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DoK also technically have the least model kits in AoS. 

They "sort of" get away with it because most of them are modern kits and they have a lot of duel kits even if most are just weapon and head swaps. Their Cauldron kit is also very cheap when you consider the number of leaders you get from a single kit; but overall they are not a cheap army to collect. They look great though! I really hope that with a Warcry band and Underworld band we might even see a few more kits (even spells/terrain) for them at some stage "soon". 

Of course they aren't alone, but when you then look at Flesheaters, who have similar problems but are much cheaper to collect because its pretty much all in the getting started set, its a funny comparison. 

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On 8/7/2020 at 2:04 PM, JPjr said:

 

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I'm from a large family and the oldest of six children, who all have 1-2 middle names. By the time my mum had my youngest brother Sean she's lost interest and allowed us to give him a middle name. We named him Kevin, after the gerbil 😃

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Do you know when the White Dwarf subscriptors receive it? I can't wait to look at the Jaws.

 

Thanks!

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Ggom said:

I would say cost is a factor, as well as painting eyes on the girls. Every. Damn. One. I say this as someone who has painted 20 pairs of eyes and boy I can tell you that tiny models with tinier eyes is a bad combo. If they were an elite army, I'd be down, but alas.

Also, if they put 20 aelves in a box I would expect a price hike. Knowing GW, it's more likely that everything else will get priced up to DoK levels instead of vice versa. "They're just spoiled by the ease of entry for all the other armies, we should make things more even for pricing."

DOK absolutely should be an elite army. It makes no sense that they just run across the board in massive units and ****** you to death like vicious ants. Doesn't speak much of their athletic warrior prowess.

That's P R I C K btw. Quite funny that the filter makes something benign look incredibly rude. Good job, idiot 

Edited by Nos
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8 hours ago, Overread said:

DoK also technically have the least model kits in AoS. 

They "sort of" get away with it because most of them are modern kits and they have a lot of duel kits even if most are just weapon and head swaps. Their Cauldron kit is also very cheap when you consider the number of leaders you get from a single kit; but overall they are not a cheap army to collect. They look great though! I really hope that with a Warcry band and Underworld band we might even see a few more kits (even spells/terrain) for them at some stage "soon". 

Of course they aren't alone, but when you then look at Flesheaters, who have similar problems but are much cheaper to collect because its pretty much all in the getting started set, its a funny comparison. 

I am looking at getting into DOK soon and they may be the most expensive army I have ever looked into. A huge thing is that you can find deals for most armies online. I usually pay 25-50% off retail for most armies I collect and DOK I cannot find anywhere. They are just such a niche faction and I rarely see them on the tables. This makes me want to run them even more and I absolutely love the aesthetic though. I have never been into any of the skirmish games and still don't plan on playing them but I will be picking up the DOK warband just because of how cool it is. DOK are just so metal 💀. The only thing I would be really happy for release wise is tokens for all the prayers! 

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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/10/warband-focus-morgoks-krushas/

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Leading the Krushas is the biggest and baddest orruk in the warband, Morgok himself. As you’ll see with each of the fighters, they gain Waaagh! counters each time they attack. Not only do these help to Inspire the fighters, but you can also trade them for some nifty bonuses. Morgok can spend his counters to push each friendly fighter two hexes – and let us tell you, the last thing an enemy warband wants to see is these three brutes all getting closer.

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Armed with the brutal gore-basha, ’Ardskull isn’t the most subtle fighter in Warhammer Underworlds. Point him at a target and watch him hit it until it’s dead. Being able to power up his damage output with his Waaagh! counters is incredibly useful, especially if he finds himself surrounded.*

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Rounding out the warband is Thugg. While he doesn’t have the outright damage output of his fellow orruks, he’s just as hardy and can spend his Waaagh! counters to make his attacks more likely to hit.**

Play Style

Morgrok’s Krushas are a purely aggro style warband*** – they want to get stuck in as early and as often as possible. Each of the fighters puts out a decent amount of damage, even before they’re Inspired, so they’ll easily be able to deal with weaker enemies and start stacking up the glory. What they lack in numbers, they make up for with having 5 Wounds apiece, meaning that opponents will have to focus on each one to take them down. So, attack, grab those Waaagh! counters, then keep attacking – Beastgrave will soon be yours.

