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I think its hard to judge popularity on a side game, but I think it is a good way to test out new concepts and market them in a more visual way. Ossiarchs, for example, were a very big surprise release from GW; if they'd had an underworld team it might have set the ground for them a bit more*. That said it also seems haphazard - eg the Dark Oath team clearly have all the same design asthetics as the Warcry teams and yet GW didn't put a Dark Oath into Warcry. Then again they might have been trying squash people getting the idea that Dark Oath were getting their own army which was around in teh early days of AoS. 

 

*I'm guessing GW felt the ground was set with the bone constructs already in the Legions of Nagash, though story and marketing wise nothing really said "Ossiarchs are coming" until they came

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2 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

I think some of the Underworlds miniatures were to let their sculptors experiment with ideas too.  If one of those warbands were to be super popular, I could imagine those ideas being expanded on for a larger range within AoS - we're talking at least 3 years before we see anything be released though.

We know GW on occasion sits on new miniatures for quite a while too.  The Knight of Shrouds that came out for the Malign Portents campaign was actually sculpted after the the Nighthaunt range had been done, but he came out quite a few months before we even got a whisper of the 2nd edition box set.  The Imperial Knight was rumoured to have sat in a warehouse for 18 months before it was released (the date on the sprue backed this up too).

if I recall correctly the underworlds miniatures started as alternative easy to build minis for existing ranges (shadespire season looks like that)  and they ended building the game on top of that.

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Maybe it is just me, but seeing the huge amount of warbands for this and that smaller game, with amazing sculpts and somoe terrible AoS overlap rules, I can't help but be frustrated that some more of all that effort is not being spent on AoS. So many factions are screaming for new sculpts for old as dirt finecast. Entire new battletomes released with nothing new at all, like Orruks, not 1 single new model for the entire Orruk battletome update? 45 new warbands with 5-10 unique sculpts in each... like what...

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4 hours ago, Gotz said:

if I recall correctly the underworlds miniatures started as alternative easy to build minis for existing ranges (shadespire season looks like that)  and they ended building the game on top of that.

What I was told when I met some of the rules designers a few years back is that those shadespire warbands started out as "concept models". Essentially they were part of the development process for the armies, but weren't originally produced with any particular game in mind. I suspect that they were potentially part of their experimentations with easy to build models, which of course started to see release around that time.

I have no particular insight into GW's design process, but generally the process for making any new product involves a lot of back and forth, where concept artists will submit lots of possible designs and ideas, and then will iterate on those until something gets approved. In a lot of fields where the product is a 3d thing, concept or "study" models are just as important as concept drawings, as they can get the idea across much more effectively in many cases. So it wouldn't surprise me if there are a lot of sculpts that get made, and sit around at GW, never actually seeing the light of day, even if the range they were for gets picked up, and very similar models eventually hit the shelves.

The way I heard it, the rules designers ended up with some of those study models sitting on their desk, and came up with a game to play with them, which ultimately became underworlds.

So they were never intended to be specifically useful in AoS, in the way that the Warcry bands were. Rather they were examples of what models for AoS could and should look like, when ended up being nice little alternate sculpts, and an opportunity to produce a different sort of game and fill another market niche.

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34 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

image.jpeg.315e5dba8d32166a2adf58f3a553efcf.jpeg
approx 730€ in that Frame xD

Thank the horned rat for being a skaven player.

at that note, why not join us-us?!

we have warpstone cookies😜

Edited by Skreech Verminking
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9 hours ago, RuneBrush said:

I think some of the Underworlds miniatures were to let their sculptors experiment with ideas too.  If one of those warbands were to be super popular, I could imagine those ideas being expanded on for a larger range within AoS - we're talking at least 3 years before we see anything be released though.

The problem on popularity of side games is that it’s possible that the warband in itself is likeable but the side game rules are terrible and no one uses it... even more considering Kurnothi are actually part of the starter set, stats would be really biased. 
WU and a bit Warcry are mostly fodder for conversion projects or for alternative sculpts. The beastclaw warband has the best frost sabre available without conversion and even the Chaos Warcry warbands could easily become much better looking Chaos Marauders...

I hope they continue exploring new concepts in these side games rather than inflating AoS with new smaller armies

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2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

image.jpeg.315e5dba8d32166a2adf58f3a553efcf.jpeg
approx 730€ in that Frame xD

Yeah...  I am already planning on going slightly over budget to get the Lumineth army I want with almost everything being slightly more than I was expecting.  The only way I can get back under budget is if the Stone Guard happen to be $35 U.S.  I don't see that happening though.

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6 hours ago, Saturmorn Carvilli said:

Yeah...  I am already planning on going slightly over budget to get the Lumineth army I want with almost everything being slightly more than I was expecting.  The only way I can get back under budget is if the Stone Guard happen to be $35 U.S.  I don't see that happening though.

To be fair though - you likely won't be buying an army like this for a start. It's almost 2,500 points, and likely if you buy three Mountain Spirits you probably won't buy Teclis, and the other way round. At least not at the same time lol. 

