. Will any existing models be usable?

They can't really give out that information 2-3 years before release because that's just telling other companies that they have 2-3 years to release their own version of a similar game and beat them to market.

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3 minutes ago, Rob Hawkins said:

They can't really give out that information 2-3 years before release because that's just telling other companies that they have 2-3 years to release their own version of a similar game and beat them to market.

Then don't say anything until you are much closer than that.

I am sure there are AoS armies that are 2-3 years out that we know nothing about, so why can't the same policy apply here?

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6 minutes ago, Kyriakin said:

Then don't say anything until you are much closer than that.

I am sure there are AoS armies that are 2-3 years out that we know nothing about, so why can't the same policy apply here?

Well, they haven't said anything about the game.  The announcements have simply been "the Old World is a game setting that exists," which amounts to nothing other than to get people hyped(?) for a potential game that it's really impossible to have any expectations for.  (Only 2 more years to go before we find out what it is!)  :D

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Ill admit im already sick of the marketing for Old World, they just pop up every 6 months or so to over-promise stuff. Ive kept an old dwarf army on squares and ive been pretty lazy moving the skaven over but its super unlikely ill buy new armies i cant use in AoS too.

That said, a proper epic scaled Warhammer game, (Warmaster was good but it never felt like Warhammer) would DEFINITELY catch my attention, i mean you wouldnt even need to change the rules much from 8th and could run some awesomely apocalyptic battles. Better yet you could field the core of several armies with epic style sprues at a very reasonable price, Hell, just look at Warlord games acw stuff they just announced but give them GW production values... *drool* 

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4 hours ago, Chikout said:

but the fact that a lot of them will be resin really puts me

You say fact. But as far as I know that hasn’t been confirmed. so not a fact but speculation. 
 

but yeah if that turns into reality it would be such a step back. Like the went, lets bring back the old world. I know then also bring back the old production ways 😂

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3 hours ago, Rob Hawkins said:

Well, they haven't said anything about the game.  The announcements have simply been "the Old World is a game setting that exists," which amounts to nothing other than to get people hyped(?) for a potential game that it's really impossible to have any expectations for.  (Only 2 more years to go before we find out what it is!)  :D

This is how I feel.  What is there even to be hyped about at this point?  Maps that I already have in my old army books?  I mean they are shiny and newer versions...but thats what they are showing me after months?  Ok sure great I am not mad about it, but I don't really care either.

I will never be convinced that the square bases regiment thing is why Warhammer failed, or what people really miss.  It failed because the percentage composition system made armies ridiculously expensive, and people miss the amazing setting.  I am not sure what this rework is doing, but it would be unfortunate if it were a lot of people trying really hard for no reason and overthinking what needs to happen.

Make amazing Warhammer Fantasy models.

Give me army books set in the Old World.

Use the AoS rules system.

I would say Profit.....but its more like issue your stores bags to collect the money that will come in.

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4 hours ago, Chikout said:

I’ve surprised myself by how uninterested I am in this project. I was a big fan of warhammer fantasy back in the day. I started playing from 3rd edition. I had 3 full army and about 1000 points or so of another 7 or 8 armies. I bought dozens of army books over the years and devoured the lore.  Now I don’t care. AoS is in a much better place as a game than the old game ever was. The lore is fresh and exciting while old world got rather stale over time. The army books from 6th to 8th edition were largely identical in terms of lore. The mechanics were fine but never massively exciting and balance was much worse than AoS at its worst. 

This last update did nothing to me, but it's a game that I'm really interested!! I don't need to chose AoS nor Old World, I can play both 

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