Morgok’s Krusha’s are available to pre-order from Saturday, and we’ll be taking a closer look at some of their warband-specific cards later in the week. If you’ve yet to take your first steps into Warhammer Underworlds, then the Beastgrave boxed set is a great place to start.

* ’Ardskull’s Frenzied Whirl attack hits every adjacent enemy fighter, making it extremely dangerous to gang up on him.
** If he doesn’t catch you with his first smasha, he’ll krump you with his other one.
*** This means that they are aggressive and seek to score most of their glory points through destroying enemy fighters rather than by claiming objectives.

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I'm not too concerned with whether DOK should be an elite army or use huge blocks of infantry.

I'm far more concerned that an army of naked knife psychos is so durable. That doesn't make any sense to me both in terms of aesthetics and gameplay. They really messed up when writing the rules for DOK.

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I can't comment on DoKs durability makeing sense from a gamplay perspective, but as far as lore and/or aesthetics go I don't mind it.

For me durability is not limited to wearing heavy armor. In case of the DoK I always imagined it being a combination of high agility to dodge enemy attacks as well as a witch brew and faith induced berserker state, which lets them ignore wounds and fight on. There might of course be better ways to express this gameplay wise. 

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1 hour ago, Nos said:

DOK absolutely should be an elite army. It makes no sense that they just run across the board in massive units and ****** you to death like vicious ants. Doesn't speak much of their athletic warrior prowess.

That's P R I C K btw. Quite funny that the filter makes something benign look incredibly rude. Good job, idiot 

Haha OT but related to cuss filters, I play a mobile game with a team chat, and told the group "I usually play while watching **** and **** off" because for some reason the chat filtered out "Netflix" and "goofing".

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2 hours ago, PJetski said:

I'm not too concerned with whether DOK should be an elite army or use huge blocks of infantry.

I'm far more concerned that an army of naked knife psychos is so durable. That doesn't make any sense to me both in terms of aesthetics and gameplay. They really messed up when writing the rules for DOK.

Are you also very concerned with all the craziness that is Idoneth Deepkin and Fyreslayers? This is a fantasy game with little plastic toys and not very realistic.  Most of this doesn't make a lot of sense but it's still really fun 😄.

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To be honest given how many half-naked psychopath factions there in AoS, durability may actually be more closely associated with "strip and run screaming at the foe" than "wear full plate and form a shieldwall".

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Not really a rumour, but I just notice that some battletome did not get theire FaQ translated.

I think it may have been a mistake done during upload of the FaQ, but after checking other language, it appear the both Cities of Sigmar and Orruk Warclans dont have any translation for last FaQ (07/20/2020).

Is it possible it to be a first sign of limited support of this factions?

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17 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

To be honest given how many half-naked psychopath factions there in AoS, durability may actually be more closely associated with "strip and run screaming at the foe" than "wear full plate and form a shieldwall".

Fyreslayers and Saurus Coalesced as well as DOK would suggest the fewer clothes you wear in the Mortal Realms the better. 

Meanwhile SC in their gargantuan suits of platemail are dropping like flies 

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3 hours ago, foxicious said:

I can't comment on DoKs durability makeing sense from a gamplay perspective, but as far as lore and/or aesthetics go I don't mind it.

For me durability is not limited to wearing heavy armor. In case of the DoK I always imagined it being a combination of high agility to dodge enemy attacks as well as a witch brew and faith induced berserker state, which lets them ignore wounds and fight on. There might of course be better ways to express this gameplay wise. 

I agree. I don't mind DOK having good durability but it's not being expressed properly in terms of rules; stacking save bonuses just isn't the right way to display their agility and faith-based shielding.

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1 hour ago, RedMax said:

Not really a rumour, but I just notice that some battletome did not get theire FaQ translated.

I think it may have been a mistake done during upload of the FaQ, but after checking other language, it appear the both Cities of Sigmar and Orruk Warclans dont have any translation for last FaQ (07/20/2020).

Is it possible it to be a first sign of limited support of this factions?