But yeah the prices are pretty daunting. 😰I can see why they are trying to show Teclis in his best light all week on Warhammer Community - but if they really want to sell him, they wasted their FAQ on a "we looked at his price tag, and decided that Teclis starts with a 2+ Save, and Protection Teclis is a 4 up, not let's make it a 3 up Ward!"  

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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/09/03/artefacts-of-the-lumineth/

 

Blade of Leaping Gold

Available to Scinari Cathallars, the Blade of Leaping Gold turns these supporting Heroes into respectable close combat characters – giving them the potential to slay a rival Hero or deal a killing blow on a monster! Perhaps your opponent will be more careful about taking them on next time. Long time Warhammer players may recognise this relic – and its effect – from several editions of Warhammer Fantasy Battles, where it was a magic item crafted by the High Elves of Ulthuan. Looks like either it made it to the Mortal Realms intact, or Teclis got nostalgic…

And here was me thinking it was taken by The Red Duke on the crusades as a spoil of war?!

Edited by El Syf

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2/3 shown artefacts are bonkers too strong. 3 times as strong as normal artefacts to be exact.

Yet it is pretty hard to put into context without knowing what their heroes do.

Edited by JackStreicher
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15 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

2/3 shown artefacts are bonkers too strong. 3 times as strong as normal artefacts to be exact.

Yet it is pretty hard to put into context without knowing what their heroes do.

.....

You do realize that LRL have 2 heroes that can take artifacts....and both are mages with AS 5+ and 5 wounds.

You will never see the blade of leaping gold on one unless we finally get a combat hero

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20 minutes ago, Chumphammer said:

.....

You do realize that LRL have 2 heroes that can take artifacts....and both are mages with AS 5+ and 5 wounds.

You will never see the blade of leaping gold on one unless we finally get a combat hero

agree, however by including these artifacts they have kind of painted themselves into a corner, since they will (should) have to balance future LRL heroes taking into account the possibility of taking these artifacts

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42 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

agree, however by including these artifacts they have kind of painted themselves into a corner, since they will (should) have to balance future LRL heroes taking into account the possibility of taking these artifacts

There are a grand total of 6 generic artifacts in the LRL battletome, and they are locked to specific heroes. Only the Cathcaller is able to take the blade of leaping gold, and realistically never will.

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20 minutes ago, madmac said:

There are a grand total of 6 generic artifacts in the LRL battletome, and they are locked to specific heroes. Only the Cathcaller is able to take the blade of leaping gold, and realistically never will.

So I’m guessing that those cow thingies aren’t heroes???

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23 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

So I’m guessing that those cow thingies aren’t heroes???

Good question

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27 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

So I’m guessing that those cow thingies aren’t heroes???

ye ons is named, the other is a monster but not hero

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On 9/2/2020 at 2:56 PM, Scurvydog said:

Maybe it is just me, but seeing the huge amount of warbands for this and that smaller game, with amazing sculpts and somoe terrible AoS overlap rules, I can't help but be frustrated that some more of all that effort is not being spent on AoS. So many factions are screaming for new sculpts for old as dirt finecast. Entire new battletomes released with nothing new at all, like Orruks, not 1 single new model for the entire Orruk battletome update? 45 new warbands with 5-10 unique sculpts in each... like what...

Yeah sorry about that... I keep buying some of those because they’re amazing models that I can convert and lovingly paint even if I don’t play the army 😅

kinda encouraging GW.. 

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4 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

2/3 shown artefacts are bonkers too strong. 3 times as strong as normal artefacts to be exact.

Yet it is pretty hard to put into context without knowing what their heroes do.

With only two support heroes that can actually use artefaxts I’m not that worried yet. 
If Tyrion models get added and can use them as well, it might become a bit problematic then. 

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3 hours ago, madmac said:

There are a grand total of 6 generic artifacts in the LRL battletome, and they are locked to specific heroes. Only the Cathcaller is able to take the blade of leaping gold, and realistically never will.

Does that not make the situation even more strange?

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Speaking of weird artifacts, isn't Phoenix stone just... unfun? Most times you take it, it will do absolutely nothing, triggering only on a 6 in quite rare occurence of hero dying near user. We're talking 3 rolls per game max. But sometimes it does work, and you just get a brand new Teclis, worth 1/3 of your entire army point value. Neither of those outcomes seems fun to play either with or against, it's in this weird state where it's usually too weak but in a rare occurrence absurdly strong... It's way too random to see much use in competitive play i think (unless the rest of their artifacts are just terrible and you have a spare slot, i guess), but sometimes, once every few friendly games it takes part with, it will be 'i win' button. Only no one can control if the button will be pressed.

Say what you will about sword adding attack to a wizard, at least you can predict what it does.

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13 minutes ago, mojojojo101 said:

Does that not make the situation even more strange?

I got a feeling that GW cut production off early for LRL or had to push them out sooner. Their release seem very incomplete if you compare them to OBR or IDK. Their lack of generic heroes especially melee combat ones really make a big gap in their roster (like a Leige Kavalos or soulreaper equivalent)

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