I know there is a lot of general anxiety on this forum over Cities of Sigmar at the moment. I personally think that this anxiety is largely unfounded, but I do imagine that Cities will probably look quite different in a few editions time. However, I feel like the recent push for Gordrakk's invasion of Azyr signifies that Orruk Warclans will continue to get support... therefore I have to assume that this is just an oversight.

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2 hours ago, Nos said:

Fyreslayers and Saurus Coalesced as well as DOK would suggest the fewer clothes you wear in the Mortal Realms the better. 

Meanwhile SC in their gargantuan suits of platemail are dropping like flies 

 

2 hours ago, sandlemad said:

To be honest given how many half-naked psychopath factions there in AoS, durability may actually be more closely associated with "strip and run screaming at the foe" than "wear full plate and form a shieldwall".

Or be like the Sons of Behemat and wear a loin cloth!!

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6 hours ago, NkfPanda said:

I am looking at getting into DOK soon and they may be the most expensive army I have ever looked into. A huge thing is that you can find deals for most armies online. I usually pay 25-50% off retail for most armies I collect and DOK I cannot find anywhere. They are just such a niche faction and I rarely see them on the tables. This makes me want to run them even more and I absolutely love the aesthetic though. I have never been into any of the skirmish games and still don't plan on playing them but I will be picking up the DOK warband just because of how cool it is. DOK are just so metal 💀. The only thing I would be really happy for release wise is tokens for all the prayers! 

Well they are basically an elite unit (witches) made into a whole army. So too much of their kit was formerly elite or is brand new. I figure most who have got into AoS with them are still holding onto them, hence the lack of a secondhand market. Plus I suspect what there was was quickly bought up when they launched and were overpowered for a while. 

 

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I bought a load of classic metal, out of production witch elves a few years back. It was actually the cheaper option than getting the same number at he current price. They're a really fun army to play though, and I can't wait to get the warband.

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3 hours ago, RedMax said:

Not really a rumour, but I just notice that some battletome did not get theire FaQ translated.

I think it may have been a mistake done during upload of the FaQ, but after checking other language, it appear the both Cities of Sigmar and Orruk Warclans dont have any translation for last FaQ (07/20/2020).

Is it possible it to be a first sign of limited support of this factions?

I very much doubt it as GW is notoriously sloppy with translations. Ironjawz is also mostly original AOS sculpts.

______

On another topic, notch me down as another person who really does not care about DOK durability. They are an almost entirely foot based army (the cav and fliers are very niche and not capable as a main attack/defense unit). It would be very difficult for the army to be balanced in a world where they don't have the durability buffs. Turn 2-3 units with paper defense are just not good in AOS as it's too easy to cripple them with shooting, charges, or any unit that messes up turn priority.

Even if we stick entirely to real world reasoning and ignore supernatural tropes like magic tattoos and shields of faith it's entirely plausible for lightly armored units to be very tough.

The classical sarissa phalanx is an excellent example. They used relatively small shields and modest armor. Greek hoplites also used little armor and somewhat larger shields. Granted their spears were a large part of their defensive  prowess (which DoK don't have), but the point that gigantic shields and thick metal plates are the only way to survival on the battlefield is incorrect.

If any of you have trained in classical martial arts (either HEMA or a Japanese koryu style for example) you'll know how defensively capable swords, daggers and small shields are. If you're just sitting there and taking square blows head on you're doing it wrong. A major part of defense is getting into a distance where your weapons are maximally effective and your opponent's weapons are ineffective (see also: legionary vs. phalanx). A gigantic sword or maul is much less scary super close in because even if they hit you you are likely to suffer far less damage because the weapon is moving much more slowly closer to the wielder's hands and the weighting is also disadvantageous to the wielder at that range. If you are trying to intercept an attack with your weapon or shield (or even armor), you much prefer to cause a glance than to just absorb the blow. You can parry a much larger weapon with a smaller one this way, and bucklers/daggers are great as they are very light and can be placed at the correct angle very quickly.

Perhaps DoK are extremely adept at these techniques -- using their speed and agility to maintain ideal distancing, disrupt the timing of enemy attacks and achieve very precise parries and deflections.

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1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:

I very much doubt it as GW is notoriously sloppy with translations. Ironjawz is also mostly original AOS sculpts.

______

On another topic, notch me down as another person who really does not care about DOK durability. They are an almost entirely foot based army (the cav and fliers are very niche and not capable as a main attack/defense unit). It would be very difficult for the army to be balanced in a world where they don't have the durability buffs. Turn 2-3 units with paper defense are just not good in AOS as it's too easy to cripple them with shooting, charges, or any unit that messes up turn priority.

Even if we stick entirely to real world reasoning and ignore supernatural tropes like magic tattoos and shields of faith it's entirely plausible for lightly armored units to be very tough.

The classical sarissa phalanx is an excellent example. They used relatively small shields and modest armor. Greek hoplites also used little armor and somewhat larger shields. Granted their spears were a large part of their defensive  prowess (which DoK don't have), but the point that gigantic shields and thick metal plates are the only way to survival on the battlefield is incorrect.

If any of you have trained in classical martial arts (either HEMA or a Japanese koryu style for example) you'll know how defensively capable swords, daggers and small shields are. If you're just sitting there and taking square blows head on you're doing it wrong. A major part of defense is getting into a distance where your weapons are maximally effective and your opponent's weapons are ineffective (see also: legionary vs. phalanx). A gigantic sword or maul is much less scary super close in because even if they hit you you are likely to suffer far less damage because the weapon is moving much more slowly closer to the wielder's hands and the weighting is also disadvantageous to the wielder at that range. If you are trying to intercept an attack with your weapon or shield (or even armor), you much prefer to cause a glance than to just absorb the blow. You can parry a much larger weapon with a smaller one this way, and bucklers/daggers are great as they are very light and can be placed at the correct angle very quickly.

Perhaps DoK are extremely adept at these techniques -- using their speed and agility to maintain ideal distancing, disrupt the timing of enemy attacks and achieve very precise parries and deflections.

Cool insight, appreciate this. Off topic, but I imagine its much harder to train a person to fight this way (relying on reflexes, timing and dexterity) than to train them to have the strength to wield a larger shield and fight in formation. Its probably appropriate that the “army” armies of mortals would be reliant on these “more easily learned” tactic, but elves, being elves, can master the alternative approaches to defence at the rank and file level.

Nevertheless, my objections are purely on the basis of cost and painting effort.  

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6 hours ago, badnewsbeers said:

Which armies are the next to be abandoned do we think?

None?

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7 hours ago, badnewsbeers said:

Which armies are the next to be abandoned do we think?

Would agree with @KingBrodd here and say none.  Any armies/units with rules/warscrolls can always be played in an Open or Narrative play environment without any problems too.  Matched Play tends to need armies/units to have a presence in the Pitched Battle Profiles part of the current Generals Handbook.

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8 hours ago, badnewsbeers said:

Which armies are the next to be abandoned do we think?

After the shitshtorm GW experienced after deleting TK and Bretonnia I'd say none. They will think think twice before risking another group of players to loudly proclaime their dissatisfaction. Even if GW has no plans for expanding f.e. Cities of Sigmar they will keep them and update the rules once in a while.

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13 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

After the shitshtorm GW experienced after deleting TK and Bretonnia I'd say none. They will think think twice before risking another group of players to loudly proclaime their dissatisfaction. 

Will they though?

I'm a bigbonkerswowie TK fan. Thousands upon thousands of points in the last army of them I painted, not to mention the several TK armies I had painted before that one. To say they were my favorite part of the Games  Workshop Hobby (tm) is downplaying it massively.

 

I was livid when they went away. Seeing the silly BS rules for Settra (if your knee touches the floor, you lose) felt like an insult aimed straight at my heart and my wallet. I stopped buying WD for the first time since issue 102. I stopped playing and painting entirely.  I was out.

 

But.

 

Here I am. Happy as a pig in poo. Buying army after army in sizes of at least 5000 points each. Getting every Warcry, Blood Bowl, and Underworlds model - sometimes in multiples up to four (I'm looking at you, snotling team, when you come out). Enjoying Kill Team and 40K (3 sets of Indomitus and I have no intention of doing a marine army). And so on.  Heck, I own stock and will add more to my holdings if they ever dip under $100/share again.

 

At this point, I really don't know what they could do to drive people away short of going to each player's house and taking their models. Removing a faction would be out of the question? Ha! Not even remotely true.

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